Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[Haschel Cedricson]

ok. I was going to make a prod dodge post when I saw you actually pushed someone to l-1 and a claim, but I can say this.

Haschel scummily lurked through day 1. Didn't show up day 2. Suddenly gets behind a wagon. I won't lynch anyone but garmr or haschel today. Take your pick.

First off, I was on the Lalendra wagon yesterday. Second, it's a good wagon. Do you disagree with the substance behind it? Because if so you sure aren't showing it in your posts.

@Haschel

It seems to me the question is if we think a doctor and a bulletproof townie would both be in the same game.

As you didn't remove your vote, I assume that you think not?

I doubt it. I also agree with your point about the frequency of roleclaims in this game's wagons. I also tend to be skeptical of doc claims in general, but I acknowledge that's probably a confirmation bias thing on my part.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Prod dodge.

Will be here later today.

[Garmr]

Trying to figure out which direction to head at this point. Tbh I wouldn't really care if lale got lynched or not because I think she is scum but the best move is to see if scum kill her or not. But I will probably get lynched if I don't vote her and I know I'm town but then again there is a lot of focus on me and at least one of them has to be town so a lynch on me would get them to taste reality.

[Dwlee99]

I know this has been said already but I REALLY doubt there's a BP and Doctor in the game.

[Garmr]

I just came off a mini with a jailkeeper,doctor,rolecop and cop with 3 scum.

very town sided game but don't assume that stuff couldn't happen. If scum had a strongman as well.

That being said lale has done pretty much jack shit all game with no actual hunting for scum.

[Dwlee99]

They could have a strongman, that's a possibility. In the game you were in did the scum have any power roles at all?

[Garmr]

They could have a strongman, that's a possibility. In the game you were in did the scum have any power roles at all?

they had a god father,rolecop (which caught by the town role cop pista) and a roleblocker. It was a perfect town win.

[Dwlee99]

I guess a BP plus Doctor could be here if there is a strongman.
UNVOTE:

[Garmr]

I guess a BP plus Doctor could be here if there is a strongman.
UNVOTE:

I would judge lale on her game play through what do you think of lales behavior and the actual content she has produced?

[Meanmelter]

dodging, Busy with college again. I'll have something to post tomorrow.

[Keyser Söze]

I was away on the weekend. I should have posted V/L.A.

I am online this evening.

[Dwlee99]

From what I remember Lale didn't do much scum hunting except for pushing you, Garmr. Will hopefully have the computer today and be able to read their ISO.

[Garmr]

From what I remember Lale didn't do much scum hunting except for pushing you, Garmr. Will hopefully have the computer today and be able to read their ISO.

When you read there iso i want you to list point out the points they made when pushing me and the reasoning for deirfire.

[Dwlee99]

Iirc didn't they not even have reasons for Dierfire being "obv scum"?

[BlueBloodedToffee]

OK, so are we lynching Dier yet?

[Garmr]

Iirc didn't they not even have reasons for Dierfire being "obv scum"?

The reasoning they put deir as obvious scum is

DWL is Town and easy to lynch. Players voting DWL are therefore more likely to be Mafia.

UNVOTE: BBT
VOTE: Keyser

I didn’t have as much of a problem with 66 as some others did. I agree that Dwlee is town, which might be why I don’t find his absolute assessment of Dwlee as town to be weird, and I think that “Dwlee is town so others voting him are probably scum” is actually fairly solid logic that I think is used all the time to analyze wagons. Dier also wasn't the only one town-reading Dwlee at that point, so this makes even more sense in light of that. I don’t necessarily agree with his vote on Keyser, since myko was pushing Dwlee a LOT harder at that point in time than Keyser was, he just hadn't voted yet. There is a lot of ambivalent wording in Dier's posts – “I could see that coming from mafia,” “not a particularly strong case but not a particularly weak one,” “I could see that from mafia,” etc. - which I know a lot of people see as scummy, but I don't necessarily think that's alignment-indicative. There are plenty of people who tend to be wishy-washy as either alignment. The fact that he has only posted 12 times in 112 pages is definitely problematic, I feel like he’s just sort of jumping in with opportunistic votes. While I don’t particularly like his play this game, I’m not confident in reading him as scum, because he does have a few good posts where he genuinely seems to be trying to sort the game, but I wish he would post more.

She makes points why deir is scum in this post but immediately backtracks and pushes that he has a few good ones ect basically trampling the read.

It sounds like you're undecided on Dier.

If we get a wagon forming on him, maybe you will have a chance to develop a better read?

I would still prefer to lynch Garmr but I would not be opposed to Dier as a compromise lynch, because yes, I am undecided and would be interested to see how he reacts.

dier is just a comprimise lynch but the group seems to want him dead.

PEdit:

I would still prefer to lynch Garmr but I would not be opposed to Dier as a compromise lynch, because yes, I am undecided and would be interested to see how he reacts.

Did I just read that right? I don't see how you would agree with a lynch on someone you don't have an opinion on...

I want to put pressure on him to get information. Sorry I wasn't clear.

Then don't vote for him, pressure him.

This has already been mentioned but I still don't get this; how is a vote not pressuring? Maybe I should have said "I would be interested to see how Dier reacts to a wagon forming on him" instead?

Vote: Lalendra

The second sentence wasn't a joke--that part is true! Your vote typically doesn't stick, though.

Oh my god, this exchange bothers me something fierce. This isn't just pressuring anymore.
VOTE: Dierfire[/quote]
This is when diers wagon is building up she jumps on with this tacked on scum read.

Then she post this

Keeping up with the game, not opposed to the pistachi0 lynch but I don't want to vote until we have an official VC. I think BBT's point is legit, we won't learn much more going in circles like this, and the Dier wagon isn't going anywhere.

p-edit: That's actually not a bad point, Haschel. The target won't react properly if they know it's just a pressure vote. But don't you think that if they are close enough to being lynched, it gives the same effect as if it was a real wagon forming? Aren't they under some pressure knowing that their reactions to the votes being cast on them are going to determine whether they turn into real votes or not?

At this point it just seems she's trying to vote on the latest fad instead of scum hunting. This is something I would expect from a newb scum.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

We're not lynching a claimed Doc - that shit will sort itself out.

[Garmr]

We're not lynching a claimed Doc - that shit will sort itself out.

She's probally scum you can tell by looking in her iso.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

I think Dier, or Haschel, are far better options.

[Dwlee99]

From the posts you quoted Garmr I see a scum team between Dier and Lalendra. They are distancing but back tracking to avoid having the lynch go through.

[herrcombs]

Hey DWL -- Could you answer my question from 679?

[Dwlee99]

I think that dier is town. Although they have been generally passive and sitting back and asking questions I feel that those questions have solid reasoning in them.

I like Keyser's recent series of posts. I think that lynching Haschel would be better than lynching Garmr, but worse than lynching Hieirama or Lalendra.

UNVOTE: Hieirama
VOTE: Lalendra

@Garmr @Keyser

If you're reading Lalendra as Mafia, I think that you should vote for Lalendra.

@DWL

I'd like you to discuss further your impression that either Lalendra is Mafia or Garmr is. Are you equally willing to vote for either?

Like this interaction with Garmr & Keyser

@Hieirama

"My opinion still stands"
Past opinion was: "I assume he's Town."
Sorry, didn't feel like typing it out again.
I didn't substantiate it well enough. If you need a clarification, one reason why I Townread him is because his tone sounds like it's at a Town POV.

If you're reading Garmr as Town, then do you think that people voting for him are more likely to be Mafia?

Good question.

Okay, if I'm at L-1 then I guess it's claim time, before Garmr lolhammers again.

Garmr is already on the wagon. This claim feels fake to me.

@Lalendra

Which player did you protect N1?

Not really alignment-indicative question but meh.

So, having a Doctor and a BP in the same game is not impossible, but does seem a bit defensive to me. I'm also suspicious of the frequency with which our wagons are turning up roles.
If Lalendra is Mafia, the claim was probably designed mostly to dodge the lynch, rather than draw a counter, because the same principle that makes Doctor and BP unlikely to show up together makes it a less useful fake claim for drawing a counter.

If I could be certain that only one of the claims is true, I'd still probably want to lynch Lalendra (because Garmr would be reasonably confirmed if she flips Mafia and would not die immediately).
If both claims are true...well, then I'd want to look very carefully at the distribution of votes.
I wouldn't think that there's any way for neither claim to be true unless we're looking at multiple unfriendly factions.
We've plenty of time to think this through. I'm going to read through again over the next two days since I won't be busy.

@Haschel

It seems to me the question is if we think a doctor and a bulletproof townie would both be in the same game.

As you didn't remove your vote, I assume that you think not?

@BBT @Hieirama

You were absent for these events. What do you think of the wagon dynamics (speed, composition)?

Another good question.

[A Simple Plan]

Vote Count 2.6

[3]

Garmr - Meanmelter, mykonian, Lalendra [L-3]

[2]

Lalendra - herrcombs, Haschel Cedricson [L-4]

[1]

Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]

Not Voting -

Hieirama, Dierfire, Dwlee99, Keyser Söze, Garmr

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline - (expired on 2015-10-17 12:30:00)

I was unsure if the vote in 715 should be counted due to the failed quote after it, so I did not count it as a vote.

[Lalendra]

I reread Dierfire's ISO and I'm back to FOS'ing him. He asks a lot of questions of other people, but offers very little of his own opinions; it seems like he is just mostly fence-sitting, and offering very wishy-washy opinions, like he's trying to maintain distance from his reads in case he's wrong. I don't get the impression that it's just overly-cautious town play. I'd be comfortable with lynching him today.

[Lalendra]

To be clear, I am still voting garmr. However if the Dier wagon picks up steam, I will gladly sheep the fk out of it, because I am happy lynching either.