Mini 495 - Mafia on a Plane! GAME OVER! =)

[Lucienne]

Sorry, just got online. I tried logging on on Sunday, but it failed to recognise my username or something. Anyhoo here I am.

[Lucienne]

Firstlt, carrotcake called me a boy.

How man boys called Lucienne do you know?

On more pressing matters, I`m not liking originiality for his lurker voting, and opinions that there are no strong reasons for voting. His opinions are entirely flawed here - voting on Day 1 can be strong and for good reasons, and similarly voting for lurkers is not a good strategy in this scenario. I disagree that not posting on confirming for around 2 days is inherent lurking.

That said, I`m not liking Oman`s vote here, as he basically adds nothing yet puts him to -2. Seems like some early scum bandwagoning to me.

[Lucienne]

EBWOP:
If you look at my post originality is a claculated vote, with actual reasons.

Uh, he was quite clearly referring to his vote.

[Lucienne]

Whoopie, i cannot get my quotes to work.

First off, Oman is my top suspect because of his highly opportunistic vote, and his OMGUS attack on Shaf.ted.

vote: Oman

Also am pretty suspicious of Dr. Blackstrike, since the only things I have seen him do so far are vote or finger suspicion at originality and Oman, the two people who have been the biggest "suspicion getters" at this point.

FOS: Dr Blackstrike

[Lucienne]

Gah! spurgistan, shaf.ted. oops.

Nonetheless, I still think you are the scumiest. THe way you put originality at minus 2 on page 2 was suspect, and your recent claims that I am in cahoots with Dr B are fairly ludicrous and without any real evidence is suspect.

You're reaching here, I suggest that vote was just to get on the latest bandwagon.

Uh, no. Nice try.

You can quite clearly see my post 33, where I am the first person to notice and call suspicion on your vote. So no, joining the bandwagon is quite a fruitless accusation against me.

[Lucienne]

You and Blackstrike look like a pair, especially after you voted me and FoSed him, even though your reasons for me were rediculous.

Um, no scum here. Just a plain old townie.

Though I wouldn't be surprised if Lucienne was scum trying to frame me that way.

Please explain how this scenario has any merit.

Also, Oman didn`t put originality at -2? Oops. Nonetheless, at the time, I never saw why he voted for originality, since he wasn`t giving any of his own reasoning, just bandwagoning, it seemed.

If Oman could give a more thorough explanation of his originality vote now, I would be greateful.

[Lucienne]

Apologies for using this thread as English practice, but can someone tell me the correct spelling of "greateful"? It is one word I continually cannot spell in english.

[Lucienne]

Well, Im feeling rather pressured into voting for someone.

As I explained, VH is seeming the most suspicious here, so im going to tip the balance by

vote VampanezeHunter

.

Why are you so pressured into voting? There is no need.

[Lucienne]

Dr. Blackstrike, why are posts of yours edited?

[Lucienne]

Wow.

FoS:originality

I find it quite convenient that he felt "pressured" into voting for someone and, oh gosh, just happened to pick the person who had the most votes at the time.

He really was adding to the bandwagon, without actually explaining anything.

Die scum

[Lucienne]

originality, I was mainly against your vote because you seemed "pressured" etc.

Now you have given an explanation, I'm not suspicious (although I don't always agree with lynching lurkers.)

Hrm.

Interesting post from carrotcake. AlyG seems to really be changing his story a lot.

[Lucienne]

Meanwhile

vote: Dr. Blackstrike

Seriously, what has he actually done through the game, except coast and say basically nothing?

[Lucienne]

Meanwhile

vote: Dr. Blackstrike

Seriously, what has he actually done through the game, except coast and say basically nothing?

I again invoke the pot and the kettle. "Hey Mr. Kettle, you're black" said the pot. Seriously you don't have a post over two lines long in this whole thread.

Wrong.

Here's some examples of posts, not only more than 2 lines long, but where I am scum-hunting. My Post 1, 3, 4 and 9 are all examples.

Conversely, Dr. B has done no scum-hunting. That is scummy.

Dr. B has not been scum-hunting for the entire game. That is scummy.

[Lucienne]

To all those saying Dr. B is perhaps a power-role:

And finally: I understand I look suspious. Heck, I'd probably vote me at this point.

But you guys shouldn't, because if I'm a powerrole, I'd have to claim, and if I'm a townie, I'd have to lie.

And that just ain't cool.

He's admitting that if he's a townie, he's claiming power-role.

...

[Lucienne]

First of all:

unvote

Since Dr. B is actually perhaps claiming a power-role, I don't think we should lynch him (although I'm a bit anxious that he says he would claim a power-role anyway, even as a townie). I think those still voting for Dr. B aren't really seeing the potential

loss

of ousting him, if he is a power-role.

At this point anyone who says I don't look scummy looks scummy.

Care to actually comment on the game while you're here?

I mean honestly look at it this way, the mafia is going to nightkill him now anyway (if he's being honest) and if he's lying and lives we'll take care of him Day 2.

Whilst I agree with the other things you had to say, I don't think this is right. What if the scum decide not to kill him, and thus frame him? What if he is blocked by a town or scum roleblocker? Too many variables are involved to make this plan work properly.

I really think he should be the one we lynch today and Blackstrike can be our target tomorrow, as many people have already said.

Planning things in the future like this is scummy. Scum are most interested in this, because they can set people up so in the future can say "oh yes, we agreed to go for X today, let's do it!"

Or in another vein, SOMEONE had to do it, right? So I picked the one I had reasons against.

But why were you

pressured

into voting. This still makes no sense to me.

[Lucienne]

Why would the scum allow the doc to protect a possible townie? You can look at other games and where doc's claim they are usually taken care of that night by either scum or a SK.

Why are you assuming he's a doc?

I'm not sure where you got a possible roleblock but since that is the first it's been brought up I find it interesting.

I don't know why you are discounting the idea of a possible town/scum roleblocker? Do you have some sort of evidence about this?

Also, why are you planning for the future?

However, you said "if he survives the night, let's kill him." This is flawed, since as I said, there are several things that could happen that could make him survive the night (for example, scum framing him). To say therefore that he should be lynched if he survives the night is positively ludicrous.

Well Carrotcake said the exact same thing a page ago! Yet you don't seem to be attacking her. Either you overlooked it or you two could be a possible scum partnership.

Yes, I completely overlooked that. Nonetheless, you still did it. Your obvious evasion is noted.

AlyG and Carrotcake, you shouldn't try and play so far ahead. I've already explained how that is scummy.

Why do i have to say why i did it? It's obvious i just believe that we should hang Blackstrike tomorrow and leave him to see if he really is the doctor and hope he can give us some benefit during night.

Obviously you didn't read one of my earlier posts.

What if the scum decide not to kill him, and thus frame him? What if he is blocked by a town or scum roleblocker? Too many variables are involved to make this plan work properly.

This quite clearly shows the flaws of this plan.

I'm currantly lurking because I don't have anything to contribute. If I think of something, I'll be sure to post it.

Pretty obvious who would win the "Awrd for Not-Scum Hunting."

Also, Oman's looking town now. I agree with lots of Oman's points - I'm getting quite nervous about some of ryan's tactics.

[Lucienne]

Wow this is great, first we get a shortened D1, now it looks like there's probably a SK in the game.

I'm puzzled that this was your first reaction.

So you FOS'd me because you think that the person most likely to kill Carrot Cake was me because she had suspicion of me? If i was mafia which i'm not, why of all people to kill would i pick CarrotCake? the only person who had suspicions of me, wouldn't that look to obvious?

This is also WIFOM. Bad defence on that, guy.

On the cons, I guess someone could be setting him up. The more I think about it the more it seems that it would be a pretty good set up. (not kill the possible powerrole on night 1, making him suspicious, but instead killing the one persuing him.) Still, I think Dr. B is one of the best suspects now.

Translated: "This seems like it's setup. Might as well just go with it, though, anyway."

Un FOS: Dr. Blackstrike

He never claimed Doctor...I was thinking like Ryan for a second there, That was an honest mistake guys...

I'm lost. Even if he isn't a doc, there's a possibility that he is another power-role...

Actually, there could be another candidate. Let me have a think.

unvote

Clarify, please.

[Lucienne]

It's my first reaction because I was already upset that Retarded Ryan basically pissed away D1 for us. Then the new day begins with the added bonus of having two killing roles, which makes the game much more difficult for the town.

Yes. And I'm having trouble working out how "we have two killing roles" constitutes the same as "there is an SK."

I'm not going to hold suspicion against BS until he does something I recognise as being anti-town.

Right.

Can you explain how this:

I'm currantly lurking because I don't have anything to contribute.

is at all pro-town?

I'm pretty sure that you're a serial killer playing innocent.

I'd maybe not go that far.

But the whole point is: if you are pro-town, it isn't really pro-town to wildly declare "it looks as though we have an SK." A

pro-town

reaction to this would be "we have had two deaths."

Dybeck for that SK comment, which his reasoning is severly flawed (in fact I can think of about 3-4 other scenarios which make more sense).

Good, let's hear them.

One thing I'd point out is that an SK would usually open with "Hmm.. a protown vig" to leave the claim open later.

Pure WIFOM speculation.

Try again?

1. Protown Vig
1.5 1-shot vig.
2. Jack of All Trades
3. CPR doc
4. 2nd scumgroup.

1. Possible.
1.5. Unlikely.
2. Highly unlikely.
3. Not gonna happen.
4. Ultimate fail.

So overall, only one of your other scenarios has any possible merit.

More importantly, are you trying to suggest it's more likely we have

2 scumgroups

than an SK? If so, I'd revise Mini Normal balance. 'Cause that sure is flawed.

I admit that these are not as likely as an SK (except maybe protown vig) you didn't even think to consider them. You were definate that there was an SK.

You've lost me here. Why is this a criticism of dybeck, since as I recall, shaf.ted said this. Furthermore, if this is so scummy, why didn't you proclaim this when shaf.ted said it?

A KILLING ROLE was revealed, which means it could be (looking at the likely ones) a protown vig or an SK. Now, my comment was if he was involved in any way 10 to 1 he's say it was a protown vig. Also, by your logic. Congradulations all pro-town memebers for not being NKed. I am now a confirmed Pro-town character due to my congradulating that role.

I didn't understand a word of this.

That said, dybeck, I have no idea why we should leave the SK alive. If we catch someone as anti-town, why leave them alive?

Not sure about my vote at this point.

[Lucienne]

Well I don't feel like my case on dybeck or AlyG has a whole lot of power behind it, perhaps a little.

And so

Vote AlyG

IGMEOY: dybeck

I feel AlyG could be either scum or SK, whereas dybeck could be scum/SK/or townie relying on a bad tell.

Erm...

Didn't you say you don't like the case against AlyG? If so, why are you voting for him?

Later, you do say you simulposted... what was your initial post here referring to?

Furthermore, you opened this day with an FoS on Blackstrike when, if your story is true, the logical thing would have been to find something on Orig.

QFT.

It's like a cop with a guilty yet voting somewhere else. If you truly thought he was scum why did you vote for him?

Although in this situation there are lots of alternatives. I'm not sure why this points to orig scum too heavily (although it is evidence nonetheless).

Originality visited somebody. Now they're dead.

vote: originality

It's not like we didn't think he was scum yesterday.

Jumping to conclusions, here, are we?

I don't like this from dybeck. I don't trust AlyG at all. I'd be prepared to vote for him, since I think there are some holes in his claim that have already been discussed.

I'm actually more suspicious of the

timing

he claimed - claiming on two votes seems defensive to the extreme, and definitely like he wants his butt to be saved before he gets near a lynch.

You're right I should have said, that we either have an SK or an incredibly reckless/moronic vigilante that decided to gamble on a NK after a shortened D1 on which we have obsolutely zero evidence as to who may be mafia since no bandwagon got passed L-3. Seriously a vigilante kill on N1 is rare enough, only a complete and utter idiot would have attempted a NK after the amount of information that ryan allowed us to produce on D1.

I think it's silly to suggest that everyone plays perfectly. I've seen vigs shoot on night one - which is therefore why I'm confused at why you

automatically

said "oooh, SK here, everyone!"

As I said, the

logical

and pro-town reaction is to think "two deaths". Speculating like that is scummy.

Mod Note:

Quote tag fixed

[Lucienne]

Erm... just to clarify since my quote tags didn't work, it was Oman voting for AlyG, and me failing at quote tags.

I didn't vote for AlyG in the above post.

MOD:

Could you sort that quote tag? It's a bit misleading and looks as though I'm voting AlyG, when I'm not.

[Lucienne]

unvote

, in case the mod thinks I was voting AlyG (although I wasn't actually voting AlyG, but whatever).

[Lucienne]

To all:

I'm afraid there is a family emergency that has arisen, and I'll need to fly off tomorrow. I'll try and get access during the following week, but if not it could be Monday October 1 before I can post anything.

Hope this isn't going to be too big a problem. I'd rather not be replaced if that is okay.

[Lucienne]

Thanks for not replcing me. I'm back.

I don't think AlyG is scum, really. I believe his claim.

Orig is a bit different. I'm relatively okay with his claim, I'm also seeing the possibility of him being an SK. However, if he is a vig this would be a terrible loss - he obviousy shouldn't be targetted. In short - I find it more likely that he would be a vig than an SK, but I'll be watching him.

Interesting in 541 how Dybeck asks Elias for help - possible scum partnership?

I HATE Oman's vote for Elias. It is sheer bandwagoning for no real reason.

Also, can someone explain all the Maths? I'm getting confused.

Most likely to vote for Oman at this point. I didn't like the way he responded badly to lotsof Vollkan's points, and some of his answers match those that benefit the Mafia.

[Lucienne]

Wow. Six pages in a few days. I'm on it.

[Lucienne]

shaf.ted is right. Vig killing, especially if town is lynched today, could be fatal.

I considered them all, and eliminated them one by one. I've stated the reasons for eliminating most of them. There simply is no other role that originality can have to my mind. If you lynch me today and leave him alive, I'd urge you to at least PLEASE get him to agree to have his kill directed.

I'm thoroughly puzzled that you so blatantly attacked orig here, and trusted AlyG,

and

didn't consider other power-roles. Why are they so unlikely? I'm not seeing it. I see this actions from dybeck as scummy.

I find myself agreeing with his conclusions more often than not. Currently focused on originality and shaft.ed as suspects. My odds on him: 60% town, 40% scum.

Interesting defense of dybeck, in a subtle way. Are you saying you agree with his attacks on originality?

I find it interesting Gemelli finds almost half the group more suspicious of dybeck, including Elias amongst others. I find Elias more lurkish than scummy (I realise I'm not one to talk).

And Gemelli, wow, it looks like I'm on your top list for scum. And probably mafia, nonetheless. Well, here's what I've been saying about how I can't be mafia: I'd not claim vig. I'd claim something safer for me instead, and if someone counterclaimed me It would be OK, because if I got lynched I'd have partners who would now know one more powerrole to kill that night.

WIFOM (therefore completely invalid.)

I dare anyone to name one "townie" thing she did. All she's done is FoS everyone that others already talked about. Very passive playing. I am very surprised no one has noticed this before. Its no little thing either, she has posted the bare minimum, containing the bare minimum information for her not to be prodded. It has become even laughable at times, when everyone is jumping on a serious bandwaggon for concrete reasons, shes just all "Oh, yes, I do find him sort of suspicious, but I dunno. I'll FoS someone else who everybody also thinks is suspicious, though I'm not too sure." Absolutely perfect example of someone trying not to invoke attention. Even the FoSes have been sparce. And following my logic, three of those are scum: Elias, Lucienne, dybeck, Gemelli, and maybe Vollkan or Oman. I think Lucienne is likely. I want to hear everyone's thoughts.

I would highly disagree that I am posting the "bare minimum" of content. Can you show me some examples of where my suspicious have not been clear in any sense? Good luck.

To clarify - my main suspicion is Oman. Reasons - major flip-flopping and bandwagonning.

[quote="Gemelli"I am still having a hard time reconciling that N1 CarrotCake kill choice with a pro-town alignment.[/quote]

Exactly. The fact of the matter is that it makes far more sense as an anti-town kill - a lurker unlikely to be protected.

I like how shaf.ted says Oman has been "all over the place." Definitely spot on.

I have to go now, but I will be back to finish this after dinner.

[Lucienne]

I'll do the rest tomorrow.

[Lucienne]

The Life and Times of Carrotcake the Most Pro-Town Players Ever

Erm, I'd say more lurker than "Most Pro-Town Player Ever!" Exaggeration?

What I've been trying to suggest is that to me, CC makes NO sense as a kill target for a pro-town player.

QFT. Correct.

I'm confused as to how the discussion about orig's potential scum role being focused on him being an SK.

Why?

Oman -- 60%
dybeck --65%

Why dybeck 65% and Oman 60%?

Page 27 and more a bit later (hopefully today).

[Lucienne]

If it's 3 mafia 1 SK and 8 town the town is LyLo with one mislynch.

I don't want to bury our heads in theory, but how does this work?

I don't like Oman's posts when pressured by Vollkan on Page 27. It sounds really like he is trying to save his butt from a nightkill.

Only if it was on a scummy target, or else one chosen by a secondary vote (I understand an SK would be fine with it, but it at least gives the town majority some control).

What do you mean by "secondary vote", and who do you classify as scummy targets?

If I was scum (and I know how WIFOM this would get) I probably wouldn't worry so much about orig because his track record isn't great, and he could almost be a lynch target tomorrow conditional on a bad NK.

You're right, it is complete WIFOM here.

It makes sense that you would say this, since it's the absolute opposite of what you were doing. You quite clearly were/are panicking about being nightkilled.

Gemelli, why in post 664 did you class Elias as more suspicious than others (e.g. dybeck)?

I'm lost since after that you went back and said you were doubtful of originality's vig claim and he was more suspicious than Elias.

As Vollkan later pointed out, the position of dybeck right in the centre is very telling.

I'm completely lost dybeck - in one post you say the only things that should happen are that orig gets lynched, or no one gets lynched. I can see no feasible reason for either alternative at this stage, and welcome a big long reason for both.

What I propose is that each of us makes a list of their top four candidates for NK in order including No Kill if that is what you prefer. Limit orig to picking from the three most popular options.

I like this plan. Here is mine:

1. No Kill
2. Oman (blatant flip-flopping and bandwagonning)
3. Dybeck (exaggerated attacks of originality)
4. Elias (lurking too much - although I wouldn't want him to be killed at all.)

Interesting to note that after being pressured about his neutral dybeck position, Gemelli moves him up by 5%. Although marginal, it is significant - it now puts him head on with originality. So this change is substantial after pressure.

1. No kill
2. Shaft.ed
3. Vollkan
4. Oman

I hate this list. What have shaft.ed and Vollkan done to put themselves anywhere near higher than Oman?

Oman's list is almost as bad. Why is AlyG, who claimed tracker, even on your list?

Listing a confirmed tracker for NK is just ludicrous.

QFT.

Its not back pedalling its simple fact.

Wrong.

Updated player thoughts: (I shall be doing this in more detail at the end).

Oman (far too much flip-flopping and bandwagonning which has accentuated his early scummy Day 1 behaviour).

Dybeck (his stance regarding originality was far too exaggerated and advocating to lynch him is scummy.)

Gemelli (solid enough, only notable thing is connections with dybeck. If dybeck turned up scum, I would be looking at Gemelli.)

Elias (really, really needs to post.)

Vollkan (I don't see much to fault at this point, although I find that his use of maths is off-putting for me at least. Sometimes scum hide from discussion by talking theory, but I'm happy to see that Vollkan is doing both.)

Originality (Although less sure than about his claim than AlyG's, I am still completely against lynching him.)

AlyG (I believe his claim.)

Shaft.ed (similarly, I don't have any major doubts about him at this point.)

Also: I do still have limited access - my family emergency hasn't really died down and could all blow up again at any point. I will warn if I am having no access, but I am at this point on limited access.

[Lucienne]

You're estimating my motives, and you're....WRONG!

I'm not seeing any real argument here except "Vollkan is bad!" Maybe you could try again?

Also, I think this is to shaf.ted, but this could be wrong: whoever decided to do the "Top 4" list to kill, why did you choose four, and not, for example, three or five? This wasn't ever really addressed.

I'd further emphasise this because some people (myself included) have put Elias on their list at #4, but I have no real want for him to be killed at all.

originality, I'm lost about post #738. You say the choice between Elias and Gemelli for third place is a "process of elimination". Why then is Oman fourth and not Gemelli, therefore?

Problem with the four point scale - after/if we lynch someone, the effect of their alignment is paramount. A good example of this is Gemelli - if dybeck came up scum if lynched I would suspect him a lot more. Obviously, however, this cannot be placed into the top four just yet though.

My weighing scale isn't secret, its pretty much dybeck=not worth anything and shaft.ed=worth double. (I exaggerate of course, but its something like that. I wouldn't count someone who is scum, would I? And I don't think dybeck is missing from the top 3 of anyone's lists. ) Also whoever we happen to lynch, if the person is scum he gets nothing counted for him, and there's that.

I am curious to note this. Who else's opinions do you consider more worthy than others?

I think giving orig too much freedom actually plays into scum hands. Given his presumably poor decision in killing Carrotcake, the scum may run a "leave him alive" gambit in which they can bet on originality screwing it up for himself and using poor discretion possibly killing a townie. If orig is in fact pro-town, which I am leaning towards, and he gets us into such a situation it's undoubtedly a town loss. Therefore, if orig kills anyone not in the top 3 and they come up town, I'm autovoting. I obviously can't control the rest of the towns votes, but this is my position on the matter.

This is, of course, an excellent point, and definitely what we want to be thinking. It is completely clear that dybeck's idea of "giving originality free reign" is completely flawed.

However, if we let him live, we should tell him EXACTLY what to do.

I hope you realise how misleading and scummy this is. Completely controlling originality is really bad - not least because there is still a chance he could be another killing role (SK), for example. Limiting him so severely loses us the chance to catch him using crap logic to kill a townie, or other things like that.

At the same time, some limits are quite obviously essential, especially after last night's Carrotcake debacle.

If anything, I would consider him ignoring your posts a scum-buddy tell.

I heartedly agree.

Interesting that everybody with the exception of originality put no kill as their top choice. orig, is this going to largely affect your choice, or not?

Finished PBPA.

Tomorrow: full suspicions.

[Lucienne]

Yeah I know it bugs you. And I should probably be buttering you up. It seems that when I respect you, you go off the idea of lynching me, and when I shine you on, you tirelessly campaign for my lynch.

Or, you know, you aren't actually doing anything.

Also, why not say anything else? Advocating we should lynch orig for pages, and now not really advocating much about anything or anyone else just seems like scum trying to avoid making a commitment.

Originality, give me your word that you'll no-kill tonight, as almost everyone has said that they believe is the best idea, and I'll not mention your lynch again.

What if he is an SK or mafia and you are making deals with him?

How is this in the town's interests?

Dybeck: I haven't seen you answer this question directly, so I'll ask it. In post 743, what you said was "Which means that tonight we're likely to lose originality to the other scum group and me to originality. Is there anyone unhappy with this?" What exactly did you mean by "the other scum group?" Do you believe that we have two mafia factions?

I definitely want to hear the answer to this.

FoS: Dybeck, Oman

I would most like to see one of them hang today. (dybeck for his orig push, Oman for his bandwagonning, opportunism and complete "all over the place" attitude.)

[Lucienne]

I agree with those who are saying that dybeck is trying to save his butt with the nightkill. Panicking much, dybeck? I don't see any reason for town to panic about it. Scum, however, yes.

1. No kill
2. Oman
3. Vollkan
4. Lucienne

Why these positions?

I agree with vollkan that orig's 898 is WIFOMy in nature.

AlyG, you want an explaination of my bandwagoning? I'm a bandwagoner, its what I do. My playstyle: BANDWAGON! My scumhunting method: BANDWAGON! My favourite colour: BANDWAGON!

I've been lynched for it before, but its like....like....well its like Albert B Rampage's playstyle being absolute insanity, he gets lynched for it, but he won't change it.

I simply feel that pressure from votes is the most effective tool in outing scum. Voting paterns, etc.

Metagame time.

Oman, can you give me the link of a recent game you have finished as town, and one as scum? (Although since this seems to be your defence, I'm surprised you haven't done already).

Also, I'm in the emphatic no kill camp as well. It could be fatal to kill anyone tonight, and from a town perspective there are no advantages of doing so.

[Lucienne]

I swear I was voting Dybeck... oh wait I took it off when we got into the whole numbers thing didn't I?

Vote Dybeck

It's just so convenient. I never buy any of your wagonning attempts really - and your attempts to bring them down to playstyle make think more that you are scum than not.

Quite good for you that your vote brings you up to a tie here isn't it?

I'll be re-reading probably, but at this point I am most likely to be voting for Oman.

[Lucienne]

I notice that after some checks, Oman tends to follow people, especially with his votes. This mainly includes vollkan (whom Oman followed several times voting between dybeck and AlyG), and shaft.ed once, I think (although it could be more).

My suspicions that they could be together are only emphasised by the fact they are both voting for dybeck at this point, although I do admit this is very weak - dybeck is my second choice, and it would be pretty hard to argue that dybeck

wasn't

scummy. Nonetheless, it's something I'd consider if Oman came up as scum.

Still most likely to be voting for Oman. I really, really don't like his bandwagonning in this game. Even though it could be playstyle, I really see it as forced, and coupled with other factors (including him putting AlyG on his suggested orig kill list, which is obviously scummy), lead me to believe he is the most likely candidate to be scum at this stage.

[Lucienne]

/self-prod.

I'll post hopefully soon.

[Lucienne]

Sorry guys!

I'm still here, and I'll try and get a post out today!

[Lucienne]

Definitely wil post tomorrow.

[Lucienne]

From what I have read/understand theres some big Orig discussion. The way I see it is, if he is mafia, then the actual Vig will kill him tonight. if he is a vig, then he has a chance to kill a mafia tonight. So either way it looks to me a good idea to keep him alive... But I may change my mind come another... 400 posts under my belt... ^^'

I'm puzzled that you don't even consider a no kill.

I don't see the advantages of claiming either.

Really not liking the vollkan hate from Korlash either. It seems a bit OMGUS. Nor shaft.ed. Seriously, what HAVE they done that is remotely anti-town (in a large way)?

That being said I think he is either the Vig or mafia and I won't say which i think is more likely.

Why not an SK? I don't see at all why that's discluded.

Dybeck has pinged my scumdar more and more. I'm not happy with his "Yay, people aren't thinking about lynching me!" attitude. Surely, such a desire to survive would be more evident from scum than from town.

Sorry for the short reply, should have more stuff up later.

[Lucienne]

I think originality is the best lynch for today. Although Korlash is inherently scummier, a guilty investigation result is far more incriminating.

I want to vote for orig, but would prefer to see a votecount (and Elias' views)

[Lucienne]

Oh no.

I have an even more major family emergency than before. I am literally about to head to an airport to fly off now.

I won't be back until Monday, definitely.

I'll try and post when I get back, but things will remain hectic, likely. I understand if I get replaced, and I'm really sorry for being such a burden.

[Lucienne]

I think I

may

be back. (at least for a while)

I really don't have time to re-read, though, at least for now. If anyone has any questions or comments they'd like to hear from me please ask (if that made sense.)

[Lucienne]

I am thinking of the town here. If I am lynched, then that is one more town down. This gives Orig a greater incentive to NK.

Why does it give orig a greater incentive to NK?

No, the last time I made a scum list based solely on my person feelings Vollkan rammed it down my throat. Sure, I agree that is a great form of scum hunting and what not. But because of that I refuse to post any scumdar that implies vote/lynch candidates until I actually have reasons for it.

You mean you have

no

suspicions? (I'm not sure what you mean here - you seem to say you have no reasons here, yet later you say you need to hear from me - which is it?)

Korlash was really saving his butt with the Elias vote. Also - process of elimination - useful or a failure?

[Lucienne]

Don't know why that happened... (my post)

Anyway, my scumlist:

List:

1.Korlash (Mainly through what I remember of Oman; but his behaviour is odd too - particularly his lack of suspicions, and "writing off" of people.
2. Elias (I really need to re-read, but I remember getting bad vibes, which have returned)
3. Gemelli (I didn't like Dr. B, but I actually find Gemelli quite pro-town. Nonetheless, Dr. B's actions were just odd).
4. vollkan (I find him the most pro-town of the non-claimed, since he always seems logical and pointed in what he has to say, which I often agree with, which makes me confident that we think the same.)
5. Orig (I'm still wary - he could be trying to pacify us... he could be the SK or Mafia, but it does look more and more likely that he is the vig).
6. AlyG (most cleared at this point)

Sorry for the delay! I'll try and re-read Elias (who is very high up on the list, and whom I'm getting bad vibes from).