NY 188: Delicious Mafia II (Post-game chatter)

Spiffeh · Post Post #925 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:03 am

That's not because two people just voted for him I swear.

SilverWolf · Post Post #926 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:04 am

Well, I just can't believe any mod would give me the name of the ScumPT and say I can't visit.

Do you guys have any idea how close to game breaking that would be?

Lapsa · Post Post #927 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:04 am

much cooperate, very reluctant

VOTE: wake

Wake1 · Post Post #928 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:07 am

In post 921, Salamence20 wrote:VOTE: wake

Seem pretty defensive of the mafia PT, arent you?

Considering I'm saying that it's not wise to automatically assume that the Penthouse must be a Mafia PT, what you're saying makes absolutely zero sense.

Why are you twisting my words?

Quaroath · Post Post #929 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:07 am

In post 914, Wake1 wrote: Why would a Mafia PT be called the Penthouse, and why would a claimed Town PR be allowed to ask questions there through the Mod?

My vote is 100% for this section. SW made it very clear she that you couldn't ask in the Penthouse, but he's implying strongly you can.

I'm far more interested in Penthouse stories tomorrow, if we get any.

Salamence20 · Post Post #930 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:08 am

In post 926, SilverWolf wrote:Well, I just can't believe any mod would give me the name of the ScumPT and say I can't visit.

Do you guys have any idea how close to game breaking that would be?

They can and would.

Salamence20 · Post Post #931 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:09 am

In post 926, SilverWolf wrote:Well, I just can't believe any mod would give me the name of the ScumPT and say I can't visit.

Do you guys have any idea how close to game breaking that would be?

How does the title of the Mafia PT make it broken?

Its not like anyone is claiming Penthouse townie

Wake1 · Post Post #932 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:11 am

In post 920, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 914, Wake1 wrote: Why would a Mafia PT be called the Penthouse, and why would a claimed Town PR be allowed to ask questions there through the Mod?

I can't visit the Penthouse or ask questions there.

OK.

Do you assume the Penthouse must be a Scum PT?

Because I don't think we should assume that just yet.

It could be a design to throw us off, and make us think it must be a Scum PT. Remember that one game where I put you in a hood with three other Scum? Something tricky like that.

SilverWolf · Post Post #933 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:16 am

In post 932, Wake1 wrote:
In post 920, SilverWolf wrote:
In post 914, Wake1 wrote: Why would a Mafia PT be called the Penthouse, and why would a claimed Town PR be allowed to ask questions there through the Mod?

I can't visit the Penthouse or ask questions there.

OK.

Do you assume the Penthouse must be a Scum PT?

Because I don't think we should assume that just yet.

It could be a design to throw us off, and make us think it must be a Scum PT. Remember that one game where I put you in a hood with three other Scum? Something tricky like that.

I don't assume it's the ScumPT.

My role PM said I know of the existence of all the neighborhoods in the game and listed those 4.

I assume they are all neighborhoods.

I believe me not being able to visit that one is a check on my role for some reason that will become evident at some point in the game.

Salamence20 · Post Post #934 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:25 am

Silver for some reason thinks his role is OP.

Someone please tell him hes not. Just because he knows the NAME of the PTs doesnt mean he knows what they are or their meaning to the gamestate.

However, outting that made Wake defensive over the locked hood, which makes it seem like he may be mafia in the locked thread

Wake1 · Post Post #935 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:32 am

Wait. If you SW were told they were all neighborhoods, then it's not possible those neighborhoods could be a Mafia PT, because they're different groups of hidden threads.

Salamence, I'm not defensive over this supposedly locked hood. What I took issue with was the assumption that it had to have been a Scum PT. We now know for sure it isn't.

At this point, I really don't understand the nature of the locked thread, and I don't know if it's really wise for Town to inquire further. Honestly, I don't think any of this should have been leaked, because if SW is a Town PR, she's now a target. It does feel, and I think you could agree, that more often than not during Day 1 at least one Town PR is claimed, and this shouldn't happen, because it gives Scum useful information. Presuming you and I are members of Town, we should be denying Scum as much helpful information to them as possible. Please get past what you think of me personally, and share with me what you honestly think of my position on this. I don't think any more Town PRs should claim, unless it's at LI, and intent to hammer has been voiced.

Salamence20 · Post Post #936 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:36 am

This PR isnt something mafia care about today.

Someone ask areo the definition of Neighborhoods

SilverWolf · Post Post #937 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:45 am

In post 934, Salamence20 wrote:Silver for some reason thinks his role is OP.

Someone please tell him hes not. Just because he knows the NAME of the PTs doesnt mean he knows what they are or their meaning to the gamestate.

However, outting that made Wake defensive over the locked hood, which makes it seem like he may be mafia in the locked thread

I am a she and if I thought I was OP, I wouldn't have outed. I think the fact that I can't access the 4th hood is because it would provide me with more information that I should have.

Wake1 · Post Post #938 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:47 am

In post 936, Salamence20 wrote:This PR isnt something mafia care about today.

Someone ask areo the definition of Neighborhoods

It's still presumably a Town PR, which is worth more to them killing over a Vanilla Townie. I don't know what Scum is thinking, but I do suspect they, if given the choice, would attempt to kill a PR over a VT. That much I would argue.

I don't think Aero would consider a Neighborhood and a Scum PT to be the same. If Aero wants to clarify this [and I would not mind that] he can.

vettrock · Post Post #939 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:48 am

In post 936, Salamence20 wrote:This PR isnt something mafia care about today.

Someone ask areo the definition of Neighborhoods

Neighborhoods are as defined in the wiki

Neighborhood

Wake1 · Post Post #940 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:54 am

With respect, am I correct in assuming that Aeronaut, Cheetory, and Vettrock are the co-Mods of this game? [Saw no mention of this in the OP, so wanted to be certain]

SilverWolf · Post Post #941 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:59 am

Aero is the mod. Cheet and Vetrock are co-mods.

Wake1 · Post Post #942 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:06 am

Thank you.

Skybird · Post Post #943 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:15 am

Spiffeh, let me play devil's advocate for just a moment. If Anna was scum, why would she post so strangely? I don't see the scum motivation to drawing that much negative attention to oneself. On the other hand, is there town motivation behind doing that either.

Kop · Post Post #944 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:19 am

In post 936, Salamence20 wrote:This PR isnt something mafia care about today.

Someone ask areo the definition of Neighborhoods

Why would mafia not care about this PR? Would you like to elaborate your point here, because as far as I think about SW role, surely with her questions to the mod, she can gain information, to something that mafia won't want her to get, or am I barking up the wrong tree here?

Kop · Post Post #945 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:22 am

In post 943, Skybird wrote:Spiffeh, let me play devil's advocate for just a moment.
If Anna was scum, why would she post so strangely? I don't see the scum motivation to drawing that much negative attention to oneself
. On the other hand, is there town motivation behind doing that either.

I don't like that argument, that alone I won't/don't buy. If you play scummy, then surely your up for the lynch, regardless of that argument alone.

If we were to use that argument then scum could easily post so scummy nobody wouldn't give it that much attention, as why would scum be that silly?

Skybird · Post Post #946 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:25 am

Kop, that is a fair interpretation of the question. However, I was asking Spiffeh. Why did you jump in on my question to him?

Kop · Post Post #947 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:30 am

In post 946, Skybird wrote:Kop, that is a fair interpretation of the question. However, I was asking Spiffeh. Why did you jump in on my question to him?

Purely because I had my opinion, to which I wanted to put it out there.

Spiffeh · Post Post #948 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:32 am

Wake's early posting was fine but as the game progressed there are just a lot of things I like to call "words without substance" statements that are starting to become more and more present in his posts. Some examples:

In post 442, Wake1 wrote:I'm inclined to agree with this, assuming the person joining the vote isn't giving a reason, or a weak or very similar one. HOWEVER, if two players are voting someone for nearly the same reason, it'd help if voter #2 at least gave his or her own reasons, instead of just saying 'what he said,' or a brief line that encapsulates exactly what voter #1's reasons were.

If someone's sheeping here, they should talk more, so we can better break down where that individual lies, by checking a lot of his or her thoughts.

In post 445, Wake1 wrote:We can assume there is at least one anti-Town entity in the game. That much is certain.

Without evidence, we can't say it's for sure multiball, but we shouldn't automatically assume it's singleball, either.

Especially when you try to imply others are Town based off of that assumption.

It may be that SW is a Serial Killer, and Redff is Blue Scum. Or, the two could be any combination of three possible non-aligned scum forces. THEN AGAIN, and I know some may incorrectly call this WIFOM but I want us to use logic here, they could both be on the same scum team. One could be Town; they could both be Town.

What I'm trying to say is we shouldn't start implying people are Town on the faulty assumption that this is singleball. It is way too early to start making conclusions.

Setup speculation: #1 way scum can be vocal without having to actually make stances. He could have just said the bolded; the whole post was unnecessary and seems like an attempt to appear contributing when it's just saying a whole lot of nothing.

In post 471, Wake1 wrote:Engaging is productive. Shinobi engaging with me was productive, in that I feel I can trust him just a touch more. Your refusal to really talk with me about the game isn't automatically going to make me distrust you, but it's not going to help me trust you, either. We should be active and talking and sharing our thoughts and challenging each other. By not doing that with me, even if it's to utterly uproot my points, deprives Town of information to utilize. If there were only two options, one being you completely destroying my points openly by posting, or two saying it's irrelevant and saying it's not productive, I'd rather you choose the former.

In post 564, Wake1 wrote:[0001] Gamestate At the present moment, I'm not certain what the Setup is. Unlike TSO, I don't think it is prudent to assume one way or another right now. I think we should keep the possibilities open in the back of our minds. It may be singleball, or it may be two 3-player Scum teams with Daytalk and a Serial Killer. Without further evidence, we cannot deduce further. What must not be done, is assuming the Setup is one way, and then deciding someone's alignment based on that assumption. It's a Closed Setup, with an unknown number and quantity of Scum factions, and, iirc, this game may not even be balanced. It could be sort of like my Freshwater Frenzy, which made full use of the new guidelines. Whatever the case, let's... let's keep an open mind and err on the side of caution. My nature is to suspect the worst and, even if it's not nearly as bad, player under those worst of conditions. Meaning, should we win and it not be the worst case scenario, splendid.

More setup spec.

All of these posts serve no purpose other than to take up room and contribute to Wake's protown resume without him actually doing anything beneficial to the town. Wake is such a strong believer in engagements between players but his "engagements" have yielded no results in the form of reads or votes. I could not tell you where Wake's head is at right now, which worries me for someone who talks such a big game. Even when I actually see him engage with other players I don't think it's fruitful to the discussion and seem like throwaway questions more than scumhunting (looking at post 460 here).

So since no one is wagoning Annadog for reasons I am unaware of I'll hop on the Wake wagon.
VOTE: Wake

Spiffeh · Post Post #949 (ISO) » Thu Aug 13, 2015 8:35 am

In post 943, Skybird wrote:Spiffeh, let me play devil's advocate for just a moment. If Anna was scum, why would she post so strangely? I don't see the scum motivation to drawing that much negative attention to oneself. On the other hand, is there town motivation behind doing that either.

Why would Grayfox so blatantly not be playing his town meta if he was scum?
"Why would this person act so scummy if they were scum?"

Anything can be boiled down to a WIFOM argument which is why they hold no weight. Is this really your basis for not scumreading Annadog?