Mafia 68: Ork - Game over!

[Yosarian2]

Yeah, we really don't know, IH. Either we've got 5 power roles alive, or 4 power roles and 1 scum pretending to be a power role. Either way, we get the same number of townie claims.

[Khelvaster]

If the doc is dead and the scum claimed doc, that will be almost impossible to catch. How are we going to deal with that possibility?

[IH]

I am the only one that can prove it = \

Godfather makes it impossible to do so for cop.

[Kinetic]

The bolded section clearly states "Before the day ends". At that point I thought the day didn't end if I pardoned the lynch. I was wrong, THAT is why I'm very worried now....

So, what was all that talk that there was some way you could confirm yourself without using your ability that you would only tell us about once the massclaim was done?

Have you read after the mass claim at all? Shanba even figured out my plan before I said it...

The rules said if the Governor was was alive at the end of the day then twilight would last 72 hours. But I just assumed that if he was dead then twilight would end like normal, as soon as the mod noticed a lynch had occurred. Well SL just came back and either changed that rule so that I couldn't confirm myself that way, or clarified the way he originally intended it to be, thus I can't confirm myself that way...

[Kinetic]

Khel: Honestly, if the doc claims today and does not die night one, the Mafia are playing a big game of WIFOM. In my opinion, the doc should stay hidden and mess with the mafia's head.

Also, after thinking about it this is my decision on using my Governor ability: If near the end of the day I find the person about to be lynched scummy, I'm going to let the lynch go. If I think that person is a town and either it is a bad or sum driven lynch, I will pardon them. I'll announce my decision at Lynch -1.

I'm doing this for two reasons.

One, I'm not going to just throw out what I consider a good lynch just to confirm myself. If you think that I'm scum for that, great, make that case. But as it stands, I'm confirmed in my own head, and that is all that matters to me.

Second, I don't want the scum to relax and think that no matter who is brought up to lynch today that they are safe and will be pardoned. The scum know my claim is true because they know that there is no reason for a townie to claim this power role if they aren't it, and I'm not one of them. So they would expect, if the pressure is high enough for me to pardon, that no matter who it is, even one of their members, they don't have to worry.

Well I'm saying this, even if it causes my own lynch, if I feel that the person about to be lynched today is scum, I'm going to let the lynch go through.

[IH]

Kinetic. I swear if you don't stop the lynch today......

I would say Kinetic needs to be vigged if he doesn't prove himself. Seriously. = | It just looks like scum trying to wiggle out of proving themselves.

[Kinetic]

IH, honestly you're the one I'm most concerned is scum, I was honestly surprised that you didn't claim townie.

That being said, I completely understand you trying to get me killed as the scum hiding in a power role, because then it would "confirm" you. Except when the Vig kills me, we're down one confirmed townie because you're an idiot.

I also would understand if you decided to take the mafia's safe claim because I would have personally led your lynch this day had you claimed townie.

So yea, entice the vig to kill me if I don't stop the lynch today. And while you're at it scum, why not claim you have a guilty on the Inspector. I do not believe you for a second, and I'm going to keep my eye on you all game. One slip up, and I mean one, and I will be all over you like Micheal Jackson on little boys.

As it stands, I have a small list of people in my head that I would stop the lynch of, and a small list of people I wouldn't. That list will not become public.

The ONLY person I might listen to if they see the lynch coming and they tell me to stop the lynch is Shanba.

[Guardian]

Of the 5 power roles, I only have significant doubt about Shanba, and even that is slight.

Kinetic, seriously, IH is town. IH, seriously, Kinetic is town.

If you two believe that, and that is my one (well, besides getting the mass claim rolling) contribution to the game, I will be somewhat happy.




We really need to focus attention on the claimed townies.


Re: the doc being killed -- if the scum start NKing the claimed townies, we are really OK with that. It is not very likely they NKed the doc N0, and unless they decide NOT to pick off our power roles, the doc will be safe from being scum killed.

Personally, I think we should very blatantly give flameaxe suggestions on who to kill. Ultimately, it is his decision, but (no offense) I trust the collective judgment of the town moreso than I trust flame's.


MoS, why do you find Khelv townlike? I can agree with your Gorrad suspicion, though.


There are some important game theory issues to deal with, but scum-hunting right now, at... PAGE 25... would be nice.

[Flameaxe]

No offense taken. I don't trust my own judgement.

[Kinetic]

MOS: The only way the person you contacted could be in trouble confirming you as mason is if you turn up scum. It is completely possible you could have targeted scum so it doesn't matter what your target comes up. If they do come up scum, that might be interesting for you, but otherwise it doesn't do anything for them except confirm you as town...

So if you did target someone night one, you need to tell us. If you didn't, well then you need to keep who you do target N2 a secret, I agree.

[Kinetic]

I have no problem directing the Vig. I do have a problem directing him at me . But directing him helps 2 things: 1 if Shanba is the true inspector she can know who not to inspect so that we don't have to worry about them targeting the same person, and he can also help direct him away from here current secret innocents.

[Sefer]

We need to decide what's more important: confirming the Governor or cutting down the list of possible scum. Normally the point of a day one lynch is the information we can gain from it (a role, perspective on how people interacted with the lynchee that day). We still get that from Kinetic confirming himself, and if that's the more important aspect, we should vote Kinetic and have him pardon himself (in that there's nothing that precludes this in the Governor description, I assume that a self-pardon is valid.

Mod

, is this the case?). This means we confirm the Governor or, if he is scum, lynch him automatically. That's not a bad deal.
On the other hand, it seems unlikely that he is scum, just because it was pointed out how easy he could be confirmed (before it was certain that the pardon prevented a different lynch from occuring or that the time twilight took wouldn't confrim him). Also, it does seem like the Governor will be an early target: he's a confirmable power role that won't get Angel protection. He's worth more than a townie and killing him doesn't reduce the number of people we have to search through to find scum. If he's still around in mid to late game, we'll need him to confirm himself then, but I see no reason to do it now when scum will probably do it for us just to avoid cutting down the list of claimed townie suspects.

Unvote

. I haven't figured out who the vote is going on yet; I'll need to reread, hopefully in the next couple of days.

[CoolBot]

Wasting the Day 1 lynch is a very bad move. We need a good reason to do so, and simply confirming Kinetic isn't good enough. We can confirm hin any time in the future, not just this day. We should be hunting scum.

It seems IH and CDK are the ones pushing the hardest to burn the Governor's ability and get through day 1 without a lynch. We shouldn't lynch IH yet, since he probably can confirm Shanba. But CDK looks like a good lynch to me.

[Guardian]

Wasting the Day 1 lynch is a very bad move. We need a good reason to do so, and simply confirming Kinetic isn't good enough. We can confirm hin any time in the future, not just this day. We should be hunting scum.

It seems IH and CDK are the ones pushing the hardest to burn the Governor's ability and get through day 1 without a lynch. We shouldn't lynch IH yet, since he probably can confirm Shanba. But CDK looks like a good lynch to me.

qft.

except that I don't particularly think CKD is a great lynch. Could be, but I don't think so. Why CKD, just his governor claiming thing?

Gorrad I could go with, and again, I think Khel's actions this game fit into a scum-motivated view.

[Kinetic]

Mod

, is this the case?). This means we confirm the Governor or, if he is scum, lynch him automatically. That's not a bad deal..

Actually, that is a bad idea. Read the rules, I already asked SL this question (I can't remember if it was by PM or in the thread), but the Gov cannot pardon himself. Its in the first or second post under questions now.

[Kinetic]

I've been in other games with CKD... I actually think he is town... I can't really elaborate, mainly because my reasoning is based on a game that isn't finished. So I really wouldn't prefer a lynch on him. If I had to choose, among the claimed townies who to lynch, I would choose either: Gorrad or pie_is_good.

As for Tar: I would choose him, but I'm pretty sure he is the Lyncher... His question sounds to me like him wanting to know if the Lyncher still wins if we pardon the person he wants to Lynch... Seems to me only the Lyncher would want to know that. If SL came back with something along the lines of "The Lyncher would win, even if the lynch was pardoned" I would expect him to come out, say his target, then say we could prove the Gov and let him win at the same time...

Just a guess though .

[Guardian]

Gorrad, I know you count gut feelings as minor evidence, but from my count 4 or so people have pretty strong gut feelings about you being scum.

So give us your suspicions, do something significant, etc.

[Sefer]

Mod

, is this the case?). This means we confirm the Governor or, if he is scum, lynch him automatically. That's not a bad deal..

Actually, that is a bad idea. Read the rules, I already asked SL this question (I can't remember if it was by PM or in the thread), but the Gov cannot pardon himself. Its in the first or second post under questions now.

Oops. Never mind that idea, then. My conclusion in that post still stands; we'd just have to pick someone we do find scummy to lynch in case you're lying.

[Tarhalindur]

I've been in other games with CKD... I actually think he is town... I can't really elaborate, mainly because my reasoning is based on a game that isn't finished. So I really wouldn't prefer a lynch on him. If I had to choose, among the claimed townies who to lynch, I would choose either: Gorrad or pie_is_good.

As for Tar: I would choose him, but I'm pretty sure he is the Lyncher... His question sounds to me like him wanting to know if the Lyncher still wins if we pardon the person he wants to Lynch... Seems to me only the Lyncher would want to know that. If SL came back with something along the lines of "The Lyncher would win, even if the lynch was pardoned" I would expect him to come out, say his target, then say we could prove the Gov and let him win at the same time...

Just a guess though .

Actually, no. AFAIK, I'm vanilla town- however, scotmany's behavior and voting record is making me increasingly paranoid about the possibility that he is the Lyncher and I am his target.

That said, your reasoning convinces me that this is the correct play for today:

Unvote, Vote: Tarhalindur

Flameaxe, feel free to kill me if I'm still alive tonight.

Kinetic, if you are town, you

need

to pardon the lynch today.

[scotmany12]

You mean my voting record where I only voted for mert which was my random vote? And which I unvoted a while ago before any pressure was even brought up about it? I really don't see what you are getting at. I haven't even voiced any suspicions of you so far and have not pushed for your lynch at all. Seriously, what reasons make you think that I am the lyncher?

[Gorrad]

Do something significant? Alright. It'll take some time to read through (and sleep), but expect within twenty-four hours a complete scumlist, ordered, with post numbers, et cetera, et cetera. Meanwhile, does anyone have anything OTHER than a gut feeling against me? A gut feeling is all well and good, but if four people have one, there's got to be some evidence somewhere against me, and I'd like to hear it.

[Gorrad]

Clarification: I didn't mean to not do much significant this game, but the whole mass claim thing, plus the drama midway, was frankly a bit overwhelming. Sorry about that, I'll try to be a bit more proactive here on out.

[Kinetic]

Tar, self voting doesn't convince me you are town. Also, telling me what I

have

to do doesn't convince me to do it either. Usually that has the opposite effect on me.

[Guardian]

for the record (cuz I might forget): Kinetic, in theory, Governor is an ability that should never be used.

unless you are like 100% someone being lynched is town, and you really, really need to prove yourself, pardoning a lynch usually is a bad decision. search through mafia discussion if I am not to be believed.

obligatory

fos: tar

, scum self vote more often than town do, in my experience...

anyone less of a lazy ass like me and want to build a case on Khel? ;D Yos2 is probably scum also. That statement is true regardless of the game he is in.

[Kinetic]

lol Guardian.

No, I believe you about my ability. I agree with you, that is why I'm really surprised/annoyed at the people who want me to just use it willy/nilly. I'll use it if I absolutely have to, but I would prefer not to.