Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[Hieirama]

Wow nice job guys O.O

Garmr, so does that mean that if a Mason claims they can't be Nked?

The night-kill is odd. Scum isn't trying to kill the towniest apparently, since BBT was read more suspiciously then people like Herr and Dwlee.
I don't think BBT PR-slipped, did they?

[mykonian]

good. No go be a proper townie and make something happen. I don't know why you are asking us while you can read the thread and have opinions.

I would really appreciate it if today for once we didn't wait for the deadline to be around before we had any sense of commitment to anything.

[Keyser Söze]

herrcombs posts the first vote on Haschel Cedricson's wagon (herrcombs earns a town-point here. The focus was on Garmr and Lalendra):

Spoiler:

I didn't realize that we have less than four IRL days left before the deadline. We should probably consolidate, yeah?

From what I understand, several people don't want to take sides in the Garmr vs Lalendra thing. I can understand the desire to let their PR claims sort themselves out. If I had to compromise (someone who's not Garmr/Lalendra/Hieirama), I'd pick Haschel. It seems like he's popping in this game every so often only to take little prods at people without building serious reads or analyzing the game to any degree of depth. He's flown under my radar all game but I could definitely see that as a scum tactic.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Haschel Cedricson

This was the VC at the time:
[3] Garmr - Meanmelter, mykonian, Lalendra [L-3]
[2] Lalendra - herrcombs, Haschel Cedricson [L-4]
[1] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]

My vote on Haschel Cedricson (post 746).

Dierfire opposes the Haschel Cedricson wagon/reasons:

Anyway, the Haschel votes:
I don't really want to lynch him for that vote on Lalendra. She's still suspicious enough that I don't see that as a Mafia player trying to lynch quickly.

I am pleased with the compromise haschel lynch. I can join that in due time.

Why did mykonian not vote straight away? Was he happy with the Garmr/Lalendra wagons? (Yes, no).

We gonna lynch Garmr today or walk around Dier and Lala

Meanmelter makes no comment on the Haschel Cedricson wagon but supports the Garmr lynch.

Hieirama opposes the Haschel Cedricson wagon, supports the Dierfire lynch:

I don't like the Haschel lynch if he's not here to react to his wagon or claim. :/
I'm slightly Townreading Garmr and Lala.
So I guess I can agree with a Dier lynch. How many votes?

Huh, okay.

vote: dierfire

[3] Garmr - Meanmelter, mykonian, Lalendra [L-3]
[2] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee, Hieirama [L-4]
[2] Haschel Cedricson - herrcombs, Keyser Söze [L-4]
[1] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson [L-5]
Not Voting - Dierfire, Dwlee99, Garmr

Dierfire states he town-reads me and herrcombs and appears uncertain about the Haschel Cedricson wagon:

We're short on time. I really don't believe Lalendra's claim, and her addressing me in the third person telling me that I'd see her point if I read my ISO is not really an appropriate response to my challenge. My strong preference is to lynch Lalendra.

VOTE: Lalendra

If we can't make this happen, I'm not confident that any of the current wagons are on Mafia. I do believe that Herrcombs and Keyser are Town, so the Haschel wagon does not seem to be driven by Mafia, and I'm not quite sure what to make of that.

Garmr makes a 'survival' vote on Lalandra (Lalandra is now L-3):

Welp it's my death here if I don't jump on a wagon and deir and hasecal aren't on my scum list so.

VOTE: Lalandra

[Keyser Söze]

herrcombs posts good reasons to stay off the Lalendra wagon, but states that he is open to her lynch:

I'm torn. I'd really prefer to let the Lalendra doc-claim resolve itself, but looking through her ISO, I still have to admit she looks really scummy... But I'm honestly worried about the composition of her wagon. I feel way better about sticking to Haschel. He's been a non-factor in this game and I don't see much in the way of town motivation or analysis from him. Plus, he hasn't claimed doc, so yeah. Call me a coward, but I still don't like the idea of lynching potential PRs.

If it means lynching Lalendra or going without a lynch, I'll choose the former, but I still feel really uneasy about her wagon...

mykonian votes Haschel Cedricson (Haschel Cedricson is now L-3) town-point for mykonian:

vote haschel

Not sure why you are giving him a free pass.

Garmr reads the emerging Haschel Cedricson wagon as a scum-counter wagon. I can see town-Garmr thinking this:

Also it looks like the wagon on me is dropping because in the end Lale will get lynched over me it's moved to haseacl as a last chance of keeping her alive. People want her alive but she isn't town read by the majority don't you think that is strange?

Dwlee99 agrees with the possibilty:

Are you saying that scum are trying to counter wagon haschel to keep her alive? That could be possible.

Garmr is sold on the Lalendra lynch (post 797, post 800).

herrcombs unvotes Haschel Cedricson and votes Lalendra (Lalendra is now L-2). The timing of this unvote/vote is bad:

Fuck it. You're actually right -- a Lala lynch gives us a hell of a lot more information than a Haschel lynch.

We'd better be right about this, or else I'm flipping my desk.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra L-2

BlueBloodedToffee against the Lalendra lynch: (post 802).

[herrcombs]

Feeling better about Keyser being town. Myko can be town until I reread things to make sure, same with DWL. Not sure if the Dier hammer makes him town or if he's just trying to buy town points.

Uneasy about the NK, either scum is trying to WIFOM us or Lalendra is mafia. Not entirely sure why BBT was killed -- I have suspicions, but I want to reread to make sure first.

Who did you protect last night, Lalendra?

[Keyser Söze]

herrcombs still open to the Haschel Cedricson lynch:

I'll be fine to lynch Lala or Haschel today. I think a Dier lynch would also give us quite a bit of information, but I'm not as comfortable about my read of him. He's making me uncomfortable for the same reasons as Haschel.

Meanmelter strongly against the Lalendra lynch:

Yea, no. I'm not voting Lala. You'll have to find your two votes somewhere else. This wagon is fucking awful btw

Would you vote for either Haschel or Dier, meanmelter?

Would you vote for either Haschel or Dier, meanmelter?

If I had to pick? Haschel. I'm really disliking his activity and I am not finding it townie tbh.

Meanmelter does NOT vote Haschel Cedricson.

[4] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson, Dierfire, Garmr, herrcombs [L-2]
[2] Haschel Cedricson - Keyser Söze, mykonian [L-4]
[2] Garmr - Meanmelter, Lalendra [L-4]
[2] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee, Hieirama [L-4]
Not Voting - Dwlee99


BlueBloodedToffee makes a crucial vote:

I'm not voting a Doc.

VOTE: Haschel

Didn't realise a Hashcel wagon HAD taken off. That is 100% today's lynch.

The Garmr and Dierfire wagons are now dead.

Garmr REALLY wants the Lalendra lynch: post 829, post 830, post 837, post 842, post 847, post 854.
This does make me feel that Garmr didn't know Haschel Cedricson was scum.

Dwlee99's vote makes it L-2 (post 843)

[4] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson, Dierfire, Garmr, herrcombs [L-2]
[4] Haschel Cedricson - Keyser Söze, mykonian, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee [L-2]
[2] Garmr - Meanmelter, Lalendra [L-4]
[1] Dierfire - Hieirama [L-5]

[At this point I feel the Haschel Cedricson lynch was now inevitable, so no town-cred points here gents]:

herrcombs makes it L-1 (post 885)

Dierfire hammers (post 890).


I do not like Hieirama or Meanmelter's posting/movement/activity around the Haschel Cedricson lynch

[Dierfire]

I wouldn't be surprised if all players on the Haschel wagon were Town. I'm still reading Mykonian, Keyser, and Herrcombs as Town, and I'm back to reading DWL as Town after wrestling with that one for a while.
So, I'm looking at Hieirama, Lalendra, and MM.
Reading through Haschel's ISO, I note that he was very inactive with his votes.

Spoiler: Votes

RVS on Herrcombs in 9, removed in
Votes Lalendra in 334, stays there for the rest of D1.
Votes Lalendra in 664, stays there for the rest of D2.

To me, that pattern suggests that he felt the game to be well in hand. The D2 vote on Lalendra is tough for me because it looked good for a bus, but it's unclear to me why he would be so excited for a bus while being so unenthusiastic about any alternative wagons.
So, I think that I want to vote for Hieirama. The reasoning for staying off of the Haschel wagon in 764 is weak, and none of the reads really connect; reading both Lalendra and Garmr as Town should open up a whole host of questions as to where the Mafia are distributed on those wagons, but Hieirama ducks that analysis.
I also need to read over MM.

VOTE: Hieirama

[Dierfire]

My connection died and I missed a line: Garmr needs attention as well, but if Haschel was lurking because the game seemed to be under control, then I would expect most wagons that we've seen to have been on Town players, and Garmr's wagon has been fairly consistently present.

[mykonian]

What's stopping you from being proactive TODAY hieirama?

Well, the Day was kind of over already.


That quickhammer though

:siren: BADPOST ALERT :siren:

this isn't distancing.

new vote plz dier.

[Dierfire]

Do you think that his vote on Lalendra was, then?
I'm having difficulty seeing Mafia players on Haschel's wagon, so if not Lalendra or Hieirama then it seems to me that MM and Garmr would have to be Mafia.
Also, does Haschel's play not suggest to you that he was fairly comfortable with the direction of the game? I'm not sure why he'd be so inactive while his partner's wagon was going so strong.

[mykonian]

look at this, you are thinking!


I don't understand why you think there wasn't a bus though. Haschel was dead weight. If he was a scumbud, at some point you'd cut him.

[Dierfire]

I could see Herrcombs's shuffle as a bus if Lalendra is Town, I suppose.
With regard to him being dead weight, that's only a problem for the Mafia if his inactivity hurt them, and it's not clear to me that it did.

[mykonian]

you didn't think he'd get lynched for it?

[Garmr]

look at this, you are thinking!


I don't understand why you think there wasn't a bus though. Haschel was dead weight. If he was a scumbud, at some point you'd cut him.

Hier's town, herr's likely town, dwlee is town (obv). Lalendra interaction is antagonistic but at least big enough that it could be distancing. Soze is town.

Dier/garmr are the two votes that fire the counterwagon back up, dier first, garmr second. Obv requires second attention. And lets not forget our charming garmr also wanted to prevent this haschel lynch at all cost


for now.

vote garmr

logic does not compute. Also myko in the words of nacho.

@Nacho - thoughts on Garmr and the WK thought I had.

Intentionally not unvoting Ciara while asking this.

I don't think it's very likely. I read a little bit into Garmr's games as scum to see if he plays like this as scum (he doesn't); I also don't think that the condescension in the "I'm the only not idiot" in the attitude is faked and don't think it would feature so predominantly if we were trying to lynch a townie as a counterwagon to Garmr!scum trying to lynch a townie.

[mykonian]

I don't need your own perception of your meta, mine is sufficient

[Garmr]

herrcombs still open to the Haschel Cedricson lynch:

I'll be fine to lynch Lala or Haschel today. I think a Dier lynch would also give us quite a bit of information, but I'm not as comfortable about my read of him. He's making me uncomfortable for the same reasons as Haschel.

Meanmelter strongly against the Lalendra lynch:

Yea, no. I'm not voting Lala. You'll have to find your two votes somewhere else. This wagon is fucking awful btw

Would you vote for either Haschel or Dier, meanmelter?

Would you vote for either Haschel or Dier, meanmelter?

If I had to pick? Haschel. I'm really disliking his activity and I am not finding it townie tbh.

Meanmelter does NOT vote Haschel Cedricson.

[4] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson, Dierfire, Garmr, herrcombs [L-2]
[2] Haschel Cedricson - Keyser Söze, mykonian [L-4]
[2] Garmr - Meanmelter, Lalendra [L-4]
[2] Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee, Hieirama [L-4]
Not Voting - Dwlee99


BlueBloodedToffee makes a crucial vote:

I'm not voting a Doc.

VOTE: Haschel

Didn't realise a Hashcel wagon HAD taken off. That is 100% today's lynch.

The Garmr and Dierfire wagons are now dead.

Garmr REALLY wants the Lalendra lynch: post 829, post 830, post 837, post 842, post 847, post 854.
This does make me feel that Garmr didn't know Haschel Cedricson was scum.

Dwlee99's vote makes it L-2 (post 843)

[4] Lalendra - Haschel Cedricson, Dierfire, Garmr, herrcombs [L-2]
[4] Haschel Cedricson - Keyser Söze, mykonian, BlueBloodedToffee, Dwlee [L-2]
[2] Garmr - Meanmelter, Lalendra [L-4]
[1] Dierfire - Hieirama [L-5]

[At this point I feel the Haschel Cedricson lynch was now inevitable, so no town-cred points here gents]:

herrcombs makes it L-1 (post 885)

Dierfire hammers (post 890).


I do not like Hieirama or Meanmelter's posting/movement/activity around the Haschel Cedricson lynch

I would be willing to vote meanmelter over heirama. I have made points on him but people have been playing it off as not valid because he is voting me.

VOTE: meanmelter

[Garmr]

I don't need your own perception of your meta, mine is sufficient

It's really not.

[Garmr]

@myko all your going to do is vote me all day then switch at the last second until I'm lynched.

[mykonian]

shrug, your lynch has to happen at some point if I want to win

[Garmr]

that's a mafia win condition through myko to lynch town.

[Hieirama]

Dang

Myko, if you're town then how are you so

certain

Garmr is scum? :/

[Keyser Söze]

Garmr, so does that mean that if a Mason claims they can't be Nked?

Town masons are neither lynchproof or bulletproof, but if/when the Town Mason claims, they will be basically confirmed town.

The night-kill is odd. Scum isn't trying to kill the

towniest

apparently, since BBT was read more suspiciously then people like Herr and Dwlee.
I don't think BBT PR-slipped, did they?

Who is the "towniest" player? ("Herr and Dwlee"?)
Yes, scum aren't interested in killing the 'towniest' townies - they want to kill PR's.

What are your thoughts on the development of the Haschel Cedricson D2 wagon?



I am also curious to hear Meanmelter's thoughts on the D2 wagons.

[Keyser Söze]

Ok, perfect time to look at Haschel Cedricson's ISO. In particular his town (POSITIVE) and scum (NEGATIVE) reads:

POSITIVE

Gamr

I think the softclaim actually makes the claim more likely.

mykonian

I like Mykonian's methods and don't see scum motivation behind them, with the caveat that I don't care for his reaction to Garmr's claim.

herrcombs

Starting at 84 his posts get much better in his interaction with myko. I also like his reaction to the Garmr situation.

Dierfire

Pro-town on both, albeit stronger for Dier. Dier's reads are well-founded and tend to go in similar directions to mine.

NEGATIVE

Dwlee99

This is a horrible misrepresentation.

herrcombs

Herr calls out Dwlee for manipulating mykonian's words, but then votes for mykonian for tone reasons. Don't like this one bit.

Hieirama

This is scummy.

:siren: BADPOST ALERT :siren:

Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either.

Keyser Söze and Gamr

I don't like Keyser's rolefishing or the fact that Garmr bites on it.

Keyser's ISO analysis feels like a stretch and I don't care for BBT's 399 at all.

Lalendra

Then don't vote for him, pressure him.

Vote: Lalendra

Did a quick skim. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.

Vote: Lalendra

.

I felt like Haschel Cedricson gave out many views/reads on behaviour of many players, but primarily focused only on Lalendra and Hieirama.
Lalendra wins a town point for being the wagon that Haschel Cedricson pushed D1/D2.
Haschel Cedricson did not vote for anyone else he'd given a negative remark on.
Interestingly, I could not find a read/opinion that Haschel Cedricson gave on Meanmelter.

[Garmr]

I'm trying to set up a situation that will get lale killed if she's town by scum or lynched as scum or forces scum to protect a town power role to keep lale alive if she's scum

[Garmr]

Basically I'm trying to force a scenario were she gets confirmed or forces her as scum to get lynched or forces scum to leave a confirmed town alive.