STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[farside22]

I'll go with sonic tonight.
Also I'm waiting for mastin to chime in

[Sonic X]

Also, farside, relax. don't get frustrated. I think I'm just not communicating it very well. :/ sonic, what I'm talking about has nothing to do with YOU except you delivered the knowledge to myself and farside, and it should be USED on you. Not the motivate.

-Cerb

Ohh I totally didn't get it the first time. Ok hold on

[Reasonably Rational]

okay so the thread lock threw me off

what are we waiting on exactly? just alliances and stuff?

Alliances, sonic and fuzzy confirming they understood my suggestion. I think fuzzy should ally us, and not motivate sonic. CoolDog and mastin should appear first too.

-Cerb

Sonic: make it expicot and unquestionable.

[NicCage]

I'm 98% sure farside is town for anyone who is unsure

[mastin2]

I'd like to see mastin's view on everything said, please.

Still sorting, but currently concluding Sonic's town, TW's not.

Key word being 'currently'. But the thing there which'd be likely to change would be TW, not Sonic.

[farside22]

Based on what I know I'm back to saying hermit is scum and cooldog.

[Sonic X]

Hi all, RR wants me to do this fullclaim:

My flavor is the Light Prism. My race is Other. I have two unique abilities, a gladiate and I can passively and reflexively copy active abilities used on me (this ability is henceforth referred to as "copier").

My gladiate is one shot. It only works during the Exposition Phase. Making a post that bolds the phrase "By the 7 chaos emeralds" along with clear intent to gladiate a certain target, may activate my gladiate.

My copier does not work for all abilities. Some abilities cannot be copied. Varsoon did not mention in my role PM which actions exactly cannot be copied.

Currently two abilities have been traced and successfully copied. These are a pizza-giving 1-Shot Fruit Vendor from TheFuzzyLogic99, and a 1-Shot Day Messenger from farside22.

At least one ability has been used on me without triggering my copier. This is known to be Trench Warfare's tracker invention, which I was unable to successfully copy.

----

I am town. Therefore I know that Reasonably Rational's reasoning for me being scum (based on his assertion that there is one scum in [mastin2, Xtoxm, Sonic X], along with the assertion that the set [mastin2, Xtoxm] cannot contain scum) is wrong.

I have used Farside22's Messaging ability today to write a long message (long being defined as having more than 600 words) to farside22. This message was written and delivered to Varsoon before Reasonably Rational posted his case in the Main Game Thread.

In the message, I also told farside22 to call Reasonably Rational a moron. I do not know if she has delivered this piece of information.

I think that Reasonably Rational calling farside22 "scummy" is pretty dumb.

[farside22]

Hahahaha.
I called him a brick wall.

But something he said makes sense enough for me to call hermit scum.

Vote: hermit

[Sonic X]

I mean if you want to show me a large game with no scum day 1 I'll consider not voting xtoxm.

There is a game like that. It was 2014 Game of the Year, Organic Chemistry. Mastina can tell you all about her happy fun about being lynched as a Doc Day 1 with an all town wagon. A couple of people in this game were there too.

[Reasonably Rational]

TW is scum. Displaying certain knowledge that there is no possible town way to have is a scum slip. We asked the game and people agreed that this was the case. We have shown that TW had no way to know, and TW's "defense" is that Titus just magically guessed the ability, with such certainty that she spoke of it as if it were certain knowledge.

We view Sonic as scum based upon the logical idea that someone had to tell TW that info. TW's flip could easily exonerate Sonic.

Farside is "scummy", because Farside has misrepresented us. What we said is that a strongman implies a doctor. Nobody has claimed doctor or any other protective ability which would necessitate a strongman. We are down to just Cooldog left to claim, I believe, so we posited that it's very possible he has been lurking through the game and okay with being viewed scummy by everyone while he's busy doing work as a doctor.

Cooldog could very well be scum. All we said was that we're missing a doctor, and his behavior makes him a possible candidate for that. It's very weak evidence, but that's how you figure things out in the game. You take what you know, figure out what that implies, and make logical hypothesis about things. Then, if you are being intellectually honest, you try to disprove your own hypothesis.


For example: I spent the better part of 3 real time days trying to disprove our logic about Mastin and Xtoxm being town and our case against TW.

-------------------------------------------------

People need to separate what's going on with our case. We're very confident that TW is scum, and TW's defense is very weak, while the reaction of one of the TW heads doesn't line up with the claimed defense. There are other reasons to view TW as scum. One of them is that the Titus head claimed to want to ally with us night one because she had a hard time reading both of us and wanted to try and figure us out. In the night one alliance she just immediately treated us as if we were conftown to her. There was no kind of questioning or evaluation at all from TW. It's another piece of circumstantial evidence against TW. TW might say they just figured out we were town by things we said or did on day one; however, Titus in particular has very badly misread both of us when we were town before. Something in Mastin's recently revised bussing article caught my attention when thinking about this: When someone is scum, they overestimate their skill at being town and notice things they wouldn't as town because they already know them.


The case for Sonic being scum with Titus is based upon one fragile link: someone had to tell Titus his ability and a very limited pool of people knew, Sonic being the overwhelmingly most likely to be the source. TW's flip could very well show that they lied about things and could basically clear Sonic. Let's say that TW doesn't have a rolecop at all, but instead some other scum team person can role cop every night (instead of charges with re-charge as they claimed). TW could have fed a fake claim role of scum partner to us, or it could simply be that TW doesn't role cop at all and got "role cop" info from a team mate, and that team mate role copped Sonic. There's a whole load of possibilities that could clear sonic.


What I find disturbing is that Titus did nothing at all that explains her slip, and farside is busy just giving Titus a pass, despite the fact that farside thought TW was scummy before we put the case out there. Now all of a sudden, Titus can refer to VCA analysis that has never been posted in the thread and conveniently set up two 1v1s that would endgame town if she's scum (including a 1v1 of a pair who are logically town, unless this is multiball), and even try to start a wagon on Cooldog ... and Farside is so swayed by it that suddenly Titus is town and should be sheeped?

Sorry Farside, but that's so wishy washy it is literally absurd. Titus hasn't addressed the case against her slot with anything remotely believable. She hasn't even posted the supposed VCA that she was referring to when she tried to just ignore the case on her and wriggle out of this jam. You are displaying extreme gullibility and cognitive dissonance right now.

Love,
Drixx

I'll be headed out for the day and Cerb won't be back for awhile ... but if you all let Titus squirm her way out of this with that ridiculous "I guessed the role because he asked for people to target him" excuse, given that TSO was so panicked he got her to text while driving to address the case, when she claims the answer was in their hydra PT ... there aren't words for how foolish that would be. If Sonic is town and telling the truth, he should Gladiate Titus, unless he wants to white knight her instead ... but good luck with that. I didn't want Titus to be scum and combed the thread trying to find ways to dismiss the list of scummy things, along with the display of certain knowledge she shouldn't have had.

[Reasonably Rational]

Hahahaha.
I called him a brick wall.

We simplified the logical chain as much as possible. Unless you can counter it, why should we change our minds? It's not stubborn on our part. You haven't given any reason that our logic is incorrect. Calling us names doesn't change that fact.

There's one major edge case where the logic breaks and that's if one of them is a 3rd party or if this is multi-ball and the one of them that would be scum in that case is on the team that doesn't have strongman and alliance blocking power. We have so far seen on real evidence of multiball, so while it's possible one of them is 3rd party ... it's nearly impossible that either of them are scum.

Unless Varsoon has come up with a neutral that wouldn't be a policy lynch like all of the neutral roles I've seen before, if one of them were to be outed as a 3rd party, we would want to lynch them.

Unfortunately, we're pretty sure our cop was killed and janitored on night one, for flavor reasons.

@Farside - Please explain why our logic is wrong or else stop calling us names

and deciding anything we say is wrong because we are sticking to our process and logic, which to this point nobody has even tried to contradict. Calling us a brick wall (and other things you said in the PT with us) is completely uncalled for when you cannot put up any argument against our logic. Why would we change our mind because you read Xtoxm as scum, but logic clears him?

I mean ... by your standard, we should consider Vezok scum. Vezok lurked just as much as Xtoxm has. Vezok's few posts were generally sarcastic and unhelpful. Vezok intentionally got his mod confirmed mason partner killed on day one. Vezok intentionally ended at least one day phase when several people asked people to hold so things could get accomplished before PTs got locked. Vezok was 100% negative utility to the town, and yet he was town. Sometimes you can look like scum and help the scum, and still be town. There's evidence of that in this very game.

[Sonic X]

Sometimes you can look like scum and help the scum, and still be town. There's evidence of that in this very game.

This is a fact. I agree completely. Ricastle is one of them. The person who made the above statement too.

[Sonic X]

RR. Your "logical deduction" that "mastina and xtoxm" cannot be scum is because there is a strongman that would kill you or something?

Do you think it is more or less likely that Varsoon would create a scum counter to my role?

[Sonic X]

Scum , by rights, should not be able to roleblock me, because if they do that, I can use that against them in all future nights. By rights.


If there is a doc, we can create a doc circle and both be bulletproof. Unless, of course, strongman (psst, another reason why I'm town)


Basically it is in scum's best interests not to interfere with me through night actions, and conversely the more town target me the more I am able to contribute back to society.

[Sonic X]

for flavor reasons.

Who, in your opinion, would be responsible for the janitor?

[Sonic X]

nobody has even tried to contradict

this is a lie

[Reasonably Rational]

Sometimes you can look like scum and help the scum, and still be town. There's evidence of that in this very game.

This is a fact. I agree completely. Ricastle is one of them. The person who made the above statement too.

Stop being an asshole. We had reason to believe that Fro99er's claim could be legit, based upon info we had that wasn't in the main thread at the time. Turns out that Fro99er's claim was a

fake claim

, presumably given by Varsoon, so it makes sense that his claim lined up with the claim of someone likely to be town. The post I was personally making while Fro99er self-locked wasn't defending him; I said that we shouldn't rush to judgment. Someone visiting someone else at night doesn't automatically make them scum. It turns out he was scum, but it is good practice to let someone explain themselves before you kill them.

And as far as Maxwell goes, I told him to claim or die at the start of the day phase, which has been confirmed by others in the PT, so you probably can't say I tried to stop him being killed.

If you could see farther than your trench and faux indignation that we rate you the most likely way that Titus got the information she shouldn't have had, maybe we could kill scum, and see the flip. Titus got the info somewhere. We think you're the most likely source. Her flip will hopefully clarify that and, if you're being honest and town, should help vindicate you.

You also cannot argue that it's strange that everyone else has to give a very specific quote from the Steven Universe show to trigger abilities, but you alone claim to have gotten to make up your own flavor, related to a video game you like. That's just strange.

RR. Your "logical deduction" that "mastina and xtoxm" cannot be scum is because there is a strongman that would kill you or something?

Do you think it is more or less likely that Varsoon would create a scum counter to my role?

Assuming you actually are a Gladiator (which you should easily be able to prove by Gladiating Titus), there was a counter to your role, wasn't there? All of your town cred rests on you having attempted and expended your gladiate charge against Fro99er. Are you saying that isn't the case?

Also, the more you stall the gladiate and try to let a wagon form somewhere other than Titus, the more it looks like you're trying to protect that slot.

As for your question about the logic concerning Mastin and Xtoxm, you should actually go read the logical progression. It would be a broken game that the approval group would reject if either Xtoxm or Mastin are on the scum team that contained Fro99er and Maxwell. There's a couple of edge cases. One of them could be a 3rd party. There could be a 2nd scum team. We rate those as unlikely, but they are within the set of what is possible and thus need to be re-evaluated from time to time.


Love,
Drixx

[farside22]

I'm not fucking town reading tw.
I'm narrowing things down.
But please let me do fuck all in this game and call me town.

That is to rr.

I'm going fucking lurk the rest of this game because apparently that fucking okay to do as town.

[Reasonably Rational]

nobody has even tried to contradict

this is a lie

Show me the post where someone attempted to contradict our logic progression for why Mastin and Xtoxm can't be scum (I already mentioned the edge cases myself). Also ... you do realize it's super scummy to cherry pick someone's post to try and mislead right? If you can't even quote an entire sentence in context, and you're just cherry picking to try and score low blow, you just make yourself look petty and scummy.

If you want to be a petty asshole and make yourself look scummy ... that's your decision.

[Sonic X]

im waiting for fuzzy to log on first dude. >_>

[Sonic X]

nobody has even tried to contradict

this is a lie

Show me the post where someone attempted to contradict our logic progression for why Mastin and Xtoxm can't be scum (I already mentioned the edge cases myself). Also ... you do realize it's super scummy to cherry pick someone's post to try and mislead right? If you can't even quote an entire sentence in context, and you're just cherry picking to try and score low blow, you just make yourself look petty and scummy.

If you want to be a petty asshole and make yourself look scummy ... that's your decision.

you called farside scummy, so i don't actually know what that word means from you anymore.

i think most of the players who are in a PT with you atm agree that you are the asshole here.

[farside22]

Here rr can have my sheep vote too because apparently having a fucking different view and trying to see the game as a whole is scummy too.

Vote: tw

No one can talk anymore. Just sheep rr.

[Sonic X]

nobody has even tried to contradict

this is a lie

Show me the post where someone attempted to contradict our logic progression for why Mastin and Xtoxm can't be scum (I already mentioned the edge cases myself). Also ... you do realize it's super scummy to cherry pick someone's post to try and mislead right? If you can't even quote an entire sentence in context, and you're just cherry picking to try and score low blow, you just make yourself look petty and scummy.

i think it has been pretty obvious that the only one giving a shit about your cases as me


generally because you're calling me scum

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm not fucking town reading tw.
I'm narrowing things down.
But please let me do fuck all in this game and call me town.

That is to rr.

I'm going fucking lurk the rest of this game because apparently that fucking okay to do as town.

Why do you insist on misrepresenting us? Saying that we have no dead doctor or doctor claim and pointing out that Cooldog's play and lack of claim

could be

him being the doctor is

not the same thing

as saying we think he actually is town. We think he needs to be pressed ... but he needs to actually be around to press him.

When you start accepting Titus' claims about what VCA says, when she hasn't even posted the VCA, then it looks like you trust Titus, which implies you are town reading Titus. If you are scum reading someone, you view everything they say as suspect. Titus has every reason to try and set up a situation where she squirms out of getting lynched today and claim that if we just follow the (not posted or explained) VCA she claims to have done, we'll prevail.

What will really happen if we follow that list of 1v1 lynches she proposed is her scum team will endgame us.

[Sonic X]

don't hammer before fuzzy uses his thing. oi.

the exercise might be one in futility