Mini 471: End.

[pickemgenius]

...I'll lynch her again.

yeah... cause last time was...

"Great Success"

well... maybe to you it was anyway...

[Albert B. Rampage]

I joke. Adel can't be brought back since she knows who she protected.

[NabakovNabakov]

No she doesn't. She was the lynch, and was therefore dead N1. She knows nothing more than we do.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Damn. Well, I tried...

[kravhen]

Hello again people.
Guess who's back. O_O

Ok so I'll have alot of rereading to do since i've kinda stopped reading after i got killed. It feels special being in another player's shoes, especially one I had previously suspected strongly, if I recall correctly. One of the hypothesis of ds' behavior ( she was the one to cry out and whine when she was almost lynched, right? ) was that she was just a newbie and didn't know any other way to deal with the pressure on her. Well that theory was right, apparently. I feel like a one-night cop that threw an investigation on Deadscilent to clear her from personal suspicion once and for all. That feels good. Now the place she occupied in my mind has been freed, and I can focus on other people, where the scum truly lies.

The hunt has started once again, and it seems I get a chance at revenge for my death! Bring it on!

[Atticus]

"Well, I guess we get a"
Vote Count

NabakovNabakov

(2):

kravhen, Albert B. Rampage

ChronX

(1):

Sir Tornado

Not Voting (7): theopor_COD, ChronX, Blue Zebra, Erotomachia, Patrick, NabakovNabakov, pickemgenius

Searching for a replacement on Patrick.

[kravhen]

Unvote: Nabakov

obviously until I reread this and get my own opinion.[/b]

[Sir Tornado]

Note the "trying." Your vote wasn't made on in-game reasons, so it couldn't have been used to punctuate arguments or apply pressure. (How is somebody supposed to defend themsevles against something like that?) I see no other explanation than a poor attempt at a wagon.

I metagame a lot. Almost my entire first day case in Big Love mafia against Ryan was based on metagame arguments (And, I am dead, and revealed as townie in that game)

I used that argument, because that is the shortest shortlist I found of people to consider. I am not averse to using out of game reasons (as long as it is not cheating or communicating with anyone outside) to hunt scum.

[NabakovNabakov]

I'm fine with the "Player X acted A in this game where he was town, but he's acting B in this game. Let's vote him." meta-game. But I think it's a far cry from "Player X reguarly chats with Player Y outside the thread, so he might have slipped that information."

To a small extent, it's a valid argument (though you're taking too narrow a perspective by saying whoever slipped to Patrick is scum), but it crosses the line. In much the same way we're not supposed to discuss the game outside the thread, it seems unethical to bring in things having nothing to do with the game (or mafia itself really) and use them as arguments to try to get somebody lynched. There's a reason that Patrick withdrew from the game. It was to avoid exactly the kind of behavior you're exhibiting right now.


I too am glad that Deadscilent has gotten a replacement. VI's (scum or town) are a horrible strain on any game. Now we will have a chance to determine her allignment for ourselves (and we already have a handy in-thread meta-game of Kravhen's town play).

[pickemgenius]

Now we will have a chance to determine her allignment for ourselves (and we already have a handy in-thread meta-game of Kravhen's town play).

I don't like this.

Seriously don't like this.

This is far from true... you're smarter then this NabNab...

[NabakovNabakov]

Pickem: I don't get what you're saying. My main complaint about VI's is that they're unscrutable. Now that we have a competent player in that role, we will actually have behavior to examine. How is that far from the truth?

[Erotomachia]

I like ChronX's first few posts. They seem pretty townie to me.

On the other hand, Sir Tornado's vote looks terrible to me. I wouldn't even consider it metagaming. And it's certainly not legitimate.

[Sir Tornado]

There's a reason that Patrick withdrew from the game. It was to avoid exactly the kind of behavior you're exhibiting right now.

Patrick withdrew because he heard something he shouldn't have. I haven't heard anything like that. I am merely speculating. There is a difference.

Kravhen: Now, that you are back, can you explain your reasons for voting me yesterday? (I am merely asking this out of curiousity rather than anything else, because obv that vote was from a pro-town player)

[ChronX]

/ooc I don't think SirTornado gets the difference between metagaming, and crosses-the-line behavior. Examining the way a player plays to see if they have tells when they are scum is perfectly acceptable. Finding out that someone knew something from irregular/illegal contact, and then trying to draw a conclusion on the basis of that, isn't...Patrick should never have posted what he did, but the rest of us should have pretended that post was never heard, as a judge would instruct a jury to do. TBH, I blame the mod for some of this...Patrick should have been instructed to never post in the thread again, and if DS was going to be replaced, replace both at once to obscure what was going on.

Furthermore in regard to SirT, he is now asking Kravhen to post after-death thoughts from his original role. Isn't that prohibited by the rule "nothing except a bah! post after you die"? Of course, again, I think the mod is making a huge error in subbing a dead player into this game. Sometimes that can work, but this game is a little out of hand already, what with the blatant crossgame lynch successful attempt by ABR and the game revelation to patrick.

[kravhen]

There's a reason that Patrick withdrew from the game. It was to avoid exactly the kind of behavior you're exhibiting right now.

Patrick withdrew because he heard something he shouldn't have. I haven't heard anything like that. I am merely speculating. There is a difference.

Kravhen: Now, that you are back, can you explain your reasons for voting me yesterday? (I am merely asking this out of curiousity rather than anything else, because obv that vote was from a pro-town player)

If I remember correctly it was because of your misrepresentation and I think your being a bit more lay-back inactive at some point. When I re-read this thread as a whole I can confirm you this.

Also what's this about patrick withdrawing because he "heard" stuff?

My gut feeling thinks Erotomachia is scum. How much weight can you afford to put on a gut feeling? I don't know, yet. I'll see in my reread and in the future if he's worthy of a case on him.

[pickemgenius]

Pickem: I don't get what you're saying. My main complaint about VI's is that they're unscrutable. Now that we have a competent player in that role, we will actually have behavior to examine. How is that far from the truth?

You were basically saying that if kravhen acts like he did previously (we know his alignment), and if he does it again, he must be a townie again...


That's not neccessarily true....

[NabakovNabakov]

Pickem: You read into me too much. All I said is that we now have a basis to form an opinion. I only mentioned the meta-game as an aside. I don't propose to rigidly adhere to it (you know I'm not a huge meta-gamer), I would treat it as I would a meta from a seperate game (looking for common tells and behavioral tics). I'm not sure how smart it would be to give wieght to differences in who New Kravhen defends or attacks (as opposed to Old Kravhen), it's too obvious WIFOM and feels vaguely unethical.

[pickemgenius]

Pickem: You read into me too much. All I said is that we now have a basis to form an opinion. I only mentioned the meta-game as an aside. I don't propose to rigidly adhere to it (you know I'm not a huge meta-gamer), I would treat it as I would a meta from a seperate game (looking for common tells and behavioral tics). I'm not sure how smart it would be to give wieght to differences in who New Kravhen defends or attacks (as opposed to Old Kravhen), it's too obvious WIFOM and feels vaguely unethical.

I go on these akward/weird questioning phases sometimes.

[kravhen]

I suggest not comparing old and new kravhen at all. Why? Well I read this thread too, yknow, so I see what you write, yknow, and so I know you'll be comparing me now. I fear I'll grow paranoid at some point, or feel "obligated" to stay congruent with my old self at all times or people will yell SCUMMZ!

" But kravhen, why would you feel obligated ? "

Pshht. Because I am town, and I would hate to see another mislynch on day 2, especially now that deadscilent, who was a suspect to me, turned out to be innocent, which narrows down my scum list (hey im repeating myself now). It's a townie's duty to go after scum without being hella scummy, because that would just confuse the town. Deadscilent failed that, I hope to do better.

Erotomachia, what's your thoughts on the matter? You dont have to agree with me, different opinions are fine.. just... talk.

[ChronX]

I suggest not comparing old and new kravhen at all.

Looks like all anyone wanted to talk about was that, and now we all took your advice and are mum.

I'm going to try to reread the game tonight and do something to stimulate discussion. Like ask for 10 more replacements....

[Blue Zebra]

Vote: Erotomachia

[NabakovNabakov]

^Looks like somebody got prodded


Has Theo just completely dissappeared? We got half a summary and nothing else.

*Shrug*

[Blue Zebra]

Theopor's last post on mafiascum was but two hours ago.

[Atticus]

Prods will be sent.

[theopor_COD]

This thread for some reason dissapeared from my watched topics list. I'm in 10 games so I tend to only look their, I can only apologise, it's number one priority.

I'm reading my original thoughts and will add to them, I've forgotten everything.