Mini Normal 1719 - Flavorless Fun! [Game Over!]

[Meanmelter]

@meanmelter ever heard of a compromise lynch welp yeah that's why I lynched pist and her lynch would of happened anyway.

com-pro-mise

(kŏmˈprə-mīz)

Noun

: a way of reaching agreement in which each person or group gives up something that was wanted in order to end an argument or dispute.

Where the hell was the argument or dispute? You voted for him because you wanted the day to end. Which doesn't give me any reason to see your vote as townie.

I just personally have not seen too much convincing evidence against my hypothesis. But there isn't much for it either.

It is mostly their D1 aggression towards each other and this post does not sit with me too well ->

XXX
In my original post I was thinking he was merely reaction fishing but he has yet to ever really comeback on it. And that's just the one thing giving me a feeling for the idea. Again, not very convincing.

@Keyser Söze: How would you feel if D1 Myko tunneled Garmr? Or perhaps, if Myko started tunneling Garmr D2? Would either change your stance on your opinion on the scum-team hypothesis?

I'm unsure of your question - mykonian

has

been tunneling Gamr since D1 (or you may have misunderstood what I said?).

I think we just have a slightly different definition on tunneling. Mykonian has been commenting on a lot of other peoples arguments and actions. He HAS focused on Garmr for being his number one lynch, though I don't think that makes it tunneling. Maybe I am wrong and he is tunneling him. :v

Seriously through I ask people to look up my scum meta and bring what they think of it here and no one has done that which makes me think the people who have done that don't want to admit they are wrong.

I do NOT have the time in my life to look at your 60+ games and look at how you played as a scummy/town/PR player. Especially when you can just play differently every game anyway. This is such a weak excuse. I guess you tried, though.

Haschel Cedricson and Lalendra have been quiet

They've ALWAYS been quiet.

@Herrcombs @meanmelter

@Hieirama

You said you agreed with Garmr's last paragraph in his post. Can you explain to me, in your words, where you found me to be misrepresenting him and where I was making it seem like a "giant fucking long time?"

I agreed with the fact that you failed to address his break and how he came back.
I didn't get the "giant fucking long time" part, but I feel as if the " nothing productive " is an understatement,((understatement, misrep sort of go along))

What is there to address about his break? He said he had zero motivation and that he might feel more motivated after two day break. He came back, gave a few reads and quick hammered Pistachi0n.

Perhaps you would like to inform me of what productive thing he did do?

You think the hardclaim was a scum thing, right? A counterargument would be that he ragequitted as Town and took a break, and he did come back better((at least imo he did)).

Sure.

242, Came back from break and gave Town reads.
269 and 270 scum reads.
And with that they continue to argue with people, mainly their scum reads. Arguing can be productive if done right, it can produce reads and opinions and all that good stuff.

He ragequit day one, from like 3 votes, and he's a townie...?

Just gonna leave this wagon for people to look at.

Really look at it.

Look at the people on it.

Scummy wagon, right? I know I wouldn't want to be a part of that. The only person on that wagon who I would confidently call town is Dwlee. Lalendra's and Mean's votes are pretty bad and I'm really not liking Myko's tunnel.

I'm also kind of surprised Myko wasn't first on the wagon...

Wow, we're voting for the

scummiest

player the whole game. WE MUST BE SCUM! Mod, quick, give this man Triple Day Vig powers so we can all just call it a day.

We've all made decent cases against him and if you want to just throw it out the window that's fine by me. You can just go right ahead and just replace out.

[Lalendra]

Also I would like to bring up the fact that you slipped in saying you prefer to lynch your town policy read over your scum reads. You would rather lynch town than scum.

Sorry but I'm not seeing that in the posts you quoted here. Can you please point out specifically where I said that?

I'm really getting tired of explaining this, but I'll say it again - my read on you evolved. First it was a PL, then it was your blatantly terrible and anti-town play, then it was your responses to pressure and general attitude toward the game that made me feel that you were in fact scum.

well this ones easy

It sounds like you're undecided on Dier.

If we get a wagon forming on him, maybe you will have a chance to develop a better read?

I would still prefer to lynch Garmr but I would not be opposed to Dier as a compromise lynch, because yes, I am undecided and would be interested to see how he reacts.

You said this when I was apparently a policy lynch lol.

I don't like how Garmr keeps telling us to meta him. It comes off as "I changed my playstyle look I'm not scum!!one1!!"

It irritates me people would accuse me of doing things a noob scum would do when I have never lost a scum game by town catching me (I had a sk kill me once when he was hunting town due to the fact he needed to keep towns focus on scum since scum had already taking a few hits at that stage.)

There's always a first time, you can't use never having been caught as a reason why you're not scum THIS time.

another filler post by you.


No actual content today I see.

Pretty sure I actually thought you were scum at that time, and you can be as dismissive as you want but that was a valid point.

[Lalendra]

Honestly I'm just getting frustrated at this point, Dier and garmr are so obvscum and no one is doing anything about it, and garmr keeps pushing the same points and beating the same dead horses. we deserve to lose this game if we're going to just let this happen.

[Garmr]

Also I would like to bring up the fact that you slipped in saying you prefer to lynch your town policy read over your scum reads. You would rather lynch town than scum.

Sorry but I'm not seeing that in the posts you quoted here. Can you please point out specifically where I said that?

I'm really getting tired of explaining this, but I'll say it again - my read on you evolved. First it was a PL, then it was your blatantly terrible and anti-town play, then it was your responses to pressure and general attitude toward the game that made me feel that you were in fact scum.

well this ones easy

It sounds like you're undecided on Dier.

If we get a wagon forming on him, maybe you will have a chance to develop a better read?

I would still prefer to lynch Garmr but I would not be opposed to Dier as a compromise lynch, because yes, I am undecided and would be interested to see how he reacts.

You said this when I was apparently a policy lynch lol.

I don't like how Garmr keeps telling us to meta him. It comes off as "I changed my playstyle look I'm not scum!!one1!!"

It irritates me people would accuse me of doing things a noob scum would do when I have never lost a scum game by town catching me (I had a sk kill me once when he was hunting town due to the fact he needed to keep towns focus on scum since scum had already taking a few hits at that stage.)

There's always a first time, you can't use never having been caught as a reason why you're not scum THIS time.

another filler post by you.


No actual content today I see.

Pretty sure I actually thought you were scum at that time, and you can be as dismissive as you want but that was a valid point.

Whats a valid point the last one. But that's still filler as it does nothing to prove I'm scum or why my actions this game make me scum. You haven't even provided one of those.

[Garmr]

Honestly I'm just getting frustrated at this point, Dier and garmr are so obvscum and no one is doing anything about it, and garmr keeps pushing the same points and beating the same dead horses. we deserve to lose this game if we're going to just let this happen.

Beating a dead horse would require making a actual case to why someone is scum.

[A Simple Plan]

Vote Count 2.4

[4]

Garmr - Meanmelter, Dwlee99, mykonian, Lalendra [L-2]

[3]

Lalendra - Dierfire. Garmr, Keyser Söze [L-3]

[1]

Hieirama - herrcombs [L-5]

[1]

Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]

Not Voting -

Haschel Cedricson, Hieirama

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline - (expired on 2015-10-17 12:30:00)

[Garmr]

@meanmelter what's the scum motivation for ending the day early when your bound to draw investigation roles ect?

[Garmr]

^
That's even assuming I did end the day early as we pretty much already finished up. What were you going to do make another flash wagon? The only question there was was who pista thinks was scum and she made a superficial post indicating who she thought was scum not long before the lynch. So we can get a basic idea already.

[mykonian]

Don't think so. You aren't going to votepark on dier and just let this day be. I already needed to drag you out of lazy scumhunting, do I now have to drag you out of lazy voting as well?

and the pot calls the kettle black.

Hardly. BBT has hardly pushed dier as scum, mostly just called him scum a lot without a case out there. And unsurprisingly, there still isn't a wagon since the start of the day. Meanwhile he's just sitting there taking potshots at the rest of the game. Hence, he's just parking his vote. It's super passive, has nothing to do with scumhunting.

My vote is in good company on your wagon, ty.

[mykonian]

Honestly I'm just getting frustrated at this point, Dier and garmr are so obvscum and no one is doing anything about it, and garmr keeps pushing the same points and beating the same dead horses. we deserve to lose this game if we're going to just let this happen.

I know dear. 3 votes are on a competing wagon. There are 4 votes doing nothing at the moment. They aren't all scum, just people

again

are just dipping their toes in the cold water. But you bet there's some scum hiding in there, it's just too cozy to play from there, no pressure at all.


so if the real pro townies would please stand up, please stand up.

[Garmr]

Don't think so. You aren't going to votepark on dier and just let this day be. I already needed to drag you out of lazy scumhunting, do I now have to drag you out of lazy voting as well?

and the pot calls the kettle black.

Hardly. BBT has hardly pushed dier as scum, mostly just called him scum a lot without a case out there. And unsurprisingly, there still isn't a wagon since the start of the day. Meanwhile he's just sitting there taking potshots at the rest of the game. Hence, he's just parking his vote. It's super passive, has nothing to do with scumhunting.

My vote is in good company on your wagon, ty.

Nah it really isn't you been tunnelling me the whole game only recently have you actually started acting on your own accord actually you were starting to get looked at for it.


My question for you is why did you vote pista yesterday if I was obviously scum and there was supposedly plenty time for a wagon I think if you were actually trying hard enough you might of scored a couple more votes.

Your shift to pista wagon was really bad you know at least mine was a end of the day thing because you didn't believe the day had ended.

Dwlee, you should absolutely vote for Pistachion. We're approaching the point of the game where we need a flip to progress further.

this is where I want herr to come in to complain about quicklynches and how there's more info to be gained

that's not a funny joke.




anyway, might as well put my money where my mouth is.

vote pistache

You were on that wagon to and since you had been tunneling me all day 1 you really didn't give much opinion to others.

[Garmr]

I wish lalewould make a case on why I am scum I have called her out on it 3 times recently and each time she dodges the subect it's really quite frustrating how pathetic she's acting at the moment.

[herrcombs]

First, let me get a readlist out there:

Dierfire: Null-town.

His interactions with BBT back on page 15 still seem really unnatural and appeasy to me. However, I like how he's been pushing on several different people today. Pushing the game forward is townie in my eyes.

Garmr: Scumlean.

On the one hand, his BP claim was so abrupt as was his quickhammer, that it could be reckless-town who simply has little patience for the game. However, I don't like how he's being so blatantly anti-town, trying to spin it as not-scummy, nor do I like how he gives zero attention to people who were/are not on his wagon. His tunnel on Lalendra feels like it's sucking the energy out of the game.

Haschel: Null.

His RVS opening made me really uncomfortable, but a cursory meta inspection reveals that he does that same thing every game. I don't like how he never answered questions about it, but oh well... He's been doing very little, is suspiciously inactive, but I do like his push on Hiei especially in 478 and 483. Not a lot to talk about, but I'd like to see more from him so I can get a better read.

DWL: Town.

Although I've pinged out a lot of stuff he said in pages 9-11, a lot of his posts since them seem town enough. He looks like he's trying to logically figure out the game, even if he's confused at times. I identify with a lot of what he's saying, especially in the Lalendra vs Garmr argument.

Meanmelter: Null-town.

I like the depth with which he caught up. I agree with most of his points against Garmr. And he also seems to be pushing on other people, trying to straighten up their logic and read consistency. Can't see much I don't like from melter. Would like him to post more though.

Hieirama: Scumlean*.

I give it the asterisk because it's exactly the type of noobtown I've lynched in the past for lapses in logic or lack of proactive scumhunting that could just as easily come from noobtown as noobscum. I will be keeping an eye on her though, I feel as the game goes on she will become easier to read.

Mykonian: Town.

I like how he's using his activity to push the game further. Earlier in D1, I felt like he was just posting to post and build up fluff in the thread, but he's redeeming himself in my eyes. i thought he was being overdefensive early on, but I'm led to believe it's just a matter of playstyle and not alignment-indicative.

Lalendra: Scumlean.

I'll talk about this more below, but I didn't like her push against Garmr as a PL yesterday. I discussed this in 374 and 408. I don't like how she keeps blindly tunneling on Garmr paying attention to no one else... Although I'm curious why she thinks Dier is so obvscum? I'm missing something obviously, because I can't see in her ISO where she has a single cohesive reason to think Dier is so blatantly scum.

Keyser Soze: Null-town.

I think I remember reading a few of Soze's older Newbie games, and he always seemed pretty eccentric as town, interacting more directly with people in real-time. I think he's fallen under my radar this game though. Upon inspection of his ISO, he seems readily willing to scour peoples' ISOs to figure out where they're coming from. The walls strike me as different than his playstyle I witnessed previously, but I still see town-value in them. I haven't really found anything that specifically pings me as scummy from Soze's posts.

BBT: Null-town.

I really liked his play D1, but I am a bit baffled by his D2 play for reasons others have already mentioned. Why ignore the work people have already put in D2, declare a lynchpool that consists of the last few people on the pistachio wagon yesterday, and take nothing else into consideration? I don't see scum-motivation in that, but I don't particularly understand why he's taking this approach now.

Ok, it's time for me to weigh in on the Lalendra vs Garmr thing: it's obnoxious, and I don't think it's TvT. I'm almost considering a world in which they're both scum, just because the degree of tunneling on each other is draining this game of life and is making it painful to follow. Thing is, it seems like I have to pick a side, because they're not backing down from each other any time soon.

Gun to my head, I'm going to say Lalendra is scum over Garmr. Starting with her Dierfire case -- What is it? She says he's obvscum, but I've never seen her substantiate that. Post 480 comes off as super strange to me. Then, 497 seems incredibly myopic. Why not use a flip, try to analyze a wagon, and see what you find? Why just shrug it all off, saying "I can't really disagree with anyone on the wagon cause I was all for the lynch?"

I do think that Lalendra was misrepping Garmr in 498. Even though I agree that Garmr responded rather emotionally, sometimes incoherently, to some of meanmelter's points, Lalendra simplified it in a way that brushed away the evidence that didn't fit her read and just made it easier to vote for Garmr. She continues to do this scummy simplification/misrepresentation, I pointed it out once earlier in 408 when she sheeped my read on Hieirama.

Lalendra's 652 seems really weird, especially since she hasn't pushed on Dier at all today. Why is Dier "so obvscum?" I am getting frustrated too, in part because Garmr's ISO is so hard to follow and my mind is swimming from all the defensiveness and the constant tunneling. But I am more bothered by how Lalendra is trying so hard to push the lynch, while not substantiating it well, and ignoring most else in the process.

Garmr's case against Lalendra 630 also seems rather well put together, and I can agree with many of the presented points (I think I've mentioned a few myself earlier).

Ugh, my head hurts. I need to make smaller, more frequent posts, or I'm going to find it increasingly difficult to stay involved in this game.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lalendra L-2

[Lalendra]

Honestly I'm just getting frustrated at this point, Dier and garmr are so obvscum and no one is doing anything about it, and garmr keeps pushing the same points and beating the same dead horses. we deserve to lose this game if we're going to just let this happen.

Beating a dead horse would require making a actual case to why someone is scum.

Alright since you clearly can't read my ISO I will go back and do a point-by-point analysis of why I think you're scum.

Although I'm curious why she thinks Dier is so obvscum? I'm missing something obviously, because I can't see in her ISO where she has a single cohesive reason to think Dier is so blatantly scum.

*sigh*
Really guys...ISO. Post incoming on this as well, apparently.

[Haschel Cedricson]

Did a quick skim. A Lalendra vote is exactly the sort of thing I can get behind.

Vote: Lalendra

. Wouldn't mind a Hieirama lynch either.

[Dierfire]

That's L-1 for Lalendra, right?

[Lalendra]

But then along comes 171. What is the purpose of this post? Why say you’re a power role if you’re not willing to say what? Why claim when no one asked you to? Why so cryptic? And then you just give up on the game. Anti-town at best. Don’t play if you’re just going to totally screw your team by playing poorly and then giving up. I dislike PL but this is the wagon that I am most inclined to pursue at this point, because as Hieirama pointed out, being blatantly anti-town is almost as bad as being scum.
VOTE: Garmr

At this point, I wasn't sure that he was scum, but I thought his play was off, as he didn't particularly seem to care what happened to town. He was either a super anti-town townie, or scum, but I was undecided.

...I don't really care. My care factor for this game is zero.

This. This right here. Yes you also said "maybe after a two-day break I'll feel better" but that's far from "I promise that after my two-day break I will return with decidedly pro-town activity and not continue to pork town in the rear end."

He tried to say that he really was still invested in the game, and that I should have been able to tell that, but then came back and said he didn't care about the game. In no universe does that make sense.

Then there's these, which I think speak for themselves:

I am not at all liking the exchange between melter and garmr. Melter is making valid points, Garmr is making almost unintelligible responses that mostly consist of "NOPE YOUR WroNG LOL". I don't really feel as though melter is misrepresenting what went on with garmr d1, and his responses to melter's points have caused him to officially surpass dier as my top scum read atm. While I didn't have a problem with people voting pistachio per se, I didn't like the quick hammer; yes, there were other people who had declared ITH, which is precisely why you DON'T then hammer the person without saying anything. It was pretty clear that there was a reason that they were waiting to hammer him.
VOTE: garmr

But if you meta every single one of my scum I have never ever fake claimed anything other than vanilla town and I don't plan to often.

Often
OFTEN
GOOD GOD PEOPLE HOW IS HE NOT SCUM

If people look at my scum meta I should be like confirmed town at this point

The fact that you keep pointing out how town your meta is makes me think that you are analyzing the crap out of it and only scum would need to do that.

Does it matter if my scum reads are on the same wagon if I have good reasons to scum read them?

You have not substantiated your scumread of me in the slightest, so I will continue to dispute this.

What about my other reads then?

Just not even going to dispute that, eh?

I don't like how Garmr keeps telling us to meta him. It comes off as "I changed my playstyle look I'm not scum!!one1!!"

It irritates me people would accuse me of doing things a noob scum would do when I have never lost a scum game by town catching me (I had a sk kill me once when he was hunting town due to the fact he needed to keep towns focus on scum since scum had already taking a few hits at that stage.)

There's always a first time, you can't use never having been caught as a reason why you're not scum THIS time.

Now please stop saying I never made a case on you, because I just proved that wrong, so either defend yourself or gtfo.

P-edit: Funny that the one on everyone's scumdar is scumreading me, I think that should make it fairly obvious which side I'm on.

[Lalendra]

Okay, if I'm at L-1 then I guess it's claim time, before Garmr lolhammers again. I'm Town Doctor - can protect one player each night from a NK.

[Lalendra]

(it should be a self-explanatory role but figured I'd pre-empt the follow-up questions)

[Dierfire]

UNVOTE: Lalendra

Seriously?

[Dierfire]

Okay, if I'm at L-1 then I guess it's claim time, before Garmr lolhammers again.

Garmr is already on the wagon. This claim feels fake to me.

@Lalendra

Which player did you protect N1?

[Lalendra]

That bit about Garmr was a joke. I protected mykonian because he was my main town read, and was actively scum-hunting, and was concerned that he might be enough of a threat that scum would NK him to shut him up.

[A Simple Plan]

Vote Count 2.5

[4]

Garmr - Meanmelter, Dwlee99, mykonian, Lalendra [L-2]

[4]

Lalendra - Garmr, Keyser Söze, herrcombs, Haschel Cedricson [L-2]

[1]

Dierfire - BlueBloodedToffee [L-5]

Not Voting -

Hieirama, Dierfire

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline - (expired on 2015-10-17 12:30:00)

Prodding Hieirama and Dwlee99.

Mod will be at least semi-absent through Sunday.

[Dwlee99]

Wait, what. I've been posting.. also:
UNVOTE: Garmr
Not sure about the slot anymore. Makes better cases on Lale than Lale makes on them.

[Dwlee99]

Nvm, it's been 2 days and 6 hours, mb. The garmr lalendra tunelling makes the game annoyingly repetitive with the same points thrown out time and time again.