Mini 466 - Game Over

[Sir Tornado]

So, why did you not save it till the end game?

A two shot day vig, whose two shots are both protected by the doc/blocked by the roleblocker?

[klopyrev]

I think it is possible that Numeronean7 is the GodFather and Sir Tornado was blocked by a doctor the previous night. It doesn't make any sense for a doctor to block Numeronean7 now. However, is it possible for the mafia to have a doctor?

[Sir Tornado]

EBWOP:

I meant

two shot vig

instead of a

two shot day vig

in my last post...

[klopyrev]

This is the end game. We're in a ly-lo. And I'm pretty convinced that Sir Tornado and Numeronean7 were mafia when I tried to shoot them. I explained why after the end of the previous night.

[Jester]

As a matter of fact, I think klopyrev is telling the truth. When, after night one, klopyrev suddenly became bored and wanted to quit, I thought to myself "he's a power role, but he got blocked or prevented." The doctor was dead at that point, so a moment later, I thought, "mafia role-blocker." And I'll bet a large sum of cash that's exactly what we've got in this game. I thought klopyrev was the SK, but honestly, Vig works just as well.

So let's assume for a couple of minutes that klopyrev is telling the truth.

klopyrev isn't scum. I don't think Numenorean and Sir Tornado are scum: both have assisted in killing townies, true, but both have been trying to find scum. I don't think Amelia is scum. She's got a major scum-tell: saying stupid, scummy stuff. But that's her only scum-tell. I'm certainly not scum, and I think a lot of people would back me up on that.

Who does that leave?

Yeah, exactly. The guy who hasn't exactly been a lot of help. The guy I've been suspicious of all the way back to when he was Dral.

vote: SPAG

[Jester]

EBYOP: SPAG was Indy, not Dral, sorry. Suspicious all the way back when he was Indy.

[AmeliaLi]

Okay, my vote is going to be for SPAG too. I didn't like how he entered the game and helped lynch ryan without reading the entire game. I placed my vote on him then and That's where its gonna be for today.

Vote: SPAG

As for the Klop claim, I'm going to take it with a grain of salt. I think if he is the Vigilante, he used his bullets very stupidly, and if he hadn't been blocked we might have already lost the game.

[Jester]

Also I have no idea who indy is, so I don't know what to make of her/his lynch. I'll read back for that.

2) An Indy lynch?? That guy reeks of newbie town to me. Where did that come from?

Three days and no other posts from Lowell separate those two posts.

SPAG's first action on entering the game was to vote Gatorguy. Twice (first on two separate days). His only other action, whether as himself or Indy, was pack-following. He's lied a couple of times about "I'll participate tomorrow" and then not done it.

Also, a re-read of the game centering on votes has turned up some interesting things. Here's the peak of the vote on Amelia, when a band-wagon was building up behind her on day one:

AmeliaLi (4) : Indy, Nanosauromo

(Doctor)

, ryan

(Townie)

, Sir Tornado
klopyrev (2) : Numenorean7, Lowell

(Scum)

Nanosauromo (1) : Jester
Jester (1) : curiouskarmadog

(Townie)

Not Voting (4) : AmeliaLi, MightyFireball

(Townie)

, Dral

(Cop)

, klopyrev

Roles added by me. I don't think two scum would, all by themselves, vote for klopyrev, particularly that early in the game. That makes Numenorean look reasonably innocent. Indy's vote on Amelia stuck there for a long, long time, coming off only when the band-wagon on her started coming apart.

Here's the vote that lynched Lowell on day three:

865: Gatorguy91

(Cop)

, SPAG, klopyrev, Sir Tornado, Jester

It seems clear that Gatorguy investigated Lowell on night one (he started beating the drum for a Lowell lynch on day two), and either curiouskarmadog or me on night two (he was suspicious of the two of us). By this time, I think the mafia decided to sacrifice Lowell. Lowell's only real post on day three was an invitation for the cop to out himself.

Here's the vote that lynched ryan on day two:

798: Lowell

(Scum)

, Numenorean7, Sir Tornado, klopyrev, SPAG, curiouskarmadog

(Townie)

Again, mostly clears Numenorean. I don't think two scum would vote one right after the other. There's SPAG, putting ryan at L-1.

And for completeness, here's the vote that lynched Nano:

584: Jester, Numenorean7, Sir Tornado, MightyFireball

(Townie)

, Lowell

(Scum)

, Gatorguy91

(Cop)

, Ryan

(Townie)

Not much I can say about this one yet, other than the fact that the only person in on all three lynches was Sir Tornado. That means that if Indy/SPAG isn't scum, Sir Tornado almost certainly is, and ST has played a brilliant game.

So, for now, my vote is locked. I'm convinced SPAG is scum. There's a damn good chance that there's a third scum, which at this point I think might be either Sir Tornado (he does have a 4/4 record as scum ) or Amelia.

[Jester]

One more thing: Heh. I just realized. If SPAG is not scum, then AmeliaLi/Sir Tornado almost certainly

are

a scum-pair, just like Dral said alllllll the way back in his 166. I think I'm gonna re-read the first 166 posts of the game.

[AmeliaLi]

That means that if Indy/SPAG isn't scum, Sir Tornado almost certainly is, and ST has played a brilliant game.

I have not agreed with anything in this game as much as I agree with that statement.

Even if ST is town, he's still played a brilliant game.

[Sir Tornado]

When, after night one, klopyrev suddenly became bored and wanted to quit, I thought to myself "he's a power role, but he got blocked or prevented." The doctor was dead at that point, so a moment later, I thought, "mafia role-blocker." And I'll bet a large sum of cash that's exactly what we've got in this game. I thought klopyrev was the SK, but honestly, Vig works just as well.

Interesting theory...

Except that Klopyrev has said that he did not try to shoot anyone N1. He said he did it on N2 or N3.

[Numenorean7]

I suppose it is possible that ST is a godfather. But he is right, we shouldn't throw our votes around.

Unvote

[Gatorguy91]

Post removed - dead player.

[Sir Tornado]

Also I have no idea who indy is, so I don't know what to make of her/his lynch. I'll read back for that.

2) An Indy lynch?? That guy reeks of newbie town to me. Where did that come from?

Three days and no other posts from Lowell separate those two posts.

SPAG's first action on entering the game was to vote Gatorguy. Twice (first on two separate days). His only other action, whether as himself or Indy, was pack-following. He's lied a couple of times about "I'll participate tomorrow" and then not done it.

Also, a re-read of the game centering on votes has turned up some interesting things. Here's the peak of the vote on Amelia, when a band-wagon was building up behind her on day one:

AmeliaLi (4) : Indy, Nanosauromo

(Doctor)

, ryan

(Townie)

, Sir Tornado
klopyrev (2) : Numenorean7, Lowell

(Scum)

Nanosauromo (1) : Jester
Jester (1) : curiouskarmadog

(Townie)

Not Voting (4) : AmeliaLi, MightyFireball

(Townie)

, Dral

(Cop)

, klopyrev

Roles added by me. I don't think two scum would, all by themselves, vote for klopyrev, particularly that early in the game. That makes Numenorean look reasonably innocent. Indy's vote on Amelia stuck there for a long, long time, coming off only when the band-wagon on her started coming apart.

Here's the vote that lynched Lowell on day three:

865: Gatorguy91

(Cop)

, SPAG, klopyrev, Sir Tornado, Jester

It seems clear that Gatorguy investigated Lowell on night one (he started beating the drum for a Lowell lynch on day two), and either curiouskarmadog or me on night two (he was suspicious of the two of us). By this time, I think the mafia decided to sacrifice Lowell. Lowell's only real post on day three was an invitation for the cop to out himself.

Here's the vote that lynched ryan on day two:

798: Lowell

(Scum)

, Numenorean7, Sir Tornado, klopyrev, SPAG, curiouskarmadog

(Townie)

Again, mostly clears Numenorean. I don't think two scum would vote one right after the other. There's SPAG, putting ryan at L-1.

And for completeness, here's the vote that lynched Nano:

584: Jester, Numenorean7, Sir Tornado, MightyFireball

(Townie)

, Lowell

(Scum)

, Gatorguy91

(Cop)

, Ryan

(Townie)

Not much I can say about this one yet, other than the fact that the only person in on all three lynches was Sir Tornado. That means that if Indy/SPAG isn't scum, Sir Tornado almost certainly is, and ST has played a brilliant game.

So, for now, my vote is locked. I'm convinced SPAG is scum. There's a damn good chance that there's a third scum, which at this point I think might be either Sir Tornado (he does have a 4/4 record as scum ) or Amelia.

I cannot say I agree with this post at all. Firstly, I do not like your reasons for clearing Numenorean7

twice

for WIFOMish reasons. First time, you say that Num7 can't be the scum because he and Lowell were together on the Klop-wagon early on, and then the second time, you argue that Numenorean7 cannot be scum, because the scum would not vote ryan after one another. I would like to say, that both those reasons are crappy. In fact, those are the cases for Lowell and Num7 to be scum together.

Also, please note, that my vote on the Amelia wagon was merely a pressure vote made to have Amelia answer the questions I had asked her. You will notice that the vote came off directly after she had answered those questions.

I could, had I really been wanting to lynch Amelia dug up more further and found out enough reasons to keep the vote there, and allow the wagon to build up even more, but I honestly didn't do it, because I did not want to risk a mislynch. I am town.

I was the only person in the three lynches, I agree. But, don't forget that one of those lynches was a scum lynch. And, don't forget, that the Lowell wagon was losing momentum in the lull in the play on D3 before I voted Lowell and got the game moving again. The perfect play for scum, in that case would have been to lie low and hope for the Lowell wagon to fizzle out, and start chasing someone else. (which is what Numenorean7 did). Also notice, that Numenorean7 was on 2 townie mis lynches, yet he kept himself off the scum lynch.

If I were scum, and had I played a "brilliant game", you would not have been suspecting me right now. In my 4 games as scum, I have been lynched only once, whereas, I pretty much suck as town (I haven't been lynched yet as town, but I make bad decisions at endgame, which makes my side lose games)

[Numenorean7]

The perfect play for scum, in that case would have been to lie low and hope for the Lowell wagon to fizzle out, and start chasing someone else. (which is what Numenorean7 did). Also notice, that Numenorean7 was on 2 townie mis lynches, yet he kept himself off the scum lynch.

I don't quite see how you can say I was lying low with regard to Lowell. I thought I made it pretty clear he was my choice for the lynch, but I felt there were enough votes on him at the moment. I did not know, at the time, that he was scum.

[AmeliaLi]

Well this is lovely. Almost on page two.

I thought I made it pretty clear he was my choice for the lynch, but I felt there were enough votes on him at the moment. I did not know, at the time, that he was scum.

Something about that is just slightly...odd... If that is where you wanted your vote, then why wasn't your vote there? And no one knew that he was truly scum at the time, unless Gator had investigated him. Which could be why we no longer have him....

[Sir Tornado]

Amelia, what do you think of Klopyrev's claim?

[AmeliaLi]

I don't know what to make of it other than to put it on another long list of stupid yet interesting things he's done.

[Sir Tornado]

Second, I tried during the last 2 nights to kill 2 players who I thought were mafia. I tried to kill Sir Tornado and Numeronean7. Both nights, my actions were not done, but

as Kison says: "Your night action was not ignored."

I am not sure whether I believe the bolded part...

A Vig is a killing role, not an information gathering role. Generally, the only roles which the mod PMs back are the roles which gather information (Cop, Watchers, Trackers, etc).

I thought, which I will admit is without first hand experience, that when night actions get blocked, the Mod generally does not inform the person who made the night action that the night action is blocked -- especially when they could see the result the next day. I am making this assertion based on the fact that when a doctor protects a person successfully, the killer (whether scum, SK or a Vig) is generally not told that "His night action is not ignored". The situation is same when a cop is role blocked (he is generally simply not given results of his investigation)

I don't know why I did not see this yesterday, but I believe Klopyrev's claim even less now.

[AmeliaLi]

The only reason why I would think Kison would say something like that is if Klopy here deicded to bug the mod about why you weren't killed or Nume wasn't killed....

But I do agree that it does seem a little off.

[Sir Tornado]

The only reason why I would think Kison would say something like that is if Klopy here deicded to bug the mod about why you weren't killed or Nume wasn't killed....

I don't think that will be the case. Had Klopyrev done that, Kison would have mod killed him. Notice rule number: 6

Don’t quote any PMs from me.

Violation of the above rule is

generally

a mod killable offence. Because Klopyrev is alive, I think we can conclude, that he had not bugged the mod on why I or Num7 weren't killed. In fact, Klopyrev actually put what Kison was supposed to have said to him in inverted commas (in other words he quoted Kison) in his post 867 (which I have bolded in my post 893). The fact that he is still alive points to the fact that he did not quote Kison (in other words, he is not telling the truth, or at least the complete truth)

Mod: Can you confirm whether quoting PMs, or any form of outside the thread communication, from/with you is a mod-killable offence?

[Numenorean7]

Something about that is just slightly...odd... If that is where you wanted your vote, then why wasn't your vote there? And no one knew that he was truly scum at the time, unless Gator had investigated him. Which could be why we no longer have him....

I didn't want to quick-lynch Lowell with no discussion. In hindsight, voting him to keep discussion going would have been a good idea, but after his quick trip to L-1 (only 15 posts/2 days after the day opened) I decided to wait on my Lowell vote, and I honestly didn't think of putting it back on. And I did have some serious doubts about Gatorguy too. I would guess Gatorguy investigated Lowell N1, and that is why he was so adamant about "Lowell Is scum. HE IS SCUM. LYNCH HIM!!" (595). That could be why he died....

[klopyrev]

Oops... I shouldn't have quoted. And yes, I did bug the mod. After all, this is my first time playing any role other than Town and I don't know the specifics.

[Jester]

Sir Tornado, the more you push this point, the more I have doubts about you being pro-town.

If klopyrev is telling the truth, then having him mod-killed reduces us by one townie and makes a town loss more or less inevitable. Pushing so hard on this point makes you anti-town. That would make you mafia.

If klopyrev is lying, then he didn't quote the mod, he's not going to get mod-killed for it, and you've learned nothing except that he's lied about a role. It doesn't make klopyrev mafia.

The more I think about this, the more I'm convinced that klopyrev is telling the truth. There's nothing to be gained by lying about this, and klopyrev strikes me as impatient-insane enough to pointlessly role-claim like this. If he were role-claiming under threat of lynch, that would be one thing and I could understand you pressing so hard, but he's not and so I don't.

klopyrev is almost certainly telling the truth, and you're doing much to convince me that you're the final mafia.

[klopyrev]

Pointlessly role claiming? This is not pointless. I'm just giving the town information they wouldn't otherwise have. Why would I not do it? I have no more bullets left and I'm just a normal townie now. There's nothing I lose by role claiming, but there's a lot to gain.