California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Thesp]

Just a heads-up - I will likely have difficulty posting tomorrow, as my sister-in-law will be giving birth - I'll be an uncle again.

Still want LmL to swing.

[Tamuz]

Right soo I need to do my shite with the voting and all. But yeah not much really resulted of those last posts between where I had read to and where I posted, or even the couple posts beyond it. Basically the most significant things in my oppinion where the mod posting that a huge amount of people are getting replaced, which both concerns and offsets me. Regardless 1 thing I need to say:

Tamuz, your post was going along well until it went bang at the end. Did your brain pop?

What do you mean? Does this mean you agree with most of my post, or all of it but the end. And what are you calling the bang.
And my brain is just peachy.

Anyways:

[vote: Foolinc]

, [Cubsfan] [PWS, Talitha, MoS, Adele], [Almost everyone else], [no lynch], [me].

[foolinc]

I'm on post 256.

Foolinc:
- Acts helpful, really isn't all all, any one of us could go on wikipedia or some related site and get a list like that and, again, avoid talking about people in the games' actions

So my post where I gave my opinions on every player in the game wasn't helpful at all? Even when it gave you the bullet below?

-Says scruff is " mostly scummy" but Cubsfan who basically just defends skruffs accoring to him is "neutral"

Actually I put down netrual for now, which is quite different than just saying he was netural. It's hard to tell whether Cubs was trying to make sure scum didn't metagame their way to an early mislynch or he was using metagame to either buddy up to an innocent or save partner scum at the stage of the post.

- 217 WTF?
.

What's so hard to get. Mgm asked what an abbreviation and I answered it since I was on.

[Dragon Phoenix]

Obligatory twentyfive plus word post to satisfy the requirements. I will post once more on Thursday morning before our weekend starts. With jeep gone (good luck in real life), I might switch to his successor, but I'll give him/her a chance first.

To Skruffs: yes, there might be a second mafia family. That is not unheard of in a 20 player game. I would even bet either two families or one family and a SK.

[Tamuz]

Mind you foolinc these words were written as I've read so some of it may be out of date, but I kept them just to maintain progressive thought, which is something replacements often don't have.

But I find you oh so scummy because you seem to have said nothing and you are very lurkery.

My 217, WTF comment comes from you saying nothing for a large chunk of posts and then coming in and answering a question mostly anyone could answer but you said nothing else. I think you "Sarnath'd" someone, but their post gave the answer AND content where you felt your activity in this game was fine being limited to such empty posts.

My first - was about your first post, which is has been mention and I feel even more strongly that you were just making it look like you were being proactive and helpful, but at the same time avoiding saying anything dangerous or anything that could link you to other people.

Could ya explain better how neutral for now is different then neutral. If you think he is neutral.... for now, you still think he is NEUTRAL at that point in time, yes? One just has a clause giving you more leeway in easily gliding away from your POV. The other doesn't give that leeway (although it is fair to mention that it doesn't box you into the POV). I just find it very strange that many on the Skruff is scumwagon think SOMETHING about Cubsfan, but you on the other hand plop him as a neutral with nothing to say about him, whereas you do have a developed oppinion on Skruff.

Oh and your timing is also very interesting that I come on here and attack, and vote you and poof you appear the next post despite your sporadic appearances earlier.

[VitaminR]

Just got off a long flight, so I'm not sure what's going on at all. I'll read through the thread once I have more time and energy.

I'll try to get something coherent up soon.

[Mr. Grey]

The rules are very clear regarding participation. I even went out of my way to draw attention to them during signups. And given the Oman replacement, I feel it would have been especially unfair to give MoS a pass.

That said, given the number of replacements we already have, I may be forced to loosen the rules a bit; if this happens, it will not happen until Day 2.

Vote count coming in an hour or two.

[Talitha]

- Tally makes him happy? She hasn't said anything of importance or value

Um, I haven't?

Tally:
- Cubsfan #1 option, huh? You can't just tease us by saying "I find these people scummy" then not telling us why, unless you are trying to establish some worth to the town to keep you. But I'd rather your worth as far as the ideas in your mind be known rather than promised.
-Blows steam, says nothing about why she supposes the guilt that she does suppose

Gosh, I really don't like your tone. As long as I'm within the rules I actually

can

play however I choose to. But did you actually read my posts? I coulda sworn I stated my reasons when I moved Cubs to #1. Skimmer.

I think you are the one blowing steam, and you're trying to draw me into an argument that in no way helpful to the town.

I think you deserve to be added to the voting list, but I'll read over the rest of your contribution first.

[Talitha]

Because if I am still alive later in the game and re-reading over day 1 trying to find the scum, I will be looking at the votes first, the reasons second.

In italics-Why? Wouldn't you think it more significant they didn't have a reason, or do you mean the later on condercent voting things.

Short answer: No.
But sure... lack of reason accompanying vote could be significant for several different reasons, but not

more

significant than the vote itself. (I don't really want to dwell too much longer on arguments that might be better fitted for the 'Mafia Discussion' forum )

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

Skruffs: 5 (Dragon Phoenix, foolinc, jeep, LoudmouthLee, VitaminR)
jeep: 3 (Cogito Ergo Sum, Mgm, IH/Oman)
Cubsfan4ever: 2 (PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha)
LoudmouthLee: 2 (Adele, Thesp)
Dragon Phoenix: 1 (Skruffs)
foolinc: 1 (Tamuz/Thestatusquo)
logicticus: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
IH/Oman: 1 (logicticus)
PlaysWithSquirrels: 1 (xyzzy)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (PlaysWithSquirrels)
xyzzy: 1 (Zindaras)

Current Condorcet Winner:

None. Current Smith Set: Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, Cubsfan4ever, foolinc, jeep, logicticus, LoudmouthLee, Mastermind of Sin, Mgm, IH/Oman, PlaysWithSquirrels, PookyTheMagicalBear, Skruffs, Talitha, Thesp, Tamuz/Thestatusquo, VitaminR, xyzzy, Zindaras

Notes:

Adele did not unvote LoudmouthLee, so her vote remains there, while her list does not have LML first. It is not required by the rules that you vote for the first player on your list.

Skruffs' list has a couple of issues; see below for how I treated it.

To view the complete table of pairwise results, put this information in this form.

Note that while jeep is listed as the Condorcet winner, he has one pair-wise tie (with Skruffs), and therefore would not be lynched under this game's rules.

[LoudmouthLee]

@Thesp:

You seem very intent on having me swing. For the purpose of "defending myself", I will do my best to answer all of your points in the order that you gave them.

Clarification on a "bah" post to look more townie? I really, really don't see it - this feels contrived/opposite of sensical.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but someone who wants clarification on a "Bah" post is someone who wants the town to ultimately think that they will be nightkilled, and will be "in need" of a Bah! Post. I don't know if that makes sense, but to me, anyone who asks for clarification of rules in thread (IE: Mod, I need clarification of my role) is generally scum. I have used this scumtell in scumchat numerous times, and I feel it's pertinent.

MoS insists on making his first votes random and insignificant.

I wanted to know WHY he felt the need to go and make such a extravagant to-do over it. Why not just "random vote- blah blah blah"? Instead, I feel that MoS "wanted us to definately know" his vote was random. It looked forced. Which, of course, was something you accuse me of later.

I'm not sure this analogy can hold, and this "anger" feels contrived as well.

If someone misattributed you to being "misrepresentful", you would be ALL over them too. Stop playing the holier than thou card. It's been discussed in this thread that, in turn, I wasn't misrepresenting anyone. Skruff's inability, at that time, to see that made me lose my temper. I am, after all, LoudmouthLee.

I've seen your manufactured anger before, it resonates with what I'm seeing right now. If you take serious umbrage at someone doubting your veracity in a game where players are actively trying to discern which players are being deceptive, perhaps this game is not for you, or stepping back for a deep breath would be worthwhile.

High horse sir? Step down.

I hate being attacked with faulty logic. I fight to the bitter end when i feel that a case is being manufactured with no basis to the truth. I am choosing to try to play the calm, cool and collected card right now rather than the guns-a-blazing typical LmL style. I would also appreciate you not talking down to me. I'm no newbie, Thesp.

What is C&H? Do you think your anger here stems from Skruffs? (I'm really not seeing the connection, aside from the fact you were voting for Skruffs.)

So, you were told what C&H was. Did you look at it? Did you see the correlations? Did you see the LmL vs. Skruffs stuff there? Or did you promptly ignore it?

Still very happy with my vote on LmL.

As much as I enjoy the cubs bandwagon, I'd rather see LmL swing.

Still want LmL to swing.

Why? Are you afraid I'm going to catch you? Are you afraid that I'm going to call you on:

a) Making a case on me that really isn't a case at all?
b) Not adding anything to the conversation besides a throwback to IS?
or is it...
c) You just don't have anything better to do?

You're BETTER than this, Thesp.

FoS: Thesp

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod

[IH]

Foolinc needs to post.

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but someone who wants clarification on a "Bah" post is someone who wants the town to ultimately think that they will be nightkilled, and will be "in need" of a Bah! Post. I don't know if that makes sense, but to me, anyone who asks for clarification of rules in thread (IE: Mod, I need clarification of my role) is generally scum. I have used this scumtell in scumchat numerous times, and I feel it's pertinent.

False. You automatically disregard a lynch or a vig kill.

FoS:LML

Horrible scumtell.

I wanted to know WHY he felt the need to go and make such a extravagant to-do over it. Why not just "random vote- blah blah blah"? Instead, I feel that MoS "wanted us to definately know" his vote was random. It looked forced. Which, of course, was something you accuse me of later.

It's already been proved it took all of five minutes to do so. You could use the same argument for anyone who wants to use dice tags.

This is not relevant at all to early game.

If someone misattributed you to being "misrepresentful", you would be ALL over them too. Stop playing the holier than thou card. It's been discussed in this thread that, in turn, I wasn't misrepresenting anyone. Skruff's inability, at that time, to see that made me lose my temper. I am, after all, LoudmouthLee.

So did you understand what Skruffs meant? If you understood what he meant, then why are you attacking him for a pedantic of language? This is what bothered me. You most definitely ignored the arguments, and shouted "THat wasn't a misrepresentation!" and I'm pretty sure you understood the points from him.

Why? Are you afraid I'm going to catch you? Are you afraid that I'm going to call you on:

a) Making a case on me that really isn't a case at all?
b) Not adding anything to the conversation besides a throwback to IS?
or is it...
c) You just don't have anything better to do?

You're BETTER than this, Thesp.

FoS: Thesp

That didn't look like anything that wasn't a standard Thesp statement, after he's already asked questions. He's announced it before and continues to make his stance clear.
While this will be something of note, I'm unsure how much merit it has on day 1, and any questions you ask of the above and conclusions you make will be awfully inconclusive until we know one of your alignments.

unvote, vote:LML

[Zindaras]

But, that aside...

Call me a conspiracy theorist, but someone who wants clarification on a "Bah" post is someone who wants the town to ultimately think that they will be nightkilled, and will be "in need" of a Bah! Post. I don't know if that makes sense, but to me, anyone who asks for clarification of rules in thread (IE: Mod, I need clarification of my role) is generally scum. I have used this scumtell in scumchat numerous times, and I feel it's pertinent.

So town cannot possibly ask if they're allowed Bah posts? That's quite narrow-minded. I simply have, regardless of alignment, a pretty high chance of dying over the course of the game.

You're arguing a complete null tell.

I hate being attacked with faulty logic. I fight to the bitter end when i feel that a case is being manufactured with no basis to the truth. I am choosing to try to play the calm, cool and collected card right now rather than the guns-a-blazing typical LmL style. I would also appreciate you not talking down to me. I'm no newbie, Thesp.

You're acting like you're at Lynch-1, Lee. I think you're being overaggressive here.

Replacement discussion removed and taken to PM. - Mod

[foolinc]

Mind you foolinc these words were written as I've read so some of it may be out of date, but I kept them just to maintain progressive thought, which is something replacements often don't have.

Wouldn't have been better to quote your points then, so there is no possible way someone could confuse it for a summary?

My 217, WTF comment comes from you saying nothing for a large chunk of posts and then coming in and answering a question mostly anyone could answer but you said nothing else. I think you "Sarnath'd" someone, but their post gave the answer AND content where you felt your activity in this game was fine being limited to such empty posts.

I think you are grasping at straws. It would be one thing if Mgm said anything more than "PWS?" on post 216. Another thing that would have made your arguement more convicing would be if Mgm said anything about wanting Zindaras to explain why he wanted to add PWS to "that little list" (post 215), but He stated in post 218 "You're probably right. Thanks." and nothing more. It would seem that there was no more content to be added.

My first - was about your first post, which is has been mention and I feel even more strongly that you were just making it look like you were being proactive and helpful, but at the same time avoiding saying anything dangerous or anything that could link you to other people.

My first post was posted an hour after the game started. The only other thing I could have done is make a basely vote for someone who mathimatically probably part of the town. My post wasn't faked helpfulness. I genuinely thought it could be helpful. It hasn't been so far, but still might be in the future.

Could ya explain better how neutral for now is different then neutral. If you think he is neutral.... for now, you still think he is NEUTRAL at that point in time, yes? One just has a clause giving you more leeway in easily gliding away from your POV. The other doesn't give that leeway (although it is fair to mention that it doesn't box you into the POV). I just find it very strange that many on the Skruff is scumwagon think SOMETHING about Cubsfan, but you on the other hand plop him as a neutral with nothing to say about him, whereas you do have a developed oppinion on Skruff.

Who said neutral isn't a developed opinion? At that moment I read Cubs as neutral for now because, as I already said, I saw that his post could be read as both pro-town and anti-town and at the moment the possibility it being so was equal, putting him at neutral. The "for now" meant just that, for now, because his "as of now" netural statement could easily become scummy or pro-town by how he responded to that people questioning him on the posts.

Oh and your timing is also very interesting that I come on here and attack, and vote you and poof you appear the next post despite your sporadic appearances earlier.

Interesting timing? You posted at 6:16pm and I posted at 2:06am right before I went to bed. That's almost 8 hours inbetween posts, so I'm not sure what you mean by that.

I will be posting up another analysis and a Condorcet vote later today (EST).

[Tamuz]

Tally I just isolated your posts and did a search on cubs.

The first time his name showed up not on a vote was your 9th post, which means you mentioned him 3 times in votes before you even said anything about him. At this point you take about 2 sentences to talk about cubs' relationship with LML but you really didn't state distinctly why you think cubs is scummy. I'm pretty damn sure I'm not skimming, it took me a hell of a long time to read this whole thread.

Cubs just pops up as your top option without any talk on him, then later with only 2 sentences on him he is upgraded. This is curious to me.

[Mgm]

I'm gonna move LML up in my list in light of recent posts.

Mod: Will votes on replaced players count when you use their old names?

Unvote;
Vote: Jeep

, Logicticus, xyzzy, LoudmouthLee, VitaminR, [Oman/IH, Thesp, Talitha, PookyTheMagicalBear, Mastermind of Sin, foolinc, Cubsfan4ever,
Skruffs, Thestatusquo], [Adele, Dragon Phoenix, Cogito Ergo Sum, Zindaras, PlaysWithSquirrels], No lynch, Mgm

[LoudmouthLee]

You're acting like you're at Lynch-1, Lee. I think you're being overaggressive here.

Have you ever known me to be NOT overaggressive?

[Tamuz]

Yo peeps, Shea isn't in this game anymore.

I feel ignored, stop listing him in your votes instead of my or I'll construe it as a scumtell (despite it really being a nulltell)

[Talitha]

A 2 SENTENCE REASON IS PERFECTLY FINE FOR DAY 1.

Either explain why you think my behaviour is SCUMMY or let's move on, please Tamuz.

[Tamuz]

He was listed as your number 2 suspect 3 times before you even said those two sentences...

[Talitha]

*yawn*

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

I've requested replacement. I am so sorry, you guys. School + internship + rush week for my fraternity has just made this impossible.

[Talitha]

Sorry to hear that PWS

Tamuz: "3 times?" I count once. Is that a mistake or a misrepresentation?

[Mr. Grey]

Battle Mage replaces jeep.

[Battle Mage]

hey guys, i'm here. Dont worry-tomorrow i will reread, solve this entire game, and we can all go to my brother's house for tea.