Okie dokie. So I've got my points of views on most everyone, but I doubt everyone wants to see that all at once. Below is some of the longer thoughts, I'll post the rest in the morning.
LOUDMOUTHLEE -
LoudmouthLee wrote:Fourth misrepresentation - My voting for MGM after no-lynch is *not* in stone. If you had read the last post, I asked if you wanted me to put MGM in front of no-lynch. I said I Would completely fine with doing that - if you wanted me to. How does that equate to "It's in stone"? You are gerry-mandering, now.
If you're trying to tell me that I can't look at voting patterns to discuss guilt or innocence, then what's the point of playing mafia? it has been discussed that I have not made ANY misrepresentations. So Scruffs, I would appreciate that you back down, and I'm going to explain why.
Scruffs acted this same exact way to me in a recently completed game. He continually attacked me for absolutely no reason, giving unsound logic and really awful points. Even though the town KNEW all of his points were awful and his logic lacking, I continued, out of a unrequited need, to respond to him. How did it end? Me, getting lynched, as an innocent.
The fact that I'm appearing in so many lists right now is reminicent of that game. It's angering me greatly.
A) I never implied you can not look at voting patterns. Feel free to look at voting patterns. But implying that I refuse to vote for MGM directly after I said I would be more than willing to - that is not 'looking at voting patterns'. I am not repressing you. You are saying things that do not have a basis in the game, and I am pointing out those of them I see. You are quick, VERY quick, to imply that there is a connection between me and MGM.
Calvin & Hobbes: I attacked you for the reasons I had on hand. I don't want to get into details, but needless to say, considering how unsound my logic must have been and how horrible my points were, I find it odd that you would attribute the entirety of your mislynch to me. Either my points were not as bad as you would like to paint, or, more likely, my points were ignored and people found other reasons to lynch you. I consider it unfair to draw a direct connection between my suspicion of you and your being lynched. That is just an untrue statement. I am curious if VitaminR and Pooky, who were also both in that game, would agree with you. They were both alive at that point.
I WASN'T. I had been nightkilled the night before you were mislynched.
I may not have played well that game, but I did the best I can - I apologize that it wasn't pleasant for you.
If I remember correctly, everyone basically had a vitriolic character-smack down. PJ, who was part of it, replaced out (replaced by pooky).
Lastly, you can try to paint me and you as having a negative forum-game history together, with out one game, but I've been in three games with Zindaras - one of them being double headed - and he seems to like me. Cubs, who has been in two survivor/bb games and blames me for his loss in both of them, doesn't seem to hold it against me. Oman, Thesp, and Mos have all been in games with me, and, even if they are voting me, it's because they are using in game reasons.
The point is, if you just want to get me out of this game because you don't like my forum game style, state so, and I will replace out. Otherwise, you're being unfair to me, to yourself, to Mr. Grey, and to all the other players. Otherwise, let it go, because it's not going to get you anywhere. Sure, you might get me lynched, but then you'll be under scrutiny the next day, and what will your reasoning be for all of this? "Well, C&H!C&H!!!" It won't cut it.
-----------------------------
ZINDARAS :
Zindaras wrote:Skruffs wrote:VitR -> Opportunistic. IT is not standard town behavior to not care who gets lynched as long as someone does. In this particular situation, that would also include yourself.
If you do *not* like the idea of a no lynch, then you need to place a list with everyone in front of no lynch, signifying that, because as it stands, if me, Zindaras, or MGM is not lynched, you don't care if someone else gets lynched OR we no lynch.
You want everyone to make Condorcet votes of everyone? Because that's what this implies.
Is that what I said? No. I said that if you are so anti-no lynching as
to be willing to lynch someone for having it as an explicit option
(as compared to unexplicit which is what not having a list implies) then you need to explicitly make a list stating that you are willing to vote everyone else in the game before you would consider non-lynching.
Zindaras wrote:Skruffs wrote:I gave some players I have not played with before, like jeep, benefit of the doubt, because I didn't want to list EVERYONE in the list.
And why did you give them the benefit of the doubt? Why some specific players and not others?
Zindaras - if you are going to unvote me, please retract your statement that I am a villainous cur that needs to be lynched, or else, it will seem you are trying to get other people to do your dirty work for you. KThx.
Have you not grasped what I've been doing? I daresay it would be quite obvious, when someone says things like "villainous cur", "ignoble villain" and "god-forsaken semblance of a man" and confirm votes someone 20 minutes into the game, it is quite obvious that that person is joking around.
I don't know why I didn't go right out and put every single player in a list. I guess I assumed some of the older players will be focused on by other players, or, by rights of seniority, should be given 'the benefit of the doubt'. Players that have made bad moves in other games - like LoudMouthLee in C&H and Adele in Open 19, I put on the vote list because their playstyle is incomprehensible to me (At least in those instances).
I very much wanted to put Pooky on there, but, I believe I left him out. It was all very much spur of the moment as to who 'went on' and who didn't, but, at the time, I rather assumed that pretty much everyone would be using the Condorcet voting system in one way or another. Since it is a rather unique game mechanic, at least for me, and since it was
my first post of the game
, I kind of just had fun with it.
Post 126 - Acknowledging DP's scorn at him unvoting me. Zindaras's earlier post towards me about how he shouldn't be taken seriously 20 minutes into the game (if that's how he phrased it) is also applicable to DP suggesting Zindaras dropping out was scummy. DP just wants me lynched, is what it comes down to. But this part is about Zindaras.
Pavlov, Ha. I think if people stopped playing games like these in such a routine fashion (banter, random wagon, counter wagon, frantic deadline lynch of power role) the games would evolve in a much more interesting way. Fight your own training, Zindaras.
--------
Dragon Phoenix:
Summary: DP has been getting some slack in this game for being the 7th vote for me. He hops off me with some scum hunting on jeep, gets acknowledgment for it, and then hops back on me. Does that validate the earlier actions? I hope not. Scum can act town for short periods of time, but in the end, they want mislynches.
Dragon Phoenix wrote:Skruffs wrote:Dragon Phoenix - What kind of
information are you looking for from me? Was that an ask to claim?
I am looking for information in general, not from you specifically. Whether you claim or not is your decision, I am not pushing for it (I usually do not claim myself even at lynch -1, unless I have a power role or unless I am scum simulating a power role). There is a ot we can learn on days to come on how bandwagons are formed and pushed forward
or not, and reactions of other players as well as the and wagonee.
If you want 'information', but aren't actually asking for information, I am confused abuot my role in this, except as bandwagonee. You want yoru vote to be on me so that... later on... people can look back and see that you were voting me? I am confused. Are you scum pretending to be distancing from me? If you are looking for reactions, maybe you should try offering theories.
Dragon Phoenix wrote:
LoudmouthLee: fittingly, one of the loudest players so far. I don't associate that with scum usually. Probably town.
VitaminR: made a positive contribution to the game in post 74, picking Scrubbs apart. Likely townie.
logicticus: reasonable contribution so far, but his not voting is in my book a small scum tell. Slight suspicion.
Mastermind of Sin: a rather complicated way to do a random vote and fit the posting rule. Then nothing. Smells scummy.
Skruffs: I hopped on the bandwagon the moment I saw it (as you do on day one), but going back through the game I am actually quite happy that he is the front runner. Likely scum.
PlaysWithSquirrels: picks me with at least some reasoning (Apparently my first words are a minor scum tell in his book). Not much to go on yet. Neutral.
Zindaras: don't know what to make of him. Inconsequential posting, attacked Scrubbs vehemently onyl to drop him the moment the wagon gets underway, to switch to LML on gut. Hm. IGMEOY.
Cubsfan4ever: "What the...? Why does Skruffs have four vote?" That's all. At this rate he will not survive long. Gives off a scum smell
if Skruffs turns out to be innocent.
IGMEOY.
Mgm: a lot of short posts, not much substance. Got defensive early on for appearing on Concordet votes. Too experienced to mark that down as a scum tell. Neutral.
Oman: not much to go on. Picks me for puttng on the 7th vote (why the one who votes 7th?). And can't spell. Apart from that, neutral.
Interestingly, when MGM asks why DP feels MORE that I am scum now than when he
first put on the bandwagon vote, he refers to VitaminR's annotation.
"VitaminR: made a positive contribution to the game in post 74, picking Scrubbs apart.
Likely townie."
So.
To put this in perspective, I am likely scum, because VitaminR attacked me. And VitaminR is likely town, because he attacked me. I am assuming Dragon Phoenix decided I was the more likely scum beign attacked by a townie versus the opposite because I already had 6 votes on me, versus VitaminR's... one? zero?
interesting.
Another interseting thing: He puts all his bets on me being scum, BUT, he leaves an out for if I am town: Cubsfan, who had (At that time) made one post asking why I had four votes. So if I did get lynched and turned up town (which he states as "If he turns up town" not "if he gets lynched and turns up town", which suggests that DP has already concluded I *will* be lynched) he has an easy person to go after the next day. Why?
Because, apparently, Cubs knew I would turn up town and thus was acting townie? Couldn't that be taken a step further, and thus the corollary that DP also knows I will turn up town (or, barring that, at least non-mafia) and is laying the grounds for a push the next day on a person that has not yet contributed? After all, DP has already taken for granted that I will show up as something. Just thoughts.
Also interesting, Oman and Jeep both get scummier the more they question DP's authority.
His later note on Jeep is very interesting and goes against my collected data on him. As well as everyone else's. I like how he took a break, 'dug' at jeep, got accolades for it, adn then went back to me. Now people are saying "Well look what he did to jeep" (even if it was misguided), which by default makes it look like he was doing the same thing to me. He wasn't. I don't remember him 'digging' when he put the seventh vote on me, and I don't remember him 'digging' when he said that if I was scum one person would look bad and if I was town another would look bad.
------------------------
JEEP -
jeep wrote:1) The only reason I can see for NOT using a list in your vote is if you are scum and haven't yet figured out how you plan to make your list so that it reduces your risk while not tipping your hand.
2) Why don't you agree? I don't understand why any pro-town role would not use a list. The only reason for not using a list is because you are scum and haven't had time to work out with your scum buddies what is the right way to use it to your advantage.
Even if you don't provide a list, you're just saying: I'd be equally happy to lynch anyone.
1 vote: MGM, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, Skruff
2 vote: MGM, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee, Dragon Phoenix,
Skruffs
Both LoudMouthLee and Skruffs (if not the other two) have used Lists so far in this game.
Side note:
Playing in Exile Mafia (abandoned game by GreenLiquid) gave me a Little bit of experience regarding strange voting systems. I was a townie in that game and wound up getting lynched for pushing that everyone should declare who they were going to "nominate" before the time to nominate happened. Effectively everyone had one vote and we 'deadline lynched'... anyways the details are unimportant but I feel that town does get a significant advantage over scum by saying who they want to vote in these kind of systems. It gives scum an advantage because they then kill people who are low on a majority of lists, though, which is something worth considering. Partial lists seem to be a fair balance, and in the event of a deadline, (which is not anytime soon), more attention will be focussed on them. Maybe that's the time to really start talking about them, I don't know.
-----------------
There's more, but to sum up some other players:
Talitha, Thesp : Yay! These guys make me happy.
Where is TSQ?
Mos: Posting a bunch of random votes is fine, especially if it is a null-tell and all that, but avoiding the rest of hte game by focusing on a set of random votes that you *Had* to know would draw attention, that is avoiding leaving ANY tells by keeping yourself focused on yourself, and that's not quite as much a null-tell.
DP is at the top of my list, now, but I don't have a vote list that works.
Thank you for not lynching me! (yet)
Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod
