Mini 458 - Game over!

[Kate]

I do't think we should really go after the lurkers, but I don't like mole's dissapearence. Answering a prod but still not saying anything is really wierd and I don't find Num scummy for wanting to go after him.

We've lost two of our more active players, both of whom were pro-town. I believe we should take a closer look at our lurkers.

Dylan jumped on almost every major wagon, but he was not on CKD's lynch. Coincidence?

I have a few questions for MSG. Looking through your posts, I noticed that you haven't had a vote on anyone since you unvoted Dylan over a month ago. Why? Your last post was a day before the deadline was announced, and you said you were just back from vacation, and promised to catch up. Why didn't you contribute? How come you could respond to a PM during a 64-hour night, but you didn't post in the thead at all during the 1-week space before the deadline?

I'd like to know what ThAdmiral has to say about Adel, now that CKD has been lynched and came up pro-town. I never quite understood the reasoning behind, "If adel is lynched and comes up town I will go after ckd." Does he now conclude that Adel must be scum?

Adel, could you do another diagram like you did in 307 showing all the votes of D1? I know it would be a lot of work, but you say you like doing it, and I think a retrospective of the D1 votes would be very helpful.

So, you're asking questions instead of offering analysis, and advocating a lurker hunt to boot? That's seriously scummy. Vote: Num7

What's wrog with asking questions? Aren't you supposed to ask questions in this game? I'm pretty sure someone told me I was anti-town for not asking questions.
Oh, and Happy Birthday Tar!

[ThAdmiral]

@ dylan: and still think you're scum too

@ tar: I agree that going lurker-hunting with as much information that we have is suspicious, but msg seems to be purposefully staying in the shadows for whatever reason. I would also like to hear what he has to say.

@ kate:

I actually never voted him. All I said was that I thought he was scummy and a good lynch for day one.

This to me is even more scummy than voting for him would have been.

Oh and -
@ crub: If your cow says anything again we now know to ignore it.

[pickemgenius]

. I think Num and Pickem should probably be looked at with the most scrutiny (especially as Num is now trying desperately to lurker hunt rather than use the info at hand)

FOS: Numenorean7, Pickemgenius

While I have a few minutes (and internet for that matter) I started looking at both Adel's and CKD's posts at about 12:45 a.m. (my time CST), I looked over both of them taking mental notes(and started packing, this trip was seriously last minute.), then looked over them again and started typing down stuff. In all my post was made at about 2:23 a.m. CST. I didn't preview my post to see if any new posts were made.

[Crub]

@Admiral, At least I've got enough steak to last me for the rest of this game.

[Numenorean7]

I don't see what the big deal is with my "lurker hunt".
I don't like the way MSG responded to his prod. It puts his semi-active/lurking play in a bad light. I'd like a little pressure in that direction.
Dylan's behavior is inexcusable. If everyone played like he does, we would be better off rolling dice to decide the outcome of the game. It would sure be quicker. Unless Dylan undergoes a playstyle change along the lines of Ragnarok, I think he should be replaced.
I am not advocating a lurker lynch. Neither am I attempting to ignore or distract from day 1. In fact, I am in the middle of a partial re-read, and I'll post another player-by-player analysis when I'm done.

@Admiral, At least I've got enough steak to last me for the rest of this game.

You'd better check that steak for BSE (Bovine Scumiform Encephalopathy).

[NabakovNabakov]

@Pickem: Excuses, excuses, excuses. I don't like the mathematical aspect of the post in which you voted for him (CKD scumtells > Adel scumtells, therefore CKD=Scum), it seemed like you were trying to hide behind it.

@Num: It seems to me like the Dylan bashing in that last post was just widening the lurker hunt. Yes, it is scummy that MSG didn't post, but there's nothing we can do about that until he comes back or is replaced, so let's focus on more pressing matters. Your vote on MSG is, IMO, a cop out.

[Kate]

@ kate:

I actually never voted him. All I said was that I thought he was scummy and a good lynch for day one.

This to me is even more scummy than voting for him would have been.

So i was scummy if I did vote him, but now I'm scummy because I didn't? What's wrong with saying I thought he was scummy? I'm also pretty sure he was at -1 anyway, and would be lynched at the deadline, so me voting him would only lynch him sooner.

[NabakovNabakov]

You were scummy because you pushed for his lynch without voting him, not just because you didn't vote him. I noticed this too, but I decided to conduct a crusade on what we know. Scum could have pushed the wagon, but it's much more likely that scum hopped.

Also, we were essentially at deadline with one player 4 votes (I think) ahead of all others, the hammer was insignificant.

[Adel]

Scum could have pushed the wagon, but it's much more likely that scum hopped.

QFT... however would the last players be more likely to be scum than the middle players on the wagon? I'm not sure.

Do the rest of you really think it would help if I finish my graphic showing all of the voting and FOS's from day 1? It is freaking tedious to do that many pages, and there is so much information that I'm not sure that it will tell us anything. I think it would work better if I made an animation from it, where each few frames is a post. 4 posts/sec would make a 4 min animation. Too long? It wouldn't be much more tedious than the graphic, and I think it would work better to communicate what happened yesterday.

[NabakovNabakov]

Depends... does the end product look like a kalidescope?

I would be all for an animation, but it might be a pain to have to wait 4 minutes if you miss something.

[Adel]

nah, a mepg would let people hit pause, ff, rewind, and click to where in the animation to skip to.

I think it would look a little like a kalidescope. It depends on how much I make the avatars move around as the day progresses.

[pickemgenius]

@Pickem: Excuses, excuses, excuses. I don't like the mathematical aspect of the post in which you voted for him (CKD scumtells > Adel scumtells, therefore CKD=Scum), it seemed like you were trying to hide behind it.

I'm sorry I learned 10 hours before the plane left that I'd be going to Hawaii.

I'm also sorry I think more scumtells=more likely to be scum...

[Numenorean7]

@Num: It seems to me like the Dylan bashing in that last post was just widening the lurker hunt. Yes, it is scummy that MSG didn't post, but there's nothing we can do about that until he comes back or is replaced, so let's focus on more pressing matters. Your vote on MSG is, IMO, a cop out.

So MSG is scummy, but voting him for it is not OK? We have to forget he exists until he comes back or is replaced? I suppose an attempt to broaden discussion and make sure no one is forgotten could be seen as an attempt to distract the town. But it goes both ways: an attempt to keep the town in focus could actually be an attempt to keep certain players out of the limelight...

This

could

be a scumtell, but I think it's much more likely a playstyle difference between the two of us. How to deal with lurkers and inactives is one of those unsolved issues. Even the best players disagree. So how about I go on pointing out people I think are lying low, and you go on focusing on "more important matters". Sound good?

[NabakovNabakov]

^^ I suppose it may be more of a playstyle difference, but I've never really seen the point in voting an inactive. If they're around, they'll post when you mention them (or get replaced), if they aren't, voting them solves nothing.

Additionally, I think I'm throwing a pretty wide net here. I'm mainly suspicious of you and Pickem (especially as Pickem continues to invoke RL as his primary defense). I also don't like Kate's push-but-no-vote, and while I realize he voted mainly out of self-preservation, I'm still keeping an eye on ThAdmiral. I think you're just critisizing my focus because it happens to include you.

@Pickem: I realize more scumtells=more likely to be scum, but when you make everything concrete like you did, it takes a lot of the responsibility out of your hands. You aren't building a case or making a real decision, you're just tallying scumtells (already very subjective to begin with), and voting based on who got the "highest score."

[Kate]

You were scummy because you pushed for his lynch without voting him, not just because you didn't vote him.

When people push a lynch and don't vote, its usually so they can say they never really lynchd them and can't be blamed for their death. However, I'm not saying I didn't want him lynched, I agreed with everyone else that he was the best choice of a lynch, but didn't see a point in voting him if he was at L-1

[Per]

Molestargazer will be replaced.

I have a candidate to take the job... it's Mastermind of Sin. He hasn't received his cop investigation result.

Objections may be sent to me by PM within, say 45 hours (suits me better than the usual 48 ).

[Adel]

I'm looking forward to MoS replacing msg. I hate how active players are often the first to be nk'd while lurkers usually slip on through to day 3 and beyond.

[NabakovNabakov]

Anyone want to put bets down on his first post being "I told you so"?

I don't have any objections per-se, but I am going to find it difficult telling the difference between the MoS of D1, and the MoS of D2 (and we should all hold that difference in mind)

[Adel]

On the other hand, we now know that MoS of yesterday was town, and so if he is town again we not only get a really strong player back into the game (I am still convinced of MoS prowess, even if I did use it against him incorrectly yesterday) but we also get to find out who he investigated (but sadly not the result) and probably quite a few other insights.

[Adel]

In other words, I'm happy to take the 2:3 odds of him being town.

[Numenorean7]

On the other hand, we now know that MoS of yesterday was town, and so if he is town again we not only get a really strong player back into the game (I am still convinced of MoS prowess, even if I did use it against him incorrectly yesterday) but we also get to find out who he investigated (but sadly not the result) and probably quite a few other insights.

So you think MoS is a strong pro-town player, despite the fact that he pushed for your lynch. Are you saying he was right about you?

[Adel]

On the other hand, we now know that MoS of yesterday was town, and so if he is town again we not only get a really strong player back into the game (I am still convinced of MoS prowess, even if I did use it against him incorrectly yesterday) but we also get to find out who he investigated (but sadly not the result) and probably quite a few other insights.

So you think MoS is a strong pro-town player, despite the fact that he pushed for your lynch. Are you saying he was right about you?

And I wouldn't be too surprised if he continued to push for my lynch and turned out to be scum a second time. It is perfectly conceivable to me that he would be dead wrong about me yet still be a valuable asset to the town. Since he was the cop, I'm sure he had suspicions that he didn't give voice to (waiting for the investigation). I want to know what they were. Also, I wasn't lynched yesterday, so I suspect that he didn't really want to lynch me.

[Crub]

And I wouldn't be too surprised if he continued to push for my lynch and turned out to be scum a second time. It is perfectly conceivable to me that he would be dead wrong about me yet still be a valuable asset to the town. Since he was the cop, I'm sure he had suspicions that he didn't give voice to (waiting for the investigation). I want to know what they were. Also, I wasn't lynched yesterday, so I suspect that he didn't really want to lynch me.

Is anyone else raising their eyebrow at this post?

[Numenorean7]

Is anyone else raising their eyebrow at this post?

I am, for one. She seems to be taking it for granted that getting MoS back would be wonderful. I am not a big fan of dead players replacing back in under any circumstances, and I don't like MoS's playstyle.

It is perfectly conceivable to me that he would be dead wrong about me yet still be a valuable asset to the town.

If he was wrong about you, what did he do D1 that was a "valuable asset to the town"?

I wasn't lynched yesterday, so I suspect that he didn't really want to lynch me.

There you go attributing god-like powers again. Just because you are good at getting someone lynched (or at least you claim to be), doesn't mean everyone is.

[Adel]

Let me put it another way then, do you really think that Per will be able to get another decent player to replace in? I think we got luck with Num7 and NabNab, but we are at 46 pages, which is way over 300 printed pages. Any replacement player would need to read a novel's worth of words just to have read every word, let alone have some original insight. Maybe Jalyn would be a good replacement, but I can't think of anyone else.