Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[VampanezeHunter]

I still don't hink I should Hammer him but if most of the town want me to then I will.

[Nelly632]

My god lets all listen to Muerrto because he goes by JOIN dates... NOOB lol... Come on guys lets vote me off already so you all can be a Lunch or lose...

[somestrangeflea]

My god lets all listen to Muerrto because he goes by JOIN dates... NOOB lol... Come on guys lets vote me off already so you all can be a Lunch or lose...

If you're going to insist on acting immaturely for the remainder of the game, I'd much prefer your replacement than your lynch, to be honest.

I'd much prefer though if you'd actually stay and play Mafia...

[Muerrto]

My god lets all listen to Muerrto because he goes by JOIN dates... NOOB lol... Come on guys lets vote me off already so you all can be a Lunch or lose...

Are you three? Jesus. First you personally attack everyone for 'not knowing how to play'. Now you call me a noob?

You wanna get personal? Let's get personal.

YOU speed hammered. YOU thought RC'ing was bad. YOU made the noob mistake(if it was a mistake) and EVERYONE agrees those were both BAD moves. So who's the noob?

I agree with Flea, let's get him replaced whether he requests or not. Bleh.

[Nelly632]

YOU speed hammered. YOU thought RC'ing was bad. YOU made the noob mistake(if it was a mistake) and EVERYONE agrees those were both BAD moves. So who's the noob?

LOL... OK...

UNVOTE

I feel better now... SSF wants me to play then fine I will play... I will give you all a detailed list of suspects and other stuff first thing tomorrow...

[death_omen]

Unvote

Since he actually wants to defend himself properly I am preprared to listen.

[VampanezeHunter]

Yea can no-one use Caps when posting. It makes my head hurt =(

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Discussion is dropping off again, so I'm instituting a deadline.

Saturday September 1st, 9am EDT

(about 5 days from now).

When the deadline hits, 3 votes will be enough to lynch. If there's a tie, the person to hit 3 votes first is lynched.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

8th Vote Count of Day 2

Nelly632 - 3 (vampyrusddg, Muerrto, somestrangeflea)

VampaneseHunter - 1 (SeraphicMirth)

Not Voting:

- 6 (death_omen, Hjallti, Malchonn, Nelly632, Plessiez, VampaneseHunter)

6 to Lynch before deadline,

3 at deadline

[SeraphicMirth]

Is Nelly still suspect #1 for everyone? Who else do you think is suspicious? I just discovered how to look at one player's post within the thread (!!!), super excited about that lol So, I'm gonna try to go through each player individually. It just makes it easier for me to not get distracted by other players when trying to follow one inside the game. woo!
So, I'll post that soonish..there's a lot of posts to read through with that.

I feel like the majority of the people in the game were/are looking at Nelly as #1. So, if you now are more inclined to believe he's town..then who's #2?

[somestrangeflea]

I feel like the majority of the people in the game were/are looking at Nelly as #1. So, if you now are more inclined to believe he's town..then who's #2?

Nelly will be my #1, up until the point when this:

I will give you all a detailed list of suspects and other stuff first thing tomorrow...

...becomes true. Which should've been yesterday...

[SeraphicMirth]

ok so a summary of each player. If I mention any post numbers, this is by their individual post number, not the game thread post number. IT's long but there are some questions for some people..so scan at least LOL

death_omen - I'm not going to spend time analyzing his posts at this point..they're really long and I also believe he is who he says for now. If it's reasonably under question about being the cop (like tomorrow perhaps) then I'll go look through.

hjallti - FOSes a lot, but rarely votes. I'm not experienced enough to know if this is a scumtell or not. Does a lot of summaries/analyses, asks some good questions here and there, his posts just seem to come from a very town POV. So, I'm more inclined to say town. Hasn't been on in a while, he said he has limited access until the 28th - so hopefully he'll weigh in a bit more before the deadline is up.

Malchonn - doesn't post very often, but does post quite a bit of content. I think he's pretty solid and asks good questions. However, one thing did catch my eye - in his 13th post he says that he thinks Nelly is more noobish and asks everyone who is considering voting Nelly why they think he's more scummy than noob..as if he is under the opinion that Nelly is noob town. Then, just 2 posts later, Nelly is suspect #1. Question: What changed your mind? Granted, there was 10 realtime days between those two posts..but still, seems interesting.
Also, you FOSed Hijalti twice fairly close together. If he's that suspicious to you two times in a row, why not vote?


Muerrto - Also FOSes a lot, but rarely votes. The 3 people that he FOSed/was questioning more heavily/ranked as his most suspicious near the start were Khel, Omen and Sauce. Khel and Sauce turned up town, and Omen is most likely town.
Went after Nelly heavily, also someone I suspect is most likely town.

When he questions/posts/responds to these people..he likes to interject things/summarize what they say but put a little twist on it...it's slight but here's one example:

It would be dead right now if Muertto wasnt accusing people left right and center , he seems keen to pick up on every single post targeted against him with strong comebacks.

Lets see now... Vote:Muerrto

Sooo you're voting me because I'm actually posting as opposed to lurking like most of the other players? That was the worst reason yet.

That is not *quite* what death_omen said, but Muerrto repackaged it as such.

Has been fairly quiet recently.

I dunno, Muerrto confuses me. He seems town cuz he posts a lot of content and seems genuine in investigating/asking questions, but most of that content is aimed at players that I believe to be town/were killed and came up town..so it's tough to say. He could play pretty good scum, I imagine. That's the way I'm leaning on Muerrto.

Question for Muerrto: Your vote is still on Nelly. Is he the lynch for today? Do you think he's scum or do you think he's noob town?
Question 2: You were the one that brought up that today's correct lynch is important to stay out of LYLO tomorrow. How will that affect your voting before the deadline for this day?

Nelly - I am fairly convinced he's town. Throughout the day he was back and forth on D_O and Khel. His hammer of Khel falls in line with his thinking throughout the day. He was already suspicious of either Khel or DO all day long and if DO claimed, I could see him going "well that means it's Khel" and just putting the hammer down - overeager. Plus his own explanation which makes total sense for his actions.

as an aside -Nelly comments on VH's list of suspects. I just noticed on the quote that he responds to from VH, VH says he suspects Nelly because he's trying to throw suspicion around. Uh..up until that point, his only suspicions were DO and Khel. Hardly throwing them around. Anyway..that's a point on VH, not on Nelly lol


Pless- Posts intelligent posts, lots of good content and good questions. Finds reasonable things to point out..doesn't seem to stretch for arguments too much. However, IGMEOY because I'm afraid he could be really good scum. The mafia players who come off as quite intuitive and intelligent scare me..hehe
Question: Who's your top suspects at this time?


Strangeflea- I have no read on him at all. He doesn't post a ton of content but when he does post it seems townish, maybe. I don't know. One noticeable thing - Says over and over he doesn't want Nelly to be lynched, or that he should be replaced instead, yet won't move his vote?
Question: Do you think Nelly is more scum than town or more town than scum?

VH - I've already stated and analyzed him more than once. Brought up another point about him in my analysis of Nelly. My vote's on him right now. Not really gonna rehash it.

Vampy - Another one that I don't really have a read on. I'd lean more towards scum cuz he doesn't really question anyone, and his latest post..eh I don't like the reasoning "well, true, if we hang Nelly and he's town we're in LYLO, but he's disruptive so..let's hang him anyway".
The end result doesn't change ...we'd be in LYLO if he's town.
So, question: Are you fine with us possibly being in LYLO tomorrow then?

My top scum list:
Muerrto
VampanezeHunter

I'm going to keep my vote as is.

[somestrangeflea]

One noticeable thing - Says over and over he doesn't want Nelly to be lynched, or that he should be replaced instead, yet won't move his vote?

Good point. What I meant was that I would advocate his lynch, but I would prefer his replacement. However, he's promised an analysis which I want to see before I even consider moving my vote.

Question: Do you think Nelly is more scum than town or more town than scum?

At the moment, more town than scum. In my time here I have seen a few players "blow up" (for lack of a better word), and, truth be told, they regularly turn out to be town. However, the nature of Nelly's "blow up" somehow seems more anti-town than others. A summary:

Self-voting

- Not unusual to "blow ups"

Re-claiming VT

- I've never seen a VT "blow up", but then again, it could just be that this time, the "up blower" is actually a VT. However, the fact that he

re

-claimed Vanilla strikes me as fairly unusual.

Claiming Scum

- Now, I've never seen any one claim scum, even in a "blow up", so this strikes me as very unusual, since he is leaving himself open to an LaL offensive.

I'm finding him scummy, not for blowing up in and of itself (I am fairly sure those last 4 words are misplaced, but you get the drift...), but by the strange nature of it.

[Muerrto]

Muerrto - Also FOSes a lot, but rarely votes. The 3 people that he FOSed/was questioning more heavily/ranked as his most suspicious near the start were Khel, Omen and Sauce. Khel and Sauce turned up town, and Omen is most likely town.
Went after Nelly heavily, also someone I suspect is most likely town.

When he questions/posts/responds to these people..he likes to interject things/summarize what they say but put a little twist on it...it's slight but here's one example:

It would be dead right now if Muertto wasnt accusing people left right and center , he seems keen to pick up on every single post targeted against him with strong comebacks.

Lets see now... Vote:Muerrto

Sooo you're voting me because I'm actually posting as opposed to lurking like most of the other players? That was the worst reason yet.

That is not *quite* what death_omen said, but Muerrto repackaged it as such.

Has been fairly quiet recently.

I dunno, Muerrto confuses me. He seems town cuz he posts a lot of content and seems genuine in investigating/asking questions, but most of that content is aimed at players that I believe to be town/were killed and came up town..so it's tough to say. He could play pretty good scum, I imagine. That's the way I'm leaning on Muerrto.

Question for Muerrto: Your vote is still on Nelly. Is he the lynch for today? Do you think he's scum or do you think he's noob town?
Question 2: You were the one that brought up that today's correct lynch is important to stay out of LYLO tomorrow. How will that affect your voting before the deadline for this day?

Twist? Interesting. Hindsight is 20/20 but you can't use it to justify your actions. Everyone suspected DO and Khel before DO's claim. So now because I also suspected them and I currently suspect the one who actually hammered one of them I'm suspect? Yet Nelly suspected both of them(as did pretty much everyone) and even lynched one before he could RC and you think he's town? Your whole argument against me is WIFOM. No one knew they were town and unless you're scum(not an accusation, I still think you and Pless are the most pro-town atm) you don't know that Nelly's town either.

My suspiscions are different from yours, and on day 1 my suspiscions were dead on with everyone else's, and sadly wrong. But saying because I suspect townies I'm scum is definite WIFOM. Just about everyone suspected both DO and Khel. Some people still do suspect DO. Some people currently suspect Nelly.

As for the lynch for today? If he shapes up and defends himself properly, possibly not if something better comes along. If he continues how he's been? Screw him. I mean DO even simply asked him not to use ................ So what's he do? Says hell no, holds his breath till he turns blue, then uses them more. What is that?

I still think he's scum, not noob town. The blow up is over the top, the explanation for the hammer is bad, and his lack of defense is bad as well. Now if I'm wrong I'm sure you'll bring fire on me for it but at my last count a few other people are voting for him other than me right now. Same for DO, same for Khel.

[SeraphicMirth]

Yeah, but you have to see what I'm saying. your ONLY suspects have been 2 people who turned out town, one who is most likely town (omen) and maybe Nelly is town (I believe so, others don't..that's fine).

So..you were wrong on 2 counts and probably on 2 others. I dunno. I respect where you're coming from...it makes sense..which is why you confuse me, as I said

[VampanezeHunter]

Um...(sorry D_O) The answer to a question by someone(can't remember who!) is that Nelly still is my top suspect. Because he started of RCing VT. Then he gets angry RCing Scum. Then when people give him a chance he RCing VT. That strikes me as, he was scum RCed VT, got angry and properly RCed and finally foes back to lying(possibly). Just a thought . And my number 2 is Pless because he hasn't posted for a while now!

[Muerrto]

Yeah, but you have to see what I'm saying. your ONLY suspects have been 2 people who turned out town, one who is most likely town (omen) and maybe Nelly is town (I believe so, others don't..that's fine).

So..you were wrong on 2 counts and probably on 2 others. I dunno. I respect where you're coming from...it makes sense..which is why you confuse me, as I said

Well if you scan back it was Sauce that had suspiscion of me, not the other way around. I said I was watching him because he seemed crafty and he said the same of me.

As for being possibly wrong on 2 others, you're projecting your view of Nelly as town and my view of Nelly as scum and saying mine is wrong. Yet if you're town you don't know that so saying yours is simply more right is wrong. That might've sounded confusing but you get the idea.

So I was for sure wrong once on Khel, and so was everyone else. I could possibly be wrong on Nelly and DO but that's not confirmed, I'm not convinced, and we'll never know till they're lynched, night killed, or end game.

[death_omen]

Nelly for the moment MAY be town, my suspicion falls back on Hijati and Malchonn for just sitting back and letting everything happen, I say we force something out of them, they are just lurking and waiting for the deadline to pass or for the town to strongly oppose someone which they can hammer.

SO now:

Vote:Malchonn

[Nelly632]

I don't know what to tell everyone but the truth is that even with a reread of the thread I have gut feelings but nothing really solid on concrete to back it up.

Vampanezehunter is suspect to me simply based on some of his actions which can be interputed in numerous ways. His time away from the game on vacation can be held suspect if it was proveable that he was lying (Which I am not claiming). By claming to be on vacation a person can sit back and allow the game to take place without being help under suspicion for lurking. But what strikes me as odd is his reluctance to hammer me, I understand that he probably didnt want to hammer me then suffer my fate the next day but I think he took it to another level. He had plenty of time and just cause to do the dirty work and no one would have blamed him but his hesitation struck me as scummy. Then his last post is written like someone who is sure I am scum and if he was given the choice to lynch me he would, kind of like someone being confronted by a tough guy and being quite then when the tough guy walks away they run their mouth. Maybe that was a bag analogy a better thought is he didnt want to be the one to hammer and once he saw that I MIGHT be able to get myself out of a bind he came out and said a few things in hopes of swinging the votes my way again and getting the job done...

Once again this is loosely based and has now real evidence also I was thinking for a second that Serp might be a COP who investigated VH during the night and knows he is scum but then I saw he was unvoting VH and if a cop had a guilty read he wouldnt unvote that person. Then I thought that maybe Serp is the COP and he investigated me on Night One because I hammered and he knows I am town and that is why he wont vote for me.

I dont know this is just a few of my thoughts, if the rest of the town doesn't want to be placed in a lynch or lose situation I would recommend that you listen to my words and change your vote.

I made a mistake in everyones eyes by hammering Khelvaster before he had a chance to RC because if he would have RC VIG then we would have let him go just like we did DO.

Well I am sitting here right now telling you all that I am Roleclaiming Townie and I would hope that you all take this Roleclaim and listen to it as too prevent a Lynch Or Lose situation.

Vote: VampanezeHunter

[Muerrto]

Vampanezehunter is suspect to me simply based on some of his actions which can be interputed in numerous ways. His time away from the game on vacation can be held suspect if it was proveable that he was lying (Which I am not claiming). By claming to be on vacation a person can sit back and allow the game to take place without being help under suspicion for lurking. But what strikes me as odd is his reluctance to hammer me, I understand that he probably didnt want to hammer me then suffer my fate the next day but I think he took it to another level. He had plenty of time and just cause to do the dirty work and no one would have blamed him but his hesitation struck me as scummy. Then his last post is written like someone who is sure I am scum and if he was given the choice to lynch me he would, kind of like someone being confronted by a tough guy and being quite then when the tough guy walks away they run their mouth. Maybe that was a bag analogy a better thought is he didnt want to be the one to hammer and once he saw that I MIGHT be able to get myself out of a bind he came out and said a few things in hopes of swinging the votes my way again and getting the job done...

Well I am sitting here right now telling you all that I am Roleclaiming Townie and I would hope that you all take this Roleclaim and listen to it as too prevent a Lynch Or Lose situation.

Please don't get pissed at me again if I respond to this post first off.

A. I don't like even insinuating VH lied about vacation. That's an absolutely horrible reason to suspect someone.

B. Overly hesitating, like he did, is less of a scum tell and more of a town tell. Especially if it'll cause LYLO if we're wrong.

C. That's your third RC for vanilla. Excessive at best.

D. I thought I was your #1 suspect. But now that some attention is being brought towards someone else you shift? Do you no longer suspect me or suspect him more?


VH seems to be really new, and kind of off the wall. He also said at some point that he was only 13. These 3 things explain every 'scum tell' IMO. Some people may disagree and like I said I have a history of ignoring scum tells as newbie tells. But I'm definitely not ready to switch off Nelly especially after his quick shift to VH.

[Nelly632]

Please don't get pissed at me again if I respond to this post first off.

I am not pissed I understand that you have to say something.

A. I don't like even insinuating VH lied about vacation. That's an absolutely horrible reason to suspect someone.

If I insinuated that he was on vacation I apoligize and retract it, I was saying that when a person comes out and says it twice I start to think something is wrong.

B. Overly hesitating, like he did, is less of a scum tell and more of a town tell. Especially if it'll cause LYLO if we're wrong.

Like I said it was my feelings and I couldnt prove anything besides what I had in my gut.

C. That's your third RC for vanilla. Excessive at best.

Yes very excessive but I was hoping that by saying it one more time I could convince you. If you are pro-town like you claim then I would hope that you would take my claim a little bit more seriously.

D. I thought I was your #1 suspect. But now that some attention is being brought towards someone else you shift? Do you no longer suspect me or suspect him more?

I still suspect you as a matter of fact you were on that post right above VH with a long list of stuff I thought about you. Before I posted it I erased it all because I hoped that by not mentioning you in my post you would not feel the need to try to disect everything I say. But that was my mistake.

VH seems to be really new, and kind of off the wall. He also said at some point that he was only 13. These 3 things explain every 'scum tell' IMO. Some people may disagree and like I said I have a history of ignoring scum tells as newbie tells. But I'm definitely not ready to switch off Nelly especially after his quick shift to VH.

I think personally it looks like you are trying to defend VH by claming that he is simply a young person and that is why he appears to be scummy. The problem I see with you is that you refuse to have a open mind in this game like you have admited, you get your heart set on voting someone off and no matter what they say you will not see anything else besides what you want to see. Either that is a problem or it is your scummy side coming out. You have refused to examine the list of people that voted for Khelvaster and continued to hold your vote on me with standing the numerous roleclaims I have stated in my post. Also before you copy and paste my post where I RC scum please be aware that I am well aware what I have wrote in the past and unless you feel the need to show the entire thread once again please refrain.

[VampanezeHunter]

Ok. Everyone is allowed their own opinion. But your reasons for voting me are really bad. A) Faking a Vacation!?! Why would I do that? I have people you could ask and they would say I was on Holiday! Bad reason.
B) Hesistating. I'm not a very deciscive person. I saw what happened to you at the beginning of this day and how you were attacked constantly.
Also I gave you a chance and you throw it back in my face! I'm sorry but you haven't even said thanks! Oh well.

Major FoS: Nelly

[somestrangeflea]

Once again this is loosely based and has now real evidence also I was thinking for a second that Serp might be a COP who investigated VH during the night and knows he is scum but then I saw he was unvoting VH and if a cop had a guilty read he wouldnt unvote that person. Then I thought that maybe Serp is the COP and he investigated me on Night One because I hammered and he knows I am town and that is why he wont vote for me.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not generally considered anti-town to draw attention to people you think might be Cop? Or is that Doc? Or both?

[Nelly632]

Ok. Everyone is allowed their own opinion. But your reasons for voting me are really bad. A) Faking a Vacation!?! Why would I do that? I have people you could ask and they would say I was on Holiday! Bad reason.
B) Hesistating. I'm not a very deciscive person. I saw what happened to you at the beginning of this day and how you were attacked constantly.
Also I gave you a chance and you throw it back in my face! I'm sorry but you haven't even said thanks! Oh well. Major FoS: Nelly

My reasons for voting you are based on my feelings and no proof like I have said several times already, I have already apolgized about making it seem like I was saying you were faking a vacation I thought I already clarfied that it was a thought that crossed my mind. I am sorry.

I was saying that with all the Suspicion you have toward me now that it would appear that you didnt want to hammer me and now you want to draw more attention to me as if you are regretful that you didnt hammer. Once again my opinion and I am sorry you do not feel the same way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but is it not generally considered anti-town to draw attention to people you think might be Cop? Or is that Doc? Or both?

By making my thoughts known to people I thought I was giving everyone what they wanted from me in this game. I couldnt very well mention my thought process toward VH without mentioning that I believed Serp to be a cop. But once again it is simply a SMALL belief that has no real backing what so ever.

[Muerrto]

I still suspect you as a matter of fact you were on that post right above VH with a long list of stuff I thought about you. Before I posted it I erased it all because I hoped that by not mentioning you in my post you would not feel the need to try to disect everything I say. But that was my mistake.

I think personally it looks like you are trying to defend VH by claming that he is simply a young person and that is why he appears to be scummy. The problem I see with you is that you refuse to have a open mind in this game like you have admited, you get your heart set on voting someone off and no matter what they say you will not see anything else besides what you want to see. Either that is a problem or it is your scummy side coming out. You have refused to examine the list of people that voted for Khelvaster and continued to hold your vote on me with standing the numerous roleclaims I have stated in my post.

First off, welcome to mafia. I know I've said that a few times but I apparently have to say it again. That's why there are so many quotes in people's posts. This is mafia. Everyone goes through every post with a fine tooth comb and picks out the inconsistencies. If you don't want me to dissect what you say, you may not be in the right place.

Second, I already claimed to be defending VH in a way by placing him under a protective 'newbie' sign. I also already stated that sometimes that bites me in the butt. But sadly, that's not something I can simply

choose

to change. All his tells can be seen as either one(newbie or scum) and I still see them as newbie, whether that's right or not. I defended VH on day 1 with the same argument. Now whether other people see it that way or not is their business, but this is nothing new. I didn't just all of a sudden jump in front of VH to protect him from the mob. Pless asked me on day 1 if I assume everyone's town till I have reason to believe otherwise and I said yes.

As for examining the list of people who voted Khel? I'm on that list and I know my role so how does looking at the other votes help? I have no doubt there's both town and scum on that list as almost everyone suspected Khel. But you're the hammer, the speed hammer, and the reason we never found out he was a vig. That's what I'm examining. How is looking at the other votes more important than that?

Step back, pretend it WASN'T you that hammered but it was someone else, at the same speed, for the same reason. You're telling me you wouldn't be a bit suspiscious? You're not suspiscious only because it's you. To the rest of us it was a very big tell. If you can look at it from a 3rd person view I think you'll understand a bit better.