The War to End All Freaktowns: GAME OVER

[Mastermind of Sin]

Original Roll String: 1d26

1 26-Sided Dice: (21) = 21

FoS: Kinetic

Stop failing at your dice roll random vote.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Aegor

[Mastermind of Sin]

Voting yourself is not fail. In fact, I think I have probably self-voted nearly 50% of the time when dice-roll voting. It's quite exhilerating.

[Mastermind of Sin]

lol, very well, but I don't see the point in a random self vote

What is the point in making a "random" vote, if you aren't willing to have yourself be randomly selected? It's no longer a random vote if you take people out of the equation.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote, Vote: Mariyta

Now this is a wagon I can get behind.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Mari is full of crap. Lynch her.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unlike Flameaxe, I'm actually serious. I think Mari is exhibiting scum-like actions from the get-go, and it's something we need to follow up on.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote, Vote: Ksc0pe

All prostrate themselves before the royalty that is Ibby!

[Mastermind of Sin]

So, does anyone have any theory on how the items work, or is it posted somewhere and I'm just being lazy? I mean, I know that you can pick up, drop, or keep items, and then you can use them, but is there anything else?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think we should claim what items we have. I don't know what being a mayor does, but I don't think that the sucm should become mayors. Yea, I know that there are plenty of arguments to be made for not claiming our items, so go ahead and make them. Just don't expect me to respond or argue against them, because I've thought of them already. I just think that things would become a lot more fun and interesting if we claimed our items, and I'm sure something could would come out of it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think you're getting most of it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Although if the scum kill someone, we can try and pick up the items before the scum get them, since we already know what that person had.

[Mastermind of Sin]

We should wait to see if there is any more dissent.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Indeed they would know who is dying, but they don't have the opportunity to pick up the items before we do, as far as I'm aware. In addition, we'll know exactly what items the scum are looking for based on which items disappear and aren't publicly claimed. Even if you don't need an item, you should try to grab items from the dead person to keep the scum from getting them. Just make sure you leave one space free to grab an item you actually need in case it appears. Otherwise, grab as much as you can. If we are completely public with who has what items, we'll know exactly who grabs what items from the dead people. If someone suddenly becomes a mayor after someone dies, we'll know they are probably scum. The scum has two choices:

a) claim all their items and try to pretend like they are protown people who were trying to beat the scum to the items
b) don't claim to have picked up the items, in which case I have a trap that will pwn them, but I shouldn't reveal it now

The scum will have a hard time making progress with the items and killing the people who have items they want without giving themselves away.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm in favor of doing a popcorn-style claim after the scummy people start.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think we should just claim what items we have right now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

ooh-Popcorn style claim. I believe MoS suggested that in Mafia 61. sounds fun!

That was merely because it didn't really matter at that point. This time, I think small things can be garnered from doing it this way.

[Mastermind of Sin]

We should not say what items we need to collect, because nothing is gained by that and it only helps the scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I agree with YL. The fact that KScope phrased it that way he did made me think he was scum who didn't know how the items worked, when he should've been claiming he had at least one item.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Not claiming your items only makes it easier for the scum to manipulate the items in the game so that they benefit.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Not claiming your items only makes it easier for the scum to manipulate the items in the game so that they benefit.[/quote]I think it's more likely it's the other way around, really.[quote]Also, vote: KScope, since I think he's bluffing and trying to rectify the way he screwed up.[/quote]Screwed up where? By not claiming items? I think it's more likely that scum just makes up items, so I don't see the use of it, really.[/quote]

They won't get very far. Anyone who fucks with the claims is going to get a nasty surprise.

[Mastermind of Sin]

LML, try reading the thread. You say I've been vocal about the issue, so you shouldn't have to ask my opinion of it, because it's already been documented. However, I'll be nice and quote some stuff for you, since you're clearly too lazy to look for it yourself.

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]I think we should claim what items we have. I don't know what being a mayor does, but I don't think that the sucm should become mayors. Yea, I know that there are plenty of arguments to be made for not claiming our items, so go ahead and make them. Just don't expect me to respond or argue against them, because I've thought of them already. I just think that things would become a lot more fun and interesting if we claimed our items, and I'm sure something could would come out of it.[/quote]

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Although if the scum kill someone, we can try and pick up the items before the scum get them, since we already know what that person had.[/quote]

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Indeed they would know who is dying, but they don't have the opportunity to pick up the items before we do, as far as I'm aware. In addition, we'll know exactly what items the scum are looking for based on which items disappear and aren't publicly claimed. Even if you don't need an item, you should try to grab items from the dead person to keep the scum from getting them. Just make sure you leave one space free to grab an item you actually need in case it appears. Otherwise, grab as much as you can. If we are completely public with who has what items, we'll know exactly who grabs what items from the dead people. If someone suddenly becomes a mayor after someone dies, we'll know they are probably scum. The scum has two choices:

a) claim all their items and try to pretend like they are protown people who were trying to beat the scum to the items
b) don't claim to have picked up the items, in which case I have a trap that will pwn them, but I shouldn't reveal it now

The scum will have a hard time making progress with the items and killing the people who have items they want without giving themselves away.[/quote]

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]We should not say what items we need to collect, because nothing is gained by that and it only helps the scum.[/quote]

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Not claiming your items only makes it easier for the scum to manipulate the items in the game so that they benefit.[/quote]

[quote="Mastermind of Sin"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Not claiming your items only makes it easier for the scum to manipulate the items in the game so that they benefit.[/quote]I think it's more likely it's the other way around, really.[quote]Also, vote: KScope, since I think he's bluffing and trying to rectify the way he screwed up.[/quote]Screwed up where? By not claiming items? I think it's more likely that scum just makes up items, so I don't see the use of it, really.[/quote]

They won't get very far. Anyone who fucks with the claims is going to get a nasty surprise.[/quote]

[Mastermind of Sin]

Soupfly, you *do* realize that Mariyta claimed first, right? You still need to pick someone.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I dunno. I think this game has been reviewed good enough to not let it get broken by an itemclaim, but if people are dying for it.

I'm holding a Snoop Dogg CD and a unfermented Bear Bear[/quote]

Bullshit. Die suck scum die. Try to be more obvious next time you make shit up, kthnx. That was horrible.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Uh huh. Right. I'll explain why you're scum when we're finished outing the rest of the mafia. Anyone who explained it now would be retarded, since we can catch more than one scum in this trap.

[Mastermind of Sin]

*shrug* You just don't know what I've got up my sleeve.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote

Do *not* lynch Kscope until we have finished claiming items. He is clearly voting himself in an attempt to cause confusion and hasten the inevitable lynch on himself. I will not let the scum get away with not claiming. Kinetic, I understand your issues, but this really is going to be better for the game. We've already caught one scum as a result of my pushing this item claim, it can't be *that* bad...

[Mastermind of Sin]

claiming what items you currently hold each day is what I forsee, but we can decide that. For sure, though, the town players need to grab as many items as possible from the people who die (the mass claim will let us know which items were his), so that the scum can't get them. The rest of the items should also be grabbed, but not as important, since the scum can't control it in the first place.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Ksc0pe

Seems good enough for me. Let's finish 'im off.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Plenty of people know the "why" of how you are scum. The other people just trust those people, I suppose.

Ibby, please claim who you gave the item to. It's very important.

Unvote

He should be at 11/14 votes to lynch right now. Try not to hammer until we hear from Ibby.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Err, actually, nvm. We don't need to hear from Ibby. I want to know, before we lynch, if anyone else besides Ibby gave someone an item, and who they gave that item to. It's not really important to claim what item you gave them, though. This must be done before we lynch.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I did not give anyone an item last night.

1. Aegor (replacing inHimshallibe)
2. Aimee
3. Albert B. Rampage
4. Battle Mage
5. Blight
6. Flameaxe
7. FlyingFoxBat
8. Fritzler
10. IH
11. JDodge
13. Kilroy8675309
14. Kinetic
15. LoudmouthLee
19. mole
20. rolandofthewhite
21. soupfly
22. SuperMarioSunshine
23. tautology
24. the silent speaker
25. xyzzy
26. YagamiLight

These people have yet to claim whether or not they gave someone an item.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So do you want me to claim who or not?

Not really necessary. Other information you gave has confirmed that your information is not the information I seek. I don't see what can be gained by you claiming it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

If you know what I am talking about, then you should explain yourself now so that we don't lynch you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What about it? It's not inherently scummy to have not dropped or picked up anything. What about your claim doesn't add up, and how are you going to explain the discrepancy?

[Mastermind of Sin]

*shrug* I just wanted to give him a chance to be town, but he's obviously not.

[Mastermind of Sin]

There is no point explaining what you did wrong until after the item claim is over. However, it looks like a lot of people are content to lurk through the rest of the day instead of helping out the claim. I would prefer to finish the item claim today so that we can explain what Ksc0pe did wrong.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well, we'll have to wait to see what other people say about continuing or stopping the item claim. As it is, I still have that other piece of information that needs to be gotten before we go to night. Please do not hammer until everyone has confirmed whether or not they gave someone an item last night, and who they gave it to.

[Mastermind of Sin]

right, I figured as much. That's how it was with me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ksc0pe should claim. Flameaxe, don't claim your item. Thanks for confirming that you didn't send anything.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Were you able to use an item last night?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Please ask if you could've used any of your items last night.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Jdodge, did you give anyone an item last night?

[Mastermind of Sin]

YagamiLight, did you give anyone an item last night?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Not yet.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm waiting for the rest of the claims on whether or not they gave someone an item

[Mastermind of Sin]

1. Aegor (replacing inHimshallibe)
2. Aimee
3. Albert B. Rampage
7. FlyingFoxBat
8. Fritzler
14. Kinetic
15. LoudmouthLee
19. mole
20. rolandofthewhite
21. soupfly
22. SuperMarioSunshine
23. tautology
24. the silent speaker
25. xyzzy

Waiting on these people to confirm that they have an item or not. Since they haven't posted in quite some time now, it might behoove the mod to

prod

all of these people

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sorry, I meant "gave an item" not "have an item". I need people to confirm whether or not they gave someone an item last night.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]And no, I couldn't use the item, apparantly.[/quote]

Sucks to be you, then. You're definitely scum. That was your last possible way to be protown.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]And no, I couldn't use the item, apparantly.[/quote]

*the* item? What about the other item?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh ok, just checking.

[Mastermind of Sin]

*shrug*

If you could use one of those items, you had a chance at being protown.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Also, people being annoyed at BM is not a good reason to overlook Ksc0pe's discrepancies. Just because BM is annoying you doesn't change Ksc0pe's alignment, nor does it change what he's done.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Can someone make a neat list of what item claims we have so far? Include items currently holding, items picked up and dropped, and whether or not they gave someone an item (only Ibby) so far.

[Mastermind of Sin]

YagamiLight, you do realize that Everyone, including scum, occupies a store that produces items, right? I'm sure Ksc0pe is telling the truth about his bear bear item. That doesn't mean he is protown.

[Mastermind of Sin]

errr, what? Nobody could use items I believe MoS....

BM said that also I believe....

Night Phase Rule #2. Anyone who was given an item could have used it last night.

[Mastermind of Sin]

YagamiLight, do you have information that proves that buildings were not assigned randomly?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I understand that. I wanted to clarify that your assumption was completely baseless, so that I could ignore and go on with this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

People who haven't claimed what they did with their items last night:

1. Aegor (replacing inHimshallibe) - 2 posts
3. Albert B. Rampage - 11 posts, all 1-liners
7. FlyingFoxBat - 1 post
8. Fritzler - 3 posts
19. mole - 2 posts
20. rolandofthewhite - 2 posts
22. SuperMarioSunshine - 4 posts
23. tautology - 2 posts
24. the silent speaker - 2 posts, one good summary/analysis
25. xyzzy - 3 posts

Please prod Aegor, FlyingFoxBat, Fritzler, mole, rolandofthewhite, SuperMarioSunshine, tautology, the silent speaker, and xyzzy.

They are holding up the game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ok. This is getting out of hand. Everyone is getting confused, we need some order in here. Ibaesha, pick someone to start. I want people to claim what items you have right now. Don't tell me if you picked up or dropped any items. Just say what items you have.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Err, nvm. What was I thinking. Please tell us if you did pick up or drop any items. That was dumb of me to say.

Here's what we need in a claim:

Current Items:

blah1
blah2

Items dropped:

blah3
blah4

Items picked up:

blah5
blah6

[Mastermind of Sin]

sure. That's fine. let's just get this over with. Anyone else who hasn't claimed their items should claim them, because a few people aren't on that list.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Actually, now that Mariyta mentioned it, Kscope did claim Fye.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I'm Kaith, the Wine Maker. I deal in Wine and run Fye.

[quote="Battle Scum"]is this your pathetic attempt to make it look like we are distancing? lol[/quote]There's no need to help you to suicide, really. You're quite good at doing that yourself usually.[/quote]

[Mastermind of Sin]

you realize I already quoted that, right?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Umm, FYE is a music store guys. Might be where he got the CD from... and if he's the winemaker... he might have MADE the other item he has... which throws my main theory on his scum out the window...

Unvote

YagamiLight said that his information states that bear bear can only come from the Winery itself, so the Winemaker could not have made that particular item.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ibby should claim who she gave it to after they claim their items.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Can someone go through and update the list of item claims? That way we can see who has yet to claim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Umm, FYE is a music store guys. Might be where he got the CD from... and if he's the winemaker... he might have MADE the other item he has... which throws my main theory on his scum out the window...

Unvote

YagamiLight said that his information states that bear bear can only come from the Winery itself, so the Winemaker could not have made that particular item.

This will probably look pretty scummy, but I can't let my mistake go unfixed, my pm actually does say Wine maker and not winery, I just went back and checked.

Wow. Can people please know what their own role says at least?

Unvote

This is retarded.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: Fritzler

Yay pressure!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ibby giving the item was better than dropping it. Dropping items seemed like a bad idea to me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Nope, people just decided they wanted to finish the claim before stringing him up by his toes.

That was before. This is now. Ksc0pe is not going to be lynched today, at least not if I can help it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Right... so can i finally know why the fuck people wanted me to die then?[/quote]

In time. I'd like to finish the claims first, then I'll let BM prove that he actually caught onto the tell, even though it's not valid anymore.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unless the scum are told in advance what items the person they kill has.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote, Vote: Blight

Forgot that.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Wow, people aren't paying attention. Blight, BM, we're not lynching Ksc0pe. He got his CD from the shop he runs, and he made himself bear bear, because he's the winemaker. YagamiLight has confirmed that the winemaker is the only place to get bear bear. This doesn't preclude the two of them from running a risky scum gambit, but we're not lynching him today.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Blight, I would've agreed with you if it weren't for the people who had already given him a way out. Now he'll just agree with them, because either it's right and he's town, or it's wrong and he's scum who will lie about it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That being said, I think that Ksc0pe should give the bear bear to someone as a show of good faith.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Unvote

[Mastermind of Sin]

Vote: IH

I see the slip now, and I think it's a good one.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"][quote="Kilroy8675309"]I think not claiming items goals is good for two reasons. The first reason would be something you referenced above: it might completely stop any and all item trading. This is something that might come back to bite any of us in the ass (though really, when thought about, I don't think we're gonna be looking for items that don't further our goals

anyway

...)

The second is that I don't want the Mafia knowing if they and I are competing for the same items. Item goal claiming gives the Mafia a reason to off us, and then expect our items to be on the ground to snatch up the very next morning. Hell, I wasn't totally keen on the item claim, but it seemed to have a purpose in outing scum, so... yes.[/quote]

Unvote Vote: Kilroy

You come with this know, when we're almost all done with the claims. Seriously...[/quote]

Actually, I addressed this point a long time ago when discussing the item claims. Protown people should be prepared to snatch up as many items from the dead players as possible when the day starts. That way, if the scum kill people to try and get certain items, they can't have them. They might get one or two, but they won't get them all. They'd have to kill a lot of specific people to get items they want, and all they get out of it is a double vote and everyone knows publicly that they got their items, which puts them in the spotlight. That's not really a very good trade for scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

We should not claim item goals for sure, because we seem to have overlapping goals. No need for protown people to be publicly fighting each other. I mean, if you get someone lynched, they won't be going after your items, right? That's not a good reason to cause problems, so I'm not going to do anything to encourage it.

Unvote

Shop claims don't hurt us that much, but they don't help us either. I see no reason to do them.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm assuming the "you and BM" in Carrotcake's post was referring to myself and BM, but it'd be nice if we got clarification.

Well I'm here (have been the whole time...), I think the main targets right now consist of IH, Mari, and KD. Seems to me it might be best to string someone up and maybe get some claims. To me it seems like though, no matter what is claimed we may not know if its a town or a scum role >>.

This post is really off. IH is not that much of a target. He has two votes, for fuck's sake. Just because you're voting him does not make him a main target. Hell, you and Battle Mage have two votes, so that'd make you two main targets as well. Why did the list have to stop at IH? And while we're on the subject of the list, K-sc0pe should definitely not be lynched today. As far as I can tell all 4 people voting him don't have a reason to do it. They voted on suspicion I created, and that suspicion is no longer valid at all. K-sc0pe is definitely not someone we should consider for lynch today.

Vote: Kinetic

There, now you're a main target for today. Seems a lot better than the "main targets" you suggested.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I WOULD RATHER NO LYNCH THAN LYNCH KSC0PE RIGHT NOW.

Got it?

now let's get back to lynching Kinetic instead of no lynching, because that would be bad.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Is everyone done claiming? If everyone is done claiming, I will explain.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Or rather, BM has offered to show that he was paying attention by giving his own explanation, and I will correct him if he was wrong.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I imed the mod a while back asking for a list of my current items, because I forgot what I had. As it was, I was pretty low on the original claim list, and then we started claiming out of order, so I've been focusing on getting stuff done, because it's not like my claiming later is going to make a difference from earlier.

[Mastermind of Sin]

It isn't.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yup.

[Mastermind of Sin]

How am I clamming up? I've still been contributing what I can, and I'm still waiting for the mod to send me my list of items. I'll tell you now, I think I picked up 2 or 3 items. I can't remember offhand.

[Mastermind of Sin]

.........

[Mastermind of Sin]

For those people who are so desperate for a bandwagon that they were unwilling to even check whether or not BM actually fought against further claiming:

[quote="Battle Mage"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]

Unvote

Do *not* lynch Kscope until we have finished claiming items. He is clearly voting himself in an attempt to cause confusion and hasten the inevitable lynch on himself. I will not let the scum get away with not claiming. Kinetic, I understand your issues, but this really is going to be better for the game. We've already caught one scum as a result of my pushing this item claim, it can't be *that* bad...[/quote]

actually i disagree. Not with what you are saying-it is all true, but with your opinion on where to go from here. We have caught 1 scum today. Thats all we need for the moment. I suggest we lynch Scope now, and then unless we have any solid information to go on, continue the item-claim tomorrow.

BM[/quote]

[quote="Battle Mage"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]Why?[/quote]

I dont want to give the scum more information than necessary about who to kill tonight. Claiming a number of items is the equivalent of claiming a power role-and i dont think we need to do that on a day where our lynch choice is already decided.
I, for one, won't be claiming today. However i will claim first tomorrow if that is the will of the town.

BM

*Ibby-you can GIVE items? i thought the only way you could pass them was by dropping? [/quote]

[quote="Battle Mage"][quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]The only reason I'm actually continue talking because I don't understand and because I am a townie. If I was scum, I would give up since I seriously have no idea the lynch can be turned into another side anyway. Make of that what you want.[/quote]

If you are a townie, you would understand. It really is that simple. I suspect you are scum who doesnt understand. Once you are dead, you ought to continue following the thread, whereby we will explain why you were so obviously scum.

@MoS-much as i dont think we should continue claiming, my answer has been made obvious anyway. As i didnt know we could give items privately at night, i didn't give anything away like that. lol

BM[/quote]

[Mastermind of Sin]

I attempted to pick up two items when day started, but according to my current list, I was only able to pick up one. I failed at getting the Survivor DVD. I picked up the Unreal Tournament Disc, and I am also holding the Microwave.

Current Inventory: Microwave, Unreal Tournament Disc

Battle Mage, claim your items.

Ibaesha, where did I say that no one was helping organize the item claim? I recognize that people have helped update the list, nowhere did I say they hadn't.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS: I didn't say you had. What I said is that you can't say that, in the case where you felt that I was pushing the entire responsibility onto your shoulders. And while I don't believe you should be solely responsible for keeping things straight with the item claim, I do believe you should be more responsible for it than anyone else because you initiated it.

Ah, I see. That was confusing.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh yea, someone was asking about a "plan". Here is the plan

Seriously, though. I just said that to try and freak the scum into claiming their items truthfully so that we can trap them in their claims later on in the game. There is no "plan" that we can immediately gain from, but it'll pay off later when the scum have to keep to their claims.

[Mastermind of Sin]

No, it doesn't matter whether or not they keep their items. The fact is, they told the truth about what they HAVE, so we can track every item in the game, and new items can be tracked as they are introduced into the game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

awww. I think LML should get to post his goodbye post since he already wrote it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

ah its not as bad as i thought. I only have 3 items atm.

Textbooks (from ma shop)
Chocolate Chip Cookies
Messenger

But i weally weally want the Survivor DVD. :p

BM, how did you get the cookies and messenger?

[Mastermind of Sin]

okay, i'm back. got married. surprised that i wasn't replaced. will read through asap.

Congrats!

QFT

[Mastermind of Sin]

Kilroy, when did you try to pick up the Survivor DVD? Give me a date/time that you sent the pm.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Sorry for the absence. Something came up.

I have confirmed that I am currently holding naught and only a Survivor DVD. I sent in the pick-up on Mon Sep 03, 2007, 10:37 pm PST.

that would explain it. I tried to pick it up a day late.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FlyingFoxbat, rolandofthewhite and xyzzy need to claim their items or I will lynch them. Personally.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoSGut agrees with IbbyGut

[Mastermind of Sin]

FlyingFoxbat, rolandofthewhite and xyzzy need to claim their items or I will lynch them. Personally.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm starting to really think Kilroy is being a little too suspicious right now... What is it with all the people who were pushing the item claim so vehemently are so unwilling to claim when it is their turn hmm?

What are you talking about? I claimed already...plz check your facts dude.

[Mastermind of Sin]

That would be retarded for him not to believe my reasons. Nothing else happened between the time people were clamoring for a claim and the time I claimed. It's not like I would gain something by telling you the mod hadn't PMed me my items. As it is, it's a good thing I asked the mod to pm me, because I didn't get every item I asked for. Someone said I should just look at what I told the mod to pick up, and if I'd done that, I would've made a false claim. So Kinetic is pretty much attacking me for the fact that I *didn't* lie about my claim. That's what it boils down to.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I agree with carrotcake. I want an explanation from Kilroy.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FlyingFoxbat, rolandofthewhite and xyzzy need to claim their items or I will lynch them. Personally.

Unvote, Vote: Xyzzy

FoS: Roland and FlyingFoxbat

I suggest that people join me in this endeavor. If they refuse to claim, we lynch them.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Guys, stop voting Kilroy.

WE NEED TO LYNCH XYZZY AND ROLAND BECAUSE THEY ARE REFUSING TO CLAIM THEIR ITEMS AFTER EVERYONE ELSE HAD TO CLAIM.

If you all keep voting Kilroy, they're going to get away without claiming, because you're going to lynch him first. We can always lynch Kilroy later, but we need to rid ourselves of the obstinate fools who are defying the will of the town.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Roland has posted

3 times

in 31 pages.

Xyzzy has posted

4 times

in 31 pages.

WHY ARE WE NOT LYNCHING THEM RIGHT NOW!?

[Mastermind of Sin]

MOS is acting very badly.
Someone else did this in antoher game, so maybe I'm just sensitive, but stating that you have no interest in a game - and then asknig when the day is close to end - seems fishy.
FISHY. Like salmon, only without the butter.
MOS is too good a player to do something so blatantly scummy, right? Or is he? BEcause he's always scum in large games. Always.

I don't remember doing that.

Also, I was town in Kingmaker, Consulmaker, MeMeMeet, Evolution, etc. So you lose. =P

[Mastermind of Sin]

Interestingly enough, I've had 10 games as town and 15 games as scum on the first page of Theme Park. But that's not really relevant. I'm going to sleep now so I stop saying things that don't pertain to the game, like this sentence.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Jex, you need to claim your items before you do anything else.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Oh. I thought Jex replaced Foxbat, who has been the person needing replacement more than anyone else in this game.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Obv.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I agree with carrotcake. I want an explanation from Kilroy.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So? It's not like everyone else hasn't done the same thing. Do it or die, kthnx.

[Mastermind of Sin]

First,

FoS MoS

I don't really like how he went about Kilroy just then.

???

[Mastermind of Sin]

We need like 2 more claims.

Unvote, Vote: Roland

Fuck lynching Kilroy. Roland

knows

he needs to post in this game. He is specifically avoiding it with a deadline approaching. Let's lynch him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

FoSing isn't good enough. If we keep our votes on Kilroy, what incentive does Roland (or xyzzy, for that matter) have to actually post and claim today? We need to lynch them if they do not claim, and voting Kilroy is not helping the town right now. If the two of them claim, we can lynch Kilroy. Until then, we have more important people to lynch.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Everybody note how much FLC is scum, but then copy what he did so that we can get Roland to claim (voting roland is not scummy).

[Mastermind of Sin]

I think so, but Theo can post to affirm this.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well, two things. First, Raj is clearly not going to replace them because they *know* they are lurking and are just not posting to spite us. Second, Kilroy is probably not scum. I have seen him pull this shit before, and he was town. He purposefully lied about his protown power role in that game because he got a kick out of being a flaming douchebag. I'm inclined to believe that he is just too immature to actually cooperate with anyone and learn how to truly play the game. He's one of those people that I wouldn't miss if he left and came back a different person (like Cubs did, only he became *more* immature).

[Mastermind of Sin]

Well to be blunt I'd rather we lynch Kilroy and have Roland and Xyzzy replaced but that blatantly happening. I find it slightly weird however that you'd choose to vote Xyzzy instead of Roland considering the deadline.

Flaming douchebag != scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

So lobby to get him replaced, don't lynch him. We only want to lynch scum, like you.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yes, waffles are good.

[Mastermind of Sin]

roland just told me hes going to post tonight. and i would hate to put any replacement into your feeding frenzy. so i am going to replace the easiest person, Mole. who looked like he disappeared on us.

Tarhalindur (replacing mole)

ps, i have 2-3 replacements waiting in the wing for tomorrow.

There would be no feeding frenzy if they were here. If you just freaking replace them, we'll stop lynching them. It's as simple as that. We just want some freaking participants so we can get back to playing the freaking game.




There, I think I controlled myself rather well.

[Mastermind of Sin]

the reason you have the deadline is because you all arnt playing the freaking game. how about you all start playing it and stop worrying about 2 out of the 26 people. why can't you play with those people?

WE CAN PLAY WITH THOSE PEOPLE.

THEY ARE NOT PLAYING WITH US.

IF YOU REFUSE TO REPLACE THEM, THAT JUST MEANS THAT THEY TOLD YOU THEY ARE ACTIVELY LURKING, SO I AM GOING TO MAKE SURE THEY

DIE

.





P.S. FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING FREAKING

[Mastermind of Sin]

I have nothing to add to the current discussion about lynching lurkers. I'd rather lynch the lying scumbag, Kilroy, today.

See me case where I show that Kilroy is not scum. Thanks.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Actually, Ibby, I think he's been pretty much an asshole, but I'll check sometime to see if that's not the case.

[Mastermind of Sin]

WE NEED TO VOTE XYZZY UNLESS HE CLAIMS HIS ITEMS

Unvote: Roland, Vote: Xyzzy

[Mastermind of Sin]

SEE, MY PLAN IS WORKING. IF WE FINISH OFF THIS CLAIM FINALLY, I CAN STOP BEING ANNOYING AND GET BACK TO PLAYING THE GAME. <3 IBBY.

ALSO, WE MUST HAVE A TRIBUTE TO STEVIET92:

CAPS LOCK IS CRUISE CONTROL FOR AWESOME!

QFT

[Mastermind of Sin]

Andy, everyone except you and xyzzy have claimed an item so far. Just tell us what items you have and you can keep rereading.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'll look at it this weekend I hope. If someone else gets a chance to check it over, that'd be nice. Also, you should add your claim.

Just looked really quick, it's missing a few claims like mine and Battle Mage's.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Kinetic, just claim what item you dropped. Don't be an ass.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MoS:

I don't understand the whole attack on scope. You seemed to have this sure way of finding scum from suggesting the item claim, and apparently scope fit this plan since you attacked him so hard. However, you later decide that scope isn't the lynch target for the day, still with no explanation to the town. You later describe your plan as not really being able to catch scum today but able to find them later on based on their claims today. I don't get how this ties in with how sure you were that scope was mafia. I would really like to have the whole scope thing explained a little more throughly.

It's simple really. Kscope claimed to have multiple items after earlier claiming that he didn't pick up, drop, or receive anything. It seemed to be a slip in his claim, so I pushed it. When we finally got more detail on his role, it came to light that he could have *made* one of the items in addition to getting one from his "shop".

My plan to catch mafia didn't have anything to do with the Scope wagon. I thought Scope had slipped up, but it certainly wasn't my intention to get results like that on D1. I thought we got lucky. I was wrong. It happens.

I really don't like MoS's push to lynch the lurkers. Why push to lynch and not push to replace? The three people in question for not posting their items never said they wouldn't claim, they just haven't claimed. They haven't posted anything at all. I don't see the push for lynching them. I would understand if you merely wanted to hold off the kilroy wagon until they claimed, but not lynch them.

You don't really get it, do you? The players under question were picking up prods and then not posting. They were lurking on purpose. The only way to draw them out in the open was to seriously threaten to lynch them. If they didn't think it was serious, they would have no incentive to post. As it was, I was totally ready for replacements. You'll notice that several times I said we were going to wagon them unless they were replaced. In fact, I did a lot of effort on my own to try and convince people to replace xyzzy, but that's beside the point.

And no, I don't "merely want to hold off the kilroy wagon".

I don't support the Kilroy wagon, because I don't think he is scum

. Even after roland and xyzzy were replaced, I am not supporting a Kilroy lynch.

Also, BM has not been controlling the town. He has been following me around all day since I convinced him to go with the mass claim. I seriously doubt, from the reactions most people have had, that anyone is taking their lead from BM. No offense to BM, but it really doesn't look like he's leading the town. I might be leading the town, but I'm not going to pass judgement on that. It does tend to happen occasionally, though.

[Mastermind of Sin]

also

FoS: MoS

every time i see you lead the town, you seem to turn up scum (recently anyway). Plus its way out of character for you to defend me. :p

That was an interesting reaction. I accuse you of following me around all game and you say I'm defending you? Which game are you playing here?

I can't reference anything specifically, but this isn't the only game where I've led a Day 1 mass claim, and I'm nearly 100% confirmed protown in the other game. Just saying. That doesn't make me protown, but it certainly makes your "you've been scum every time you lead the town" case a bunch of BS.

2) You claimed to be hoarding items. That is really scummy in my opinion. Why would you want so many items that you can't lose? The fact that MOS was doing so as well piqued my interest. Scum trying to get items their friends need and then passing them later? No, you saying that and refusing to claim doesn't fly for me.

Why wouldn't I hoard items? I'm rather suspicious of the people who thought it was in the town's benefit to drop their items where scum can pick them up. I tried to pick up several items

so that scum couldn't get them

. I fail to see how this is scummy. In addition, if I had a hidden agenda behind picking up multiple items, why would I tell you I tried, since I only actually picked up one item. You can argue that I really did forget what items I had, but that debunks the argument that I was stalling my claim on purpose. Can't have it both ways.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't agree with Mass Claim, in any of the 20 ways that were pushed forward, but I don't buy this miraculous conversion of yours to the no item claim at such a convenient time. Because if you and MOS weren't pushing the mass claim there wouldn't have BEEN a mass claim. You're the one who can't have it both ways.

Check your facts. I won't do the work for you.

2) You claimed to be hoarding items. That is really scummy in my opinion. Why would you want so many items that you can't lose? The fact that MOS was doing so as well piqued my interest. Scum trying to get items their friends need and then passing them later? No, you saying that and refusing to claim doesn't fly for me.

Why wouldn't I hoard items? I'm rather suspicious of the people who thought it was in the town's benefit to drop their items where scum can pick them up. I tried to pick up several items

so that scum couldn't get them

. I fail to see how this is scummy. In addition, if I had a hidden agenda behind picking up multiple items, why would I tell you I tried, since I only actually picked up one item. You can argue that I really did forget what items I had, but that debunks the argument that I was stalling my claim on purpose. Can't have it both ways.

While this wasn't directed at you, I'm half-glad you decided to chyme in. You see, I was using you as an example. Now, what I think was happening was that you were attempting to Horde items, but that you didn't intend to claim them all. When people started claiming items you thought you had, you wanted to find out th truth from raj. You then decided to stall, and because you knew we wouldn't believe you unless you told the truth there, you decided it didn't matter since you weren't holding the items. So yes, I can be suspicious of you for

attempting

to horde items, and then not being prepared for your own item claim.

Again, why would I tell anyone that I was attempting to horde items? You have no way of knowing if I left out some of the items I had. Why would I every say that I was hording items if I had an anti-town motivation for doing so?

I note that you completely neglected to address my argument for protown people to pick up a lot of items. This argument has been given several times and you never voiced a complaint, yet you think I am scum for hording items. I smell an inconsistency.

Does anyone else think BM has simply snapped at this point? He used to think somewhat logically, but right now, he just seems out of it.

Yes. He's started doing his quotes backwards again.

Unvote, Vote: Tautology

Your lack of contribution is unacceptable. You look to be actively lurking here. You are clearly watching the thread, since you chimed in to support moving the deadline today, something that would clearly have not been beneficial to the town at this point. I think you were hoping to slip by the rest of the day without being noticed.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Gummy Bears? o.O

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm with Mariyta. BM, why should a vig eliminate everyone who has ever suspected you, just for suspecting you?

QFT.

BM is overreacting.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why are we not getting more tautology votes? Kilroy is clearly a scum-driven wagon.

[Mastermind of Sin]

^this is why we are voting him.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Taut needs to die!

[Mastermind of Sin]

I'm assuming that scotmany ran the back alley. Either that or someone has the ability to destroy a shop. *shrug*

[Mastermind of Sin]

Probably an ability to destroy stuff. Why are you asking so many questions about the setup? We have no way of knowing all of this for sure.

[Mastermind of Sin]

More votes on tautology, less on Kilroy. I am extremely suspicious of the people just sitting their votes on Kilroy just because he's being an ass, instead of lynching the incredibly scummy tautology. Smells of scum trying to keep their mislynch going until it's too close to deadline to go after anyone else.

[Mastermind of Sin]

What's scummy about changing my mind? It's not like I nothing has happened to change my mind. It didn't come out of the clear blue.

[Mastermind of Sin]

[quote="Jex"][quote="Mastermind of Sin"]What's scummy about changing my mind? It's not like I nothing has happened to change my mind. It didn't come out of the clear blue.[/quote]

I never said that you changing your mind was scummy. I said I don't understand why the town is so blindly following you. The followers are scummy in my eyes.[/quote]

[quote="Jex"]MoS is continously saying one person is scummy, only to change his mind.[/quote]

What was the point of this comment, then?

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]I'm extremly suspicious of MoS trying to control someone's votes.[/quote]

Nice OMGUS.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Not every reciprocal suspicion is OMGUS, MOS. One could just as easily ask why you are so desperate to defend Kilroy.

His comment about me is a very weak reason, so I can only assume he felt threatened and attacked me back.

I think Kilroy is scummy for his actions, and even in the event that he turns up town, there will be a

lot

of information from his lynch, both from the people on (and off) his bandwagon and the interactions between him and other people early in the game. With the deadline in two days,

unvote, vote: Kilroy

. I have no strong opinion on Tautology either way but I don't expect him to get nine votes before deadline.

And this is exactly what scum would do.

Let's lynch Tautology, people. Kilroy may

possibly

be scum, but he's not the play for today. The "evidence" against him so far is higly inconclusive, since he's shown this behavior in the past. Just because you don't like him isn't a reason to vote him. Ibby is about the only person who has actually bothered to respond to me about this, everyone else is just riding by and staying silent, or (in TSS's case) ignoring it and jumping on the wagon anyways. This wagon is a recipe for disaster.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Guys, just decide on one of Tautology/TSS, and do it quickly. Already the scum are using the deadline excuse to push through a lynch on Kilroy.

Ibby, is that the best you can do? You forgot? So what? So did everyone else? That doesn't give us any insight on how you feel about TSS's recent jump onto the Kilroy wagon.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ibby, you're just encouraging people to sit on the Kilroy wagon with stuff like that. Everyone knows that no lynch is bad, but I'm not willing to compromise. I would *not* hammer Kilroy. I want Kilroy/TSS lynched, and that's all I'll settle for. I'm not going to give people room to think they are safe on the Kilroy wagon.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Honestly MOS, I could see MOSscum making this play against Taut for two reasons. One, you could be trying to distance yourself from a townie lynch and start setting up a Day 2 lynch or Two) Kilroy could be your scum partner and you're trying to avert his lynch.

*shrug* I can't really fight theories. Anything I could say would just be called WIFOM.

That being said, I can't see MOStown being

this

certain that Kilroy is not scum. Unless there is something you're not telling the rest of us.

It's more that I'm so much more sure of Tautology, AND the behavior of the people on the Kilroy wagon should be setting off alarm bells in the heads of any protown player.

If Kilroy was not a viable lynch target, I think I would vote Taut, but I'm feeling sure enough in my analysis at this point to think that Kilroy has a better chance of being scum than Taut. It is also certainly possible they're scum together, but there is something intangible that is telling me that Taut isn't the right play today.

There is something VERY tangible telling all of us that Kilroy isn't the right play today.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't really see the contradiction in those quoted posts. When you think about it, it just doesn't have a "he's sinister scum plotting to ruin us all!" feel behind it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MOS, you keep going off onto these tangets that are very distracting, and while I understand your intentions, I'm happy with my vote and promise to look more closely at Tautology tomorrow.
Granted, Kilroy's been my only vote, but each time we get close to deadline or a bandwagon gets started, there's some new distraction, and I'm starting to feel like you're at the center of it. When I have time to do a re-read, I'll try to verify this cause right now it's just a feeling.

No, fuck that. I'm not going off onto tangents. What fucking tangents have I been on? I went after Kscope before there was even a wagon on Kilroy, that's not a tangent, it was the main bandwagon in the game. I went after Tautology because there is a goddamned good reason to think he is scum, and everyone's like "oh, we can look at him tomorrow!" while he lurks through the rest of the day without having to worry about being lynched, because all his scumbuddies are pushing the Kilroy wagon enough that he's safe. It is

NOT

in the town's best interest to lynch Kilroy right now, and I'm sticking by that. I cannot believe that you people are willing to just sit on that goddamned scumwagon and condemn him to death while there are people that have practically claimed scum and are getting away with it!

Fucking hell...

[Mastermind of Sin]

I will not be able to post content until tonight or next monday. I have an Ultimate tournament this weekend.

[Mastermind of Sin]

TheStranger, can you give us a summary of your views after about 20-30 pages? I want to see how you view the game before being tainted by the bullshit that we're dealing with right now.

[Mastermind of Sin]

MOS, I think a lot of the bullshit has been caused, in part, by you (which I know was not your intention). A lot of people blindly followed you and BM on the claim, probably because most people trust your judgment, and now we're 40 pages into day one and still do not have a lynch.

Also, getting mad at people because they refuse to blindly trust you again only makes you look foolish. Just because you no longer see a case on Kilroy, it doesn't mean the rest of us don't. I personally refuse to let a person slip by simply because you feel someone else is a stronger case. We've all seen Kilroy's actions, and they are undoubtedly scummy. I'm not going to ignore that.

WTF? I'm not asking anyone to blindly follow you. The case against Tautology is right fucking there, and it's a hell of a lot stronger than this bullshit case against Kilroy.

Chil, hun. I can make margaritas if that will help? I'm willing to listen, but we need you to take it down a few notches, k? Personal attacks, cursing, shouting and arguing the way you are isn't going to get anyone to listen to you. In fact, the more you insist that you are right, without providing "evidence", I tune you out even more. Your HWFO (Hand Waving Freak Outery) is doing you and your case no good.

THE EVIDENCE HAS ALREADY BEEN PROVIDED. THAT IS WHY I AM PISSED OFF. THE EVIDENCE IS RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU AND PEOPLE ARE IGNORING IT TO PUSH A BULLSHIT KILROY CASE.

Kilroy was caught in his lies and his failure to explain things raises my haunches even more than his refusal to fully claim after supporting the initial claim...add to that his mysterious disappearance and I'm failing to understand why you think he's not a good lynch for today.
Explain please?

Kilroy acts like this as town. I have seen him purposefully fuck around with a claim before, and he was town then as well. This is

normal

for protown Kilroy.

Lynch scum today, lynch scum tomorrow, lynch scum the next day...we can't get rid of them all in one day and right now Kilroy is the one I'm feeling and he happens to have the most momentum. You're going to have to post something more compelling than someone with the same post-count category as me is asking a lot of questions about game setup...because I'm willing to be forgiving of that...shoot I'm confused half the time.

Kilroy has the most momentum because the scum have duped a lot of people into going after him, and everyone else is too lazy to look at anyone else. Tautology has lurked a lot worse than Kilroy is now, and he's trying to play the "safe" contribution game, without actually giving us any content that means anything.

PS. Yay a post that didn't take me 24 hours (yes, an exaggeration) to compose! Maybe I should drunk post more often!

I should drunk post, too.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Okay, I double-checked MOS's posts to see what the fuss about tautology was about and how his opinions on Kilroy shifted over time. Turns out he was just fine with lynching Kilroy until he started agitating to delay it in favor of a lurker lynch, and when he was done pushing for the claim failures he was suddenly certain that Kilroy was town.

Any idiot can tell that you are purposefully phrasing this "summary" in order to make it look a lot worse than it already was, but I thought I'd point it out for anyone who missed that.

Seriously, though, just because I was fine with a Kilroy lynch before does not mean I can't change my mind. I thought it over, considered the facts, and actually presented a case for him to be protown, one that you conveniently ignored.

He first came out against tautology one week ago, and his only stated reason was that taut seemed to be lurking intentionally. This is, in fact, a legitimate reason to suspect taut, but his statements about how taut has "practically claimed scum" grossly overstate the case.

See: Tautology's more recent posts. Hell, I've even quoted and asked about said posts, so I can't see why you missed it in your "summary".

[Mastermind of Sin]

DAMNIT.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Like, hi!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Welcome back. I guess you've been reincarnated!

something like that, except for the fact that I, like, remember absolutely nothing about this game other than that some guy organized a mass claim the first day. Like, how cool is that?

[Mastermind of Sin]

like, why would you kill me tonight? That would be totally uncool. I bet Tar is trying to make us believe *everything* he says is the truth, since he's been forthcoming. I suspect armlx is, like, totally bad guy. Also, believe it or not, but one of my parents are, like, cool yo...

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why do we, like, trust Kinetic, again?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Ok. Andycyca, I have some, like, questions for you.

1) What is your name?
2) What is your, like, sex? *giggle*
3) What building do you have?
4) What items have you collected so far?
5) What items have you used?
6) What items are you trying to collect?
7) Are you, like, bad?

[Mastermind of Sin]

Someone else with alcohol should target Elvis, I don't want Kinetic-scum making more babies.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I don't get why Kinetic is the one who wants me to claim and MoS is doing the questions. BTW, MoS I have already claimed my building.

Because, I'm, like, new to this town. I was just born last night, how could I, like, know what you've already done if you don't tell me?

[Mastermind of Sin]

1) I don't see why it, like, hurts to share it. If you're going to claim your role, you should claim it fully.

6) Just wanted to see if you'd claim something.

7) Of course I'm, like, referring to your faction. And how would you know that my faction is not your faction, unless your faction is, like, an informed minority (in which case, you'd know *everyone* who has the same alignment as you)...I smell something fishy...

[Mastermind of Sin]

Like, Congratulations!

[Mastermind of Sin]

This is my sister. She is number four prostitute in all of Freaktown. Very nice!

[Mastermind of Sin]

Why the hell did the mafia use 2 kills on me? They had 3 kills available, they would've won the game outright had they not double-killed me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

fyi I think this was a really neat and innovative setup ruined by flaking. I think these mechanics should be refined and reused in a mini to test it with less flaking.