California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)

[Mr. Grey]

Vote Count:

11 to lynch.

Skruffs: 6 (Cogito Ergo Sum, Dragon Phoenix, foolinc, LoudmouthLee, Oman, VitaminR)
LoudmouthLee: 3 (Adele, Skruffs, Thesp)
Mgm: 2 (jeep, logicticus)
PlaysWithSquirrels: 2 (Talitha, xyzzy)
Cubsfan4ever: 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)
jeep: 1 (Mgm)
logicticus: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
PookyTheMagicalBear: 1 (PlaysWithSquirrels)
xyzzy: 1 (Zindaras)

[jeep]

EBWOP:

vote: MGM

, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, Skruffs, xyzzy, [All players not on this list elsewhere], Dragon Phoenix, No Lynch, jeep

[Zindaras]

If he changed it in immediately the next post, then it would be scummy, but without agreement on opinions, then there'll never be a lynch, unless by some amazing coincidence a majority of players agree at the very beginning.

I do not understand this post at all.

Yay thesp. ANd, because of your post, yay pooky. I snickered at it.
I was very impressed with THesp's play in Meadows of Sorrow and I feel he is a great player who will bring a lot to this game. For all the reasons you said above, too, minus the ""Are you trying to get into his good graces with a generic contentless message like "yay thesp"?" part. I'm not a butt kisser. (See former discussion with lml re: friendships nad mafia, playing of)

I think the more important point is that you posted an analysis based on

play

on everyone else, but not on Thesp. So why did you not analyze Thesp's play?

As a complete aside, I'm loving this Condorcet voting. I think it adds a lot to the game, discussion-wise.

Vote: xyzzy

, jeep, LoudmouthLee, [Skruffs, foolinc], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, Cubsfan4ever, logicticus, Mastermind of Sin, Oman, PlaysWithSquirrels, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, Thesp, Thestatusquo], [VitaminR, Dragon Phoenix, Mgm], No Lynch, Zindaras

[xyzzy]

I do not understand this post at all.

Yeah ,it was poorly worded. >.>

Basically, I was saying that it's okay for people to change their opinions on the game, and to tell someone that this has to take a long time in a deadlined game is to ask that they help the scum.

[Zindaras]

Basically, I was saying that it's okay for people to change their opinions on the game, and to tell someone that this has to take a long time in a deadlined game is to ask that they help the scum.

This is completely besides the point. I asked him to elaborate, I didn't call him scum or said he wasn't allowed to change his list. But if you change your list, then you have to have a reason for it, and I asked him for that reason.

[Mr. Grey]

Thestatusquo has not posted in over 72 hours, and will be replaced as soon as a replacement is found.

[Adele]

I disagree with Jeep about his thing against people explaining why they don't think they'd like to do a certain thing (ooh manipulation). I have a right to say "I don't like mushrooms" and if anyone here stops eating mushrooms because of it, that's their stupid fault.

I dont get this at all, Adele. Whether or not the dice rolls are good are bad are not even germane to this debate. You accused him of defending MoS, he refutes it and then you respond with this meaningless statement.

Whether or not dice rolls are good or bad are a part of this debate. I voted LmL because I believed he was defending MoS' bad play. "He refutes it" is a bit far - I don't think he attained actual refutation (I considered his earlier posts vague and ambiguous), but what the heck. I decided, due to his stance on dice rolls, not to unvote him at that time.

So, let's assume I am scum 1 or scum 2. Where are the second and third votes on logicticus?

I wasn't actually accusing you of either of those. I was posing hypotheticals plays. I'd like to point out, though, that it's not a dichotomy between me figuring out what you're doing and you being innocent. You could be scum with a gameplan I don't know.

Making my motivations obvious is not anti-game. It's allowing you to see what motivations I have without having to make wild guesses.

And... what game do you think we're playing? Wouldn't giving people your login so they can access your account and see your role pm allow them to see your motivations without wild guesses?
Are you gonna do it? No, because it's against the rule.
Why is it against the rules? Because it's anti-game.

Random voting is never helpful to the town. It only serves to distract the town as they chase after people for making "random" votes. My point is, you cannot say that I am scum based on this. The logic doesn't work out, at all. If I am scum because I tried to make a truly random vote, then I am scum in every game, and this is already proven false. It doesn't matter whether or not you like the tactic

I'd like "Random voting is never helpful to the town" noted for the record, first of all.
Say you were a major-ass lurker. You just never posted anything of use. Ever. Whether town or scum. If challenged, you'd say... well, exactly what you said in the abovequoted post. I'd vote you until you changed. I'd lynch you (when better lynches didn't present themselves) until you changed. It's called metagaming, and it's what you do to the metascummy.

What is to be gained by "faking" a random vote? What is "contrived" about it? What would I, as scum, be planning that would require that I "fake" a random vote, when I could've just complained about not being able to use dice tags and done something else?

Well, for one thing, it's given you plenty to talk about without commenting on other players much (you can deduce from this that I don't think much of the remainder of your post).

In any case, like I say, just because we don't know your play doesn't mean you don't have one.

Re: Jeep... I do also kinda think he could be scum. I just haven't felt the townie conviction from his posts, I guess.

QFT

Scum 1 and scum 2 could arrange before the game to "random" vote scum 3 so that anyone else voting scum 3 would be attacked.
Scum 1 and scum 2 could arrange before the game to "random" vote townie 3 so that they could unvote and defend the townie upon the third vote so, should that that townie ever die, they'll be considered likely GGs be association.

And so on.

Do you think either of the scenarios you've presented here have potentially obtained?

I don't undestand that sentence, I'm afraid; If you're asking if I'm saying one of them is the case here, the answer's "I don't think so". If you're asking if I think they are really possible plays in games generally, then yes, absolutely.

Everyone in this game has the same chances of being scum. To say "Yay Thesp! You have a lot to bring to the table here!" basically means, to me, that Scruffs is giving some sort of power to thesp... The feeling of Gospel.

Have people become more fraidy-cat in the last couple months? Paranoia's all good and well, but "Oh no! This person's been complimented we're all going to LOSE FREE WILL to think for ourselveses!"
Come on.

At the moment I'm mildly distrusting MoS, jeep, and LmL a little bit.

vote: Mastermind of Sin, Jeep, LmL, Cubsfan4ever, Thesp, PWS, [everyone else], no lynch.

[jeep]

Okay, I'm here and not planning on leaving.

vote: Skruffs

, MGM, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, xyzzy, [All players not on this list elsewhere], Dragon Phoenix, No Lynch, jeep

[Mr. Grey]

Tamuz replaces Thestatusquo.

[Mgm]

The only reason MOS's random vote is 'contrived' is because the mod wouldn't let him use dice tags. He could be faking, but so could every other random vote that can't be verified to be random.

[Adele]

The only reason MOS's random vote is 'contrived' is because the mod wouldn't let him use dice tags. He could be faking, but so could every other random vote that can't be verified to be random.

Who is this aimed at? And, what's it got to do with anything? The rules of the game are what they are. Mod=God.

[Mgm]

It's to no one in particular, although I'd like to see the people who are voting MOS for it listening more than anyone else. The comment was sparked by your post though.

[Mgm]

The elaboration Zindaras asked for in post 213; I'm afraid it's not really spectacular:

VitaminR - Seems bloodthirsty in general, has already voted(and unvoted) 4 different people. Seems to be making a lot of accusations to see if they stick. Then there's this quote:

I agree. On top of that, we don't have any real evidence that Skruffs has actively overlooked Thesp. If Thesp had posted something suspicious or ambiguously suspicious, it would be more important. I've greeted plenty of people with that kind of enthusiasm.

Not something I'd worry about, but since it came two posts after he first voted Skruffs, and this posts doesn't appear to make him change that vote. He also says: "it just didn't seem that significant to me whether jeep was inconsistent." I believe inconsistencies are very significant, especially with experienced people.

Adele - Adele seems to be on par with most of my thinking. I can't see anything scummy about that, especially since I'm following much of the same lines. If I called her scummy, I couldn't justify my own actions.

CES - While I have a grudge on CES from the previous game, I've seen nothing but solid play from him this time round. Nothing at all to suggest he's scum, contrary to that last game. I'm confident enough in his innocence to leave him alone for today - at least until more information surfaces.

PWS - PWS is in the 'other' group because I'm not getting much of a read on him. He asked questions in the few posts he made and seems to be generally digging for evidence. He also seems to notice that the whole dice thing with regard to MOS is a null tell, so I'm very slightly leaning towards town on him. All in all-townish behavior, but not enough to put him in the townish group.

[PlaysWithSquirrels]

Skruffs, I focussed on the part with Thesp specifically because it seemed to lack content.

@PWS, what makes you think there is no information to be gained from attacking MoS on his actions so far?

Specifically, what do you define as information?

For example I've already learned who is willing to join me on an attack on MoS based on my reasoning so far and who isn't. Why would you classify this as "not information"?

If you're asking me to believe that you attacked MoS to see who else would try to opportunistically join you, I guess that isn't too farfetched. If this is true, I don't like when townies pull stunts like this because it confunders the rest of the town while providing you potentially minimal information. You're an incredible analyst, Pooks, you don't need to pull stunts like this.

Secondly, in general, I'm not a very verbose player. Never have been. I'm very blunt and to the point. This doesn't mean that I'm not contributing anything.

Third, I'm falling behind in the thread slowly. School just started, I've got a lot of frat things I have to deal with because rush week has started. This game is amazingly star-studded, but I've got another of these "post everyday" games over on MT plus a small array of other minis. I'm trying to catch up, but unfortunately it might be better if I'm replaced =/.

[Skruffs]

DP, no offense meant, but you are still stuck on page five.

Cubsfan4ever: Few posts and short - consisting of nothing more than some defence of Skruffs. I maintain that he gives off a scum smell if Skruffs turns out to be innocent. Even worse, with his lack of contribution he is already giving off a scum smell now. IGMEOY, likely scum

Skruffs: his defences so far have not really convinced me. Still noted down as likely scum.

You are voting me, and if I come up innocent, Cubs is very likely scum. But you didn't address, what if I come up scum, as you seem to be so sure I am (based on your votes)? Does that make cubs likely innocent? It's not hard for me to theorize that you only did one half of the equation because you already

know I'm not scum

. Error of omission.
I love how you can say "Skruffs hasn't convinced me", but you don't, say, explain why not, or give me the option to answer questions you have. No, you'd prefer to just say I haven't done a good enough job, and move on from there. You were more than willing to hop onto a quick wagon when you had the chance, and now your 'player posts' refer to not one, but -

VitaminR

: made a positive contribution to the game in post 74, picking Scrubbs apart. Likely townie, even if he votes for me. Pretty strong town vibes.
Oman: since my previous analysis mainly discussing with Skruffs. Comes over as neutral to me.

Zindaras

: [don't know what to make of him. Inconsequential posting, attacked Scrubbs vehemently onyl to drop him the moment the wagon gets underway, to switch to LML on gut. Hm. IGMEOY. ] His more recent posts taste town to me.

PlaysWithSquirrels

: contributes little, and gives the impression to try to stay under the radar whilst keeping to the rules. Upgraded to scummy.

Cubsfan4ever

: Few posts and short - consisting of nothing more than some defence of Skruffs. I maintain that he gives off a scum smell if Skruffs turns out to be innocent. Even worse, with his lack of contribution he is already giving off a scum smell now. IGMEOY, likely scum

Four players who your opinion of them is based entirely or partly on their decision to attack or defend me. The only other person who's opinion you base on their attack or defense of another player is:

xyzzy:

funded attack on Mgm is his main contribution so far. Neutral.

Curious. Now let's look at some of the reasons you decide someone is town:

logicticus

: prodding, attacking with quotes, like I would expect a townie to behave. Upgarded to likely townie.

LoudmouthLee

: [fittingly, one of the loudest players so far. I don't associate that with scum usually. Probably town.] previous comment still stands in principle, but my gut starts to worry. Less likely to be town than before, but not clearly scummy.

foolinc

: gave a helpful analysis of all players from his point of view. Tend to think of him as town for the time being

So loud people, people who post analysis of other players, and people who attack others with quotes, are more likely town.

Unless they are Skruffs, apparently. Because I've done all of those things, and you are still voting me. Hmmmmmm.

One of the reasons you decided that certain people are town or scum was based on the amount of their posts - for example:

Adele

: waiting for more contribution this weekend. So far, slight townie vibe.

Thestatusquo

: virtually absent (a confirm and a non content post). Could be scum trying to stay under the radar, but then does not do a very convincing job. Scummy for the time being, but more contributions are required.

Cogito Ergo Sum

: tends to post relatively short contributions for this game. So far, slight townie vibe, but would like to see more discussion about other players.

Talitha

: little contributions but accessibility problems. Need to see more of her. For the time being neutral.
Thesp: posted a good analysis to make up for earlier absence. Gives off town vibes for the time being.
Mastermind of Sin: [a rather complicated way to do a random vote and fit the posting rule. Then nothing. Smells scummy.] since then we have had little else than defence on his random method. Upgraded to scummy.
Mgm: a lot of (short) posts, also because he got attacked several times. I don;t see his actions as scummy so far, and don;t get a scum vibe. Also not a town vibe though. Neutral.

You get the point. SOmetimes not posting a lot is scummy, sometimes it's townie, sometimes it's neutral. Just a rather wide variety of opinions when you use the same reason to determine all of them.

Since I am now gettnig flak for posting about THesp, let's look at what you have to say about Pooky:

PookyTheMagicalBear: Pooky is still being pooky. I always have problems reading him. Neutral for the time being.

Oddly enough, I guess, Pooky missed, skimmed over, or just ignored this.
POOKY - is there a reason why you asked me questions about THESP YAY but have no inclination to ask DP about his "Pooky is Pooky" post on you?
Or, I guess, since you have previously said thatme and sense do not go together, should I just assume that DP and sense do go together, and so, he doesn't need to really be inquired abuot things he says?

That's almost everyone, except Jeep. He mentions jeep twice in this post, let's put those snippets together and see what kind of picture it says:

jeep: I am still uncomfortable with the way he backpeddled (I'm still maintaining he did) about eh Condorcet issues. In general, I think his contribution has been sub par - what has he done except these discussions? Maintain him as high in my list of probable scum.

I will unvote jeep, mainly because I don;t think we can get a majority on him anyway. I go back to Skruffs, and wtill do the condorcet thingy (I am putting myself ahead of no lynch for reasons that I will explain if someone wants to - it is not an error):

Unvote jeep

Vote Skruffs

, jeep, [Cubsfan4ever, Mastermind of Sin, PlaysWithSquirrels, Thestatusquo], [LoudmouthLee, Mgm, Oman, PookyTheMagicalBear, Talitha, xyzzy], [Adele, Cogito Ergo Sum, foolinc, logicticus, Thesp, VitaminR, Zindaras], Dragon Phoenix, No lynch.

Jeep is probably scum, he says, BUT.... BUT... "I don;t think we can get a majority on him anyways."
If that's one of the biggest reasons behind voting or not voting for someone, then the real reason behind his vote on me is simple : He thinks he can get a majority on me.
That also explains why he doesn't actually ask me questions, or anything, he jsut wants to see me get lynched. It's a lot easier to wagon someone rather than actually try to get someone you say is scum lynched, is the implications. That's not how I personally play, but it ties in very nicely with his original 7th vote on me in the first place, and his focus on me since then. He is pretty sure he can get me lynched, and that's that.

Bad, Bad dragon phoenix.

LoudMouthLee - You just hoppde right back on the wagon at the first oppurtunity, shortly after DP pointed out that he thought he could get a majority lynch on me. You completely ignored everything else and focussed on "Thesp, Yay". Why? When did I imply "we" should "Thesp YAY!", or even indicate that ANYONE should think about ANYONE the same way I do?
What *IF* Thesp was scum? I have no idea. I know that I enjoyed playing with Thesp in MOS, and he has culture and etiquette, something that, um, SOME players lack. so yeah, it was a misrepresentation, becaus eyou seem to be trying to twist "YAY THESP" into "WORSHIP THESP AS GOD"... but, if I recall correctly,

wasn't your initial attack towards me influenced largely in part from a game that me and you played in?

So where do you get off voting me for having preconceived opinions of a player in the game, AGAIN, when you've done the exact same thing?
And what exactly is the feeling of gospel?
Thanks, MGM, Foolinc, Adele, for being rational.


Thesp - Was DP distancing from jeep? No, I don't think that kind of relationship can be determined from that. I think he was using a mistake from jeep to strengthen town's opinion of him so that when he swung back towards me, more people would follow. Re; Weird - It's a comparison between the way LML is being treated and accepted as town for making horrible mistakes vs other people who are having hte opposite happen to them.


MOS - I agree that other players are pegging you about your random vote, but you are allowing yourself to be pegged, and responding mostly to it rather than shrugging it off. I can't imagine you being lynched for a series of random votes - and if you do that in every game, than you know that is probably the case, too. My point is that you might be using it as an excuse to aviod interactions. (However your game play may have changed since then)


Zindaras - LML dropped me from his earlier post as "a sign of faith", and perhaps as a truce for me to stop pegging him? That's my opnion of it, anyways.
In regards to THesp - I made that opinion of him after his first post and before he started really posting about other things -




Xyzzy - What do you personally think about the YAY THESP? Do you think I was tryign to accolade THesp to the point where people would say he's town? Do you think I was appealing to authority? Do you think I am scum buddying up to someone I know is town? Looking for help in defending myself? Or saying hi?
I disagree that if 20 people say someone is town, that you will think he is town. IF you have a reason to believe he is NOT town, you should say so. Going with the flow = mislynches because then you are basically just a swing vote with no opinion of your own.

Pooky - as I said earlier - you didn't comment on DP's comments, including the one where he said you are pooky and thus he has no read on you (as usual). You have no comment on that, but you are both the instigator and lead supporter of the "YAY THESP" thingie going on. IS there not enough stuffing to spread evenly between players? Would you like a better analysis, or are you content to point out that I did not analyze him? Lastly, there are other players I have not analyzed at all - but you did not mention them. Are you really scum hunting, or looking for easy targets?


Jeep - your vote count put me at the top of the list 8 hours after your previous one, at a time when LML is being discussed about his change in vote style, and with no reason. Are you baiting some? I hadn't talked betweenn your posts and I got bumped up. What changed your mind?
And why didn't anyone else notice/care? Why should LML be singled out for random changes in votes?

Adele is fun to read, and I agree with her opinions for the most part. Skruffs haters, pay attention:

I'm not going to analyze her at this time, because I like the way she is playing this game

.

To make everyone happy, here is my opinion of MGM and Thesp, two people I have garnered votes for regarding my purported relationships to:
Thesp - If I wasn't under all this pressure and defending myself, I would be playing this game Exactly the way he is. Namely, on day one, he is asking a lot of questions to flesh out opinions and reasons for actions that people are doing. He Is *not* aiming for a quick lynch, or even really voting that much. This tells me that he is interested in revealing scum rather than killing off people, which (if you will look at my own opinions), are the people I am most suspicious of so far today.

MGM:
HE seems relaxed, and except for his rather naive questioning about why he was on other's vote lists, almost all of his posts are rather informal. There are questions, but they are small, simple questions, and he doesn't really press anything. Very similar to Thesp's, actually.

Side note: I'm wondering if this entire game is being staged inside The Counte of Monte Cristo's head. And, I'm wondering what Frezno really has to do with it.

Unvote

Vote : Dragon Phoenix

, [jeep, vitaminr, pooky], [mastermind of sin, cogito ergo sum, adele, loudmouthlee, cubsfan, oman], [plays with squirrel (TSQ's replacement), MGM], [everyone else I've forgotten about, Skruffs], [talitha, zindaras, adele], No Lynch.

[Skruffs]

Also, for the record, I put Zindaras alone between talitha and adele towards the end of the vote list. You can thank me later, Zindaras. ^.^

[logicticus]

Scruffs decides that, since Thesp is a good player, we should "Yay Thesp!" because he "has a lot to bring?"

What would happen if Thesp was scum, Scruffs?

Is there any immediate reason to assume Thesp is scum, because if there isn't I don't see the problem here.

I just dont understand if skruffs had no read on Thesp why he didnt say so. Why throw out the "Yay Thesp!." Its perplexing, but I dont think its scummy.

MGM, why is there only a problem with the statement if Thesp is scum? Regardless of his alignment, its a useless statement. And what would the problem be if Thesp comes up scum? Would you assume that Thesp is scum if skruffs come up or not?

[Zindaras]

In regards to THesp - I made that opinion of him after his first post and before he started really posting about other things

At the time of your analysis, Thesp had already made four posts at that time, including this rather large post. I do not think there wasn't enough for you to analyze at that point.

Side note: I'm wondering if this entire game is being staged inside The Counte of Monte Cristo's head. And, I'm wondering what Frezno really has to do with it.

Claim: Stephen Hawking

.

Unvote

Vote : Dragon Phoenix

, [jeep, vitaminr, pooky], [mastermind of sin, cogito ergo sum,

adele

, loudmouthlee, cubsfan, oman], [plays with squirrel (TSQ's replacement), MGM], [everyone else I've forgotten about, Skruffs], [talitha, zindaras,

adele

], No Lynch.

Underlined for stress. Also note that PWS isn't TSQ's replacement: Tamuz is. And you would rather lynch yourself than Tally/Adele/me/No lynch?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

No PWS, all I said was that your conclusion that I would get no information from my MoS attack is incorrect and I showed it by one example.

I don't

want

you to believe anything other than what you normally believe.

If I feel the need to convince you of anything, I'll convince you.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

no, I don't think that MGM thinks that discouraging it is pro-scum.

Jeep is basically admitting here that the mgm quote isn't scummy. After all, it's the intent that makes the scum, not the action. You can't argue that Mgm is scummy for doing something pro-scum if you don't really believe Mgm thinks it's pro-scum.

Jeep is acting inconsistent and is not exhibiting townie characteristics.

Unvote, vote: Jeep

[foolinc]

Unvote

Vote : Dragon Phoenix

, [jeep, vitaminr, pooky], [mastermind of sin, cogito ergo sum,

adele

, loudmouthlee, cubsfan, oman], [plays with squirrel (TSQ's replacement), MGM], [everyone else I've forgotten about, Skruffs], [talitha, zindaras,

adele

], No Lynch.

Underlined for stress. Also note that PWS isn't TSQ's replacement: Tamuz is. And you would rather lynch yourself than Tally/Adele/me/No lynch?

[foolinc]

Unvote

Vote : Dragon Phoenix

, [jeep, vitaminr, pooky], [mastermind of sin, cogito ergo sum,

adele

, loudmouthlee, cubsfan, oman], [plays with squirrel (TSQ's replacement), MGM], [everyone else I've forgotten about, Skruffs], [talitha, zindaras,

adele

], No Lynch.

Underlined for stress. Also note that PWS isn't TSQ's replacement: Tamuz is. And you would rather lynch yourself than Tally/Adele/me/No lynch?

Sorry for the first post, hit submit on accident. Anyway, I agree with Zindaras here. While I don't agree with DP reasoning for putting himself before a no lynch, I can see where he's coming from. However, I'm not sure where you are coming from and would like futher explaination.

[Mgm]

Scruffs decides that, since Thesp is a good player, we should "Yay Thesp!" because he "has a lot to bring?"

What would happen if Thesp was scum, Scruffs?

Is there any immediate reason to assume Thesp is scum, because if there isn't I don't see the problem here.

I just dont understand if skruffs had no read on Thesp why he didnt say so. Why throw out the "Yay Thesp!." Its perplexing, but I dont think its scummy.

MGM, why is there only a problem with the statement if Thesp is scum? Regardless of his alignment, its a useless statement. And what would the problem be if Thesp comes up scum? Would you assume that Thesp is scum if skruffs come up or not?

You said it: regardless of Thesp's alignment, it's a useless statement. Besides, the statement Skruffs made didn't say 'we' should do anything. So the fact that the idea is even being pushed is what's really the problem.

[xyzzy]

Xyzzy - What do you personally think about the YAY THESP? Do you think I was tryign to accolade THesp to the point where people would say he's town? Do you think I was appealing to authority? Do you think I am scum buddying up to someone I know is town? Looking for help in defending myself? Or saying hi?
I disagree that if 20 people say someone is town, that you will think he is town. IF you have a reason to believe he is NOT town, you should say so. Going with the flow = mislynches because then you are basically just a swing vote with no opinion of your own.

I thikn you were assuming he

must be

town because he's good.

Adele is fun to read, and I agree with her opinions for the most part. Skruffs haters, pay attention:

I'm not going to analyze her at this time, because I like the way she is playing this game.

This is scummy in so many ways.... and ironically for the same reason as your Thesp comments.

[Oman]

Okay...my big look at everyone in order of player list:

Adele : I get an early townie vibe due to her discussion of dice tags and its resulting look at LML. While I'm not saying that LML is scum, I am saying I agree with her analysis within her posts and think them to be town.

The metascummy argument also makes me think town as she aknowledges it is "making a big deal out of it" (which it is). It severly weakens it to the point that no-one is going to be lynched on that argument. I don't see scum weakening themselves.

However Adele sticks to this chat on random voting rather than looking at the real issues. Says in post 181 "Things are random at this stage" which I think we're way past.

And... what game do you think we're playing? Wouldn't giving people your login so they can access your account and see your role pm allow them to see your motivations without wild guesses?
Are you gonna do it? No, because it's against the rule.
Why is it against the rules? Because it's anti-game.

Fairly stretchy. Malking motivations known are anti-game. But MoS isn't letting us know his motivations, he's putting forward what his motivations are, and its up to us to detect if its a lie or not. You're comparing his word (which is flimsy in a game) with irrefutable evidence.

I disagree with her stance on the "Yay thesp" issue, saying that its paranoia. I think thesp could be scum, if only because he's playing in the game, and we know there are scum here.

I don't get town or scum from Adel, gun-to-head I'd say town right now.

Cogito Ergo Sum : Statments on the voting system return nothing either way for me. "Adding players to a list won't magically tell the town what people are thinking, Oman." I disagree, it lets you know in exactly what order they find people suspicious/want them lynched.

The next post is about the voting system as well. While I find it an interesting discussion, I think CES is off. The voting system gives us a greater insight into players thoughts e.g. on of my votes had skruffs, Lml (i think), all others, vit r, no lynch, oman. This shows that I think that vitR is town at the point.

"Jeep is acting inconsistent and is not exhibiting townie characteristics. " I think you can vote for him for being inconsistant, but I doubt its fair to vote someone for not being townie enough if you don't think they're exibiting scumtells.

My major read on CES is neutral right now.

Cubsfan4ever : Disapproves of the skruffs wagon early (which is fine). Four votes wasn't THAT big a deal though.

Defends Skruffs and attacks LML for his "rather misguided" attacks on skruffs. If I had to choose I'd say scum now, but the lack of content prevents a real vote going his way.

I'll do the rest later.