Kingmaker II-Game Over

[Yosarian2]

I am thinking of my survival due to the people i have replaced have made me look So scummy, that i think it is a minor miracle that i haven't died yet. I think that Yos is scum, due to the fact ( and i know i am going to getexecuted for this one) that i am an easy execution for any pro town player acting as king.

Wait, what? So you think I'm not pro-town because I haven't executed you yet? I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

[Thok]

Official Vote Count

Deadline: 8 PDT, Wednesday, August 29 (

note time change

)

King Yosarian2 (1):

List of Execution: Fritzler, Toaster Strudel, ThAdmiral, mnowax2, Cavane, KaleiÐoscøpe

Cavane (3):
Fritzler (3): Toaster Strudel
KaleiÐoscøpe (0): Fritzler, Mnowax, Yosarian2, petroleumjelly
Lowell (0):
Mastermind of Sin (1):
mnowax (2): Cavane
petroleumjelly (1): mnowax2, ThAdmiral, Fritzler, Cavane
RafK (0):
ThAdmiral (1):
Thesp (0): Cavane, Mastermind of Sin
Toaster Strudel (1): Fritzler

[Yosarian2]

Oh, and on another note:

Thesp: You are right that Cavane is using a lot of "weasel words", and that can be a scumtell, but I don't necessaraly think it's a huge one in this situation, with a mountainous game and no hard evidence at all and all that. It's a fair point, but I don't think it's enough in and of itself to make him scummier then some of the other suspects. You have any other points against him I should take note of?

[RafK]

I am thinking of my survival due to the people i have replaced have made me look So scummy, that i think it is a minor miracle that i haven't died yet. I think that Yos is scum, due to the fact ( and i know i am going to getexecuted for this one) that i am an easy execution for any pro town player acting as king.

Wait, what? So you think I'm not pro-town because I haven't executed you yet? I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Either he just claimed scum or he meant to say he's an easy execution for any pro-scum player acting as king but screwed it up. One or the other.

[Lowell]

vote ThAdmiral, mnowax II

. Those would be my preferences.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

You said you were starting to feel "slightly better" of me, and then stopped attacking me, so it does feel like you've backed off. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, pro-town people should always be willing to change their minds, but the timing of it makes me feel like you might be trying to back off for the moment just to save your own skin. So, could you elaborate at all when and why you started to feel better about me?

I worded it wrong. It's more in the way of: if I'd have the choice between a death of you or Mnowax/Fritz, those two would get the preference now. I still think you are scum though, even if it is slightly less.

[mnowax]

I am thinking of my survival due to the people i have replaced have made me look So scummy, that i think it is a minor miracle that i haven't died yet. I think that Yos is scum, due to the fact ( and i know i am going to getexecuted for this one) that i am an easy execution for any pro town player acting as king.

Wait, what? So you think I'm not pro-town because I haven't executed you yet? I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

Either he just claimed scum or he meant to say he's an easy execution for any pro-scum player acting as king but screwed it up. One or the other.

actually, niether. I am saying that if Yos was pro town, i would be dead by now,i reek of scumminess. Doesn't mean i am,i am just saying that i look really bad. Yos is scum because i am an easy target for a town king. Any townie with a right mind in his head would have killed me a long time ago, i just look so scummy. However, Yos is trying to execute someone that looks less scummy, because when a townie king comes up, then ill be dead as a misexecution and scum would be one step closer to winning.
here let me put it like this

Yostown:

MNOWAX looks scummy more than anyone else. I should kill him.

Yoscum:

MNOWAX looks so scummy that any other townie king would kill him. I'll build a case against another townie and get him killed, so a townie king will kill MNOWAX due to his scumminess. that way scum will get even closer to winning.

Got what i am saying?

[Yosarian2]

That's horrible logic, Mnowax. Yes, I am considering killing you, you are a scummy looking lurker. However, you are ALWAYS a scummy looking lurker, so it seems like there's a fair chance you're town dispite that. At this point in time, I'd say there's about a 50/50 chance of you being scum, which would make you a decent lynch, but I think the odds of KaleiÐoscøpe being scum seem higher to me at the moment.

And this whole line of logic is just bizzare. Not really sure how many times I've seen a person declare that they're the scummiest looking person in town, but it can't be many. That being said, odd as post 2831 is, I would have an easier time seeing a townie make it then seeing a scum make it, so your whole attempt to convince me to execute you seems to be backfiring.

[mnowax]

lol i
ts all i have to go on in this game, really. JIve got nothijng, and i can't in my lifetime re read 114 pages of this game again.

[RafK]

mnowax's logic is terrible, but he does have one point- IF he is town and Yos is scum, Yos executing mnowax would be the best realistic outcome from a scum kingship from a town point of view (because mnowax is a high probability to get executed by a town king). The other guy for whom that is true (if he is town and Yos is scum) is Fritzler.

[Mastermind of Sin]

We should execute one of Mnowax/Fritzler, then

My internet is screwy, don't expect much in the way of posting until we get new internet soon.

[mnowax]

Oh and before i forget:

Yoscum! Kill MoS!

[Cavane]

We should execute one of Mnowax/Fritzler, then

Eh, I'm not sure I like the idea of forcing a choice between those two based on mnowax's odd logic. I'm not saying there's no logic to it, it's just... odd logic.

[Mastermind of Sin]

The way I see it, Fritzler and Mnowax are likely to get executed before the end of the game. They could actually be scum, so it's not like we shouldn't execute them. If Yos2 is scum and knows they are protown, then mnowax's logic actually sorta works. Yos2 *not* executing one of them just sets up a mislynch further on down the road. If Yos2 is town, then him executing one of them now is no different from them being executed later, except for the fact that it happens now rather than later, when it might be more critical to find scum instead of being distracted by overly scummy players who aren't being helpful and could still be scum.

The only think I don't like about this is that one of Yos2, PJ, RafK, and Kscope aren't dying. While I don't feel they are all scum, I would like to shed *some* light on the arguments involving them, so as to be able to better discern the alignments of the other players. Of those 4, Kscope would give out the best information, as well as being the most likely to be scum of the players on his side of the argument.

[Thesp]

It wasn't terribly clear that a re-read of PJ was the inevitable result of your post - it seemed like an out, and an excuse to throw suspicion on PJ.

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear to you. As I stated earlier, I wasn't completely sure of what my intentions for PJ were at that point. In any case, others seemed to get the message that I was going to be looking closer at PJ after that. And if I was really looking for an excuse to throw suspicion on him, why would I have presented an analysis that concluded townie?

Because it's the most natural conclusion. I think you had to come out of there with a concrete answer, and it's highly unlikely he's scum, I think.

I also note in your last post, you threw in a throwaway line of suspicion at me. ("I wonder at your change of pace as well. Hardly anyone's been saluting your MoS flag all game long, so did you decide I might be a more popular target?")

How is that a line of suspicion? I'm simply asking you a question, because I'm very puzzled why you're after me so hard based on that fact that I don't claim to know people's alignments. If I say someone is probably scum, I say it because that's what I find likely. I'm not going to out-and-out state that someone is scum unless I have hard evidence to that fact.

"I wonder at your change of pace as well" isn't a throwaway line of suspicion? I'm not sure this is a line you really want to defend.

(One more thing - his note about "If my count and my guess are correct, we're starting to run short on mis-executions" reeks of scum who actually knows how many mis-lynches are left.)

Oh please. I really feel like you're reaching now. It doesn't take any special knowledge to reach that conclusion. This setup is quite simple, and assuming 20%-25% scum, that leaves us only two or three misses. Not rocket science.

Occasionally town will work from these conclusions, but scum are too often more keenly aware of what it will take for them to win. They're more likely to invoke it.

Oh, and on another note:

Thesp: You are right that Cavane is using a lot of "weasel words", and that can be a scumtell, but I don't necessaraly think it's a huge one in this situation, with a mountainous game and no hard evidence at all and all that. It's a fair point, but I don't think it's enough in and of itself to make him scummier then some of the other suspects. You have any other points against him I should take note of?

"No hard evidence at all and all that"? I'm uncertain what standard of evidence you are looking for. Are you suggesting that if there was a cop in this game, he would be less likely to be wishy-washy on nearly every player? Can you help clarify what you're talking about here? (It seems to me that the sort of posts he's making are far more likely to come from scum in any game, mountainous or not. It seems to me you're suggesting that since it's mountainous, townies are more likely to hedge their bets and be non-committal than townies would be in a game with power roles. This doesn't make sense to me.)

[Yosarian2]

"No hard evidence at all and all that"? I'm uncertain what standard of evidence you are looking for. Are you suggesting that if there was a cop in this game, he would be less likely to be wishy-washy on nearly every player? Can you help clarify what you're talking about here? (It seems to me that the sort of posts he's making are far more likely to come from scum in any game, mountainous or not. It seems to me you're suggesting that since it's mountainous, townies are more likely to hedge their bets and be non-committal than townies would be in a game with power roles. This doesn't make sense to me.)

Yeah, I think in a mountainous game, with zero actual "confirmed innocents", no investigatins or claims of any kind, and not even any real vote-counts that matter to go off of, townies are more likely to tend to feel a little unsure about everything, and to have a "but I could be wrong" feeling about everything. I agree that it's still somewhat scummy because scum have an actual reason to want to be vauge while townies don't, but I don't think it's as big a tell here as it would be in some other games.

[Thesp]

"No hard evidence at all and all that"? I'm uncertain what standard of evidence you are looking for. Are you suggesting that if there was a cop in this game, he would be less likely to be wishy-washy on nearly every player? Can you help clarify what you're talking about here? (It seems to me that the sort of posts he's making are far more likely to come from scum in any game, mountainous or not. It seems to me you're suggesting that since it's mountainous, townies are more likely to hedge their bets and be non-committal than townies would be in a game with power roles. This doesn't make sense to me.)

Yeah, I think in a mountainous game, with zero actual "confirmed innocents", no investigatins or claims of any kind, and not even any real vote-counts that matter to go off of, townies are more likely to tend to feel a little unsure about everything, and to have a "but I could be wrong" feeling about everything. I agree that it's still somewhat scummy because scum have an actual reason to want to be vauge while townies don't, but I don't think it's as big a tell here as it would be in some other games.

I guess I simply disagree with you here, as I'm unsure how the mountainous aspect for other players would make a townie more unsure than if he's without role info in other games. This post feels like an excuse more than anything else to me.

[Cavane]

I guess I simply disagree with you here, as I'm unsure how the mountainous aspect for other players would make a townie more unsure than if he's without role info in other games.

Because in other games vanilla townies can garner information from other role when they claim. In this game, no one's claimed anything but Townie. Basically every day is played like D1 (with the exception of having earlier days to refer to), and I've never played a game like that, on MS or otherwise.

Aside from that, the fact is that it's in my nature to put proviso's on myself whenever I have anything less than solid factual evidence. I actually play a much surer game as scum than I do as town, because as scum I know the score, to some extent.

[Yosarian2]

(shrug) Well, in non-mountainous games, townies usually have at least a LITTLE role info. One or two people who are probably innocnents because of their claims, one or two other people who are probably innocents because they pushed wagons on a scum, ect. In this game, it feels like it's all based on supposition, gut, and assumptions, more so then it would be by 114 pages into most games.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Yos2 should be totally hammering me right now.

[Fritzler]

whose he going to hammer?

[mnowax]

Look up, Fritz.

[Fritzler]

Look up, Fritz.

wow, someone doesn't have a sense of humor

[Yosarian2]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Yos2 should be totally hammering me right now.[/quote]

Heh...this would be more convincing if Mnowax hadn't just said the same thing.

Is it "suicide by Yos" day here or something?

[Fritzler]

hey yos

i'd like to live

thx