Newbie 428: Eat My Shorts! Game Over!

[Arvetis]

I'm actually not sure yet - I realized yesterday that for the first few pages of this game I had Silver Phoenix and SpectrumVoid confused

After work, I can go through the thread and pick SP's posts apart.

[Oman]

I'd like that a lot thanks.

[SilverPhoenix]

29 wrote:
Two people not talking is bad for town at this point since who knows...both can be mafia! I know it's highly unlikely that both are mafia, but it IS likely that one is.
That’s just plain wrong. At this point in the game I’m playing numbers, since nothing scummy had been said. Chances any player is mafia 2/7. Chances any player is lurking 2/7 as well (two lurkers) = 2/7 * 2/7 = 7/25. Therefor its unlikely. Lie, scumtell.

TBH, I didn't do the math. Why does miscalculating the odds make me scum? Also, this is a newbie game, so there are newbie scum who might try to hide themselves a bit more, which makes them more likely to lurk.

77 wrote:
then the particularly active people are the most scum-worthy, like Caliban, Arvetis, Haut Boy, New Coldness, and I.
What a ridiculous extrapolation. WTF arguments, scumtell.

Noob argument = scumtell? Honestly, that argument was horrible..that doesn't mean scum...that means noob.

84 wrote:
'm having mixed feelings about scummie-ness about certain people. I don't think Caliban is super scummy but he certainly is quite active. Not that activeness is a bad thing, but generally an easy scumtell is over-activity to get a bandwagon going on a townie. spectrumvoid only recently revealed her intentions, and JDodge is also an IC player who hasn't revealed his suspicions yet....I find it odd that the ICs in this game are a tad slow to respond but I guess that is a result of them being watchful and not finding anything...
Wishy-washy right through until a complete defence of JDodge. Wishy- washy, scumtell

Defense of JDodge? From what? I wanted to know JDodge's intentions...because at that point not many of the IC's were responding (SV, JDodge in particular). I gave the ICs respect, not defense. And then he said he was sick. I was merely guessing why he wasn't active.

84 wrote:
some mistakes are made in jest by new players (like me ), but others should be interpreted as scumtells.
Where do you draw the line? Also, your argument has no conclusion, leading me to think it was made to make you Seem town. LIPS, Scumtell

You're taking this out of context (like almost every argument I'm defending in this post). As you have said, Coldness (who I was referring to) was jumping on a mistake by Haut Boy and SV said that it was a scumtell on Coldness. I marginally agreed with her argument, due to what I said in your quote.

108 wrote:
SV seems avoiding all attacks on her..
SV is avoiding everything! The whole thread. Flawed argument involving lies, scumtell x2.

I was agreeing with Coldness' argument. He made a good one and I agreed. I didn't realize she was being replaced due to inactivity, however. I thought she was deliberately lurking, which is a scumtell.

108 wrote:
JDodge was kinda of scummy last page but I don't have enough suspicion with him
Yet you jump on SV on a flawed argument (see above) scumtell.

See above argument.

I don't like the fact that you take several posts out of context and place it in your own to fit your argument (as Arvetis said before). However, I see this as a playstyle difference rather than scummy. Since my vote right now is for you (or SV, rather), I'll

Unvote

.

[Arvetis]

Yikes... sorry guys, something came up, and I have to hop on a plane to Florida. I'll have Internet access where I'm going, so I don't need to be replaced or anything, but I might not be able to post more tonight or tomorrow. I'll work on that post breakdown as soon as I can.

Noob argument = scumtell? Honestly, that argument was horrible..that doesn't mean scum...that means noob.

An illogical argument doesn't necessarily mean noobishness. The town's job is to find the truth, and the scum's job is to obscure it. Because of that, illogical arguments are one of the scum's tools.

[Oman]

29 wrote:
Two people not talking is bad for town at this point since who knows...both can be mafia! I know it's highly unlikely that both are mafia, but it IS likely that one is.
That’s just plain wrong. At this point in the game I’m playing numbers, since nothing scummy had been said. Chances any player is mafia 2/7. Chances any player is lurking 2/7 as well (two lurkers) = 2/7 * 2/7 = 7/25. Therefor its unlikely. Lie, scumtell.

TBH, I didn't do the math. Why does miscalculating the odds make me scum? Also, this is a newbie game, so there are newbie scum who might try to hide themselves a bit more, which makes them more likely to lurk.

I didn't say scumtell because you miscalculated. I said scumtell because you lied. Also, I'd like to point this out: "I didn't do the math" and "Why does miscalculating the odds[...]" Did you calculate or not? You can't miscalculate if you didn't do the math. Not a big thing, just thought I'd point it out.

77 wrote:
then the particularly active people are the most scum-worthy, like Caliban, Arvetis, Haut Boy, New Coldness, and I.
What a ridiculous extrapolation. WTF arguments, scumtell.

Noob argument = scumtell? Honestly, that argument was horrible..that doesn't mean scum...that means noob.

That line is so fine, especially in newbie games. Noob arguments are scumtells, becuase they often both use faulty reasoning. I'd like to finish this section with a quote of your own from 84

but just because this is a newbie game, doesn't mean that mistakes should be shrugged off.

QED

84 wrote:
'm having mixed feelings about scummie-ness about certain people. I don't think Caliban is super scummy but he certainly is quite active. Not that activeness is a bad thing, but generally an easy scumtell is over-activity to get a bandwagon going on a townie. spectrumvoid only recently revealed her intentions, and JDodge is also an IC player who hasn't revealed his suspicions yet....I find it odd that the ICs in this game are a tad slow to respond but I guess that is a result of them being watchful and not finding anything...
Wishy-washy right through until a complete defence of JDodge. Wishy- washy, scumtell

Defense of JDodge? From what? I wanted to know JDodge's intentions...because at that point not many of the IC's were responding (SV, JDodge in particular). I gave the ICs respect, not defense. And then he said he was sick. I was merely guessing why he wasn't active.

The last sentence of your defence is irrelevant. At this time he hadn't told us he was sick. The rest of it I can explain. You give Dodge a way out. You say "I guess that is a result of them being watchful" which gives JDodge an excuse to use if the need arrises. Also, I gave you the scumpoint in that for being wishy-washy, so its really academic at this point.

84 wrote:
some mistakes are made in jest by new players (like me ), but others should be interpreted as scumtells.
Where do you draw the line? Also, your argument has no conclusion, leading me to think it was made to make you Seem town. LIPS, Scumtell

You're taking this out of context (like almost every argument I'm defending in this post). As you have said, Coldness (who I was referring to) was jumping on a mistake by Haut Boy and SV said that it was a scumtell on Coldness. I marginally agreed with her argument, due to what I said in your quote.

Again, you miss what I point out as a scumtell. I say you're Lurking in Plain Sight (LIPS) which means you post so that it doesn't look like you're lurking, but your posts come to little or no conclusion. I accept the argument as true, but there is no finale to that. Note that this post on its own doesn't look too bad, but put it with the rest of your posts that come to no conclusion or are wishy-washy and you see the pattern. In other words, don't take yourself out of context.

108 wrote:
SV seems avoiding all attacks on her..
SV is avoiding everything! The whole thread. Flawed argument involving lies, scumtell x2.

I was agreeing with Coldness' argument. He made a good one and I agreed. I didn't realize she was being replaced due to inactivity, however. I thought she was deliberately lurking, which is a scumtell.

Seems rather opportunistic to jump on Coldness' flawed argument. However, I still remain firm that it should have been obvious SV wasn't just avoiding attacks.

108 wrote:
JDodge was kinda of scummy last page but I don't have enough suspicion with him
Yet you jump on SV on a flawed argument (see above) scumtell.

See above argument.

Doesn't matter if you thought SV was lurking or not. Lurker =\= Scum.
Lets take it that SV was lurking:
You jump all over SV for something that was slightly scummy (lurking) and yet, you put this half-hearted post in on JD, who did something just as if not more scummy. Also, when you find out SV was inactive, the vote stays and not even an FoS goes on JD.

Since my vote right now is for you (or SV, rather), I'll Unvote.

Who do you see as scummy now? Who do you think is mostly likely their partner? You can include as many people as you want on that list.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

SilverPhoenix: 2 (Oman, Caliban )
Arvetis: 2 (Sir Tornado, JDodge)
Sir Tornado: 1 (New Coldness)
JDodge: 1 (Arvetis)

Not voting: SilverPhoenix

With 7 alive it will take

4

votes to lynch!

Deadline extended: Thursday 30th August 9am BST

[New Coldness]

Wakes up, stretches arms, yawns

Tornado hasn't posted yet, huh? Yeah, my vote's fine where it is. I'll respond to some of the MEGA POSTS later.

Rolls over, goes back to sleep

[SilverPhoenix]

You draw a good deal of criticism of me from my voting of spectrumvoid, but
1. I agreed with New Coldness, and you gave him a nothingtell on his post. I simply misunderstood his post. I mean, you can't really edit what you say but I still agreed with him.
2. I wanted to make a vote before the deadline. I went with what I thought was the best option. Making the deadline is also the reason I'm at -2 right now.

In the spirit of an impending deadline and making decisive action: Vote: SilverPhoenix

Now that the deadline is officially extended, I think we can take a step back and not try to quicklynch.

I also have a comment on an earlier topic...

-2 is a very Pro-town move.

Not if the scum have the -2 vote (assuming the target is town). If the original voter is able to make a convincing argument, then he can easily get other townies to lynch. Then the blame falls to the townie who made the argument on d2 and then you have 2 mislynches, at which it is too late for the town to win. Scum can easily hide themselves in a -2. All he has to do is agree with a townie with a hunch against another townie.

[Caliban]

I have to disagree, I think, in my limited knowledge, that voting to -2 has spurred much more discussion, if someone was at -2 and then got quick lynched we'd all been looking very carefully at vote 3+4, who, without a sterling reason, would almost certainly be scum and easy pickings.
I salute your posting but I'm still not convinced, yet.
I still think your tactical doctrine of, 2 lurker, prob. 1 scum, avoiding -2 voting and your soft accusation then vindication of JDodge.

I'm also very suspicions of JDodge himself, his few posts seem, mostly, to be an attempt to draw more reasons for voting certain players without adding anything (67), and "I’m busy", "I'm sick" only stretches so far. (If it's not a game ploy then I wish you the very best of health).

Oman seems to have blown a wind of change through the game, which is no bad thing, however someone who seems to be yelling "TOWN, TOWN, TOWN" also needs to watched just case, under their breath, "scum, scum scum" can be heard. I've agreed with him mostly so far but he's not the messiah he's a very thorough poster.

[Oman]

Pheonix, I asked you this before:

Who do you see as scummy now? Who do you think is mostly likely their partner? You can include as many people as you want on that list.

Also, about the whole -2 thing. If two townies were convinced to hammer and -1 a townie, they must have been playing pretty badly.

[Caliban]

Not to be a moan, but it has been over 48hrs since the last post.

I'm not sure really sure how to add to the proceedings without a few more people contributing.

[Sir Tornado]

Er... I forgot to add this game to my list of Watched topics! Posting something ASAP.

[Sir Tornado]

I'm also very suspicions of JDodge himself, his few posts seem, mostly, to be an attempt to draw more reasons for voting certain players without adding anything (67), and "I’m busy", "I'm sick" only stretches so far. (If it's not a game ploy then I wish you the very best of health).

Just read this while skimming... apparently, JDodge is/was sick with some kind of ailment to the ear (he informed that to the mod in another game I am with him at the moment.)

[Oman]

JD is acutally sick Caliban, d/w he'll be back when the trucks full of pills don't have to go to his house anymore.

[JDodge]

I want to see some actual content from Sir T before I comment any further. I'll explain my reasoning later.

[New Coldness]

I want to see some actual content from Sir T before I comment any further. I'll explain my reasoning later.

Ya-huh. Vote ain't movin'.

[Arvetis]

OK, here's my promised take on SP, later than anticipated. Sorry, but better late than never.

Overall, he actually seems rather neutral to me, with perhaps a few newbie mistakes. There is a little bis of suspicious stuff, but no more than what I can see from others, too.

One strange thing is Haut Boy's removal of his vote from SP on page 2, I think. No reason given, just a vote change. Obviously that's something out of SP's control, but why would Haut Boy do that? Any idea, SP?

I will be watching the first person to vote to -2....

This is perhaps the scummiest thing SP has said. Discouraging votes (at -2 no less, not even -1) is very anti-town. Votes are the town's only weapon. On the other hand, if this is a scum move, it's a very clever scum move. No offense, but that doesn't fit in with other things SP has done, like

...then the particularly active people are the most scum-worthy

and

I wouldn't expect the scum to screw up yet. Even though it is a newbie game, it can take at least until D2 or even D3 to have the scum falter. Of course at that point it is almost too late...

Both of these arguments are not only false, they're just silly. I suppose they could be distraction techniques from a scum, but frankly they just rang newbish to me.

Later, SP votes for SV, but doesn't really defend it much, beyond "I agree with New Coldnss." SP, could you give some more specifics on why you decided to do that?

That’s just plain wrong. At this point in the game I’m playing numbers, since nothing scummy had been said. Chances any player is mafia 2/7. Chances any player is lurking 2/7 as well (two lurkers) = 2/7 * 2/7 = 7/25. Therefor its unlikely. Lie, scumtell.

Oman, I have to point out that this is actually wrong. SP admits that it's unlikely that BOTH lurkers are scum (which is what your calculation would be for) but says it's a good chance that ONE of them is. It's been a long time since I took statistics, and I've forgotten how to calculate the odds of something like that. I think you have to start with 1 and subtract the odds for each person NOT being scum? Either way, the chances are, in fact, a lot more likely. It seems like you misread what SP was trying to say.

[Oman]

for both you do it how i did it, for either you subtract nots. 1- (everything else)

[SilverPhoenix]

why would Haut Boy do that?

His vote was a random vote and he unvoted to vote for someone else, I think.

SP, could you give some more specifics on why you decided to do that?

Sure. I do admit that it was a rushed vote to try and get it in at the deadline. I also misinterpreted Coldness' post as her not contributing and getting away with it.
I am going to do a re-read a bit later today...so look out for a big post.

[Caliban]

I'm not sure we need to get into the statistical minutia of it. The statement, "two lurkers prolly at least one scum", is kinda dodgy, it smells a lot like some knows who the scum is and is trying to deflect attention.

Alternatively it could be a legitimate assumption.

I feel bad because there's certainly no certainty but you (SP) seem to be the scummiest town member at the moment.

I'm hoping your big post can help identify some scum.

JOKE
p.s. I think we shoudl lynch Sir Tornado 100% based on his sig. 0/2 as town 4/4 as mafia? 50% chance he's mafia (4-2 OMG!) and even if not he's got a 0% win ratio for town, time to tip the stats in or favour!
/JOKE

[Oman]

7 days till deadline and neither of these wagons are going anywhere.

[JDodge]

Unvote, vote: Sir T

I dislike the lurking.

[Oman]

I'm staying on SP, I think he reacted badly to my PBPA of him. I also stand by every point I made in that PBPA regarding SP.

[Arvetis]

I'm not sure we need to get into the statistical minutia of it. The statement, "two lurkers prolly at least one scum", is kinda dodgy, it smells a lot like some knows who the scum is and is trying to deflect attention.

Actually, doing the math, I think it comes out to being slightly more likely that one of any two given players are scum than that neither are scum.... go figure

[Arvetis]

Oman, you do realize that if SP gets lynched and turns out to be town, the focus of suspicion is going to be on you, right? I don't mean that threateningly, I just think it's true and I'm pointing it out.

As I'm sure you can tell from my response, I don't agree that SP is 100% scummy. Do you have any responses to the things I said?