Newbie 428: Eat My Shorts! Game Over!

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Arvetis: 2 (spectrumvoid, JDodge)
Haut Boy: 1 (SilverPhoenix)
Caliban: 1 (Arvetis)
JDodge: 1 (New Coldness)
New Coldness: 1 (Caliban)

Not voting: Haut Boy

With 7 alive it will take

4

votes to lynch!

Deadline: Friday 24th August 9am BST

[SilverPhoenix]

BST? What is that in GMT? (like EST is GMT-4)

[Mr Stoofer]

BST = GMT +1. It is now 3.11pm BST.

[Caliban]

Is it a no-lynch if we get to the deadline without a decision?

[Mr Stoofer]

I'll accept 3 votes to lynch at the deadline; if nobody has 3 votes by then, the game will go to night without a lynch.

[New Coldness]

I seriously doubt that Arvetis is scum, and I see Spectrumvoid getting a very, very undeserved free pass.

Unvote; vote Spectrumvoid

[Arvetis]

I seriously doubt that Arvetis is scum, and I see Spectrumvoid getting a very, very undeserved free pass.

Unvote; vote Spectrumvoid

Can you be more specific? What's he getting a free pass for?

Does anyone else think JDodge was pretty scummy on the last page? I do.

[New Coldness]

Spectrumvoid is lurky and hasn't responded to anything I've said to her. And everyone is just ignoring what she's doing and is focusing on her accusations against you, which I've found to be pretty weak.

Arvetis, I think you're town and I think Spectrum is trying to wagon you. And I think she's succeeding.

[SilverPhoenix]

I agree with Coldness. SV seems avoiding all attacks on her....JDodge was kinda of scummy last page but I don't have enough suspicion with him....so

Unvote, Vote: spectrumvoid

[Mr Stoofer]

Sir Tornado replaces spectrumvoid, Oman replaces Haut Boy.

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

Sir Torndao: 2 (New Coldness, SilverPhoenix)
Arvetis: 2 (Sir Tornado, JDodge)
Caliban: 1 (Arvetis)
New Coldness: 1 (Caliban)

Not voting: Oman

With 7 alive it will take

4

votes to lynch!

Deadline: Friday 24th August 9am BST

[SilverPhoenix]

So has the deadline passed?

[Caliban]

why do you want to night-kill someone? JK

Next friday.

Two replacements will that make it easier or harder to place them with the town or mafia?

I'm finding it hard not to suspect anyone who agrees with some else about scummy behaviour. I did kinda find Jdodge's previous posts to be kinda scummy, but them I kinda got suckered in as well so if i can make the mistake maybe he's over-keen town?

If the lurkiest players have been replaced then tha kinda indicates their lurking was not a plan. I would be inclined to assume 'town until proven scum' about the replacements.

So that leaves the two current suspcious players as Jdodge and Arvetis, and I'm more inclined to distrust Jdodge at the moment since Arvetis's's's (?) posts have all been pretty solidly convincing so far.

[Caliban]

Edit^

Realise I didn't come to much of a conclusion there.

In conclusion, Jdodge needs to front up some townie brownies pretty quick.

FOS:

Jdodge

[SilverPhoenix]

I was just making sure.....I thought it did but living in EST I am not too sure

[JDodge]

Mod:

I am sick. Could we have a deadline extension so that I can contribute at least a little bit to the day's conversation?

[Oman]

Hey guys, I'll reread and post today

Mod

Can we get a deadline extension so that i can read up. cheers!

[Oman]

Also

townie brownies

You offically win.

[Arvetis]

Spectrumvoid is lurky and hasn't responded to anything I've said to her. And everyone is just ignoring what she's doing and is focusing on her accusations against you, which I've found to be pretty weak.

Arvetis, I think you're town and I think Spectrum is trying to wagon you. And I think she's succeeding.

OK, this is what I don't understand. Did I miss a post somewhere? I don't see where spectrumvoid has said anything about me. She's just random voted for me because I was the only one on page one with no votes. But both you and JDodge have acted like she's attacking me. WTF?

[Oman]

I am adding stuff to the end of these (short summary with scum/town/other-tell) to help me when I read back through it, who gets my vote.

Firstly: Some post stats. Hautboy enters at

33

Caliban gives the okay for us to start lynching townies in

19

and in

20

he complains about typos. These may not look like much, and I doubt they are... sorry just a little joke to start my PBPA.

Players:

Arvetis

My response was as much a joke as his message. Notice I didn't change my vote, you son of a witch.

Aggressive response early on, scumtell.

Because newbie scum players often feel "under the gun," they sometimes act in strange ways that either gives them away, or pisses off the town enough to lynch them.

Completely true and this post is helpful, towntell.

I dunno, at this point I don't think lurking is TOO scummy. It's not much of a risk for scum to come out of the woodwork and make noise while random voting is going on. It's far more scummy if they disappear when real suspicion is being thrown around.

This is true in the last sentence, but the beginning is maybe covering for a lurky buddy. I don’t think it’s bad enough to warrant a tell though. Nothingtell.

How is what I said false at all? Most scum, if they've read at least one game, have figured out that lurking too much early on gets the town annoyed at them and results in votes. Coming out and voting for people with no explanation, however, benefits them, and the very beginning of the game is the only time they can get away with it. Lurking in the beginning of the game is overrated as a scumtell.

WAAY to defensive to a comment that was laden with sarcasm. +scumpoints. Over aggression, scumtell.

and Caliban for taking JDodge's crappy argument and running with it.

You get over aggressive on Caliban for pointing out an argument to you. Over aggression, scumtell. At this point I’m starting to think Arvetis is just aggressive as a play-style.

Does anyone else think JDodge was pretty scummy on the last page? I do.

Then vote for him, what’s the problem? Fake reluctance, scumtell.

Caliban

It seems like someone has to be lynched off the back of wild speculation or a misunderstood joke on the first day

This rubs me the wrong way, it’s very...forgiving of a day one mislynch. Yes, a townie is often lynched, but that doesn’t mean you just accept it and draw a random name, scumtell/newbtell.

I guess nobody is gonna break ranks and fire in a, 50% lynch, second vote just yet though.

for some reason he enjoys narrating the game, nothingtell.

Ah-ha! Shake the reeds and out pops a critter!

I can accept this as a joke, but if he meant this its jumping to strange conclusions, nothingtell.

Let's get lynchin! Or discussing or whatever.....

Eager to lynch, typical newb trait, newbietell.

Hmmm I'm not convinced, although I'm not gonna express a more serious level of suspicion at this time

This is one of those wishy-washy moments here. I’ll put it down to newbishness atm.

(I ain't switching votes or calling the bandwagon)

Tries to make himself look guilt free. I’m gonna have to put this down as: Laundering, scumtell.

You'll notice, that I did not feel moved to FOS or vote, I was simply calling for your rebuttal.

1. There was no argument, there should be no need for rebuttal.
2. You’re laundering again. Reverse-Strawman, scumtell. Laundering, scumtell.

FOS: Jdodge

Thank god, we finally get some action out you . You’ve been all bark, no bite, but this is nice to see some work. Towntell.

JDodge

I agree with SV that Arvetis is scummiest at the moment, though.

A few things bug me about this. One is that SV voted for Arvetis 67 posts before as a random to put everyone at 1 on. Also, JD attempts to latch onto SV’s “argument” so as to not present one of his own. Adds nothing else. WTF argument, Scumtell. Latching, Scumtell. Zero content, scumtell Three in one. JD is obviously not reading this thread but is still throwing votes on.

New Coldness

FoS Spectrumvoid, but not really. I mean, easy mistake to make.

Very wishy-washy. Covering all bases, scumtell.

You made a statement on play philosophy and I disagreed with it.

Very protown defence.

I seriously doubt that Arvetis is scum, and I see Spectrumvoid getting a very, very undeserved free pass.

Turning attention to a lurker isn’t instantly scummy, but it certainly hits the books. Nothingtell.

SilverPhoenix

Two people not talking is bad for town at this point since who knows...both can be mafia! I know it's highly unlikely that both are mafia, but it IS likely that one is.

That’s just plain wrong. At this point in the game I’m playing numbers, since nothing scummy had been said. Chances any player is mafia 2/7. Chances any player is lurking 2/7 as well (two lurkers) = 2/7 * 2/7 = 7/25. Therefor its unlikely. Lie, scumtell.

I will be watching the first person to vote to -2....

GRRR. -2 Gets discussion, and all you’re trying to do is stamp it out. No wonder this got deadlined.

I was just trying to spur discussion at this point, not really arouse suspicion or cause an FoS.

This is strange as you respond to a post that is not accusing you of attempting to arouse suspicion of any kind. It’s slightly defensive, but the content is town, nothingtell.

then the particularly active people are the most scum-worthy, like Caliban, Arvetis, Haut Boy, New Coldness, and I.

What a ridiculous extrapolation. WTF arguments, scumtell.

'm having mixed feelings about scummie-ness about certain people. I don't think Caliban is super scummy but he certainly is quite active. Not that activeness is a bad thing, but generally an easy scumtell is over-activity to get a bandwagon going on a townie. spectrumvoid only recently revealed her intentions, and JDodge is also an IC player who hasn't revealed his suspicions yet....I find it odd that the ICs in this game are a tad slow to respond but I guess that is a result of them being watchful and not finding anything...

Wishy-washy right through until a complete defence of JDodge. Wishy- washy, scumtell

some mistakes are made in jest by new players (like me ), but others should be interpreted as scumtells.

Where do you draw the line? Also, your argument has no conclusion, leading me to think it was made to make you

Seem

town. LIPS, Scumtell

SV seems avoiding all attacks on her..

SV is avoiding everything! The whole thread. Flawed argument involving lies, scumtell x2.

JDodge was kinda of scummy last page but I don't have enough suspicion with him

Yet you jump on SV on a flawed argument (see above) scumtell.

Sir Tornado

I missed post 33. unvote, vote: Arvetis

This is rather interesting, puts someone at -2 and then (though SV is IC enough to know the purpose of bandwagons) unvotes and puts it on Arvetis. Reluctance to wagon to -2, scumtell.

I'm unhappy with your FOS on HB, firstly because he's not here to defend himself, and secondly because this is a newbie, and I find you jumping over a mistake odd.

SV and HB look more likely here, nothingtell though.

1. HB + SP = scum.
Contrary to what Caliban posted, it doesn't mean have to rely on the pms before game theory. I've seen smarter scum leading their less-smart scum buddy avoid detection with something like a 'don't lurk' post.

However, I disagree. SP's lurking post doesn't really sound like a lead to his scum buddy. Also, there isn't enough evidence to go on.

Wishy-washy as all get out. Wishy-washy, scumtell.

Scoreboard

Arvetis: 4 scumtells, 1 towntell

Caliban: 2 scumtells (the rest are mostly newbish), 1 towntell.

JD: 4 Scumtells (+1 for lurking, even before you got sick), 0 towntells.

New Coldness: 1 scumtell, 1 towntell.

Silver Phenoix: 7 scumtells, 0 towntells.

Sir Tornado: 3 Scumtells (+1 for lurking), 0 towntells.


Note: the scoreboard is not definitive as many of the active players have more, or as many, scumtells as the inactive players, but the idea is there.

Oman’s Conclusion:

Silver Phenoix and JDodge scumpair.

Especially these posts:

JDodge was kinda of scummy last page but I don't have enough suspicion with him

[...]JDodge is also an IC player who hasn't revealed his suspicions yet [...] but I guess that is a result of them being watchful and not finding anything...

Oman’s Action:

Vote: Silverpheonix

[Caliban]

Sweeeeeeeeeet post!

Initially I'll address the nature and purpose of your

MEGA-POST

. In some part is seems to be an attempt to communicate exactly what you are thinking, even if it means discussion suspicion of nearly everyone, which is something I've tried to do, I think it's important that we keep a robust dialog with each other addressing mistrust, even slight.

I'm not too convinced by your statistical use of 'scum-tells' and 'town-tells' I would assume in any game which involves a deal of human behaviour, 'expect the unexpected' what's to stop the mafia, with an equal knowledge, to simply also identify these tells and mimic the town ones? I don't think we can take these numbers as empirical data, however the comments themselves are of much more use, teaching 101 people tend to look at their marks straight away and put less importance on comments, it should be the other way round.

In response to my criticism; I've been trying to put any thoughts I have down in posts, if it appears wishy-washy then it only represents my initial indecision, which is more to do with lack of action to discuss rather than an attempt to gloss over anything. I have made a few jokey posts also. I'm not exactly sure what Laundering is (I checked the wiki - no dice) but if you mean trying to keep myself looking innocent by not committing to suspicion then I'm just trying to avoid making a mistake by pushing through a lynch on the back of what, could be, quite light suspicion.

I'm interested in what you said about voting to -2, in a game with 2 scum that means they can quick lynch, however this seems like it would put much more pressure on vote 3 & 4 than vote 2, something I hadn't really thought about until now is that vote 2 at this stage is a very provocative statement, we currently have two people at -2.

Sir Tornado, I think, unfairly since he's suffering from his previous incarnations’ lurkiness.

Arvetis, I'm also not convinced about these votes either, Jdodge's vote has been shown to have less foundation than the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

At the moment I'm willing to agree with Oman's post. Although be warned sonny Jim; I still harbour a small kernel of mistrust that your post is an expansive pro-town white elephant and a scum ploy.

I'll turn away from Jdodge just now and wish him a get well soon.

In the spirit of an impending deadline and making decisive action:

unvote

Vote: Silverpheonix

[Oman]

Sweeeeeeeeeet post!

Why thank you.

In some part is seems to be an attempt to communicate exactly what you are thinking, even if it means discussion suspicion of nearly everyone, which is something I've tried to do, I think it's important that we keep a robust dialog with each other addressing mistrust, even slight.

Yup, thats exactly it. In fact, something to take away with you Caliban, is that in mafia you should ALWAYS address your suspicions, no matter how slight they seem. The first thing it does is alert the rest of the town to what you're thinking. The second thing is start discussion. The third is puts pressure on people. Talk is all you have during the day, so you should use it as much as possible.

I'm not too convinced by your statistical use of 'scum-tells' and 'town-tells'

Don't worry, its not like I just went 7, 4, 3 therefore scum scum town. I actually reviewed it all. and thus put the Note at the end "Note: the scoreboard is not definitive as many of the active players have more, or as many, scumtells as the inactive players, but the idea is there.".

Also, JD only had 4 scumtells, but he's my number two scum atm (assuming SP comes up scum), so statistical data is not all it is.

Note: the scoreboard is not definitive as many of the active players have more, or as many, scumtells as the inactive players, but the idea is there. I would assume in any game which involves a deal of human behaviour, 'expect the unexpected' what's to stop the mafia, with an equal knowledge, to simply also identify these tells and mimic the town ones? [/quote](This is more theoretical then game related but...) Yup, this does happen, in fact, mafia is constantly evolving. Town tells become scumtells and etc. But one thing to remember is that scum will usually slip up somehow. Further Reading on the topic .

I don't think we can take these numbers as empirical data, however the comments themselves are of much more use,

Definatly! Again, look at the bit where i said SP and JD together, i was working off comments and not numbers. Numbers are such a small part of this game.

In response to my criticism; I've been trying to put any thoughts I have down in posts, if it appears wishy-washy then it only represents my initial indecision, which is more to do with lack of action to discuss rather than an attempt to gloss over anything.

I respect that, and I've put most of your scummy behaviour down to newbie. I did however, have to point it out.

I have made a few jokey posts also.

I enjoy a sense of humour in a game, many people will tell you to drop it. For the sake of fun, keep the humour, just don't let it interfere with the game

I'm not exactly sure what Laundering is (I checked the wiki - no dice) but if you mean trying to keep myself looking innocent by not committing to suspicion then I'm just trying to avoid making a mistake by pushing through a lynch on the back of what, could be, quite light suspicion.

Laundering is my own term (if I'm going to keep using it, I should wiki it!). You know when money is passed around and "Laundered" it comes back to the crims clean. Thats essentially what it is, Pointing the finger and then being non-commital enought that you can say "But I wasn't REALLY pushing the wagon" when they come up town (its a scum tactic).

I'm interested in what you said about voting to -2, in a game with 2 scum that means they can quick lynch, however this seems like it would put much more pressure on vote 3 & 4 than vote 2, something I hadn't really thought about until now is that vote 2 at this stage is a very provocative statement, we currently have two people at -2.

-2 is fantastic, the earlier the better. You remember being stuck in that jokey-random vote stage? Well, a -2 gets everyone out of that really easily. And they're fantastic right. Lets say there are seven players in a game. Player A votes Player B. Player C votes Player B as a well, includes a joke. Player D and E (both scum) jump on and kill Player B. Now what do you think will happen tomorrow, the town will kill Player E for obviously being scum and Player D will be under so much scruitiny that they'd be lynched easily if a cop was there to check him out. The town wins. -2 is a very Pro-town move.

Sir Tornado, I think, unfairly since he's suffering from his previous incarnations’ lurkiness.

Unfortunatly, its a neccasary evil in the game, remember they both had the same Role PM. Although I didn't use lurking as an actual argument against him. I mentioned it though.

Arvetis, I'm also not convinced about these votes either, Jdodge's vote has been shown to have less foundation than the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

I don't care if you're the scummiest, worst player ever, I want you in my next game for comments like this

Although be warned sonny Jim; I still harbour a small kernel of mistrust that your post is an expansive pro-town white elephant and a scum ploy.

Third time you've used sonny jim I know it seems excessive, but I just replaced in to this game

And at the end, some more action. Just (again theoretical) the balance between neccassary action as a townie and scummy eagerness to lynch is fine, and you will cross it more than once.

Geez, that post was mostly newbie coaching (I deserve IC status for that).

[Arvetis]

I haven't read through your entire M-M-M-MEGAPOSTS yet oman, but I need to point out that the "son of a witch" thing was not an aggressive response, it was a Shakespeare joke based on Caliban's name.

Also, you seem to be reading a lot of emotion into my posts where I intended none. For example, the post you label as "defensive" is just a reply addressing the point he brought up. I don't think it's safe to assume that the post I was responding to was entirely joking. You label me as "aggressive." I would disagree with that - I just respond to anything thrown at me.

[Arvetis]

I think at this point it's safe to

unvote: Caliban

and

Vote: JDodge

.

And Oman, the reason I didn't do that earlier isn't "fake reluctance." What the heck is that even supposed to mean? I was giving him a chance to respond before I changed my vote. In a game where there have been several bandwagon attempts already, I think it's a good idea for us to discuss our votes before we go messing around with them, don't you?

[Oman]

but I need to point out that the "son of a witch" thing was not an aggressive response, it was a Shakespeare joke based on Caliban's name

*HEADPALM* Of course. I'm sorry I missed that!

lso, you seem to be reading a lot of emotion into my posts where I intended none. For example, the post you label as "defensive" is just a reply addressing the point he brought up. I don't think it's safe to assume that the post I was responding to was entirely joking. You label me as "aggressive." I would disagree with that - I just respond to anything thrown at me.

I'm sorry, I wrote that as the posts felt to me when I read them. If I misinterpreted I appolgise, thats for telling me.

I didn't do that earlier isn't "fake reluctance." What the heck is that even supposed to mean?

Scum will often fake emotions. Two of which are insecurity and reluctance. I.e. "Lets not lynch Player B, I'm not yet sure he's scum."

I think it's a good idea for us to discuss our votes before we go messing around with them, don't you?

Not always. Sometimes its better to just throw a vote on. For example: Post 106 you said JD was scummy to you. You didn't ask him any questions, and you moved on. Now, in THIS case a vote would have been much better. JD had no votes, and you weren't voting him sending the message "Don't worry, you're not THAT scummy", whereas a vote from you, maybe prompting another puts him at -2 which would make him talk about it very quickly. Even 1 vote is better than 0 when you're trying to put pressure on someone.

Remember, in this game all you have to force slip-ups is pressure, use it. That isn't to say you should just throw it around at anything that moves.

Arvetis: What is your position on Silver Pheonix?