433: Dry, bland, generic mafia: Game Over

[Off the Mark]

And actually, of those quotes you quoted, #2, #3, #4 (considering that statement was followed by a BUT), and #5 are in absolute agreement with each other. And #1 is not a strong point, it's a response to Pie's theory. You are trying to misrepresent my opinions.

[Dasquian]

In what way? Those posts were

all from the same page

. At the top of the page - 2 days ago - you rip into flea with:

I can't see a lurker replacing into a game who is TOWN but is under major suspicion and then just ignoring it. Seems like he should be fighting tooth and nail to stay alive. But he just pretty much said, "yeah, superstring looked scummy, I'll try to help you." and then disappeared. That seems like scum behavior to me who is disgusted with being put into a no-win situation. I'm happy with this vote.

Then,

without anyone moving any votes

, a day later, you decide that the bandwagon is on the wrong track and move your vote to gorckat. Am I wrong in thinking that this is a little odd? I can't also help but wonder if pie's post 787 was perhaps a contributing factor - did you maybe think that with pie saying gorckat's previous games weren't in his favour, there was an opening to swing the attention to him?

Please explain why you had a change of heart. gorckat and pete d were already voting ssf when you joined them. I still think the pressure should stay on ssf for now, but I would love to hear what you're thinking on this one.

And as you may have gathered, I was less than impressed that the simple act of agreeing with pete d that your actions were dodgy suddenly puts me as being a possible third scum (though granted, that in itself seems to be more of a naive town tell). I freely admit the OMGUS bias here, but I think it's worth bringing up.

[Off the Mark]

Seeing the vote count and analyzing it is what changed my mind.

[Thestatusquo]

Gorckat (pie OtM)
SSF (gorckat peted dasq)
No lynch (kilm)

[Off the Mark]

Just to finish off the vote count:

Not voting: PJ and SSF

Interested in hearing others' opinions on the latest developments.

[Off the Mark]

So, Dasq, what's your theory about my behavior then? You gave me an FOS, so you must have one.

You think I'm scum with superstring/ssf? Look over Day2, that sure doesn't make much sense. I did the PBPA that made him look scummy as hell. I voted for him, including a lynch-1 vote.

I can't be scum with string/ssf, not after being the one to build a case against him. And I wouldn't switch my vote away from him if I were scum and he was a townie, right? So, the only remaining possibility is that I am not scum and I legitimately changed my mind. I know you are a sharp guy, so since you didn't think about these things from a true scumhunting perspective, I feel I must:

FOS: Dasquian

[Off the Mark]

And I realize that type of argument involves a lot of WIFOM, but that would be some kinda crazy master plan if I was doing all that superstring analysis and voting for him all for distancing purposes. Not likely.

[Dasquian]

I'm FOSing you because you are behaving erratically and have been all day. I have two theories:

1) You are a townie who can't sit still.
2) You are scum who can't sit still.

In favour of (1) is the fact that you drop your theories as quickly as you pick them up. For example, just regarding myself, you were pointing the finger at the start of the day, congratulating me on a wonderful analysis and my townie nature a few pages ago, and are pointing the finger again the moment I agree with your current target of suspicion that you're behaving oddly.

In favour of (2) is the theory that you are bussing a scum. After all, you're the one going to lengths to make it clear that scum couldn't possibly bus each other, which would fit that strategy. You've also always had gorckat on the backburner, and perhaps with pie hinting that he's ready to put his chips in with gorckat, you've decided it's time to be "the one to build a case against him", too. Or perhaps ssf is a townie, and you're getting off the bandwagon in the hope it'd drive to completion without your fingers on it.


I've had troubles with sizing you up since my analysis - honestly, I think it's probably (1). You're not acting like someone who's trying to avoid attention, you much more fit the profile of someone who wants

something

to happen, and who would rather comment on anything in the most recent set of posts than wait a few days for everyone else to give their opinions. Nevertheless, you're giving off a jittery impression and are saying too many weird/impulsive things for me not to keep a healthy level of suspicion, hence a FOS. I don't feel inclined to turn it into a vote at this point, but I'm not going to rule it out either.

As I say, I think the focus needs to stay on ssf, at least til he posts something of substance.

[Off the Mark]

You could be right. He's still at lynch-2, and thus needs to start talking.

[Off the Mark]

Scum can do great pro-town analysis too, ya know. Especially when townies legitimately look scummy.

[pete d]

[quote=Off the Mark]I didn't expect that you would. My hypothesis is that you and Gorck are scum together. Your pattern of how you've responded to my votes fits that theory too perfectly. [/quote]

By that I guess you mean when I legitimately pointed out your contradiction in voting gorckat earlier on (which you yourself acknowledged afterwards), then expressing concern when you switched to gorckat just now after you had seemingly built a case against ss/ssf and put him at -1. imo my sentiment has been completely warranted. If it had been any other player than gorckat, would you be criticising me now? Do you think that I would have reacted differently?

Would you mind elaborating on what you are referring to with the argument of a voting pattern / pattern in responding to your votes.

[Off the Mark]

I vote gorckat, you FOS me.
I vote superstring, you vote superstring, gorckat votes superstring.
I vote gorckat, you say you don't like it.

That's the pattern.

[Off the Mark]

I'm FOSing you because you are behaving erratically and have been all day. I have two theories:

1) You are a townie who can't sit still.
2) You are scum who can't sit still.

How about:

3) I am a townie who purposely moves his vote around in order to get reactions and figure out who is who. I reanalyze the bandwagon constantly instead of sticking with my gut feeling.

[pete d]

I vote gorckat, you FOS me.
I vote superstring, you vote superstring, gorckat votes superstring.
I vote gorckat, you say you don't like it.

1 and 3 are misrepresentative. I didn't FoS you because of the player, I foSed you because of your actions. Same with 3. Like I said, if it had been anyone other than gorckat involved, I would still have said exactly the same thing. Question: Do you think that the sentiment of my concerns was wrong?

As for 2, thats pretty selective. I mean, you revoted string afterwoods, does that make you scum with me and dasq? Or how about Nanook, superstring and pie, they all voted for MBL, they must be scumbuddies too right?

[Off the Mark]

1 and 3 are misrepresentative. I didn't FoS you because of the player, I foSed you because of your actions. Same with 3. Like I said, if it had been anyone other than gorckat involved, I would still have said exactly the same thing. Question: Do you think that the sentiment of my concerns was wrong?

Actually, yeah, I do. I had had recent suspicions of gorckat too, so it wasn't inconceivable that I'd vote for him, for the sake of starting a bandwagon. I explained that when I voted him. But you had a problem with it. You even helped change my mind. But now when I see the whole pattern, I don't trust you anymore.

As for 2, thats pretty selective. I mean, you revoted string afterwoods, does that make you scum with me and dasq? Or how about Nanook, superstring and pie, they all voted for MBL, they must be scumbuddies too right?

I'm not saying your follow-the-leader votes automatically make you scum, but looking at the whole pattern, it seems like the most solid evidence I see right now.

[Dasquian]

It'd be good to hear stuff from other people. With OTM posting after every single post we're in danger of this day becoming all about him, which I don't think is in our interests.

ssf - where are you? I've seen you online, but no posts. What gives?
Everyone else - thoughts? It's never a bad time to sum up your overall position.

[Off the Mark]

I don't mean to dominate the conversation. This is just an extremely slow-moving game. I don't think posting 2-3 times per day is unreasonable, it just looks like a lot when no one else is contributing. I'm very interested in Pie's, kilm's, ssf's, and pj's opinions on the latest.

[Dasquian]

Yeah, I know exactly where you're coming from - I've been in other games where the only conversation seems to be the one I'm pushing, and only with the people I'm directly addressing. The usual outcome is that the bastard town has been subjected to my scrutiny and attempts at building cases enough that they're all happy to lynch me

It's the main reason I have you flagged as more likely to be town than not.

[somestrangeflea]

SSF I have no idea, but we also have an SK role still out there too.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but last time I checked this was a closed setup. Why are you assuming there is an SK?

3) I am a townie who purposely moves his vote around in order to get reactions and figure out who is who. I reanalyze the bandwagon constantly instead of sticking with my gut feeling.

Since when was Wishy-Washy voting a valid tactic? I can see bandwagonning and being erratic to gain information on Day 1, but beyond that point, it begins to look scummy.

[Off the Mark]

There were 3 nightkills last night. So we either have 2 mafias or we have an SK.

[somestrangeflea]

And forgetting about stuff like that is why I'm so poor at this game...

[petroleumjelly]

School's been busier than I expected. I will note, however, that I voted gorkcat quite a while ago, so he should technically be at three votes. For safety's sake, however, I will formally

Unvote: Gorkcat

so there isn't a hammer with TSQ magically counting my presently uncounted vote before we're through with discussion.

[Dasquian]

So um... is that it, flea? Anything else to add?

[gorckat]

re: Gorc's previous games

Yes, I did, and I don't think they're in your favor.

Also, I'm finding something a bit off about how Gorc keeps asking me if I've read his games... I can't decide if it's scummy or not yet, but I'm posting this for later reference.

Home from vacation. Responding to this since it's sort of directed at me.

I kept asking because you asked OTM and myself for them (as I've said). You mentioned how his helped you form an opinion of his play. If anything (specific) I'd done in one of those games shades your opinion here, I'd be curious what and why, if only to respond to it.

More when I finish re-reading.

[gorckat]

Noting for OMGUS and possible irony if I get lynched (in part) for my vote-hopping on Day 1 :

3) I am a townie who purposely moves his vote around in order to get reactions and figure out who is who. I reanalyze the bandwagon constantly instead of sticking with my gut feeling.

I think Dasq makes good sense here (taken a bit out of context- the whole post responds to OTM, iirc, and presents a couple scenarios):

...and actually the ssf bandwagon picked up speed due to its merits as a correct bandwagon... a scum looking scummy and getting bandwagonned for it has got to happen some of the time, right?

The quacking, flapping, swimming thing that sounds, looks and moves like a duck could just very well

be

a duck.

flea hasn't done anything to make me feel like I'm in the wrong place. OTM has re-raised my eyebrow with his recent comments.