Kingmaker II-Game Over

[petroleumjelly]

EBWODP:

3.) There seems to be less people posting than there are players; would somebody mind checking that and having the relevant people

prodded

?

[Mastermind of Sin]

The funny thing is the people who are communicating i think are the most scummy.

My Top two, Funny enough, is Yos and MoS. K-scope, while is a good information lynch, doesn't seem like scum to me. You want my opinion? The link between Yos and K-scope is stupid. It is simply WIFOM that scum like Yos has brought to the game. He's using it as a tactic to disguise that he himself is scum.

If you don't think Kscope is scum, why were you so excited to see that he might be executed?

[Mastermind of Sin]

I strongly oppose an execution of any player not named "Cavane".

His posts reek of scumminess. His most recent post epitomizes this - he's hedging his bets allover the place, and throwing around suspicion like it's candy. His reaction to the PJ wishy-washiness earlier is exactly how I would expect scum to react - treating the symptom instead of the underlying problem.

Cavane should die.

I am not named "Cavane". What happened?

[Thok]

The Official "4 pages until you catch Lights Out 2" Vote Count

(Come on people, I know you can do it).

Deadline: 8 PDT, Wednesday, August 29 (

note time change

)

King Yosarian2 (1):

List of Execution: Fritzler, Toaster Strudel, ThAdmiral, mnowax2, Cavane, KaleiÐoscøpe

Cavane (2):
Fritzler (3): Toaster Strudel
KaleiÐoscøpe (0): Fritzler, Mnowax, Yosarian2, petroleumjelly
Lowell (0):
Mastermind of Sin (1):
mnowax (2):
petroleumjelly (1): mnowax2, ThAdmiral, Fritzler, Cavane
RafK (0):
ThAdmiral (1):
Thesp (0): Cavane, Mastermind of Sin
Toaster Strudel (1): Fritzler

[quote=petroleumjelly]3.) There seems to be less people posting than there are players; would somebody mind checking that and having the relevant people prodded?[/quote]

As far as I can tell, the only players who have not posted since this weekend are Fritzler, Lowell, and Toaster Strudel, the last of whom is on vacation. Prodding Fritzler and Lowell.

[RafK]

I strongly oppose an execution of any player not named "Cavane".

His posts reek of scumminess. His most recent post epitomizes this - he's hedging his bets allover the place, and throwing around suspicion like it's candy. His reaction to the PJ wishy-washiness earlier is exactly how I would expect scum to react - treating the symptom instead of the underlying problem.

Cavane should die.

I am not named "Cavane". What happened?

^^

Thesp has been incredibly single-minded about MoS, so this is worth an explanation.

[RafK]

Oh, and a warning- I have a major dentist appointment on the 29th Australian time (so the night of the 28th into the early morning of the 29th) and will probably not be around that day. It probably isn't going to matter, seeing as I'm not on the LoE and I sense Yos might even shoot before the deadline. But please don't rely on me being around much/at all for about 36 hours leading up to the deadline.

[Thesp]

I strongly oppose an execution of any player not named "Cavane".

His posts reek of scumminess. His most recent post epitomizes this - he's hedging his bets allover the place, and throwing around suspicion like it's candy. His reaction to the PJ wishy-washiness earlier is exactly how I would expect scum to react - treating the symptom instead of the underlying problem.

Cavane should die.

I am not named "Cavane". What happened?

While I still think you're scum (presumably with Cavane), the possibility that Cavane's scum seems significantly higher than for you. I also want to call attention to him, as Yosarian2 seems to list him as an afterthought rather than giving him serious consideration as a lynch for the day. It seems to have gotten some attention, and I hope it continues to. We can get you tomorrow, MoS.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Heh. Not entirely sure I buy that explanation, but it's a good recovery at the very least. I wouldn't be opposed to a Cavane execution either, but that's because I wouldn't be opposed to just about anyone's execution these days.

[Lowell]

Recieved a prod. Nothing to say, really. Anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to at least feign interest in them, though.

[Cavane]

I'm not sure how I'm "hedging my bets", as you say. I clearly stated who my top execution choice was, said I could support two others, and did not support another two. 3 out of 12 players is hardly "all over the place".

I wonder at your change of pace as well. Hardly anyone's been saluting your MoS flag all game long, so did you decide I might be a more popular target?

I can understand you jumping on me for that post a few pages back, I admitted it was buying time, yet I paid it off later. I don't understand what you mean by treating the symptom. If you mean to say that my analysis of PJ was to appease you, you're quite wrong. I pretty clearly said in the original problem post that I was going to reread PJ. Since the rest of your case on me is clearly exaggerated, I have to ask what your rationale is for pushing me so hard, so suddenly?

Lowell: Could you comment on the LoE, or at the very least state a preference?

[Yosarian2]

2.) I was also not impressed with the Russian Roulette - if you're going to execute somebody, execute them; if you are wrong and subsequently blame it on the dice function, I would not have been happy in the least. You also did not specify beforehand what number would have resulted in death. I would expect you would have made it "Chamber 1" or "Chamber 6", but seeing as you could name the chamber after you rolled that looks like a good way to give yourself a 1/3 chance excuse to execute somebody. Granted, K-Scope is on the bubble for my top four suspicions so I wouldn't mind knowing his alignment for sure, but the way you went about that did not seem optimal (and yes, I can completely see how I might look somewhat hypocritical here, but at the same time I don't have something else to take "responsibility" for my actions).

Meh. In a normal game, if you want to get a reaction out of someone, you keep increasing the pressure on them by piling on the votes until they really feel like they're in danger; often you only start getting the interesting reactions from them and from others when someone is actually in danger of dying. I had already clearly threatened to kill him, and I still wasn't getting the reactions I needed, so I had to find a way to ratchet up the pressure still another level.

[Yosarian2]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Oh, I won't deny that I've been pushing it with barely nothing. I will admit that I was purposely was trying to annoy you to let you make a slip-up to either confirm it for me that you're scum, or confirm me that you are not. I was actually hoping you would convince me of your towness by your reactions, because frankly, at that point I was still more suspicious of Fritz and Mnowax then of you and PJ, but the fact you and PJ are the more vocal ones, I went after you two, hoping to get confirmation for myself. Both failed so far at that point, so yeah, I'm stubborn on that. I'm now starting to feel slightly better of you, but I still think a scumpair of you and PJ is likely if either of you would come up scum at any point. [/quote]

That's the thing, though. There's a subtle but real difference between a town poking at someone to get reactions and/or attacking someone because they honestly think they're likely to be scum and a scum trying to make someone look bad; at the moment, your attacks on me today look more like the second. One reason is because your attacks were based on such bad logic, and when the problems in your logic are pointed out you didn't at all seem interested in re-thinking your initial wrong assumptions; even RafK, frustratingly stubborn as he's been for much of this game, has several times backed off from argumetns when they've been shown to be wrong, and he seems like he's still trying to find out people's alignments and such, which is why I tend to think he's more likely to be pro-town. You have not given me that vibe, at all.

You now claim you were just pushing me to get a reaction, but that also dosn't fit with your play; if you were pushing me to get a reaction, I would expect you to be reading over all of my posts very carefully, while you've admitted you were not doing that.



[quote]Very well. I'd still like you to make an analysis of me where you explain your in-debth thoughts about me being scum. Not only for me, but so everyone can hear what you think about it. [/quote]

The above is a big part of it. Sometimes the way one person attacks another is more revealing then what they say, and the way you've been attacking me feels like a scum trying to set up a future lynch, not like a townie trying to get a reaction or honestly trying to figure out who is scum.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Yos2's post make me very suspicious of Kscope. I hadn't really thought of it that way before, but there is a difference between RafK and Kscope's attacks on Yos2. I'd like to see what RafK has to say about this.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

The difference is that I was going for the impulsive "more saying" reactions then the standard reaction, which I think were RafK's post intentions. Your russian roulette is a result of it. I'm convinced that the standard reactions say much less then ones made under special circumstances.

You now claim you were just pushing me to get a reaction, but that also dosn't fit with your play; if you were pushing me to get a reaction, I would expect you to be reading over all of my posts very carefully, while you've admitted you were not doing that.

I've admitted that I skip stuff when I'm to eager to reply to something, and then forget to read the rest of it. I'm chaotic that way . Doesn't change the fact that things posted cannot be reviewed, which I did.

With that being said, I think the focus is really to much one sided now. I've got the reactions I wanted now, so unless you are seriously considering to execute me, I suggest some input from other players now concerning the assassins. The vote count still has some empty holes of suspicions to be filled.

[Thesp]

Heh. Not entirely sure I buy that explanation, but it's a good recovery at the very least.

This feels very contrived.

Recieved a prod. Nothing to say, really. Anyone has any questions, I'll be happy to at least feign interest in them, though.

What do you think about Cavane?

I can understand you jumping on me for that post a few pages back, I admitted it was buying time, yet I paid it off later. I don't understand what you mean by treating the symptom. If you mean to say that my analysis of PJ was to appease you, you're quite wrong. I pretty clearly said in the original problem post that I was going to reread PJ. Since the rest of your case on me is clearly exaggerated, I have to ask what your rationale is for pushing me so hard, so suddenly?

It wasn't terribly clear that a re-read of PJ was the inevitable result of your post - it seemed like an out, and an excuse to throw suspicion on PJ. When called on it, you took a definite stand on PJ, so as to avoid the wishy-washy tag. In your next post I'm calling you on...

mnowax

is

probably

scum. However, MoS is correct that

Kscope

's death would bring in more information.

I could get behind either.

If my count and my guess are correct, we're starting to run short on mis-executions, however. In that light,

I think

I would prefer Kscope. I don't think he's as scummy as mnowax,

but

we do need some info.

Fritz

I prefer to wait on.

He may be scum, or may not be. We really aren't going to get any tells out of him at this rate.

TS

is pretty scumy to me. I put him in basically the same category as mnowax.

Probably scum, but we won't get much info from his death.

ThAdmiral

has been more lurky than scummy, if you ask me.

I could see him going either way, just like Fritz.

There are better choices, I think.

Now for you,

King

. I really really don't like this Russian Roulette business.

Even though I do support a Kscope kill, the way you're so cavalier about it disturbs me.

I can imagine him coming up town and you blaming it on the random number generator and saying 'I warned him! Not my fault!'. Please, especially at this stage of the game, be less careless about your execution.

I'v bolded all the people you called out in this post, and italicized most of the weasel-wording you've used. I feel like you've got some scum buddies on this list, so you could later say, "I was suspicious of them!", and town on there, so you can jump on those suspicions as needed (and say, "I thought he was suspicious all along, let's lynch them!"). It reeks to the core of scum. I also note in your last post, you threw in a throwaway line of suspicion at me. ("I wonder at your change of pace as well. Hardly anyone's been saluting your MoS flag all game long, so did you decide I might be a more popular target?") I'm really, really confident of a Cavane lynch now, and will be severely disappointed if he comes away alive after today.

(One more thing - his note about "If my count and my guess are correct, we're starting to run short on mis-executions"

reeks

of scum who actually knows how many mis-lynches are left.)

[Cavane]

It wasn't terribly clear that a re-read of PJ was the inevitable result of your post - it seemed like an out, and an excuse to throw suspicion on PJ.

I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear to you. As I stated earlier, I wasn't completely sure of what my intentions for PJ were at that point. In any case, others seemed to get the message that I was going to be looking closer at PJ after that. And if I was really looking for an excuse to throw suspicion on him, why would I have presented an analysis that concluded townie?

I also note in your last post, you threw in a throwaway line of suspicion at me. ("I wonder at your change of pace as well. Hardly anyone's been saluting your MoS flag all game long, so did you decide I might be a more popular target?")

How is that a line of suspicion? I'm simply asking you a question, because I'm very puzzled why you're after me so hard based on that fact that I don't claim to know people's alignments. If I say someone is probably scum, I say it because that's what I find likely. I'm not going to out-and-out state that someone is scum unless I have hard evidence to that fact.

(One more thing - his note about "If my count and my guess are correct, we're starting to run short on mis-executions" reeks of scum who actually knows how many mis-lynches are left.)

Oh please. I really feel like you're reaching now. It doesn't take any special knowledge to reach that conclusion. This setup is quite simple, and assuming 20%-25% scum, that leaves us only two or three misses. Not rocket science.

[mnowax]

The funny thing is the people who are communicating i think are the most scummy.

My Top two, Funny enough, is Yos and MoS. K-scope, while is a good information lynch, doesn't seem like scum to me. You want my opinion? The link between Yos and K-scope is stupid. It is simply WIFOM that scum like Yos has brought to the game. He's using it as a tactic to disguise that he himself is scum.

If you don't think Kscope is scum, why were you so excited to see that he might be executed?

I was only happy cause it isn't me. Read my crappy posts man!

[mnowax]

I see what you mean about Cavane, Thesp. I am wondering how many scum are left, and the way he says that "our mis-executions are running short" is quite a problem. As Rosso would say, " I'd Hammah."

Vote: Cavane

[Fritzler]

" I'd Hammah."

QFT

[Mastermind of Sin]

The funny thing is the people who are communicating i think are the most scummy.

My Top two, Funny enough, is Yos and MoS. K-scope, while is a good information lynch, doesn't seem like scum to me. You want my opinion? The link between Yos and K-scope is stupid. It is simply WIFOM that scum like Yos has brought to the game. He's using it as a tactic to disguise that he himself is scum.

If you don't think Kscope is scum, why were you so excited to see that he might be executed?

I was only happy cause it isn't me. Read my crappy posts man!

Try reading *my* posts. You still haven't answered the questions I posed to you about this topic. As a protown, player, you should not be worrying about your own survival unless there is actually a benefit to the town in keeping you alive. Since there are not any roles to be lost in this game, I *still* want you to explain why it is more important to keep you alive rather than Kscope. Do you believe that you have contributed more to the game discussion than he has?

[Yosarian2]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]
I've got the reactions I wanted now, so unless you are seriously considering to execute me, I suggest some input from other players now concerning the assassins. [/quote]

Well, I certanly am seriously considering executing you; wasn't that fairly obveous?

Could you explain why you're less suspicious of me now? I'm asking, because I'm kind of wondering if it's just you backing off now to protect yourself. Also, I find it a little odd that you spend so much time asking me for the reasons behind my list of suspicion, and then when I point you to a post where I explained it, you don't actually comment on it at all.

[KaleiÐoscøpe]

Well, asking confirmation is never wrong .

FYI: I'm not backing off, I simply think rechewing everything isn't necesarry. I think I know where you stand. You know where I stand.

For commenting on your LoE: You know who I'd like to see dead. Two of them are on your LoE.

[mnowax]

The funny thing is the people who are communicating i think are the most scummy.

My Top two, Funny enough, is Yos and MoS. K-scope, while is a good information lynch, doesn't seem like scum to me. You want my opinion? The link between Yos and K-scope is stupid. It is simply WIFOM that scum like Yos has brought to the game. He's using it as a tactic to disguise that he himself is scum.

If you don't think Kscope is scum, why were you so excited to see that he might be executed?

I was only happy cause it isn't me. Read my crappy posts man!

Try reading *my* posts. You still haven't answered the questions I posed to you about this topic. As a protown, player, you should not be worrying about your own survival unless there is actually a benefit to the town in keeping you alive. Since there are not any roles to be lost in this game, I *still* want you to explain why it is more important to keep you alive rather than Kscope. Do you believe that you have contributed more to the game discussion than he has?

I am thinking of my survival due to the people i have replaced have made me look So scummy, that i think it is a minor miracle that i haven't died yet. I think that Yos is scum, due to the fact ( and i know i am going to getexecuted for this one) that i am an easy execution for any pro town player acting as king.

No i dont believe that i have contributed as much as k-scope, but it doesn't mean he's any less scum or i am more scum becasue of it.

[Mastermind of Sin]

My point is, if you don't feel that Kscope is likely to be scum, you shouldn't prefer his execution to your own. Sure, he *might* be scum, but so could anyone else. Are you saying that you would prefer that anyone else in the game be executed instead of yourself?

[Yosarian2]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]FYI: I'm not backing off, I simply think rechewing everything isn't necesarry. I think I know where you stand. You know where I stand. [/quote]

Oh, you're not backing off? That's not what it sounds like to me.

[quote="KaleiDoscope"]
Oh, I won't deny that I've been pushing it with barely nothing. I will admit that I was purposely was trying to annoy you to let you make a slip-up to either confirm it for me that you're scum, or confirm me that you are not. I was actually hoping you would convince me of your towness by your reactions, because frankly, at that point I was still more suspicious of Fritz and Mnowax then of you and PJ, but the fact you and PJ are the more vocal ones, I went after you two, hoping to get confirmation for myself. Both failed so far at that point, so yeah, I'm stubborn on that. I'm now starting to feel slightly better of you, but I still think a scumpair of you and PJ is likely if either of you would come up scum at any point. [/quote]

You said you were starting to feel "slightly better" of me, and then stopped attacking me, so it does feel like you've backed off. Now, there's nothing wrong with that, pro-town people should always be willing to change their minds, but the timing of it makes me feel like you might be trying to back off for the moment just to save your own skin. So, could you elaborate at all when and why you started to feel better about me?