Mafia 68: Ork - Game over!

[Kinetic]

Unvote Vote IH

I'm sorry, his resistance is beyond scummy.

[curiouskarmadog]

Unvote Vote IH

I'm sorry, his resistance is beyond scummy.

seems to me that he is fighting a losing battle...wouldnt scum just try to fit in?

[Guardian]

Unvote Vote IH

I'm sorry, his resistance is beyond scummy.

seems to me that he is fighting a losing battle...wouldnt scum just try to fit in?

wifom.

[Kinetic]

Plus despite what you're saying CKD, if IH

does

derail the Mass Claim, no matter how scummy it makes him personally look, the entire scum group wins. Lynching one scum but letting the other three hide is a huge advantage when you can't trust the cop on Day 2 to still be the cop, even more so in this game than in others.

[Guardian]

Plus despite what you're saying CKD, if IH

does

derail the Mass Claim, no matter how scummy it makes him personally look, the entire scum group wins. Lynching one scum but letting the other three hide is a huge advantage when you can't trust the cop on Day 2 to still be the cop, even more so in this game than in others.

Wow, that's actually true.

unvote

.

I do not support the day ending or anyone being lynched until mass claim happens, or until a small group of people refuse to mass claim, and we lynch them.

[Tarhalindur]

Since mass claiming seems to be the topic du jour (for good reason), I'll put my two cents in on the matter.

As I see it, there are four options which help the town avoid WIFOM regarding Mafia hiding among the power roles:

1) Mass claim, Angel claims townie.
Pros: This gets all the roles into the open (except Zindaras), making it harder for Mafia to falseclaim. This also helps keep our Inspector alive (IMO, the Inspector is the most important role for us in this game), as after mass claim he *should* (IMO) be doc-protected until the doc dies.
Cons: We probably lose the Priest N1 (making Inspector less confirmable). Could backfire horribly if Zindaras was one of {Angel, Inspector, Priest} (other roles are mostly confirmable - Vig fires tonight to confirm himself, mason can target someone to gain nighttalk).

2) Mass claim, Angel and Priest claim townie (Priest should target Inspector tonight and claim tomorrow in this scenario)
Pros: Same as option 1, and it's far less likely that we'll lose the Priest.
Cons: Could backfire horribly if Zindaras was the Angel, could backfire horribly in the unlikely event that the Zindaras was Inspector and the mafia kills the Priest tonight.

Note: If we follow this plan and the Priest claims that the Inspector is not the Inspector, we lynch the Priest, not the Inspector.

3) No claims, ever.
Pros: Prevents mafia from hiding as power roles.
Cons: Makes the game effectively mountainous, now impossible due to multiple claims.

4) Vig and Governor claim, nobody else does.
Pros: Same as 3 (Vig and Governor are confirmable by Mod action - NK and no-lynch, respectively)
Cons: Makes all power roles except the Angel and Vig useless (Vig fires each night, Angel protects the Vig)

On balance, I believe that Option 2 (Mass claim, Angel and Priest claim Townie, Priest investigates claimed Inspector and claims tomorrow) is the best option - it maximizes the benefits of a mass claim (mass claim is, on balance, best for the town, since all other options nullify most of our power roles or allow Mafia to hide as power roles), while minimizing the drawbacks of said massclaim.

If we do, in fact, go through with the massclaim (and especially if both the Priest and Angel claim townie), I think that we should probably make Kinetic confirm himself today (lynch someone and have him pardon that person). This will maximize the number of people who are alive tonight, reducing the chances that the Mafia will randomly hit a power role should they fire into the claimed townies.

[Guardian]

I agree that option two is better, upon reflection.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Option 2 wins

[Yosarian2]

Another disadvantage to #1 and #2 is that you're telling the vig to fire tonight, which means that, assuming he fires at one of the claimed townies, there's a significant chance that he'll vig the doctor.

Anyway, if we have the doctor and the priest claim townie, then we only get 5 confirmed roles out of the deal. And how does that help us, exactally? So long as we give people a chance to claim before being lynched, there's basically no risk of us ever lynching the mason, the vig, or the govenor anyway, because those roles are completly confirmable and the town would have to be full of idiots to claim a role that confirmable in an open role game. So the only real advantages to any kind of mass claim now are:

1. Somewhat narrows the pool of people for the cop to check tonight.

2. Makes it harder for the scum to claim cop or priest later in the game (unless we tell the priest to claim townie today). There's very little danger of the scum claiming gov, vig, or mason at any time before lynch or lose anyway, as it's so easy to check those roles.

3. A *slightly* improved chance of lynching correctly early game, although I highly doubt that we'd lynch one of the power roles in any case, unless someone was dumb enough to hammer before waiting for a claim.

And the disadvantage is that, once the doc dies, all of our power roles/confirmed pro-town people are toast.

Am I missing something here? I'm really starting to re-think this whole thing. If we get really lucky, and the cop and doc are both still alive, and the cop gets off, say, 3-4 investigations before the scum kill off the doc, a mass claim could win us the game. Otherwise, though, it could hurt us more then help us.

[Flameaxe]

Ok, so I'm gonna start my reread of the whole thread soon, but I figured I would say that after reading a lot of your guys' reasoning behind the massclaim idea, I am leaning towards it more than my original thoughts of no. Does seem a bit risky, but overall it will most likely help.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yos, you are assuming that the scum will all claim townie. If they counterclaim any power roles, they can't just start killing them off, because that blows their cover. And, if they all claim townie, we have 5 power roles confirmed and like 12-15 townies or w/e to sift through for scum, between the Investigator, Vig, and our Lynch.

With your strategy of only having the mason/vig/governor claim when they are about to be lynched, that means that the cop can never give us innocent results, because it can't be believed. We could run hypocop if it weren't for the fact that we have only partial-reveal.

We completely waste having all of our power roles by having them not claim today, because there is no way we can possible trust them after this.

I feel that it is better to have power roles that might be killed off eventually but at least be able to use them, than to have power roles we can't trust at all, and who might die before they give us any useful results, and who we cannot prove was said role if they die without getting to claim.

[Guardian]

[Kinetic]

/agree with Option 2/MOS

[Sefer]

It might actually be good to consider only having the Investigator claim (well, Investigator and Governor at this point). The Angel will protect him until his own demise, and the Priest can investigate tonight and claim tomorrow. Any other roles would claim when lynch nears, and any other power role has a way we can confirm him. The main benefit of this is keeping the vig from being killed as early; the downside is it doesn't force scum to commit to a claim and makes it more likely that the vig will target a power role. Thoughts?

[IH]

I think this is no longer a mass claim personally.

[IH]

EBWOP:If you only want half of the power roles to claim townie as well, I don't even see how there is an advantage to mass claiming....

[Gorrad]

I agree with option one or two, don't really care. I'm convinced, Mass claim is the way to go. Yos, how is the Vig accidently hitting the angel that different from a regular game? The Vig uses logic to deduce scummy people, then offs them, it's not random! It's one of the things that make this game fun, it's logic based, not a d20 where you have a 1/20 chance to fail and a 4/20 chance to crit! We should all support this, it's a good plan.

-Gorrad

[Kinetic]

Updated

spectrumvoid

Shanba

Support

Guardian

Support

scotmany12

Against?

Urzassedatives

Fireaxe

Support

Gorrad

Support

Sefer

Support

Khelvaster

Against

CoolBot

Support

IH

Against

but will claim
Mastermind of Sin

Support

Kinetic

Support

Pie_is_good

Support

Mert

Tarhalindur

Support

Yosarian2

Support

Haut Boy

Never Posted still...

curiouskarmadog

Against

but will claim

So we have 11 Supports
2 Against, but will claim (CKD, IH)
2 Against, but haven't said if they would claim with consensus (Scotmany, Khel)
1 Never Posted (Haut Boy)

Some things might be, just bold Support or Against in your post and I'll update if I'm wrong.

[scotmany12]

If everyone else claims, then I will. As of now, I'm still trying to work everything out. I'm not totally against it, or am I totally for it. The way I see it, it can either help the town greatly, or lose the game for the town.

[Kinetic]

Scot do you mean if everyone else agrees to claim or you want everyone to claim before you? Because on the official list you're 2nd since Guardian already claimed

[scotmany12]

If everyone agrees to claim, then I will claim.

[IH]

claiming last is actually a disadvantage in this game btw.

[curiouskarmadog]

claiming last is actually a disadvantage in this game btw.

right

[Shanba]

Ok, I think we should massclaim (though I'm still waiting for Guardian to respond to my post.) I like option 2, as it limits the options for the scum quite a bit. However, I would say that vig should not kill. The danger of hitting the priest or doc and the fact that misvigging loses us lynches I don't like one bit.

However, I am still waiting from confirmation from Khel and Haut Boy/replacement (he really needs replacing) that they will go through with the claim before claiming.

[Guardian]

Ok, I think we should massclaim (though I'm still waiting for Guardian to respond to my post.) I like option 2, as it limits the options for the scum quite a bit. However, I would say that vig should not kill. The danger of hitting the priest or doc and the fact that misvigging loses us lynches I don't like one bit.

What post? That we claimed too early? I assumed we were going to mass claim (and we ARE going to mass claim) so I went one spot early to jump start the process. ...?

The vig should kill -- if he hits the priest or doc, at least we will all KNOW he hit the priest and/or doc, and he will be trying to hit scum. Removing people who are not-confirmed innocents while we have like 4/5 confirmed innocents is definitely a good thing. Vig should definitely vig someone tonight.

However, I am still waiting from confirmation from Khel and Haut Boy/replacement (he really needs replacing) that they will go through with the claim before claiming.

Why? If Khel and Haut Boy both refuse to claim, we make them claim. We definitely have enough of a majority to start mass claiming now.