STEVEN UNIVERSE MAFIA - GAME OVER

[Reasonably Rational]

Now, what's most interesting about all this, Sonic, is that you're making the assumption that Drixx and I are just posting without thinking things through. We knew about this from shortly after that post was made by TW, and we held off on saying anything about it for days just to make sure we weren't confbiasing or missing something.

We are aware of the implications youscum has in regards to your place in the fro99er lynch(but not in the maxwell lynch, you don't get to claim anything for that one, that's all mastin, and she wanted him dead in out pt on D3). We are aware of the fact that one can posit any sort of circumstances to create a chance for any set of circumstances to come about. The only CERTAIN guilty/innocent is one that's posted in thread by the mod like ours was. Any sort of targeted ability, or knowledge, etc, can be potentially gained through a variety of possible things. However...since nothing is certain in the face of the totality of potential options, one has to rely upon determining which options are LIKELY, not which options are possible.

It is UNLIKELY that something exists gave your role information to TW while leaving you unaware of it. Why? Because it is UNLIKELY that TW's team has more than one rolecop. As I said at the end of the post though, right after the part where I said you were likely scum...IF TW's rolecop functions in a fashion differently than the way they've said it does, or it doesn't exist, etc, then you're possibly cleared. I said that already. The majority of possible ways for them to learn your role that are reasonable things to suspect, require that TW's rolecop not function the way they said it does.

-Cerb

pedit: Sonic, Sonic, Sonic. You don't know me. I couldn't possibly care less what everyone else thinks of my reads. We can disagree, others can present their opinions to me, but I don't hold anyone here in high enough esteem to be given pause when they disagree with a case founded on a logical progression.

Anyways, we should stop crapping all over the thread right now. TW goes, and then we can determine the effect their flip has on the likelihood of you being their partner.

peditx2!!: Again, you don't know me. I...don't act on gut reads. You may have noticed that I barely ever place my vote? That's because the reason to believe someone is scum has to be extremely strong for me to vote for them. Even if I did act on gut reads...I'm gut townreading you, but it seems logically unlikely for that to be the case, except in x situations which will be determined by TW's flip.

On a different matter: The issue with your activation phrase isn't important at all. It's something we noticed and brought up to get you involved in the conversation, same as the reason why we asked TW about their VCA at the start of the day.

Finally, I'll keep this very simple with regards to people always scum reading you because they don't know you: It doesn't matter. Our primary reason to be suspicious of you is based on circumstances surrounding you, NOT your play. Regardless of what you wrote in the thread at any point, the knowledge about you had a limited number of sources, and those sources include you...and the others are town. That is why we're suspicious of you, not what you've said or done this game. Anyways, as I said a bit ago...let's stop crapping all over the thread. You believe others are scum. Who and why?

-Cerb(ninja'd repeatedly by Drixx and Sonic, but I'm not going to just not post this.)

pedit again: Stop treating us like imbeciles by making the most facile of points.

[Sonic X]

Firstly, it's still questionable why

every other example

of a triggered ability requires a specific phrase taken from the television show, but you, and you alone, get to make up your own flavor and do it differently. That doesn't make sense, but that alone isn't evidence of anything, since it's possible Varsoon might make a different mechanic for some reason known only to him. If so, it's problematic and bad game design, but whatever.

and we all couldn't see how that led to me being scum. that shows that your logic breaks down. the fact that you tried to argue this in the first place...

There was nothing at all ambiguous about what Titus said. She clearly referred to you as "Confirmed town" and she clearly said that you would gain the refiller ability, and that you would also have your gladiate refilled. I can tell you guys must have daychat because before you just ignored this and now you're trying to say it's ambiguous when it's not.

So let me get this straight

Maxwell lynch today
Fuzzy + Sonic neighorize tonight
Sonic gladiates any scum suspect but Fuzzy after we decide who he gladiates tomorrow
Fuzzy refills Sonic, and gives him

refilled ability

?

Refilled ability, not

refiller

ability. Oh gosh. There is a big difference between "refiller ability" and a "refilled ability". one is a scumslip, one is a gerund noun. I feel like I'm talking to a wall. I saw no problem with this because

Fuzzy refills Sonic and gives him back his refilled ability

what the LITERAL FUCK. THAT IS A DEPENDENT CLAUSE OF TIME, NOT OF ADDITION!


The next thing is about I stated my stance on ambiguous scumslips

before you written your case.

It's not like I came up and said "surprise! that's ambiguous! i think TW is town!". No. I am poking the hole in your case (which conveniently calls me scum, so of course I'd pay attention to it), according to my policy/law laid out earlier before

it happened.

.

You cannot explain how Titus knew your role. Give a reasonable explanation for how Titus knew your role and thus knew having farside visit you would give you farside's ability as well as let farside refill your gladiate. A reasonable explanation is one that does not rely upon some wildly unlikely heretofore unknown role or mechanic to be the deus ex machina.

Of course I cannot explain how Titus knew my role! I am NOT TITUS!!!

I CANNOT EXPLAIN WHAT I DON'T KNOW OR I DON'T UNDERSTAND. KAPEESH? KAPEESH.

ufhghhhhhhhhhhh

Only three people could have told her.

this is still wrong, because its based on assumptions.

[Sonic X]

I'm gut townreading you, but it seems logically unlikely for that to be the case, except in x situations which will be determined by TW's flip.

this is clearly a lie.

people always gut scumread me and therefore come up with "logical walls" to make them not sound like idiots after i flip town

[Reasonably Rational]

I'm gut townreading you, but it seems logically unlikely for that to be the case, except in x situations which will be determined by TW's flip.

this is clearly a lie.

people always gut scumread me and therefore come up with "logical walls" to make them not sound like idiots after i flip town

You again overestimate how much I care what anyone here thinks of me after I'm proven wrong.

-Cerb

[Sonic X]

You believe others are scum. Who and why?

this confirms that you haven't read farside's message.

i sent a long list of my reads and important information for farside to know and to share with you. all my reasoning is in that piece posted 24 hours ago... before your "case"

[Reasonably Rational]

Well, or right. The opinions of strangers on a forum is pretty meaningless to me.

Oh, and hey, look Drixx, Sonic is making the semantics argument that we expected TW to make for them, even though it's clearly terribly redundant for them to be referring to that twice, AND considering TW ALREADY ADMITTED to knowing what his power is. Like, Sonic, you do realize TW said they knew your power, and essentially admitted those posts showing they knew your power were correct, they were only focusing on obfuscating the SOURCE of their information, right?

-Cerb

pedit: farside didn't share all of that with me. Only a bit about fuzzy's abilities and your intended gladiate target.

[Trench Warfare]

i think its better to claim this early:

If you are townreading me, please use a night action on me. Any kind (except vig kills, duh): Cop, Doc, Jailkeep, Track, Watch -- any kind. If you're not townreading me, then fine. Thanks.

This is a large crumb as to Sonic's role. This suggests he interacts somehow with anyone who visits him. That's not a surprise. He doesn't want vig kills to visit him which eliminates lightning rod. So the next question is what role does this?

It has to be an obscurer role. He wouldn't call for all PR roles to visit him if he was something like a reflexive jailkeepers. That would wind up blocking the cop.

I mentioned that I had deduced Sonic's role way back in 410 and told you why. Look at the motivation.

Sonic had to be some sort of replicator. Enhancer was a remote long shot, but that wouldn't make sense as it would require the mod to determine what enhancing is.

I have seen replicators on DarkLordPotter.net in Masquerade Ball, a player had the exact same ability. The fact you made so much about me knowing Sonic's role when you could have asked me in PT is such utter shit.

@Mastina,Abilities are things players can do. You and Xtoxm have the same abilities. Voteless is a modifier.

@All, Now I am going to check on any missed questions after I get to the game I am modding. Use the post tags rather than quote if there's an urgent priority.

[Sonic X]

Oh, and hey, look Drixx, Sonic is making the semantics argument that we expected TW to make for them, even though it's clearly terribly redundant for them to be referring to that twice, AND considering TW ALREADY ADMITTED to knowing what his power is. Like, Sonic, you do realize TW said they knew your power, and essentially admitted those posts showing they knew your power were correct, they were only focusing on obfuscating the SOURCE of their information, right?

well, then obviously i am town then.

[Sonic X]

pedit: farside didn't share all of that with me. Only a bit about fuzzy's abilities and your intended gladiate target.

THAT MAKES ALL THE DIFFERENCE.

[Reasonably Rational]

i think its better to claim this early:

If you are townreading me, please use a night action on me. Any kind (except vig kills, duh): Cop, Doc, Jailkeep, Track, Watch -- any kind. If you're not townreading me, then fine. Thanks.

This is a large crumb as to Sonic's role. This suggests he interacts somehow with anyone who visits him. That's not a surprise. He doesn't want vig kills to visit him which eliminates lightning rod. So the next question is what role does this?

It has to be an obscurer role. He wouldn't call for all PR roles to visit him if he was something like a reflexive jailkeepers. That would wind up blocking the cop.

I mentioned that I had deduced Sonic's role way back in 410 and told you why. Look at the motivation.

Sonic had to be some sort of replicator. Enhancer was a remote long shot, but that wouldn't make sense as it would require the mod to determine what enhancing is.

I have seen replicators on DarkLordPotter.net in Masquerade Ball, a player had the exact same ability. The fact you made so much about me knowing Sonic's role when you could have asked me in PT is such utter shit.

@Mastina,Abilities are things players can do. You and Xtoxm have the same abilities. Voteless is a modifier.

@All, Now I am going to check on any missed questions after I get to the game I am modding. Use the post tags rather than quote if there's an urgent priority.

Here's the problem with this TW: It is clearly implicit in the noted quotes that you EXPECTED us to know about his refiller ability, in spite of NEVER IN OUR TWO PT'S actually telling us that you had said belief about his power. Your post 410 doesn't change that. Do you know what that implies, when combined with your knowledge that we had an alliance with Mastin? That you made the logical deduction that Mastin(who you knew was town, because you're not) had shared with us the knowledge Sonic had given her(which you knew because Sonic is your partner and had told you so) because she obviously townread us.

That, btw, is another reason for Sonic to be scum, BUT it's super circumstantial and I don't like it. It is, however, the only explanation for TW's knowledge of what was likely to be in our PT with Mastin though, that doesn't mean Mastin/Xtoxm scum

-Cerb

[farside22]

Can we please not explode this game is all I'm asking.
I'd like to see mastin's view on everything said, please.

[St Constantine the Hermit]

What is this shit?! Stop it!

[Trench Warfare]

Well yeah I didn't repeat every post in the main thread in the pt. Also since you never enquired about 410 further, I figured we were on the same wavelength. I am far from psychic. Also, D2 I had zero intention on telling you Sonic's cloning ability. If I did, he would be dead I thought because I was convinced Hermit was scum. I may play with fire but I am no idiot. I claimed because I thought Sonic could replicate me. Then again having a near never ending Doctor would be OP.

After I targeted Sonic, he didn't hint at being able to duplicate my power. I found that odd but the mod is likely doing a technical reading. I didn't use an ability on Sonic, I merely gave him one.

[farside22]

Well yeah I didn't repeat every post in the main thread in the pt. Also since you never enquired about 410 further, I figured we were on the same wavelength. I am far from psychic. Also, D2 I had zero intention on telling you Sonic's cloning ability. If I did, he would be dead I thought because I was convinced Hermit was scum. I may play with fire but I am no idiot. I claimed because I thought Sonic could replicate me. Then again having a near never ending Doctor would be OP.

After I targeted Sonic, he didn't hint at being able to duplicate my power. I found that odd but the mod is likely doing a technical reading. I didn't use an ability on Sonic, I merely gave him one.

Umm sonic did you get targetted by tw?

[farside22]

Also as a role cop wouldn't you be told what is role is?

[Trench Warfare]

I didn't target Sonic with my rolecop. I didn't need to. My rolecop is once per season finale.

I targeted Sonic with an invention. That's why I said I gave Sonic an ability rather than used an ability on him.

[Trench Warfare]

I realized that's unclear. I mean I can use it once and it refills on the season finale. :S

[farside22]

I didn't target Sonic with my rolecop. I didn't need to. My rolecop is once per season finale.

I targeted Sonic with an invention. That's why I said I gave Sonic an ability rather than used an ability on him.

Ah

[TheFuzzylogic99]

TW what do you think of Sonic? Is he town. If so who should be lynched today?

[Trench Warfare]

Sonic's still town. He's cleared by VCA.

The absolute pool for lynching for me is anyone but Farside, Sonic, me or RR.

Only one of you/Hermit is scum.
Only one of Mastina/Xtoxm is scum.

Given Xtoxm claimed that one of he and Mastina had a night ability, unless I misread something, then he should be lynched. If I have misunderstood something, I'd prefer Hermit as you would be forced to refill Sonic which means town has another gladiate and scum can't push mislynches.. I strongly favor resolving the 1 v 1s that have emerged in my VCA.

Cooldog is more of a consensus lynch.

[farside22]

"You want to get a fresh pizza right out of the oven, but you don't want to seem too desperate, right? Well, there's no need to be ashamed. Just walk right in and ask. That's what I always do."

-Steven,

Lars and the Cool Kids

VOTECOUNT 1.27 - LYNCH

Beer (

LYNCH

):

Replace in, NicCage, Fluminator, Marquis, vezokpiraka, vezokpiraka, Skybird, Sonic X, Bins, Grapes

fro99er (4):

Beer, Trench Warfare, Ricastle, Cheetory6

Replace in (3):

TunnelWarriors, MaxwellPuckett, CooLDoG

Bins (1):

Thefuzzylogic99

SonicX (1):

fro99er

Not Voting (2):

Mastin2, Reasonably Rational

With 20 Alive, it took 11 to Lynch.
Flavor incoming soon~<3

Just keeping the day 1 lynch as a reminder

[grapes]

Why do scum kill a watcher/double-voter over a cop?

Well one reason could be that they did it to kill two near confirmed townies who will never get lynched instead of a slot which has had some suspicion on it. Also I still had a watch to use, while TW is out of shots.

...I didn't realize they claimed xshot. Even then at least if I'm scum I kill it anyway because taking xshot claims at face value is naive and can bite you in the ass. It's almost a cliche thing to do these days because cops obviously don't want to get killed and in TW's case probably wanted an excuse to be alive.

And yes they've been scummy as fuck for a while now but you normally don't lynch cops for a few days and try to get a couple clears or w/e. So even that's kinda meh.

Trench claiming to somehow know sonic's

exact

role based on a crumb is pretty stretchy. Like, believable I guess if them and sonic are like telepathic or soul sisters or something.

The buddy I could make a case for either X or sonic honestly. But we've got enough wiggle room to purge all three so not too worried about it.

Sonic if you are scum bro, like, you had me fooled.

But like, you're a gladiator presumably and were the ultimate decider of our lynch today, so why until you get called out have you been all ghosty and vagueish. And then proceed to spend all your energy getting into a semantics debacle with conftown?

Reminds me of your hash out with beer honestly.

[farside22]

Okay so I see why TW has either hermit or Xtoxm as scum. I think there is scum between one at least.
I still think cooldog is scum. I promised I wouldn't push that today but I'm not promising that tomorrow.

I'm still thinking Xtoxm is scum here. He is really being too quiet for me. idk I don't recall hermit being this dumb before.

I'm really torn between the 2.

I'm going with my gut on who I think is scum there.

vote: Xtoxm

[Reasonably Rational]

Sonic's still town. He's cleared by VCA.

The absolute pool for lynching for me is anyone but Farside, Sonic, me or RR.

Only one of you/Hermit is scum.
Only one of Mastina/Xtoxm is scum.

Given Xtoxm claimed that one of he and Mastina had a night ability, unless I misread something, then he should be lynched. If I have misunderstood something, I'd prefer Hermit as you would be forced to refill Sonic which means town has another gladiate and scum can't push mislynches.. I strongly favor resolving the 1 v 1s that have emerged in my VCA.

Cooldog is more of a consensus lynch.

This post is completely absurd. You're scum. You are a lawyer and you know the difference between having guesses at what abilities might want to be targeted and displaying knowledge of exactly what a role is. You demonstrated that you knew

exactly

what Sonic did. You knew he would get farside's refiller ability, and then after that get his gladiate refilled. Your referring to him as confirmed town when nothing he has claimed is confirmed is even more absurd. Do you think if you repeat it enough times, nobody will realize?

VCA doesn't clear people. VCA is a combination of large scale probability based upon observations of a large sample of games, along with assumptions about how psychology creates patterns in scum voting behavior. While VCA can help you sort and find people who look scummy because of those things, all it really does is sort. You don't make a case out of VCA because, as anyone with a graduate level degree

should

know, you cannot apply large scale probability theories to individual cases, and you cannot depend upon any single human being to line up with an observed psychological trend. The most VCA can do is put you on the trail of people who have things that make them likely to be scum from a meta view. You then have to actually make a case. It's not a voodoo cure all.

Further, your pairings are just dumb. Xtoxm and Mastin are ironclad logically town. Not a single person in the game has even tried to poke a hole in the logic for why they're town.


And what's up with the misdirection? Xtoxm didn't claim he had a night ability, or that Mastin did. That's classic intentional misdirection with some CYA thrown in with that "unless I misread" and "Unless I misunderstood" bullshit you threw in there.

And that last bit is just pathetic. Really? You are going to try and save yourself by trying to start a counterwagon on Cooldog? How about we get a claim out of him yeah?


@Farside - Unless you can point out the flaw in our logic for why Xtoxm and Mastin are both town, you shouldn't vote for Xtoxm. It makes you look really scummy. Titus argues one of them has to be scum because they both got to talk to us on day 3 and according to her you can't have two of the same role on the same alignment ... even if it's a delayed one way masonry, LOL. She says this while asking us to believe that there are two town rolecops.

[Sonic X]

Why do scum kill a watcher/double-voter over a cop?

Well one reason could be that they did it to kill two near confirmed townies who will never get lynched instead of a slot which has had some suspicion on it. Also I still had a watch to use, while TW is out of shots.

...I didn't realize they claimed xshot. Even then at least if I'm scum I kill it anyway because taking xshot claims at face value is naive and can bite you in the ass. It's almost a cliche thing to do these days because cops obviously don't want to get killed and in TW's case probably wanted an excuse to be alive.

And yes they've been scummy as fuck for a while now but you normally don't lynch cops for a few days and try to get a couple clears or w/e. So even that's kinda meh.

Trench claiming to somehow know sonic's

exact

role based on a crumb is pretty stretchy. Like, believable I guess if them and sonic are like telepathic or soul sisters or something.

The buddy I could make a case for either X or sonic honestly. But we've got enough wiggle room to purge all three so not too worried about it.

Sonic if you are scum bro, like, you had me fooled.

But like, you're a gladiator presumably and were the ultimate decider of our lynch today, so why until you get called out have you been all ghosty and vagueish. And then proceed to spend all your energy getting into a semantics debacle with conftown?

Reminds me of your hash out with beer honestly.

I was not actually ghostly and vagueish. But that was because I was going to gladiate a certain person (make a guess) and I think everyone was waiting for me. I wanted to wait 24h so if anyone have a confirmed guilty I can change my target. Now RR has a half guilty so I am waiting to see how this hash out. Unfortunately he is calling me scum in the same post so ._.

Beer was scum reading me initially and town reading frogger ( I think) then later he changed it to scum reading frogger and townreading me. He got it right at the end