Mafia 68: Ork - Game over!

[Guardian]

Well Scum know only one role excusively, but the risk of one scum sailing to endgame on that is too high for my tastes.... I disagree strongly with the idea of a massclaim.

I must mention -- if
one power role sails to the
end, we will deal then....

Must I break my love
-ly PR to explain this
to y'all? It's so obv.

[Kinetic]

Hmm I see Guardian's point. Mafia have no choice but to claim town if we claim now... If they claim power and they are not dead soon then we know they are false claiming. Even their "safe claim" is useless.

That being said I still don't agree with a mass claim. I think we need to target claim at this point and maybe save mass claim for later. If someone claims power then we'll let them slide, but if they don't die we'll need to check them out. And if someone claims vanilla... that's pretty much a insta-hammer...

Guardian, if we did mass claim, who would you choose to claim first?

[ShadowLurker]

The I WANT MORE BANDWAGONING Vote Count

Guardian

(3) - Urzassedatives, Sefer, CoolBot

Urzassedatives

(2) - Guardian, IH

Kinetic

(1) - Mastermind of Sin

Mert

(1) - scotmany12

Not Voting

(9) - Pie_is_good, Khelvaster, Gorrad, Mert, Haut Boy, Yosarian2, spectrumvoid, Kinetic, curiouskarmadog

With 16 alive, it is 9 to lynch!

[Kinetic]

Vote:Urzassedatives

Bandwagoning because the mod said so.

[Gorrad]

While I still do not like a mass say,
Inspector first would be a good play
He could help us out
On who we should doubt
And not give too much away

Lymricks are harder with rhyme
Than a haiku that deals with time
So cut me some slack
If my rhymes kinda lack
It could be worse, I could do mime!

[Gorrad]

Whoops, I did not add this in
I'm going to

Vote: Guardian

I don't like his strat
And I smell a rat
Plus, the mod wants more bandwagonin'.

[Guardian]

Hmm I see Guardian's point. Mafia have no choice but to claim town if we claim now... If they claim power and they are not dead soon then we know they are false claiming. Even their "safe claim" is useless.

This is exactly why we should mass claim today. I am not particular if it is now or later in the day, but it needs to be done.

That being said I still don't agree with a mass claim. I think we need to target claim at this point and maybe save mass claim for later. If someone claims power then we'll let them slide, but if they don't die we'll need to check them out. And if someone claims vanilla... that's pretty much a insta-hammer...

I disagree for the reasons you yourself laid out....

Guardian, if we did mass claim, who would you choose to claim first?

I would be happy to go first -- no one is particularly scummy yet this day -- and we should do it popcorn style -- I claim, then pick someone to claim. They claim and pick, etc. I will only start it if everyone commits to claiming though.


Gorrad... mass claim = win here, I am like 90% sure of this .

[scotmany12]

even if we massclaim, we still have to pick the right town claims to lynch. Assuming the doctor claims town, there will be 10 town claims, 4 of them being scum. 2 out of 5 chance in catching scum. Not good chances there.

[Guardian]

even if we massclaim, we still have to pick the right town claims to lynch. Assuming the doctor claims town, there will be 10 town claims, 4 of them being scum. 2 out of 5 chance in catching scum. Not good chances there.

Right now the chances
are 4 of 16 -- 1 in 4.
2 in 5 much better.

Plus, there are loads of benefits as I outlined...

[Guardian]

I will spoon feed you guys if needed -- mass claim

is

obviously the right play here, I think. Mass claim loses almost nothing (maybe we lose more fringe power roles, like mason vig and priest) and gains tremendously -- we get a few confirmed townies, narrow down our field of possible scum, and we have a lynch AND a cop investigation every night to try and find scum.

And the scum can't try and nightkill the doc, as they will hit townies most likely, eliminating potential scum. So, assuming the doctor doesn't screw things up terribly, we have confirmed townies, our scum hunting skills, and a unNK able cop.

Mass claim basically screws the scum over in this game. I don't see how we possibly want to not employ it.

[Guardian]

Oh, and until the vig is killed, we have a vig to direct every night, like a bonus lynch. If the scum for some reason don't kill the vig, we can almost outrace the scum -- with a lynch and vig kill every day opposite their one night kill, we can kill off possible scum faster than they can kill confirmed townies.

Mason, Governor, and priest are largely useless besides their claim-ability, in that order. Getting those three players as confirmed townies = win. The cop should and will draw doc protection, the doc will claim town, and the vig is useful... maybe the vig should consider claiming town day one and claiming the truth day two. I'd say not though -- the vig getting killed night one sucks, but being confirmed is great .

Mass claim for the win.


Do you all agree, and I can go back to haiku now?

[Kinetic]

As much as I want to say Guardian is wrong.......

Damn it he's right.

>>

Begin the mass claim proceedings...

However if the mafia HAVE killed the doctor, we're screwed.

[curiouskarmadog]

Do you all agree, and I can go back to haiku now?

please sweet god, dont

[Guardian]

Do you all agree, and I can go back to haiku now?

please sweet god, dont

Do you agree with
mass claim? Haiku is an art
form -- very freeing.

[CoolBot]

I'm not convinced yet. If the scum don't play ball and end up counter claiming a power role, we'd have to lynch both of them to be sure we get the scum. So if all three goons do this, we lose our vig, inspector, & priest and leave the GF hiding among the townies.

[CoolBot]

Guardian, the haiku thing is extremely annoying. I really wish you'd drop it. Same with the limericks with Gorrad.

[Guardian]

I'm not convinced yet. If the scum don't play ball and end up counter claiming a power role, we'd have to lynch both of them to be sure we get the scum.

So if all three goons do this, we lose our vig, inspector, & priest and leave the GF hiding among the townies

.

First, this would be good
result. Second, why do you give
scum free ideas? Your team?

[curiouskarmadog]

Do you all agree, and I can go back to haiku now?

please sweet god, dont

Do you agree with
mass claim? Haiku is an art
form -- very freeing.

I actually have not been in enough of these games to make a good judgement call. My intial reaction is that is a horrible idea...wouldnt all mafia just claim vanilla town? What happens if all of the mafia claim vanilla town? What should the Doc (and other town power roles) claim? What if the Doc is already dead? Wont a mass claim provide more information to mafia than the town?

Never seen a mass claim Day 1 before in this type of game...so not sure what the out come will be.

[IH]

NO DO NOT MASS CLAIM DAMMIT. Not yet anyways.

That one unconfirmed role is what throws a kink in things.

If it's a townie there will be one unaccounted townie
If it's a power role, there will be one unaccounted power role.

Not only that, but scum are likely to claim a mix, townie and power roles, if we continue to mislynch, with continued mis vig kills (possibly on power roles).
Odds are this is a bad idea.

You continue to seem to press like we

have

to massclaim later, but we

don't

The only way I could see a massclaim in the positive is to stop scum from claiming it to save themselves from a lynch.

I disagree with it being used to find scum. If we have everyoe claim to stop scum from saving themselves from a lynch, we have one advantage. With roles being nightkilled, we can confirm which person was a town power role, aka town, but not scum fake claiming.

So I think in all actuality. A massclaim would be useful.... but I'm unsure how much weight we could actually put into it for finding scum (Especially if the scum have killed a power role. What will likely happen is 3 scum townie claims, and 1 uncounterclamed power role (which would be the godfather))

[Kinetic]

I'm not convinced yet. If the scum don't play ball and end up counter claiming a power role, we'd have to lynch both of them to be sure we get the scum. So if all three goons do this, we lose our vig, inspector, & priest and leave the GF hiding among the townies.

Umm, no I actually

HOPE

the mafia would counter claim. In that case, that role is safe from NKs because if one of them is NKed by anyone but the Vig we can assume that the Mafia killed the real power role and we insta-lynch the counter claimer. Heck, even if the Mafia WIFOM it and kill their own goon to get us to lynch the power role, we STILL win since they had to kill their own goon.

Plus, if the counter claim we don't have to lynch right away. The Governor can basically prove his role, so there isn't any trouble if someone counter claims him. Mason can claim townie, he just needs to find a town power role that he thinks is not going to die and befriend him, then claim the next day and the person he befriended can confirm him. Vig can claim and then prove it the next night with a town targeted kill. If multiple people claim we just tell them to target different people and whoever is alive, that vig is faking it. Russian Roulette VIG STYLE.

Angel should claim townie and protect the Inspector if possible. Lyncher should claim Lyncher and their target. That way we have a confirmed Lyncher and a confirmed townie. Again, if a mafia counter claims, than this plays into our hands since we know that one of them must be mafia. Since Lyncher can win with the town, he won't lose the game by doing this.

Priest, unfortunately, will most likely be NKed. So if someone counter-claims him and he doesn't die, well then lucky him.

So the best case scenario we have is:
10 claimed townies, 3 are goons, one is angel, one is mason.
Confirmed Lyncher Target
Confirmed Governor
Confirmed Inspector
Confirmed Priest
Confirmed Lyncher

The Inspector and Priest

must

claim first and claim their first night targets. That way they can be confirmed. If mafia try to hide in a power role, then in 2-3 nights we'll pretty much have them dead to rights if they're not dead.

[Kinetic]

EBWOP:

My math sux0rs:
11 claimed townies: 4 townies, 1 miller, 3 goons, 1 angel, 1 mason, 1 godfather
Confirmed Lyncher Target
Confirmed Governor
Confirmed Inspector
Confirmed Priest
Confirmed Lyncher

[Guardian]

EBWOP:

My math sux0rs:
11 claimed townies: 4 townies, 1 miller, 3 goons, 1 angel, 1 mason, 1 godfather
Confirmed Lyncher Target
Confirmed Governor
Confirmed Inspector
Confirmed Priest
Confirmed Lyncher

I find it unlike
-ly that lyncher will tell us
target. But rest good .


Pie, the one dead town
will become two and three etc.
unless we claim now.

Also, pie, when you
oppose mass claim, I can't help
finding it scummy.


Lastly, ALL players:

STOP giving scum advice

on
how to mass claim... RLY!

[Guardian]

IH = pie. Their names are both short. .

[Mastermind of Sin]

If we do not mass claim today, I will not support a mass claim at all in the future. With only one unknown role and the majority of the town being townies (5 townies and a miller), we have a good chance that their random kill didn't hit a power role. This is our only chance to mass claim, and I agree wholeheartedly with Guardian's arguments. Anyone who is trying to fight this is either retarded or scum, as far as I'm concerned. That's how obvious a mass claim is, if you've been paying attention.

With everyone claimed, the mafia lose the advantage of having their kill not revealed. When someone dies and their role is not revealed, we will know they are not mafia, and that they are the role they claimed to be, which completely nullifies the fact that the deaths aren't revealed. Having the devil already dead, if we take away the biggest advantage the scum have and force them to commit to a roleclaim on D1, we can force them into a corner and beat them into submission!

[curiouskarmadog]

OK so how do you and Guardian propose we start?

What happens if everyone does not want to mass claim?