Mini-Normal 1713: Mystery Mansion Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Davsto]

First, someone being new to this site affects their ability to get a joke? What?

Secondly, enough people have pointed out that it's a joke and yet the vote is still there.

[Expedience]

First, someone being new to this site affects their ability to get a joke? What?

Yes, I don't see how difficult that is to see given the nature of the joke. It requires some meta knowledge that people don't seriously assert that they are Town early on day one, and that Scum aren't that easy to spot.

Secondly, enough people have pointed out that it's a joke and yet the vote is still there.

While I agree with you that RVS is over and that vote should be removed, it's not relevant to your vote which occured earlier, I still think at that moment in time your vote was scummy. It justifies the fact that you haven't removed your vote, but I don't think you should've put it there in the first place.

[Accountant]

First, someone being new to this site affects their ability to get a joke? What?

Secondly, enough people have pointed out that it's a joke and yet the vote is still there.

Mario has said nothing to convince me that my vote on him is unjustified. I

still

don't understand what his case against me is. Like, can someone explain why he thinks I'm scummy because I don't understand anything he's saying right now. He's just throwing out sarcastic questions and acting like I'm proven scum or some shit.

Slandaar: 26 was a joke vote. I meant it to give off a "raging townie votes cocky player" vibe, and followed it up with 28 after you posted 27. Also, it was in RVS.

read my ISO. You're my biggest scumread and so I act like your scum.
Also, why did you design a post to look like "raging townie"?

Because it's part of the joke?

[Wanderer-nl]

I'd like Mario and Accountant to take a break from each other. I think it's TvT and it's letting scum coast by quietly. I don't have much time right now, have to go in a bit, but won't be long and I'll reread this thread and look at several iso's to break out of this Mario vs Accountant for a while. If either one is scum it will show when we change the subject but I dont think this 'you're scum no I'm not yes you are' is going to help us much further.

[Accountant]

Wanderer is active, but I null read her, so I'm going to go over her ISO tomorrow.

[SilverWolf]

Hi guys, sorry I haven't been around in a couple days. I've been super busy and wasn't feeling well yesterday. I'm going to go through and read up on what I missed and catch up in a little bit here.

Also, my vote is still on Performer for an awkward entrance but the game has moved on quite a bit from that so I'm going to re-evaluate things.

UNVOTE:

For now, while I catch up.

[All Alone]

prod dodge

[SilverWolf]

I have my own thoughts on All Alone's vote on Expedience, but before I share them(and share them I will) I'm going to wait for Expedience's reaction to it first. Expedience, what are your thoughts on All Alone's vote on you?

I didn't see that you ever did this. Could you do this please or link me to where you already did?

[SilverWolf]

112 from absta and 114 from Wanderer are pretty good and mirror my own though process on Accountant's behavior towards me early game. She seemed to spend a considerable amount of time trying to cast suspicion on me for my observation of her and Slaandar's behavior early game. She really didn't seem to like my answers per this 91, this 93 and this 95 when you add that to this 89 you would think she would of had a vote on me by now but she's voting Performer. Then she kind of suddenly drops it here 98 which was kind of strange because I don't know what I said that would warrant that. Accountant, perhaps you could give an idea of how you are reading me now?

The further explanation of the Performer vote here 117 is completely different than the reasons given in 89 so I'm not sure why these reasons were not given in the first place? It's almost like she had time to think of a better answer and gave it then.

I'm going to FoS Accountant for this for now because I'm not done going through the game and I want to address other points that have come up with Mario's enterance but I'll get back to this in a bit.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Slandaar
1. OMGUS
2. Only player to confirm via PM

or Private Topic???

3. Tied leading wagons, fight!

No. 2 gives me a sense of trying to work things out. A townread.
Also Slandaar attracting attention with his first posts gives me a townread on him.

Mario, please explain this better. Why are you townreading Akarin off of this post? Especially considering you are scumreading Akarin off of this 151 and this 156. How are you reading Akarin now?

Also, you said you townread Performer here 169 and then later said you don't yet have a read on Perfomer 197. Can you explain this inconsistency?

[SilverWolf]

I don't really think Mario's voting Accountant for playing the newb card to be a very valid scumread. Accountant has not, from what I've seen, been playing like she doesn't know what she's doing. Clearly, her response to the RQS was simply to give an example of a game she was in and talk about what happened.

143 is a good observation. Starting to lean town on absta. This is the second time Accountant has better explained herself later while not giving that reasoning in the first place. This pings as scummy to me. Also, 132 basically just sheeps Wanderer's wording here which I don't really like. Mario points that out here which is good 139. FoS is getting stronger on Accountant.

142 looks town from Mario. Although I didn't like his original reasoning for voting Accountant, this kind of play reminds me more of town Mario than scum Mario from the experience I have with him so far. Scum Mario is lurky and plays it safe, where town Mario is very aggressive in his pushes and does tunnel, hyper posts, and doesn't mind drawing attention to himself.

[Wanderer-nl]

@performer

Personally can't decipher who's really town or mafia right now.

There's definitely been enough content to at least get a weak read on people. The fact that you don't have any reads at this stage is suspicious.

What do you think of Accountant and Mario?

Since more time has passed and they happened to post more, it seems to be they're both town ( I could be wrong, they could be third party or mafia) from what I could gather on their posts. So far, it looks like they're trying to lead town with scum hunting.

As for Accountant stating Mario is seeing her as proven scum, it looks to me like he's just trying to scumhunt.

I'm leaning slight town so far, on absta101 .

Which posts from Accountant and Mario indicate to you they are scumhunting? And why?
Any early scumreads you wish to share?

[Slandaar]

Alright I will try and explain this as best I can.

Wanderer says this:

I said his tone was the same as his tone in another game where he was town.

Now, I find this just wrong, it is the wrong way to defend my opening post. The tone is the same as my town tone so it's null doesn't really tackle the content of the post and the reasons people were voting me. I have a hard time imagining town thinking in this way.

Also; I find it hard to believe town can take my tone, from my first post, and think it is the same as a game where I was completely serious.

VOTE: Wanderer

I am not that confident but this seems the best to me.

[SilverWolf]

OK, So I lost a post, dammit, I hate when that happens. Shit. OK, I'll try again. LOL

I didn't really like 177 from Expedience because it strongly appears that he is trying to direct the conversation away from subjects he doesn't like and onto subjects he does want discussed. It comes off as very manipulative and his response to All Alone's vote was just to kind of use pretty words to say he's trying to stoke conversation when in reality, he's not really.

That was a mistype. It should be "where town claimed town", which means that since scum would know you played in games where town claimed town, they would be incentivized to claim town to seem town themselves.

I'd say this is a

very

weak argument, since SilverWolf didn't say that she believed this to be a Town tell before Slandaar made his comment. It would require scum to both read the games that she mentioned, and also require SilverWolf noticing and mentioning it. If SilverWolf and Slandaar were both scum, I really don't think they'd be this blatant.

Nevertheless, I don't think Town are any more likely to claim Town during RVS / RQS than scum.

I agree with Expi here.
However, one think I'd like to ask is; why did the vote go onto Performer rather than Expedience?
Is it because Expi's scum and therefore the other was chosen to be wagoned?

Wait, do you mean "why did the vote go onto SilverWolf rather than Expedience?". Otherwise I don't get what you're saying. If you meant SilverWolf, it was because SilverWolf was a more experienced player and hence her judgement would be expected to be better than mine. That was implied in #67.

Why are you answering for Accountant here? This is another attempt to control the flow of conversation and I don't understand why you feel the need to interject yourself so many times into these conversations and defend or answer for others. Another example of this is 88 where you are interjection yourself into the comment I made to Wanderer. I've seen this kind of play from scum before where they kind of soft defend people like this and I do notice you are soft defending Accountant and Wanderer.

I do think you are likely to be scum here. What helps solidifies this for me is this exchange. 181 you say you don't want to vote. Account and Wanderer make these posts 184 and 185 and suddenly you are ready to vote for Mario.

I mean if you were town, you could tell them to go take a flying leap and you'll vote whenever you want for whoever you want. But instead you instantly caved to the pressure and voted-that strikes me as appeasy.

VOTE: Expedience

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Slandaar
1. OMGUS
2. Only player to confirm via PM

or Private Topic???

3. Tied leading wagons, fight!

No. 2 gives me a sense of trying to work things out. A townread.
Also Slandaar attracting attention with his first posts gives me a townread on him.

Mario, please explain this better. Why are you townreading Akarin off of this post? Especially considering you are scumreading Akarin off of this 151 and this 156. How are you reading Akarin now?

Also, you said you townread Performer here 169 and then later said you don't yet have a read on Perfomer 197. Can you explain this inconsistency?

1. It was an early stage of my reading. I wanted to note a townlean on Akarin at the time. I am now scumleaning on Akarin.
2. I actually completely forgot about Performer I was mostly thinking about Accountant at that time, and wasn't thinking about much else. Not really remembering him, I said I didn't have a read. That is actually a trait in my TvT tunnels. Once I've overlooked the game a bit further, I might unvote

[MarioManiac4]

I don't really think Mario's voting Accountant for playing the newb card to be a very valid scumread. Accountant has not, from what I've seen, been playing like she doesn't know what she's doing. Clearly, her response to the RQS was simply to give an example of a game she was in and talk about what happened.

143 is a good observation. Starting to lean town on absta. This is the second time Accountant has better explained herself later while not giving that reasoning in the first place. This pings as scummy to me. Also, 132 basically just sheeps Wanderer's wording here which I don't really like. Mario points that out here which is good 139. FoS is getting stronger on Accountant.

142 looks town from Mario. Although I didn't like his original reasoning for voting Accountant, this kind of play reminds me more of town Mario than scum Mario from the experience I have with him so far. Scum Mario is lurky and plays it safe, where town Mario is very aggressive in his pushes and does tunnel, hyper posts, and doesn't mind drawing attention to himself.

1. The newb card argument isn't really the basis for my Accountant scumread at the moment.
2. I have done the same thing before (see: Newbie 1629) except with a scumread instead of self-defence. Not sure if it's different, but it's still good to point out.
3. To be honest, that meta tell isn't really valid anymore. I almost like playing scum as much as playing town. (See: Newbie 1631)

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: Slandaar
1. OMGUS
2. Only player to confirm via PM

or Private Topic???

3. Tied leading wagons, fight!

No. 2 gives me a sense of trying to work things out. A townread.
Also Slandaar attracting attention with his first posts gives me a townread on him.

Mario, please explain this better. Why are you townreading Akarin off of this post? Especially considering you are scumreading Akarin off of this 151 and this 156. How are you reading Akarin now?

Also, you said you townread Performer here 169 and then later said you don't yet have a read on Perfomer 197. Can you explain this inconsistency?

1. It was an early stage of my reading. I wanted to note a townlean on Akarin at the time. I am now scumleaning on Akarin.
2. I actually completely forgot about Performer I was mostly thinking about Accountant at that time, and wasn't thinking about much else. Not really remembering him, I said I didn't have a read. That is actually a trait in my TvT tunnels. Once I've overlooked the game a bit further, I might unvote

So are you saying that your tunnel on Accountant is a TvT now?

[MarioManiac4]

Alright I will try and explain this as best I can.

Wanderer says this:

I said his tone was the same as his tone in another game where he was town.

Now, I find this just wrong, it is the wrong way to defend my opening post. The tone is the same as my town tone so it's null doesn't really tackle the content of the post and the reasons people were voting me. I have a hard time imagining town thinking in this way.

Also; I find it hard to believe town can take my tone, from my first post, and think it is the same as a game where I was completely serious.

VOTE: Wanderer

I am not that confident but this seems the best to me.

That is one post. I see where you're coming from but W-NL reads town due to gut. What do you think of other players?

[MarioManiac4]

VOTE: Slandaar
1. OMGUS
2. Only player to confirm via PM

or Private Topic???

3. Tied leading wagons, fight!

No. 2 gives me a sense of trying to work things out. A townread.
Also Slandaar attracting attention with his first posts gives me a townread on him.

Mario, please explain this better. Why are you townreading Akarin off of this post? Especially considering you are scumreading Akarin off of this 151 and this 156. How are you reading Akarin now?

Also, you said you townread Performer here 169 and then later said you don't yet have a read on Perfomer 197. Can you explain this inconsistency?

1. It was an early stage of my reading. I wanted to note a townlean on Akarin at the time. I am now scumleaning on Akarin.
2. I actually completely forgot about Performer I was mostly thinking about Accountant at that time, and wasn't thinking about much else. Not really remembering him, I said I didn't have a read. That is actually a trait in my TvT tunnels. Once I've overlooked the game a bit further, I might unvote

So are you saying that your tunnel on Accountant is a TvT now?

It could be. Could not be.

[Akarin]

@Akarin: How serious were you in 34?

I was serious for page 2. My vote on Slandaar was a more "real" vote than anyone elses to that point I think (he had OMGUSed a person right after they voted for him, and the confirm via private topic thing isn't crazy IMO) but it wasn't some big serious case either. I have a town read on Slandaar at this point.

[Akarin]

@Akarin: Why are you voting for Silverwolf while she was actually critisizing the votes on Slandaar and Accountant?

I'm voting Wolfie because her reasoning looks the least real. I think the votes on Slandaar and Accountant over their "gambits" were silly, I'm not disagreeing with Wolfie on that, but the way she reacted to the votes on them, not calling out the votes as based on bad reasoning, but acting like Accountant and Slandaar were clearly town (rather than not particularly scummy) doesn't read like actually trying to figure out alignment. It reads like needing to have reads, and possibly knowing their alignment.

Joking:

VOTE: Accountant

Slandaar is practically confirmed Town, no scum would pull such an obscene gambit.

Does not look like joking:

Slandaar and Accountant are both prob not scum. I really don't see scum pulling either of those gambits-claiming town like that or claiming scum like that.

He could do it as scum but it doesn't seem likely right now. The banter between him and Accountant seemed pretty carefree and easygoing. I see nothing scummy there and still don't understand the wagon on either one of them. I've seen town claims in several games and every single time the person has been town. I've also seen the joking scum claims and most times they are town but not always. However, I'm not seeing anything scummy in Accountant's play right now.

[Akarin]

I'm also not a fan of Wolfie's post 90, looking up a bunch of random games where town claims town is useless (Accountant's "Plural of anecdote isn't data" comment), not to mention trivially easy for scum to do, but also oddly defensive. Likewise the insistence on first hand accounts only.

Are they games where they did it right away at the beginning of the game and also games you played in as well as saw it first hand like mine were? If you can find that, I'll completely retract my statement all together.

Way too committed to defending this bad read.

[SilverWolf]

@Akarin: How serious were you in 34?

I was serious for page 2. My vote on Slandaar was a more "real" vote than anyone elses to that point I think (he had OMGUSed a person right after they voted for him, and the confirm via private topic thing isn't crazy IMO) but it wasn't some big serious case either. I have a town read on Slandaar at this point.

Why are you reading him as town? Especially since you didn't like my read on him at the beginning of the game. What happened between that and now to make you think he's town?

[absta101]

@Akarin

but acting like Accountant and Slandaar were clearly town (rather than not particularly scummy) doesn't read like actually trying to figure out alignment.

How does SilverWolf saying "prob not scum" translate to her thinking they are clearly town?
--

@Performer

Since more time has passed and they happened to post more, it seems to be they're both town

( I could be wrong, they could be third party or mafia)

I don't like the bolded. It goes without saying that you could be wrong, anyone can be wrong. You feeling the need to state it seems like you want to have an excuse for when you feel like changing reads.

Do you still have no scum reads?

[absta101]

but it nevertheless makes him lean scum for me. I support the wagon against him.

Don't really feel like voting, I haven't played a game on this site with this many players so I'll wait a bit to see how it works out. I'll remove my RVS vote from Accountant though.

I agree with Silverwolf; this is really scummy. Town-Expedience would've definitely voted Mario here seeing as he was a scum read and he supported the wagon. However he doesn't because he wants to see how it works out. That's bullshit imo. Chances are he is scum who is afraid of committing to a read. This is backed up by the fact that he only votes Mario after he was told it was weird of him not to.

VOTE: Expedience
Still leaning scum on Mario, Accountant and Performer.