Open 32 - Pick Your Poison Mafia (Game Over!), before 470

[mneme]

Jack: what number 1? Did you even read my post?

[Jack]

You put their names in order. I guess you didn't specify that rishi was number one. Why did you single out that part?

It's obvious I read your post.

[Patrick]

mneme, mind explaining why you suspect those three people?

[mneme]

Patrick: it's in the PBPA, but...

Rishi: lurking. Has only attacked innocent people.

Thin Man: Has only attacked innocent people + his attack/defense on xyz (which makes him look more suspicous to me).

Patrick: major lurking. contradictory play re dylan. (probably the least scummy of those listed; based on the PBPA, schismated, xyz, and dylan are probably more scummy).

[Patrick]

Patrick: major lurking. contradictory play re dylan. (probably the least scummy of those listed; based on the PBPA, schismated, xyz, and dylan are probably more scummy).

I haven't been majorly lurking, I've posted more than several people, including you. Admittedly not a great achievement in this game, but I can't at all see why you've given me that tag. About a third of the players haven't really posted anything at all.

Can you point me to how I've contradicted myself on dylan?

I'm kind of confused how I got onto your top 3 list if 3 other guys who aren't on the list are scummier than me in your opinion.

[mneme]

Patrick: You have, but your posts looked fairly sporadic in my analysis. (18 posts from you this game, compared to 11 from YT (me)), when nested among all the other games you're playing in. Part of this may have been that my methodology improved through this search run, and you were fairly early in the run (I hadn't though of sorting by topic -- thus getting around the limitations of mafiascum searching by grouping all the posts in the game together).

Re Dylan: you've pointed out that he pretty much always plays this way (ie, badly) town or scum...but you've still got a vote on him. There are situations where simultaneously attacking and defending the same player makes sense, but it's still notable.

Re "top three" -- the top three rollup wasn't as thought through as the rest of the PBPA, so a second analsys of it revealed different priorities. I still like Rishi and TM, though.

[Rishi]

Rishi: attacked Mert for vote hopping. Attacked SSF for being SSF. Was at Gencon (Rishi: I was also at Gencon -- how was your con?) Very little content in total.

Hey there. I will note that you kind of say the same thing about every player, so it's hard to really differentiate what the degree of your suspicions are. It's true that I might have attacked ssf for just being himself, but that was only my second game with him. I didn't know if he always acted like that or if this was something different. I no longer feel like a newbie, but I think I was at that time. (Remember, this game was in hiatus for over a month.)

I know I haven't given much content, but there really isn't too much to say. The first day's lynch happened with relatively thin evidence and Day 2 hasn't been a huge improvement over Day 1. I will participate more once the game starts to get going, but I don't really see a reason to say much just yet. You can accuse me of lurking, but I generally answer anything that's directed at me. If I missed a question or a comment about me, let me know.

Anyway, I don't have any major suspicions at this point. I figure someone will slip up sooner or later.

By the way, Gen Con was fun. Exhausting, but fun. I think I averaged about 3 hours of sleep at night. Did you play any Werewolf? If so, we might have been playing together. Weird.

[mneme]

Rishi: No, not werewolf for me at Gencon -- was too busy (though some of the same people I played werewolf with at Origins were playing it there). 231...was a very lurkish post.

I said the same -kinds- of thing about each player because I was analyzing the same types of things when looking at posts. But some players were lighter (or more...focused) than others.

[Jack]

mneme sounds like scum trying to pretend to have genuine suspicions and failing

[Thin_Man]

mneme sounds like scum trying to pretend to have genuine suspicions and failing

Can't disagree overmuch with this. It's almost like you selected the people who hadn't posted very much and the people who had attacked the dead people without actually thinking about whether they're actually scummy or not. That's fairly legitimate, I guess, but it's really lazy. I wouldn't mind knowing why he conveniently decided to vote for the one person on his list who was voting for him, or more specifically why he picked me over the other two.

Also, I reckon you're waay off re: rishi.

[mneme]

Er, TM? Jack? I listed everything everyone did. Not much significant happened -- but IMO, those who went with the flow and didn't really do much are most suspicious. I'm pretty convinced Rishi's scum, actually, and your (lacksidasical) defense of her is noted.

I picked you over Rishi because your attack on me is also fairly scummy in form -- coming into the game and following while not really giving anything resembling reasoning, whereas Rishi mostly just hasn't been here. Over Patrick because you're more scummy than he is (duh).

[Jack]

Er, TM? Jack? I listed everything everyone did. Not much significant happened -- but IMO, those who went with the flow and didn't really do much are most suspicious.

I'm pretty convinced Rishi's scum,

actually, and your (lacksidasical) defense of her is noted.

I picked you over Rishi because your attack on me is also fairly scummy in form -- coming into the game and following while not really giving anything resembling reasoning, whereas Rishi mostly just hasn't been here. Over Patrick because you're more scummy than he is (duh).

what now?

In your summary you said about rishi:

Rishi: attacked Mert for vote hopping. Attacked SSF for being SSF. Was at Gencon (Rishi: I was also at Gencon -- how was your con?) Very little content in total.

Now you are saying that you are convinced she's scum. I don't see anything that could cause that change, it seems you are lying. And are you seriously convinced that Rishi is scum and

even more

convinced that thin_man is scum? What exactly made you convinced that they are both scum?

Also, this:

Got to vote someone.

Implies that the three names you listed are equal and you just had to choose between them. But now you claim there's a distinct ranking.

You also say about dylan:

I've been holding on voting him mostly because I'd like to have a full game before pushing tha bandwagon too far

This says that you intended to vote dylan when we had more players, but he isn't in your top 3?


I see you've recanted you claim of the top three. I really doubt that a "second analysis" revealed different priorities, I think patrick called you out on bullshit and you backtracked. You also accused of scummy behavior re:dylan when it's exactly what you said you were going to do when more players got here.

[Thesp]

Day 2 Vote Count

Dylan

- 3 (Shanba, Patrick, xyzzy)

mneme

- 2 (Thin_Man, Jack)

Thin_Man

- 1 (mneme)

Not Voting

- 4 (Jdodge, schismatized, Rishi, dylan41985)

With 10 alive, it's 6 to lynch. I'm hunting replacements for dylan41985 and schismatized. Thanks!

[Rishi]

Er, TM? Jack? I listed everything everyone did. Not much significant happened -- but IMO, those who went with the flow and didn't really do much are most suspicious. I'm pretty convinced Rishi's scum, actually, and your (lacksidasical) defense of her is noted.

I picked you over Rishi because your attack on me is also fairly scummy in form -- coming into the game and following while not really giving anything resembling reasoning, whereas Rishi mostly just hasn't been here. Over Patrick because you're more scummy than he is (duh).

By the way, Rishi = he.

So you're fairly convinced that I am scum, huh? Just because I haven't been posting much and not been making any arguments?

Well, here's an argument. Even though I am your top suspect, I think you're focusing your attention in other places, because, well, it's much easier to start a bandwagon elsewhere than it is to start a bandwagon on me.

Let's face it, Thin_Man's original barrage of posts was kind of annoying. As we saw on Day 1, this is a group that can be easily convinced to lynch the annoying guy. (Thin_Man has been less annoying since then.)

[Jack]

I hate slow games. Can we get some more votes on mneme please?

[Shanba]

Well, here's an argument. Even though I am your top suspect, I think you're focusing your attention in other places, because, well, it's much easier to start a bandwagon elsewhere than it is to start a bandwagon on me.

That is a terrible reason not to vote for you. Absolutely terrible. If he thinks someone is scum, he should vote for them.

[Rishi]

Well, here's an argument. Even though I am your top suspect, I think you're focusing your attention in other places, because, well, it's much easier to start a bandwagon elsewhere than it is to start a bandwagon on me.

That is a terrible reason not to vote for you. Absolutely terrible. If he thinks someone is scum, he should vote for them.

But he's not. Why not? Maybe I'm fishing for reasons, but if he's absolutely convinced, then there must be a reason he's going elsewhere.

[Shanba]

Um, yeah, but it's not your job to provide them. :S

[mneme]

Now you are saying that you are convinced she's scum.

No, I'm not. I said "I'm pretty convinced she's scum". That's as much saying "I'm convinced she's scum" as saying "I'm almost sure you're a townie" is saying "I'm sure you're a townie."

Lynch All Liars cuts both ways, oddly enough.

Implies that the three names you listed are equal and you just had to choose between them. But now you claim there's a distinct ranking.

I never claimed there was a distinct ranking. I picked three people out of my analysis that looked fairly scummy (one I'd misread my own comments on, but never mind that). Later, I reevaluated my ranking based on TM and Rishi's later posts -- but in fact, thinking someone is more scummy than someone else (as Rishi's lurking was more scummy than Thin Man's stridency/lurking) isn't always enough to change your vote. Just changing your vote whenever you change priorities, even slightly is known as "vote hopping".

You also say about dylan:

I've been holding on voting him mostly because I'd like to have a full game before pushing tha bandwagon too far

This says that you intended to vote dylan when we had more players, but he isn't in your top 3?

Before I did some, you know, analysis? Yes, I did, or at least I wanted to see his response before committing. But no, on analysis of the game, I don't think he's in my top 3 -- his contributions have been horrid, but not out of his norm; no town tells, no scum tells, not much play, for that matter. I'd like to see a replacement before making judgment there.

You also accused of scummy behavior re:dylan when it's exactly what you said you were going to do when more players got here.

That's the second time you've misparaphrased me. Please stop doing so. I said I wanted to see what -dylan- (or his replacement) said, nothing to do with more players.

Ah, I see, you're looking later, where I said I wanted a full game, and thought "full game" meant "more players". Oddly enough, it actually meant "all the players" (including dylan).

[Rishi]

Now you are saying that you are convinced she's scum.

No, I'm not. I said "I'm pretty convinced she's scum". That's as much saying "I'm convinced she's scum" as saying "I'm almost sure you're a townie" is saying "I'm sure you're a townie."

Again...

Rishi = he.

Are you even reading the thread? You claim to be doing analysis but you miss simple things like this.

[Jack]

Now you are saying that you are convinced she's scum.

No, I'm not. I said "I'm pretty convinced she's scum". That's as much saying "I'm convinced she's scum" as saying "I'm almost sure you're a townie" is saying "I'm sure you're a townie."

The difference is negligible.

Lynch All Liars cuts both ways, oddly enough.

You're trying to say I should be lynched for saying "convinced" instead of "pretty convinced"?

Implies that the three names you listed are equal and you just had to choose between them. But now you claim there's a distinct ranking.

I never claimed there was a distinct ranking. I picked three people out of my analysis that looked fairly scummy (one I'd misread my own comments on, but never mind that). Later, I reevaluated my ranking based on TM and Rishi's later posts -- but in fact, thinking someone is more scummy than someone else (as Rishi's lurking was more scummy than Thin Man's stridency/lurking) isn't always enough to change your vote. Just changing your vote whenever you change priorities, even slightly is known as "vote hopping".

Are you serious? Thinking someone is scummier than someone else is a damn good reason to shift your vote to them. You appear worried about being seen as scummy for vote hopping, that's funny because being worried unnecessarily is also a scumtell.

You also say about dylan:

I've been holding on voting him mostly because I'd like to have a full game before pushing tha bandwagon too far

This says that you intended to vote dylan when we had more players, but he isn't in your top 3?

Before I did some, you know, analysis? Yes, I did, or at least I wanted to see his response before committing. But no, on analysis of the game, I don't think he's in my top 3 -- his contributions have been horrid, but not out of his norm; no town tells, no scum tells, not much play, for that matter. I'd like to see a replacement before making judgment there.

This is a possible explanation, but it doesn't look that likely from your post. The statement about dylan was in the same post as your "analysis", you could have changed it.

You also accused of scummy behavior re:dylan when it's exactly what you said you were going to do when more players got here.

That's the second time you've misparaphrased me. Please stop doing so. I said I wanted to see what -dylan- (or his replacement) said, nothing to do with more players.

Ah, I see, you're looking later, where I said I wanted a full game, and thought "full game" meant "more players". Oddly enough, it actually meant "all the players" (including dylan).

You misunderstand. You accused patrick of scummy behavior regarding dylan (saying he acts same as scum and town and still voting him), yet you yourself said the same thing about dylan and expressed intention to vote him. There's no real difference between the two.



Thread needs more posting.

[Shanba]

You also say about dylan:

I've been holding on voting him mostly because I'd like to have a full game before pushing tha bandwagon too far

This says that you intended to vote dylan when we had more players, but he isn't in your top 3?

Before I did some, you know, analysis? Yes, I did, or at least I wanted to see his response before committing. But no, on analysis of the game, I don't think he's in my top 3 -- his contributions have been horrid, but not out of his norm; no town tells, no scum tells, not much play, for that matter. I'd like to see a replacement before making judgment there.

This is a possible explanation, but it doesn't look that likely from your post. The statement about dylan was in the same post as your "analysis", you could have changed it.

Actually, this is interesting. The mneme case didn't interest me until I noticed this, but what he said in that quote implies he was going to vote for someone without even knowing what he was voting him for. That deserves a

FoS: mneme

.

[Patrick]

mneme: I noted that dylan contributed similarly badly in other games, but still said that I didn't like his posts 5-6. More self conscious than the other games I'd seen where he was town. I suppose you can call that fairly non commital on my part, but it's not a contradiction.

I'm still not really seeing the Rishi hate, but I'd definitely like mneme to explain the discrepancy pointed out by Jack there.

[Patrick]

Shanba, any post in particular that led to you having a hunch that HH was likely protown?

[Shanba]

No post in particular, no.