Mafia 64: The New "C9" - Game over!

[Kinetic]

ki·net·ic /kɪˈnɛtɪk, kaɪ-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ki-net-ik, kahy-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–adjective
1. pertaining to motion.
2. caused by motion.
3. characterized by movement: Running and dancing are kinetic activities.
[Origin: 1850–55; < Gk kīnétikós moving, equiv. to kīné- (verbid s. of kīneǐn to move) + -tikos -tic]

[ManaSpryte]

Sweet, mafia no-killed, or, much more likely imo, we had a successful doc protection .

If MrBuddyLee (my protection) wasn't NK targeted, I bet there is some other doc out there who protected me and that's why I live -- after me placing the lynching vote on scum at the end of the day yesterday, maybe the scum realized that it finally was no longer feasible to continue trying to lynch a claimed doctor.

Okay, Town. I hate giving up power roles, but its for the good of the town. The reason why I wanted Guardian lynched so badly is because

I'm a doctor

. Now, I bet you're saying to yourself that there could be two doctors, but listen to this. I

DID NOT

protect Guardian, I protected Glork. So according to Guardians post, The Doctor protected him from the scum, but the other doctor is me. So Guardian is lying about his role. Don't you think that the Mafia would go right after a claimed doctor? The fact of the matter is that he's still alive because we didn't lynch him when we had the chance.

Vote: Guardian

Mod Edit: He used the wrong tags. Fixed.

[Guardian]

Who did you protect Night 1, the other night?

[Guardian]

And claiming without provocation was probably the worst thing you could have done right there...

Even if you are a doctor, you're still a fool.

[Kinetic]

-.- Mana, or the simpler explanation is that the mafia decided not to try and kill Guardian to call him out on his doc claim when it came up that GLORK or MBL was killed... But when one of the possible docs did save one of them....

Obviously the only way to settle this is for one of the mafia to come out and tell us who they targeted last night. Anyone?

Mana you suck for the unprovoked and idiotic claim.

[ManaSpryte]

And claiming without provocation was probably the worst thing you could have done right there...

Even if you are a doctor, you're still a fool.

Oh really? I thought you were the doctor and we could protect each other.

YOU ARE CAUGHT!

Confirm Vote: Guardian

FoS: Kinetic,

for going along with caught Guardian. LmL has not sent me my replacement's night actions.

Mod, please do that.

[Guardian]

And claiming without provocation was probably the worst thing you could have done right there...

Even if you are a doctor, you're still a fool.

Oh really? I thought you were the doctor and we could protect each other.

You think I trust you enough to protect you? YOU TRUST ME ENOUGH!?!?!?!?

Bullshit.


Even if we did and we were, a double kill could get through it -- and if we decided somehow to protect each other that would leave the whole town wide open.

Like hell we'll be protecting each other.

YOU ARE CAUGHT!

YOU ARE IDIOT!

[Glork]

Mana, the reason that claiming and mutually protecting is a bad idea is because twofold:
1) The Mafia and SK will work together to kill one of you. Note that one Doc protection cannot protect against a double-nightkill. Eventually, one of you would be killed, and then the other would be killed.
2) If you both mutually protect each other, the scums have free reign to kill

anybody else in the game

as they see fit. You two might survive, but you're basically offering up

every

other player in the game.




That said, I believe Mana's claim entirely. I think that he meant well by the claim, but that's a pretty common mistake for new Doctors in a two-Doc setup.

I do not think that either Mana or Guardian (again, I believe his claim as well... for the time being) should announce who they will protect, but I think it is reasonable to conclude that Glork/MBL/Mana/Guardian will be high among their potential protection-targets.

YOU ARE IDIOT!

No personal or ad-hom attacks, please. We don't need those in this game.

[Kinetic]

Meh, I don't disbelieve Mana's claim at this time, I still think it was not the time or place to make it... But I'm still mighty suspicious of both Guardian and Mana at this time. Right now though the mafia

DO

know who is a real doc among the two of you because it seems like a doc protection at night caused them to miss a kill. With that being the case, someone is not going to be safe tonight...

Alright, I'm going to go back to my reading, I'm still not 100% on this game and my notes are all over the place.

[Glork]

But I'm still mighty suspicious of both Guardian and Mana at this time. Right now though the mafia DO know who is a real doc among the two of you because it seems like a doc protection at night caused them to miss a kill. With that being the case, someone is not going to be safe tonight...

This is exactly why both Guardian and Mana,

even if they suspect one another

should give serious consideration to targeting each other, but

should not announce in-thread who they will target

.

[LoudmouthLee]

This will be the ONLY warning about Ad Hom attacks.

Guardian has been warned. If he Ad-Homs like that again, he will be MODKILLED.

Anyone else who follows suit will be warned once, told to apologize, and then modkilled on a repeat offense.

I hope I make myself clear.

[Kinetic]

Well I'm right now at the beginning/middle of Day 2 in my reading, before the Guardian lynch/claim really takes off, and I'm mighty suspicious of TCS. I'm going to

Vote:TCS

at this time. If at the end of my re-read I still feel this way I'll bring up the points I've found.

[HackerHuck]

...but I think it is reasonable to conclude that Glork/MBL/Mana/Guardian will be high among their potential protection-targets.

What purpose is served by this quote and why do you think that Glork/MBL would be high among potential protection targets? Both of you are the more popular SK suspects, so I don't see why a doc would try to protect an SK.

Nice to see I'm suddenly a popular suspect. I'll be listing my top two scum and reasons by EOD.

[Kinetic]

I thought it was obvious Hacker. The two claimed docs said those were their defense targets, and the mafia no killed. One of those two WAS almost killed, thus it could be concluded the mafia MIGHT want one of them dead...

[HackerHuck]

I thought it was obvious Hacker. The two claimed docs said those were their defense targets, and the mafia no killed. One of those two WAS almost killed, thus it could be concluded the mafia MIGHT want one of them dead...

Unfortunately, I devoted more space to the less important part of my post. First, you cannot assume that the mafia tried to kill one of the two people who our docs claimed to protect. It's just as possible that AE was the mafia target instead of Glork or MBL. What I'd really like to point out is that I'm not sure I understand why Glork is suggesting to the docs what they should do.

Now with two claimed doctors, we're stuck in a bit of WIFOM about who to believe until they both turn up dead. I guess it doesn't really matter until later in the game if one of them is still alive.

Now for my scum choices:
TCS is my top choice, mainly for his day one behaviour and his recent appeal to emotion. Looking back at day one, I feel like his overwhelming scumminess was an act. Although I feel he was using it to cast enough doubt on him to make most people dismiss his behaviour as just "always scummy". Notice that he really played up that point with Albert early in day one. Now he's changing his tune a bit about why he's acting scummy. First it was to "get reactions" and now it's for his own survival.
I'm going to stick with Glork as my second choice for scum. Most of his scumminess comes from the force in which he's making his cases. He's really trying too hard in most of his posts and the recent ones seem to further that suspicion to me. He started off the game by squashing the discussion about the N0 kills. That appears to be pro-town, but continued discussion would have given us more insight later in the game. He also hammered BM early on and led the charge on that early and fast wagon. Looking back on it, I'm willing to bet there was some scum on it, which would be in either Glork, TCS, or Billy. More than one case where he has seemingly coached roles (SK and Doc) while justifying it away as "I'm only saying this is what will likely happen".

Now, I'm pretty sure that these two aren't scum together. I feel much better about TCS as scum than Glork.

One other thing I caught when rereading, is that I did get a bit of a bussing feel between MoS and MBL earlier on, so my odds would put MBL in the scum group rather than the SK.

As for who I think might be SK...

I really don't know. Anything I would say is just a guess, so I'm loathe to put that out.

[Kinetic]

I'm hesitant to say this, but if Guardian is the other doc I think he should read this. During my reread of Day 2, a lot of Mana's moves since he came into the game reek of a newbie doc. His instant mistrust of Guardian, his haphazard attacks, even his own claim and who he says he protected fit the same pattern. At this point I really believe that, although he is acting very compulsive and not analyzing his actions very much for the good of the town, that his claim is true... Which actually scares me more.

I agree on a lot of your ideas about TCS Hacker, he keeps coming back as generally scummy in my book as well. Most specifically I'd like to look back at InHim's analysis right after Day 2 with a little more information:

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Albert B. Rampage – 8 – Yosarian2, xyzzy, MrBuddyLee, HackerHuck, YogurtBandit, Shteven, The Central Scrutinizer, inHimShallIBe
YogurtBandit – 8 –

Sarcastro

, Billy Twilight,

HungryJoe

, Jack, Glork,

Albert B. Rampage

,

Mastermind of Sin

, Guardian

Guardian – 2 – Battle Mage,

AutumnEvenings

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Battle Mage early bandwagon – 8 - Glork, BillyTwilight, Guardian,

AutumnEvenings

,

HungryJoe

, The Central Scrutinizer, yogurtbandit,

Sarcastro

If BM is town or SK, I expect there to be two scum in the above. If he is scum, very likely there is only one scum voting him.

End of Day spread:
Voting for ABR – YB, TCS
Voting for YB – Glork, BT,

Hungry Joe

,

Sarcastro

, Guardian
Not voting either of the above –

AE

People that I mentally clear: YB, BT, AE – this leaves TCS, Glork, Sarcastro, Guardian where there is at least one scum, again imo. I noted the Day’s end vote counts because I think scum would separate themselves after being clumped together on an early bandwagon (remember this all hinges on the fact that I believe BM is town). Given all these assumptions, I see an isolation.

In addition lets add in the Guardian near Lynch, and the eventual Sarcastro scum lynch from Day 2:

Guardian- 7 (

Sarcastro

, hackerHuck, BattleMage, Glork, Yosarian2, Shteven, InHimShalliBe)

6 votes for Sarcastro (

AutumnEvenings

, Shteven, YB, MBL, Glork, Guardian)
6 votes for Yogurt Bandit (HackerHuck, ManaSpryte, InHim, BillyTwilight, Jack, TCS)

Now TCS was on the Guardian lynch until BattleMage joined it (having the third vote I believe), but vacated the lynch in a very scummy fashion:

Ut-oh. BM is on the wagon. Time to get off it.

unvote: Guardian

vote: The Central Scrutinizer - and now I also see the unprovoked unvote of Guardian. Yes, I liked this vote Yesterday, and encourage it Today.

If we believe Guardian's claim (and even if we don't believe it, but think he's SK. A point that is given major credence since he basically hammered Sarcastro) this puts TCS in a very peculiar position. We have him dancing around the key votes of the days onto people who have for the most part turned up town, or at the very least do not seem to be team scum. He places the vote Day 2 in an almost desperate attempt to keep Sarcastro from being lynched. He didn't even comment about the vote:

unvote, vote yogurtbandit

I had go back quite a bit to find his 'reasons'

August 17, 5 days and 2 pages before his actual vote

I'm keeping my vote on Glork, but at deadline I prefer a Yogurt lynch over a Sarc lynch, and will hop to make it so.

(If necessary)

Basically giving him an out for coming up late and trying to sway the vote away from Sarc.

Since the end of day vote on the first day now has officially two scum on it we can feel very sure that at the best only one more scum could possibly be on it, but I would be willing to bet that at best there are 2 team scum on the Albert side.

Albert B. Rampage – 8 – Yosarian2, xyzzy(mana), MrBuddyLee, HackerHuck, YogurtBandit, Shteven, The Central Scrutinizer, inHimShallIBe

None of the people on this list have been cleared at all, so lets head over to the BM lynch to try and limit some further:

Battle Mage early bandwagon – 8 - Glork, BillyTwilight, Guardian,

AutumnEvenings

,

HungryJoe

, The Central Scrutinizer, yogurtbandit,

Sarcastro

Now assuming BM is town, we can suspect there are 2-3 scum on this wagon as well. Sarcastro has already been outed, so this leaves Glork, BT, TCS, and YB left (Guardian is excluded because of his low likeliness to be teamscum)

From those 4 we can assume either 1-2 scum are there.

Lets limit this further with End Day 2 Lynch Information:

6 votes for Sarcastro (

AutumnEvenings

, Shteven, YB, MBL, Glork, Guardian)
6 votes for Yogurt Bandit (HackerHuck, ManaSpryte, InHim, BillyTwilight, Jack, TCS)

YB: Could be scum, his vote on Sarcastro could just be him saving his ass. That being said, twice he's been nearly lynched and already two scum have come up on his first lynch attempt. I would be willing to bet at least one more is on his lynch Day 2.

BT: In a very precarious position here. He is very lurky. Could be one of the teamscum. However his vote Day 1 on BM is second to Glork. I feel the first 5 voted are townie (except for BTs), but his second vote on YB day 1 seems townie (and I wouldn't expect him to follow another scum's vote so early in the game). High on my list, but not the highest.

Glork: Could be teamscum or SK. That being said he was rather pivotal to getting Sarcastro lynched, and with one of the doctors saying they protected him and a mafia no kill, we have too many inconsistencies.

TCS: Continually in the wrong place at the wrong time. Between him and BT, both are very close in my book, but I prefer TCS for the reasons stated above and because I'm slightly less suspicious of BT.

My vote stays on TCS. I still have about 10 more pages of rereading to go, but I've been jumping back and forth and doing some targeted rereads. I'm fairly confident TCS is part of the mafia.

[Kinetic]

Wow... that turned into a much bigger post than I expected it to...

[Guardian]

ManaSpryte, I'm sorry for calling you an idiot. I probably would have acted similarly in your shoes.

[ManaSpryte]

Its just a game dude, Took no offence to it at all. What I was screaming at my computer screen was a lot worse then calling someone an idiot. heh

[The Central Scrutinizer]

There were no reasons to lynch Sarcastro yesterday.

None

. I voted for the player who was the most scummy, and we got lucky to deadline-lynch mafia.

Although your argument is decent otherwise. I haven't been terribly helpful this game anyway.

[Guardian]

Yeah. When I say your position.... I have very little doubt in my mind that you are a doctor -- let us know your previous targets when you get a chance...


I figure I had better do this now than later, I don't want another "counter claim".

I am a townie. Who lied.

Yes, let me repeat that -- I am a townie who lied.

I am not a doctor. I fake claimed to a) prevent being mislynched and b) hopefully draw night kill.

a) happened, b) didn't, considering we lynched scum I was very very happy with the results of day two. Not mislynching me and instead lynching Sarc-scum was a great result from my gambit.

I continued to be somewhat happy up until the point where ManaSpryte "counterclaimed" -- outing a real doctor for no reason was the one thing I feared when I claimed, and I'd thought I had avoided that most undesirable scenario, and then MS claimed.

A third doctor might well consider claiming with 2 claimed doctors, as one of us would obviously be lying, and I don't want that to happen. If there is another doctor out there, Glork or ManaSpryte are excellent protection targets.


So, that is the truth. I am a townie. I assume some people will pounce on this with a "lynch all liars" mantra.... And I would be quite saddened by this, as it would result in the very mislynch I had tried so hard (and succeeded) in preventing.

I'll say it one last time to be clear: I am a townie who lied. My protection claims were targets who made sense to me to target who didn't die -- for example had MoS not died I'd have said I'd protected him, but he died so I came up with Billy. MoS being scum made me quite happy that I am really not a doctor -- were I, MoS and AE would still live, and our SK would be very frustrated, heh.

Glork is almost certainly not mafia. Mana is almost certainly a pro-town doctor. I am vanilla town.

Make from that what you will.

[HackerHuck]

Wow, I certainly didn't expect that. I will say that as town, the timing of your claim doesn't make much sense to me. Try and explain to me your thought process behind suddenly exposing your lie. It certainly seems to me that we would be better off if you had just kept on pretending to be the other doctor.

I'd also like to understand why you now think Glork is town and you think it's acceptable to direct the doc's actions....

[Jack]

Whoah. I don't have much time for this gamebut I've been reading it and that was surprising. I think we can accept that mana=doctor, guardian=townie, and glork=not mafia.

I really don't think guardian would have claimed townie as scum. Also, I think lml's pop quiz question about number of doctors in the setup might hint at guardian having lied about it.

Also remember, guardian hammered sarcastro, and doctor is a terrible claim for sk as it will draw the mafia nightkill.

[Kinetic]

Yea... I kinda half figured Guardian was the Doc... but I really expected it was because he was a SK... There is no possible way he is teamscum in my opinion...

Mana still fails at doc claim >> << >> <<

bleh

[Kinetic]

EBWOP: Guardian was not doc**