Mafia 68: Ork - Game over!

[ShadowLurker]

With 16 alive, it is 9 to lynch!

Not Voting

(10) - Sefer, Pie_is_good, Khelvaster, Gorrad, Mert, Haut Boy, Yosarian2, spectrumvoid, Kinetic, curiouskarmadog

Mert

(1) - scotmany12

scotmany12

(1) - IH

Guardian

(1) - Urza's Sedatives

Kinetic

(1) - Mastermind of Sin

Urzassedatives

(2) - CoolBot, Guardian

The Reverse in Things Vote Count

[Sefer]

d16 = 1239826049

[Sefer]

Random Vote: Guardian

I think I see why Guardian wishes to mass claim; it forces scum to choose whether to counter a claim now; they'd either limit which people we'd need to look at by fake countering power roles or they'd have to claim townie. Since only they find out the role of whoever they kill, it could help stop them from claiming every power role they off.

On the other hand, it outs all our power roles so that they can pick them off at their leasure. Bad idea.

[Guardian]

Random Vote: Guardian

I think I see why Guardian wishes to mass claim; it forces scum to choose whether to counter a claim now; they'd either limit which people we'd need to look at by fake countering power roles or they'd have to claim townie. Since only they find out the role of whoever they kill, it could help stop them from claiming every power role they off.

On the other hand, it outs all our power roles so that they can pick them off at their leasure. Bad idea.

Yes; but doc won't claim
and we mass claim before the
day ends, not right now.

[Sefer]

If by "doc won't claim" you mean it claims with the townies (since one player not claiming wouldn't really help the secrecy bit), that would just mix the doc in with the group we'd be looking at to lynch: the actual townies and all the scum that claim townie, which will probably be most of them.

Also, I don't see how claiming right before the end of the day as opposed to now would help; the scum would still know who to target at night and we wouldn't get as much benefit from discussion before day ends.

[Guardian]

If by "doc won't claim"

you mean it claims with the townies

(since one player not claiming wouldn't really help the secrecy bit), that would just mix the doc in with the group we'd be looking at to lynch: the actual townies and all the scum that claim townie, which will probably be most of them.

Also, I don't

see how claiming right before the end of the day as opposed to now would help

; the scum would still know who to target at night and we wouldn't get as much benefit from discussion before day ends.

We make scummiest
claim first; Doc should not claim or
he is killed night one.

[Mastermind of Sin]

doc should claim townie. I would not necessarily look to lynch townies first. It would depend on what claims have been made. If there are some big counterclaims, I might look there for for the claim. With the devil dead, the mafia are already at a disadvantage. I say we mass claim now, since we won't find out the roles of the mafia kills. This way, there is only one role we won't know.

[Kinetic]

Guardian, could you drop the PR for a bit. Wouldn't claiming just help the scum to kill power roles?

[Guardian]

MoS is wise as our
vig is lucky. His reasons
for claim equal mine.


Eh, Kinetic, I am really enjoying the PR, but will drop it upon request. Sometimes I am too verbose in games and imprecise, and haikus are awesome, they will help me be more concentrated, and I didn't get to play in MMM (where you only post in haiku).

I promised myself, though, that if people requested/demanded I would drop the PR, at least for one post or whatnot.

Claiming will help the scum kill power roles. That is its only disadvantage.

It has many advantages:

• The doctor knows who to try and protect.
  
• The vig will know who not to kill, and other power roles will know who to target.
  
• If the scum get past the doctor and get a kill in, we know
  exactly
  what the role was that they hit, instead of leaving us guessing.
  
• We get a few, possibly as many as five, almost
  confirmed
  townies -- and some roles are confirmable upon counterclaim. I think almost all the power roles are as valuable or more valuable as confirmed townie as they are as whatever their ability does. The vigilante and cop are
  possibly
  but not necessarily exceptions.
  
• As Sefer said, this removes the mafia's ability to safe-claim the power roles they kill. If we are lucky and Zindaras was a townie or lyncher, the mafia will be only able to claim townie safely all game if we mass claim now.
  
• Mass claim is especially great with the Devil dead. The Priest is less counter-able, and the Devil can't hunt for specific roles.

I think the benefits greatly outweigh the one cost, and that we should mass claim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Indeed, having the devil dead is awesome. If the inspector and Priest both get a guilty and stork-aligned result, respectively, we've found the miller, another confirmed role.

In addition, this mass claim can really screw the scum over. If the lyncher claims now, but doesn't claim their target, we still can't stop them from winning. However, this will eliminate someone from our list of mafia suspects, so we can focus on catching the mafia. The lyncher will essentially get protection from the town for helping us catch mafia, so it's in their best interests to claim in the mass claim. This way, the mafia will be forced to counterclaim the lyncher, and we'll be able to figure out which one is mafia through various methods, including our power roles. Also, if a mafia claims lyncher, the real lyncher should counterclaim to expose them as mafia, so that we can lynch them.

[IH]

Wait...Why would you assume that it was the vig that killed the devil. This makes it seem awfully likely that you knew before hand which one the mafia targetted.


VOTE: GUARDIAN


Fer serious, explain yourself.

Scum Nightkills are unrevealed. Didn't you just criticize someone for not reading? = P

unvote, vote:Seds

Why is guardian talking in Haikus?

Guardian, I'm unsure why the mafia just wouldn't claim townie in hope the doc is lynched, with the Vig killing every night, and a townie lynched, how many days could we last? Also the preist is now a limited cop.

Not only that, but if a power role is dead now, the scum have a safe claim, since they are the only ones who know that role.

[Kinetic]

Guardian: What if the Mafia lynched the Doc just now? Wouldn't a mass claim be the absolute worst thing to do right now?

[Guardian]

Why is guardian talking in Haikus?

Guardian, I'm unsure why the mafia just wouldn't claim townie in hope the doc is lynched, with the Vig killing every night, and a townie lynched, how many days could we last? Also the preist is now a limited cop.

Not only that, but if a power role is dead now, the scum have a safe claim, since they are the only ones who know that role.

I use Haikus to
experiment, and for fun.
I agree with MoS....

[Kinetic]

EBWOP: >> What if they killed the doc, not lynched

[Gorrad]

Hmm, I really don't like mass claims. If a power role is counterclaimed, and the real fork is lynched, won't the scum get away scott free? No one but the mafia will know if the town chose correctly. You'd have to lynch both in order to be sure, and no one wants to lose a power role like that.

-Gorrad

[Guardian]

Guardian: What if the Mafia

killed

the Doc just now? Wouldn't a mass claim be the absolute worst thing to do right now?

No, and even if so,
the odds of that occurring
aren't significant.

[IH]

in fact

minor FoS

those suggesting a massclaim.

[Guardian]

Hmm, I really don't like mass claims. If a power role is counterclaimed, and the real fork is lynched, won't the scum get away scott free? No one but the mafia will know if the town chose correctly. You'd have to lynch both in order to be sure, and no one wants to lose a power role like that.

-Gorrad

In this setup, lynch

will

reveal the player's role --
your opinion change?

[Kinetic]

Ah, but only the mafia would know exactly the odds of that Guardian. That is what I think I'm getting at... If the mafia did hit the doc, only they would know that. Advocating a mass claim wouldn't hurt them at all. They could take out all of the power roles left in as little as four nights, leaving them with little to worry about in end game.

No, even if the doctor is around I think such a mass claim this early in the day is against the interests of the town. However the mafia hiding under power roles they kill is scary, annoying, I think if the mafia don't know who is investigated, if one of those people is killed later, and they try to impersonate them, we could catch them in that lie.

Vote: Agaisnt

mass claim at this time.

[Guardian]

Kinetic, the more
we wait, the more likely the
scum will kill power .

[Gorrad]

Hmm, I really don't like mass claims. If a power role is counterclaimed, and the real fork is lynched, won't the scum get away scott free? No one but the mafia will know if the town chose correctly. You'd have to lynch both in order to be sure, and no one wants to lose a power role like that.

-Gorrad

In this setup, lynch

will

reveal the player's role --
your opinion change?

Can you please elaborate?
Some think your logic's first-rate
But I don't get your zeal
That the role will reveal
And I don't want to bet the town's fate.

[CoolBot]

Mass claim is a bad idea, especially since scum know the roles of dead and the town doesn't. Since he's pushing it so hard, and the damned haikus,

unvote: Urzassedatives
vote: Guardian

[IH]

Well Scum know only one role excusively, but the risk of one scum sailing to endgame on that is too high for my tastes.... I disagree strongly with the idea of a massclaim.

[IH]

EBWOP:One role excusively day per night phase.

[Guardian]

Mass claim is a bad idea, especially since scum know the roles of dead and the town doesn't. Since he's pushing it so hard, and the damned haikus,

unvote: Urzassedatives
vote: Guardian

Scum know

one

role now,
but every night we wait one

more

.
Better to act

now

!