California Trilogy - Dantès in Fresno (Game Over!)


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Post Post #75 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:15 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Lets talk about my "misrepresentations"
He portrayed MOS's vote in a way that was not true. That is a misrepresentation.
How do you know this? How did you know this? MoS has since explaind his method, and unless YOU KNOW SOMETHING that we all don't, this was not a misrepresentation.
He asked Oman why he didn't vote for me, when Oman had. That is a misrepresentation.
I made a slight mistake. To call that a misrepresentation is certainly dumb. Something "easily tracable" like that must be a mistake. That seems fairly obvious to me (and should the town).
And the chaff he's spewing about me about putting MGM after no lynch, that is also a misrepresentation.
You make absolutely NO sense, Scruffs! Let me ask you again, and let me put in Italics.

Would you rather NOT LYNCH ANYONE than lynch MGM? Do you seriously think that a NO LYNCH is acceptable at this point in the game? Why did you choose to include it in your vote?


I didn't include it (and if you find me bloodthirsty, you need to check your mafia theory) and I won't include it unless it is MATHEMATICALLY RELEVANT to (Or, if we, by CHANCE, have a CONFIRMED INNOCENT, I would include NO LYNCH and then LEAVE THAT PERSON'S NAME OFF THE LIST).

Why would you RATHER a no lynch to a lynch of MGM (that is in STONE, according to your voting!)

This is NOT OMGUS (as he says his is. Mine is based on his PLAY)

Vote: Scruffs, Zindaras, Mgm

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Post Post #76 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:57 pm

Post by Mgm »

Erm, I'm more interested in finding out why I'm even on so many lists to start with even if it's at the end. I don't remember doing anything suspicious that's worth voting me.
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Post Post #77 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:08 pm

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

I thought you'd know from C+H that Skruffs and sense don't go together Lee....


Anyway time to channel my favorite brit,

vote MoS

for "Highly Motivated Divestment of Responsbility"

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Post Post #78 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:09 pm

Post by Mr. Grey »

Vote Count:
11 to lynch.

Skruffs: 5 (Cogito Ergo Sum, jeep, Oman, VitaminR, Zindaras)
Cogito Ergo Sum: 1 (Mgm)
logicticus: 1 (Mastermind of Sin)
LoudmouthLee: 1 (Skruffs)
Zindaras: 1 (LoudmouthLee)

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Post Post #79 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:57 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Erm, I'm more interested in finding out why I'm even on so many lists to start with even if it's at the end. I don't remember doing anything suspicious that's worth voting me.
Only speaking for myself, you are on my list solely for the way that Scruffs has you listed. You are my 3rd choice to be listed. I have simply voted for you because Scruffs' illogical charms have totally escaped me right now.

I want to see if there's a link between you and him.

Unvote, Vote: Scruffs
, Zindaras, MGM

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Post Post #80 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:11 pm

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

Ah, the game has finally started. I don't like the random vote generator tags anyway, so I will join an old-fashioned band wagon to try to get information as quickly as possible. And I hope that participation here will be better than in Loudmouthlee's mini, where 3-4 townies got modkilled. The new gimmick of more votes as sprae looks fun, but I'll save that for another post. Anyway:

Vote Skruffs
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Post Post #81 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:38 pm

Post by PlaysWithSquirrels »

I don't really understand why people are utilizing the cordecet (sp?) voting so quickly. There really isn't a reason to spew a whole list of votes right off the bat.

Second, I'm really uncomfortable and confused by the early bandwagoning on my friend and yours, Pantsman (aka Skruffs).

I'm voting for Dragon Phoenix for being the most recent person to jump on the Skruffs bandwagon and because starting your post with "Ah, this game has finally started" is a minor scumtell.

Vote: Dragon Phoenix
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Post Post #82 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:45 pm

Post by jeep »

Why wouldn't we use it? It's a lot like a vote with a handful of FOS... ;) I think it should be employed as soon as you want to start ranking people you think might be acting scummy...

So having said that:

vote: Skruff
, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee

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Post Post #83 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:01 pm

Post by PlaysWithSquirrels »

jeep wrote:Why wouldn't we use it? It's a lot like a vote with a handful of FOS... ;) I think it should be employed as soon as you want to start ranking people you think might be acting scummy...

So having said that:

vote: Skruff
, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee
Bolded because you're contributing to my point rather than detracting from it. Who's gonna have a list of multiple scummy people on page 1?

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Post Post #84 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:13 pm

Post by Mgm »

Nitpick: We're on page 4, Squirrels.
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Post Post #85 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:19 pm

Post by jeep »

PlaysWithSquirrels wrote:
jeep wrote:I think it should be employed
as soon as you want
to start ranking people you think
might
be acting scummy...
Bolded because you're contributing to my point rather than detracting from it. Who's gonna have a list of multiple scummy people on page 1?
I'll see your bolding and raise you an underline, or two.

-JEEP

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Post Post #86 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:23 pm

Post by LoudmouthLee »

jeep wrote:Why wouldn't we use it? It's a lot like a vote with a handful of FOS... ;) I think it should be employed as soon as you want to start ranking people you think might be acting scummy...

So having said that:

vote: Skruff
, PlaysWithSquirrels, LoudMouthLee
I would love to know why I am now on your list, especially we're voting for the same person.

Is Jeep exhibiting a scumtell?

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Post Post #87 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:27 pm

Post by Mgm »

I'll see your bolding and raise you an underline, or two.
I call. ;)
Is Jeep exhibiting a scumtell?
I'd be surprised. He literally wrote the book on the subject.
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Post Post #88 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 9:33 pm

Post by Oman »

I don't see the scumtell in there LML.

I'd like to reiterrate to everyone that I was voting Skruffs but I do NOT feel that LML saying I wasn't is scummy. I think it was simply what it was, a poor mistake.

Dragon Pheonix put ona seventh vote, while I don't find that incredibly scummy at this stage, I still note it.

As jeep said, my non-bolded votes are still preferential votes, but act more like FoSes

Unvote Vote: Skruffs
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Post Post #89 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:17 pm

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

Oman wrote:Dragon Pheonix
Who's that?
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Post Post #90 (ISO) » Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:22 pm

Post by Mgm »

Elementary, my dear DP. It's a figment of Oman's imagination.
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Post Post #91 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:03 am

Post by Zindaras »

LoudmouthLee wrote:I find it
very
interesting that Zindie felt a need for clarification on this point. That question makes me very uneasy. Quite like Zindy is looking for a way to seem more townlike. It's completely a hunch, but it's definately good enough for a D1 initial vote.
I just wanted to know if Bah posts are allowed. I believe I've asked the selfsame questions in more than one previous game. This is nothing but a null tell.
I plan on using the Condorcet voting method here, does THAT make me scum, too?
For someone who apparently enjoys bluster, you are quick to attack me over that post.
Skruffs wrote:LML - why don't you have no lynch in yours? Taking your point forward, isn't it odd that you would rather see ANYONE get lynched then go to a no lynch? That strikes me as blood thirsty.
Lynch>No Lynch. Do we really have to go over all those arguments again? I thought that was only necessary in newbies.
Skruffs wrote:Zindaras, is there anyone else in this game you have noticed, or are you explicitly focused on getting see me to die?
Perish, ignoble villain!
Mgm wrote:I'd be surprised. He literally wrote the book on the subject.
Scumtells are usually unconscious things.

I must say I'm thoroughly amused by the Skruffswagon. However, though Skruffs is despicable scum whose continued existence is an affront to nature (<3), there are people who are more deservant of my vote.

I just haven't found them yet. So I'll just go with my gut for now and do the following:

Vote: LoudmouthLee
, Dragon Phoenix

Unvote
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68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
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Post Post #92 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:04 am

Post by Zindaras »

EBWOP: That was silly. *giggles*

Unvote, Vote: LoudmouthLee
, Dragon Phoenix.
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Post Post #93 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 12:59 am

Post by Skruffs »

VitR -> Opportunistic. IT is not standard town behavior to not care who gets lynched as long as someone does. In this particular situation, that would also include yourself.
If you do *not* like the idea of a no lynch, then you need to place a list with everyone in front of no lynch, signifying that, because as it stands, if me, Zindaras, or MGM is not lynched, you don't care if someone else gets lynched OR we no lynch.

Also interesting: VitaminR immediately jumping to answer questions I have posited to LML, while at the same time, supposedly, voting me for putting MGM after no lynch. Please look back on that in later days, everyone.

"He never said MoS' vote was anything it wasn't. He just offered his opinion on the way in which MoS voted. "
When he asked about whether MOS rerolled or not when he rolled a number that was already taken, he was misrepresenting what MOS did. If you want to say he didn't understand and so it wasn't misrepresenting, that's fine, but LML went to the trouble of 'misunderstanding vocally', without looking at MOS's list in other than a passing glance. I find it strange that you just write off LML's 'mistakes' and are at hte same time eager to defend him and join him against me.

"Erm... no, that is what we call a mistake. Misrepresentation is willful. Unless you're arguing that LML was trying to get us all to think that Oman didn't vote for you (which seems a fruitless endeavor at best), that is not misrepresentation. "
Misrepresent: to represent incorrectly, improperly, or falsely.
phail.

The last two bits basically say that I have a different view from LML, and then you vote me.

The reasons for voting me? FOR BEING DEFENSIVE.
Hmm. I'm really sorry, VitaminR. I thought when a townie had four.. no wait five with your vote, votes on him 3 pages into the game for only wanting to lynch a few of the possible suspects for STATED REASONS, that he had the right to
defend himself
.
IF it is scummy for a townie
not
to roll over and take it, please state up now, I'd hate to complicate your wagoning with points of defense. I can be quiet and let you get me lynched if you want.


Again, town, in regards to VitaminR, please note that he has just sided right up next to LML in attacking me.

LML -
"How do you know this? How did you know this? MoS has since explained his method, and unless YOU KNOW SOMETHING that we all don't, this was not a misrepresentation. '
If you had actually READ the post you would have seen that every dice he rolled was one less than the one before it, signifying a smaller pool of people. Not paying attention does not give you the right to be suspicious of those who do.

"I made a slight mistake. To call that a misrepresentation is certainly dumb. Something "easily traceable" like that must be a mistake. That seems fairly obvious to me (and should the town). "
What's interesting is that you goading Oman to vote when he already has was an "easily traceable mistake", however, me putting MGM after no lynch, what is that? Is that something scum would do, immediately saying who their scum buddies were by saying "I'd rather no lynch than lynch...this...one...person...." ?
If so, I would like an explanation as to why you think that is so.

Would I rather no-lynch than lynch MGM at this point in the game? Well, since you read my first post, you
obviously
saw that at the beginning of the parargraph with my list-vote, I put, "I should like to stir the pot a bit to start things off."
I then looked at the mod's example of the list on page one. It goes as follows:
List: Vote: G, K, L, No Lynch, P
I then editted hte letters with names, adding a few here and there. I put MGM at the end because there was a letter at the end of hte first example. Since the whole point of it was to get those players to talk, I( didn't really care if no-lynch was in front of someone or behind someone or up there at all.

I gave some players I have not played with before, like jeep, benefit of the doubt, because I didn't want to list EVERYONE in the list. As I said in my previous post, I am more than willing to move MGM in front of no lynch. It being the very beginning of the day, on day one, with no information, the whole setup was intended to stir up discussion. You of course, you know, saw that, and have been gracious enough to stir up a good bit of discussion by 'turning up the charm'. So to answer your question, I do not have an opinion on MGM. That is why he is on the 'to vote' list, at all. You can take that to mean that I would also rather no-lynch instead of lynching (when I posted that), Zindaras, IH, cubsfan, oman, jeep, and many others. You did not choose to take that opinion, instead focussing on the one person I put after no lynch.

Let me ask you - If you seriously think no-lynch is not an acceptable option at this point in the game, then why do you have no-lynch as preferable an option as anyone else not explicitly stated in your list? Your list states that after me, zindaras, and mgm, you don't care if someone else gets lynched or we no-lynch. Please keep in mind that more people would have to vote no-lynch than for ANY of the five or six or seven people ahead of it on my list for it to be worth
anything
. statistics wise.

Fourth misrepresentation - My voting for MGM after no-lynch is *not* in stone. If you had read the last post, I asked if you wanted me to put MGM in front of no-lynch. I said I Would completely fine with doing that - if you wanted me to. How does that equate to "It's in stone"? You are gerry-mandering, now.

I do like how in your post after that you explain that you are voting MGM to see if there is a link between me and him. I think the stronger link is between you and VitR. :)


Pooky - I resent that. You are the second person in this game from C&H to insult my intelligence. I do not insult your intelligence. Please respect mine. There is no reason we can not play this game without resorting to name-calling and popularity contests.

Zindaras - if you are going to unvote me, please retract your statement that I am a villainous cur that needs to be lynched, or else, it will seem you are trying to get other people to do your dirty work for you. KThx.

MGM - You haven't done anything that I am aware of that is scummy yet. I posted my list either simulposting with yours or right before. Scum are being opportunistic about this whole thing. I can't imagine I would have___ votes by now if I was really scum.

Dragon Phoenix - What kind of information are you looking for from me? Was that an ask to claim?

I'm at 7-votes, four to lynch. THe earlier ploy of putting me as second on the list and then 'bumping me up' by LML, hopefully, should not go unnoticed.


All of that being said, I will be working outside today. I tend to die awfully quick in large games, so please, everyone, before you put another vote on me, make sure you actually have a good reason to and make sure I haven't been already bumped up to a closer lynching range before you do it, okay?

Question: If someone leads an attack on someone who's already the largest wagon in the game, is it suspicious or not if they state that they find it scummy that the person they just attacked is being 'defensive'?



Last note: I like how nobody even responded to cubsfan on page three. "Skruffs is already at four votes??"
and how PWS who stated a similar thing got two votes for his trouble.
Is there a PROBLEM with people questioning a bandwagon, jeep?
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Post Post #94 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 1:07 am

Post by Talitha »

I just wanted to check in and say that I am aware that they game has started but I'm too tired to contribute anything meaningful right now! The game appears to be advancing rapidly which is a good thing. I'll catch up with where we are at, tomorrow.

I also wanted to note that IH appears in the player list where it should be DP.

Until tomorrow, bon soir, tout le monde.
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Post Post #95 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 2:51 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Fourth misrepresentation - My voting for MGM after no-lynch is *not* in stone. If you had read the last post, I asked if you wanted me to put MGM in front of no-lynch. I said I Would completely fine with doing that - if you wanted me to. How does that equate to "It's in stone"? You are gerry-mandering, now.
If you're trying to tell me that I can't look at voting patterns to discuss guilt or innocence, then what's the point of playing mafia? it has been discussed that I have not made ANY misrepresentations. So Scruffs, I would appreciate that you back down, and I'm going to explain why.

Scruffs acted this same exact way to me in a recently completed game. He continually attacked me for absolutely no reason, giving unsound logic and really awful points. Even though the town KNEW all of his points were awful and his logic lacking, I continued, out of a unrequited need, to respond to him. How did it end? Me, getting lynched, as an innocent.

The fact that I'm appearing in so many lists right now is reminicent of that game. It's angering me greatly.
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Post Post #96 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:01 am

Post by Dragon Phoenix »

Skruffs wrote:Dragon Phoenix - What kind of information are you looking for from me? Was that an ask to claim?
I am looking for information in general, not from you specifically. Whether you claim or not is your decision, I am not pushing for it (I usually do not claim myself even at lynch -1, unless I have a power role or unless I am scum simulating a power role). There is a lot we can learn on days to come on how bandwagons are formed and pushed forward or not, and reactions of other players as well as the bandwagonee.
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Post Post #97 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:31 am

Post by Zindaras »

Skruffs wrote:VitR -> Opportunistic. IT is not standard town behavior to not care who gets lynched as long as someone does. In this particular situation, that would also include yourself.
If you do *not* like the idea of a no lynch, then you need to place a list with everyone in front of no lynch, signifying that, because as it stands, if me, Zindaras, or MGM is not lynched, you don't care if someone else gets lynched OR we no lynch.
You want everyone to make Condorcet votes of everyone? Because that's what this implies.
I gave some players I have not played with before, like jeep, benefit of the doubt, because I didn't want to list EVERYONE in the list.
And why did you give them the benefit of the doubt? Why some specific players and not others?
Zindaras - if you are going to unvote me, please retract your statement that I am a villainous cur that needs to be lynched, or else, it will seem you are trying to get other people to do your dirty work for you. KThx.
Have you not grasped what I've been doing? I daresay it would be quite obvious, when someone says things like "villainous cur", "ignoble villain" and "god-forsaken semblance of a man" and confirm votes someone 20 minutes into the game, it is quite obvious that that person is joking around.
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Finished: 159 (120 Town, 33 Mafia, 5 Other, 1 Cult, 4 Cultivated)
68 Wins, 71 Losses
Town: 52 Wins, 54 Losses (2 Wins as Cult)
Mafia: 13 Wins, 15 Losses (1 Win as Cult)
Other: 3 Wins, 1 Loss (1 Win as Cult)
Cult: 0 Wins, 1 Loss
Cultivated: 4 Wins, 0 Losses
59 Survived, 31 Lynched, 60 Killed
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PookyTheMagicalBear
PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
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PookyTheMagicalBear
Pooky got your back
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Joined: August 17, 2003

Post Post #98 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:37 am

Post by PookyTheMagicalBear »

@Skruffs, my point is more about your playstyle than your personal attributes. I can not make any guesses as to what sort of person you are since I've never met you and I will not choose to make any such guesses.

However from what I've seen of your playstyle so far, this is just how you "roll".

Also to clarify my point on MoS, the reason I am highly suspicious of him at this point is not so much the fact that he has chosen to dilute the power of his vote to meaninglessness by supposedly making it completely random but the fact that he spent so much effort in doing so.

If he had the time to roll 19 die and actually list out each player, why couldn't he have spent that time constructively to actually bring out an attack on someone? I can see random voting as a copout to putting in actual effort, but I don't think I've seen people put
actual effort
(which rolling all those dice would be) into making sure their vote is completely meaningless.

In summary,

Die MoS, Die Suck Die!
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"I hope one day I can openly play as wolfy as Pooky and get zero pressure for it grumble grumble."
-MariaR


"I can't even look at the game anymore.
That evil teddy bear has got everyone twirling by his thumb.
It's like witnessing an slow but unavoidable train crash you can't stop."

-Norwee
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Mgm
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Location: Dordrecht, Netherlands

Post Post #99 (ISO) » Tue Aug 28, 2007 5:09 am

Post by Mgm »

To make it clear: I don't particularly like using Concordet voting this early in the game when everything is still too hazy, so I'll do things the old fashioned way.
FOS: VitR, I don't like it when people use defensiveness to attack someone. When you're the top bandwagon that alone is more than enough reason to allow for a defense.

@Skruffs, I want you to answer Zindy's second question. in post 98.

Tags removed. Please use bold tags only for voting and unvoting. - Mod
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"Logic is a systematic method to come to the wrong conclusion."
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