STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Cerberus v666]

No, I'm not a sore loser. I hate the simple fact that I've wasted a year on this site, and have yet to actually see how ANYONE approaches the game as scum. I enjoyed playing with the people, within the confines of the game, but I loathe your decision to share x personal facts within the pt, such that othersw will be denied access to it on that basis, when THERE ARE AN INCREDIBLY LARGE NUMBER OF WAYS FOR YOU TO TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT PERSONAL STUFF WITHOUT FUCKING WITH MY GROWTH AS A PLAYER.

That's all. good job otherwise.

Oh, and titus, it's really sucky that this was a perfect opportunity for you to actually discuss your vca method with us but it was foiled by getting the wrong role..

[Varsoon]

As for the issue of the scum team not releasing their PT, it was a decision they made fairly early on.
I am willing to go through the scum PT and edit/delete any messages that the scum team doesn't want shared/feel are too personal.
Scum PTs are often a strong resource for all players to draw upon after a game, not just for meta, but to learn how the game was played in order to better their own play.
If every member of the scum team signs off on it, I am willing to make the PT public after making the appropriate edits/deletes.
Otherwise, I do ask that you all respect the scum team's wishes to keep their private chat private.

That said,

I will be making EVERY alliance/fusion/neighborhood public unless anyone sends me a PM asking for theirs to stay private.

[TheFuzzylogic99]

Thanks for the Game Vasoon..def in SUM2....Thinking hard about being in Vasoon Mafia,

Don't know about anyone else but I had a hard time with the alliance aspect. Part of that was bc of my bad play,
The alliance limitation was my least favorite aspect of the game.....still I enjoyed the challenge

Vasoon
Noooooooooooooooooooooo,,,,, just kidding I am open to that

[Fro99er]

No, I'm not a sore loser. I hate the simple fact that I've wasted a year on this site, and have yet to actually see how ANYONE approaches the game as scum. I enjoyed playing with the people, within the confines of the game, but I loathe your decision to share x personal facts within the pt, such that othersw will be denied access to it on that basis, when THERE ARE AN INCREDIBLY LARGE NUMBER OF WAYS FOR YOU TO TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT PERSONAL STUFF WITHOUT FUCKING WITH MY GROWTH AS A PLAYER.

That's all. good job otherwise.

Oh, and titus, it's really sucky that this was a perfect opportunity for you to actually discuss your vca method with us but it was foiled by getting the wrong role..

Well every other time I've ever rolled scum I released the scum PT.
I'm sorry you've had a bad experience but I'm not releasing this one and I wish you'd be a bit more undertanding. But You do you.

Good game.

[Cerberus v666]

Well, whether or I'm understanding or not, you won't change your decision...but by being understanding, I display tacit approval of that decision, which isn't the case, so no, I'm not going to be understanding. Because I like Varsoon though, I won't say more about it, and will instead go and do what ika suggested and go to the appropriate forum for mafia discussion and see about having all games have mandatory pt releases, or at least having a tag when the game is made of mandatory pt release or not, so I can only join the games where this won't happen to me.

[Titus]

I am willing to talk at length privately or publicly.

I feel many of the town roles were op for scum not having a roleblocker or strongman vanillaizer. NicCage and RR, if they were aware of each other and playing optimally could have aligned every night and made a near impenetrable circle of protection. The emotion behind the rant was genuine and we also had issue with the fake claims obviously.

Giving my fake flavor to Ricastle and him saying ZOMG you're scum was really frustrating and forced us to kill him. At least I got partial info out of Ricastle.

4 masons, 3 double voters, reviving watcher, cop, rolecop, lie detector, roleblocker that can be confirmable, mass commuter, dayvig, redirector, and an innocent child that's partially unkillable. Real real frustration there.

[T S O]

well played Xtoxm

[T S O]

I don't even know why we're not releasing the scum PT, it's not me doing it, and it's kinda shit for everyone else.

[Drixx]

No, I'm not a sore loser. I hate the simple fact that I've wasted a year on this site, and have yet to actually see how ANYONE approaches the game as scum. I enjoyed playing with the people, within the confines of the game, but I loathe your decision to share x personal facts within the pt, such that othersw will be denied access to it on that basis, when THERE ARE AN INCREDIBLY LARGE NUMBER OF WAYS FOR YOU TO TALK TO EACH OTHER ABOUT PERSONAL STUFF WITHOUT FUCKING WITH MY GROWTH AS A PLAYER.

That's all. good job otherwise.

Oh, and titus, it's really sucky that this was a perfect opportunity for you to actually discuss your vca method with us but it was foiled by getting the wrong role..

Well every other time I've ever rolled scum I released the scum PT.
I'm sorry you've had a bad experience but I'm not releasing this one and I wish you'd be a bit more undertanding. But You do you.

Good game.

If something in there that was personal was said is

really

the reason, then logically it makes sense to take up Varsoon's offer to redact the personal stuff and then everyone's in good shape. Nobody has something personal shared where they don't want it, and the town side can learn from the scum side.

The odds are low to be assigned as scum, and people go

years

sometimes between being scum. There's a reason they want to read the PT, and it's not because they want to see someone's personal posts.

In the 110ish games I played on another site before coming here, I rolled scum 3 times. Some people just have that luck and never ever get to play as scum. I have three completed scum games on site here, but I replaced into two of them (and won both). The one I started fresh, I thought someone was the SK and pushed for their lynch and the real SK wasn't having me stick around to keep looking for the SK and killed me night one. That player came down to a LYLO spot before losing. Nearly pulled off an SK game, which was pretty impressive to watch, even more so because he killed like 3 or 4 of the scum team. Guy was on top of it.

[Titus]

Drixx, I did discuss the theory and evolution with you. All that was legit, the analysis was me trying not to confirm townies. :p You may copy paste it here if you wish.

That real draft took several hours and the faking a couple more. I couldn't just paraphrase given the length.

[Fro99er]

Well, whether or I'm understanding or not, you won't change your decision...but by being understanding, I display tacit approval of that decision, which isn't the case, so no, I'm not going to be understanding. Because I like Varsoon though, I won't say more about it, and will instead go and do what ika suggested and go to the appropriate forum for mafia discussion and see about having all games have mandatory pt releases, or at least having a tag when the game is made of mandatory pt release or not, so I can only join the games where this won't happen to me.

Relax.

After I am done drinking with my wife (tomorrow) I will work with Varsoon to scrub the personal stuff. I'm still fairly new so I didn't know that could be done.

Jesus fuck.

In not doing it to hide meta. I couldn't give two shits unlike you. That's why I've been fine releasing every other one.

Also, I fooled the shit out of you

[Fro99er]

Pedit oh drixx to FFS

[Skullduggery]

Fun game to spectate. Congrats, Scum team.

[Fro99er]

I don't even know why we're not releasing the scum PT, it's not me doing it, and it's kinda shit for everyone else.

Had to do w Ika's replace out.

Jesus TSO I just rolled scum with you twice now and you know I don't care normally.

[Cerberus v666]

Sure, those aren valid points, titus, but every single one of your roles was extremely strong. Seems like a nightmare to balance, really.

Pedit: it was 99% the fact that you gave me links showing how sonics accusations were BS. I didn't even read the links, the simple fact that you gave them to me was meaningful..:p

[Xtoxm]

This flatters me a bit but it will look good on my record.

Ftr RR, i'm not the one blocking the PT and i'm sorry Varsoon uses the awful policy of blocking PTs. We have an awesome 75 page scum PT and it sucks that you won't be able to view it.

As for your masonry logic ... since when are ICs designed to live longer than N4, let alone lylo. I'm surprised no one else really questioned this logic at any point in the game.

As I brought up with Varsoon already, my only issues with this game were the shitty fakeclaims and Vez/Beer being flavour confirmed to each other. If anything it felt a bit scumsided if you fix those two small things, but a lot of towns powerful roles died early so maybe not.

I'm glad we won, I was terrified of another night with no kill possible after that kill on mastin failed.

This is from my PT monologue on D9:

I am not fucking with them. I've just had a kill unexpectedly fail and i'm legitimately concerned the same will happen again tonight. Clearly RR was able to protect mastin, so i'm currently having a punt at drawing this protection away from mastin. Not expecting much, but might as well try, I figure.

Milestone: First successful rolefish of Steven, Day 9. Not bulletproof. Doctor who can choose to self protect? Something weird I can't think of? I wish those two hadn't refused to rolecop RR. "he'll claim soon" they said. Yeah?? D9, where's the claim? Thanks for that.

Also, new paranoia: Hermit is a mass wagon roleblocker? He's the rave guy, after all. I really can't afford to spend tonight dancing. Can't avoid voting Hermit though, so i'll just ignore this thought.

So yeah, I want to hammer Hermit, but I want to at least try and improve my chances should tonight go wrong for me. It's also weirding me out that RR is so willing to rush this day and makes me think he has another card up his sleeve.

[Titus]

Cerb, context on last post?

[T S O]

I don't even know why we're not releasing the scum PT, it's not me doing it, and it's kinda shit for everyone else.

Had to do w Ika's replace out.

Jesus TSO I just rolled scum with you twice now and you know I don't care normally.

That wasn't a dig at you, I generally disagree with the policy of not releasing. I just think that the stuff you want removed should be removed, and then let people see it. This applies to all members of the scumteam.

[Varsoon]

@Cerb/Drixx: I can understand your frustration in regards to the setup. I apologize that you think it was broken. By design, I wanted scum to know who Steven was before he could be confirmed as an IC. I included several town roles that could aide Steven and made it such that the scum team would have to dedicate several resources towards learning Steven's actual role and killing him. I am sorry that you did not enjoy this aspect of the game, and I don't blame you for basing your play around an assumption about the setup.

In regards to me 'slipping' about Mastin being Connie, I hold that I did not. If you perceived my post about a Steven/Connie fusion as a slip, but I hold that I was engaging a hypothetical situation. The same sort of assumptions were made constantly in this game--players assumed that certain flavor roles could not be a part of the Yellow Diamond Authority (such as Centipeetle) or that the Yellow Diamond Authority would only contain Gem-race characters. I don't think it's wrong to think these sorts of things (honestly, I should have just called the scum faction 'Homeworld Gems', but I wanted to play up/keep multiball ambiguous) but I do think it is a mis-step to base play upon them.

@Titus: There was only ever one true mason pair, and they were lovers and taken out of the game early. I can understand your frustration--both teams were very stacked as far as power goes. In the final design stages, we were unsure of how balanced the game was, with bork saying it seemed a bit townsided but with almost all of town's power gated behind the special mechanic, it would be hard to tell for sure. I think that's the major thing--a lot of these roles have limited shots and have to first ally themselves in order to even get access to their powers, whereas scum's powers were mostly available to them from the start and were not very limited. I went into this knowing balance may be an issue and that swing was definitely an issue. I am glad the game made it to a lylo situation, honestly.

[Fro99er]

That wasn't a dig at you, I generally disagree with the policy of not releasing. I just think that the stuff you want removed should be removed, and then let people see it. This applies to all members of the scumteam.

Like I said. I didn't even know that was possible.

Happy to do it

[Drixx]

I am willing to talk at length privately or publicly.

I feel many of the town roles were op for scum not having a roleblocker or strongman vanillaizer. NicCage and RR, if they were aware of each other and playing optimally could have aligned every night and made a near impenetrable circle of protection. The emotion behind the rant was genuine and we also had issue with the fake claims obviously.

Giving my fake flavor to Ricastle and him saying ZOMG you're scum was really frustrating and forced us to kill him. At least I got partial info out of Ricastle.

4 masons, 3 double voters, reviving watcher, cop, rolecop, lie detector, roleblocker that can be confirmable, mass commuter, dayvig, redirector, and an innocent child that's partially unkillable. Real real frustration there.

You feel that way, but you do realize this would have been a very fast and brutal dismantling of the town by the scum team if you hadn't made that slip, right?

Neither of us caught it on the first read, either. We thought you were referring to Sonic getting his Gladiate refilled twice instead of saying he would get the

refiller ability

AND get the gladiate refilled. Once we realized you were saying both things, we had a really long talk and quite a lot of work went into concluding that you were scum based upon that slip.

We got Sonic on the false premise that our beach buddies neighborhood wouldn't have scum in it, as that would be broken (*Glares at Varsoon*) and would have meant whomever was assigned Steven had basically signed up to waste their time for 2 months anticipating being able to conftown and become Innnocent Child, only to be strongman murdered in the night phase before they could do so. If this game were somehow played 100 times concurrently, around 75% of the time or so, Steven would be killed just before he could trigger his IC. That's really bad design and would piss off every person assigned that role.

And since our protect was pretty limited, we couldn't have just kept nic around forever. We do feel like since we had to arrange alliances publicly, scum was able to stop us being allied and because we weren't allied we couldn't protect Nic when he got killed near the end. Since Xtoxm was godfather (seriously?), we don't think he killed KC out of cop fear, but instead to stop us being allied and having access to allied powers. That let nic die and ultimately finished off the snatching of defeat from the jaws of victory which Grapes began.

Poor grapes ... I'm beating up on him a bit. But seriously. We had an unassailable position as town and .... sigh. So much effort just negated for reasons I'm really interested in hearing. Need to know what in the world Grapes was thinking.

I'd also like to know why on earth Vezok asked the game to kill his mod confirmed mason partner.

Anything else I want to know is in the scum thread so that will wait for whatever to decide whether I can go looking or not.

[T S O]

Actually, reading through previous PT's - a lot of the time I tend to make statements which you feel are insulting towards you, but which are not actually meant like that. I hope when I clarify them afterwards, that there's no lingering resentment or anything, since my insults tend to be quite blunt.

[Drixx]

Also, I fooled the shit out of you

There's a difference between us seeing that your claim was similar to Xtoxm's and wanting to consider what that meant ... and I will always tell people to stop and wait to hammer when a watch or a track result is given. If you know someone visited someone else, but no death or negative impact has been reported ... what you're seeing could be a lot of things. It was bad to assume immediately that it meant you were scum. Farside came in with the info that sealed you as scum while I was typing that post, and you self hammered too, if I am remembering correctly. It felt like there were posts going up every 5 seconds at that point.

[Drixx]

Actually, reading through previous PT's - a lot of the time I tend to make statements which you feel are insulting towards you, but which are not actually meant like that. I hope when I clarify them afterwards, that there's no lingering resentment or anything, since my insults tend to be quite blunt.

I'm actually quite nervous that our hydra PT will end up with a bunch of people hating my offhand comments. Hopefully not. Varsoon enjoyed them at least!

[Titus]

It wasn't a slip. I would have caught Sonic's role anyway. Abilities refill. Sonic's role was deducable.

Scum won solely because town imploded and we buddied the fuck out of you RR. Steven doesn't die that night in 95% of games because 5 masons should have seen too many and fuck no would a mod ever include more masons than the scumteam. This game had many many confirmable town roles. Every town role could confirm as town almost.

Killing KC was solely framing people at that point. Xtoxm needed every single available lynch.