LoL eSports Discussion

[zoraster]

I could be totally wrong, but Fnatic Janna may be the most used worlds skin. I feel like I see it a lot, and it helps that Janna has been in the meta a lot.

[mykonian]

well, this will be a whole new challenge.

We can talk about xpeke's worlds buff all we want, but so far he's been able to hold his lane and be a utility, just like in the EU LCS. He has been able to do that vs the likes of godv (lol), nagne (lol), bjergsen (it's still just tsm) and his biggest test was maple. This is going to be entirely something else, whether they put easyhoon up there or faker. Further, xpeke's issues weren't that he was bad overall, it was that he could be taken out of his comfort zone and look bad. He has played 3.5 champions here. Orianna a bunch, a couple of anivia games, some viktor and a tf game. Orianna and tf are known champs for him, viktor he was good on during the season. The new one is anivia and shanba had an insight on that, which I think is right on the mark. This is xpeke's azir. It fills the same slot in the teamcomps and he can play it. But all in all, this is a patch job. Easyhoon mostly, but faker as well, are known azir players. Might play a role, may not, but I have trouble to see xpeke as a new man this world championship given the way he's played in games. It's still the same as in eulcs, soaz is good, mithy has amazing hights and good synergy with amazing, and niels does his job and then some. Xpeke has to stay out of the way and provide utility.

Now wolf vs mithy isn't a contest, but bengi vs amazing clearly is. Even if soaz can hold his own top (and we might just see another lane getting snowballed on him, who knows), the question remains if amazing and xpeke can even get the game to the situation where niels is allowed to carry.

IDK guys, 2 of origin's players can look amazing and can completely drop off, if mithy and soaz have 5 straight amazing games I could see them having a shot, but I feel it takes some miraculous pick bans where skt hold the cards IMO,and them not playing as well as they can for origin to have a shot here. Could happen, but looks seriously hard.

[zoraster]

On the other hand, myko, it's pretty hard for teams to ban out players in this environment (though disabling gragas may alter things).

Honestly, I think looking at things from a player by player basis is missing the difficulty that face Origen.

[mykonian]

yes, it's just that the argumentation is a bit easier that way

I don't think xpeke has been amazing. I think he's been quite good at hiding that he's the weak spot. I think bengi is having a great tournament and that he's making his already good team look really amazing.

[mykonian]

cause i've seen people bash Season 1 worlds as not counting.

Clearly season 2 worlds is more alike season 5 than season 1.

Yes as broseidon mentioned, "the west won". The whole top was "the west" because the east had barely been playing the game and was hardly represented. It was a tournament like any other but with the given name of world championship.

So if you are in the church of "the west" (before we forget that even in season 1, na came with the hype, and didn't deliver), praise that there's a line that says that fnatic won the first but lets not talk all that much about it, lest people might actually start discussing it with you.

[BROseidon]

I think of it the same way as some college teams claim to have been "national champions" in football in the 1800s. Possibly true, but with little relation to the current game.

That's like saying that Pete Sampras's titles don't count because he would be shit now.

It's a shitty metric.

[zoraster]

No, it's saying that the game is vastly different, almost to the point of almost not being the same game. And the competition was much, much smaller. Similar to how a season that ended 3-0 was a national championship title.

[BROseidon]

Yes as broseidon mentioned, "the west won". The whole top was "the west" because the east had barely been playing the game and was hardly represented. It was a tournament like any other but with the given name of world championship.

Naw, it was the season 1 world championship. Season 1 happened to be when the game was still nascent, and still hadn't caught on in a bunch of places. There was a solo queue season 1 that went with it (that was far more competitive than now. My plat nowadays means much less than my s1 gold).

If Japan becomes the dominant LoL force in 5 years, we aren't going to invalidate seasons 1-4 because Japan didn't have their own competitive scene, for instance.

[BROseidon]

No, it's saying that the game is vastly different, almost to the point of not being the same game.

Yes, but this literally applies to every sport.

[BROseidon]

Like, esports changes faster, I guess, but every sport looks vastly different now than it did even 20-30 years ago.

[zoraster]

It applies to every sport, but only so much.

I mean, I'm not making the argument that Fnatic didn't win Season 1, that's stupid. I'm just saying that the achievement of doing so is so, so much less. More on par with winning a Heroes of the STorm competition or something. Still cool, still part of history. Just, you know.

[mykonian]

Naw, it was the season 1 world championship. Season 1 happened to be when the game was still nascent, and still hadn't caught on in a bunch of places.

Say you had a competition which only Canadian and American teams could participate in. They can call it a worlds series all they like. But would you call them world champions?

[BROseidon]

Naw, it was the season 1 world championship. Season 1 happened to be when the game was still nascent, and still hadn't caught on in a bunch of places.

Say you had a competition which only Canadian and American teams could participate in. They can call it a worlds series all they like. But would you call them world champions?

Yes.

SEA was also there. They got dunked. Except for that one Morde game.

[quadz08]

Naw, it was the season 1 world championship. Season 1 happened to be when the game was still nascent, and still hadn't caught on in a bunch of places.

Say you had a competition which only Canadian and American teams could participate in. They can call it a worlds series all they like. But would you call them world champions?

you're asking americans this, we do it in at least three different sports anually

[mykonian]

Naw, it was the season 1 world championship. Season 1 happened to be when the game was still nascent, and still hadn't caught on in a bunch of places.

Say you had a competition which only Canadian and American teams could participate in. They can call it a worlds series all they like. But would you call them world champions?

you're asking americans this, we do it in at least three different sports anually

well, that explains it then

[Venmar]

They were the best team in the world at the time. And there was a decent enough amount of competition. TSM and especially AAA both turned up big time as well. You can't discount season 1 worlds when two finalists are still in top echelon of played still actively playing. Season 1 AAA and Fnatic both had players that are in these semi finals. Ergo, top players in the world at the height of League's popularity were active season 1 too.

Season 1, 100% counts.

The argument usually boils down to "There were no korean or chinese teams, ergo it wasn't a REAL competition".

[Espeonage]

Which is dumb.

[mykonian]

The argument usually boils down to "There were no korean or chinese teams, ergo it wasn't a REAL competition".

Well, consider that after that season 1, china, korea and taiwan had some catching up to do. The west had just more experience.

And yet, no European, nor American team made it to the finals since. You can count their semifinalists including this worlds on one hand.

There seems to be some merit to that argument.

It seems very likely that the only reason there was an all European final in the first "world" championship because the whole world wasn't there to play for that final.

[BROseidon]

Uh, a European team has a very real shot of making finals again this year...

[BROseidon]

Guess that means the competition this year wasn't "real" either.

[mykonian]

No, but lets not soil that achievement by pointing to season 1. If either of the teams make it to the final, that would be huge. It's already big that two European teams made it to the semi's, nothing stolen there either.

Say fnatic makes it. I'd say that this would be their best tournament ever. I'd be pretty sad if someone pointed at season 1 in stead then. And that is taking into account that the game simply advances through time, so not just saying that they were more skilled than then (duh) but that this result would have the most value. They are facing the top of the world now, teams that have practiced for years, played through regular seasons and playoffs and who all try to peak at this moment.

[quadz08]

I don't think Myko's trying to say Season 1 Worlds don't count - merely that the competition was less challenging, and thus perhaps means less in terms of how quality that win was. It still counts as winning worlds - at that time, they were, in fact, the best team in the world. That was just a less difficult thing to accomplish at that point.

[mykonian]

well the world was a lot smaller

So I feel the less one talks about it the better it is. It looks good in the history books and someday people are going to forget the circumstances.

Again, I think season 2 is much more similar to season 5 in terms of setup and quality etc than season 2 is to season 1. Worlds changed through the years obviously, but the big gap is between season 1 and 2.

[BROseidon]

Looks like skt is going to start easyhoon against Origen, which is probably the right call. Origen is going to have a hard time because of easyhoon's azir

[BROseidon]

I didn't think of that when I picked Origen to upset skt in mh pickem :/