In post 0, N wrote:Update 5 July
Some more (minor) changes have been made to the guidelines. Again, this only affects any games that have not begun design.
- Any new roles (i.e., not on the wiki) should flip with their full role pm (redactions permitted)
- Rolecops investigating a new role (i.e., one not on the wiki) should receive the full role pm (minus alignment, redactions permitted) as their result
- Neapolitan is considered a Normal role
- Millers can only be Town-aligned
New Normal Guidelines - April 2017 update!
-
-
N Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8539
- Joined: August 2, 2012
I changed things again!!
-
-
SleepyKrew he/himSnark Attackhe/him
- Snark Attack
- Snark Attack
- Posts: 15746
- Joined: April 27, 2011
- Pronoun: he/him
- Location: quack
-
-
vonflare doot
- doot
- doot
- Posts: 3093
- Joined: January 1, 2014
- Location: Blue Gatorade Factory
But hider isn't.
I've never evenheardof that role.THIS POST IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.-
-
Ether ♀Lyrical Rampage♀
- Lyrical Rampage
- Lyrical Rampage
- Posts: 4790
- Joined: July 24, 2006
- Pronoun: ♀
- Location: New Jersey
Yeah, we should really bring hiders back. They were pretty unambiguous when I was around? A bit complicated, but the exact same mechanics every time. The weird "every role that targets the person you're hiding with also targets you" thing came later.
Neapolitans are a new name for an old role, which were left orphaned when Vanilla Cop was standardized to mean something else. You should use a lot of them!As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder andLOUDER-
-
pisskop Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 31779
- Joined: November 14, 2013
I like hider. Even if you have to end up adding the weak part of it.beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.-
-
Ether ♀Lyrical Rampage♀
- Lyrical Rampage
- Lyrical Rampage
- Posts: 4790
- Joined: July 24, 2006
- Pronoun: ♀
- Location: New Jersey
Man, the weak part is thebestpart of hiders.
Really, the weak modifier's pretty interesting in general, and it's a shame it's not used as much anymore. It's a nice unique approach to investigative roles.As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder andLOUDER-
-
mastin2 The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: October 8, 2009
- Location: Replacement Alley
Yeah, the problem with hiders became that no matter what standard used to exist, it had long-since been lost. It wasn't one or two common iterations; basically every hider was different from the last since there are like (I think) at least four if not five or six common ways for the role to be interpreted by current site usage and none of them were agreed on as being "right". That, plus the "weird" interactions = why they were removed, but I'm in favor of bringing back a standardized version.In post 178, Ether wrote:Yeah, we should really bring hiders back. They were pretty unambiguous when I was around? A bit complicated, but the exact same mechanics every time. The weird "every role that targets the person you're hiding with also targets you" thing came later.
My/mykonian's proposal was as such:
If they hide behind someone, it counts as a commute, unless the person they're hiding behind is nightkilled, in which case, they die.
This loses the most interesting part of the role, the weak modifier, but the weak modifier is currently considered Normal (at least I'm pretty sure we voted it Normal), so if someone wantsthatversion of the Hider (AKA, the actually cool version that most people generally think of), inside a Normal, all they have to do is tack on the 'Weak' modifier, and bam, you've got it.My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi, 13p Mini Theme sequel to Gistou, is in design and could use reviewers!-
-
Faraday ...should I be here?
- ...should I be here?
- ...should I be here?
- Posts: 12126
- Joined: March 29, 2009
- Location: Ireland
In post 178, Ether wrote:Yeah, we should really bring hiders back.
Nahare you thinking of me when you're with somebody else?-
-
Ether ♀Lyrical Rampage♀
- Lyrical Rampage
- Lyrical Rampage
- Posts: 4790
- Joined: July 24, 2006
- Pronoun: ♀
- Location: New Jersey
I wouldn't want the commute to work, unless the hider can still be countered and safely killed by a mafia roleblocker.
I...don't think I'm a fan of decoupling the hider from the weak aspect. It's fine in theory, but in practice, the weak modifier is used very rarely, and with almost no connection to the role it was historically attached to. I'd rather just have the redundancy than explain the whole history of the role to every single mod who wants to use a hider, especially five years from now. I'd wantnotbeing weak to be a very rare exception if it happens at all, and I don't think there's a way to do that while making Weakness something mods choose to tack on separately.As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder andLOUDER-
-
chamber Cases are scummy
- Cases are scummy
- Cases are scummy
- Posts: 10703
- Joined: November 20, 2005
-
-
StrangerCoug He/HimDoes not ComputeHe/Him
- Does not Compute
- Does not Compute
- Posts: 12457
- Joined: May 6, 2008
- Pronoun: He/Him
- Location: San Antonio, Texas
Solution to the problem: Take Mastin's ideaSTRANGERCOUG: Stranger Than You!
Current avatar by PurryFurry of FurAffinity.
What Were You Thinking XV! is in progress.-
-
vonflare doot
- doot
- doot
- Posts: 3093
- Joined: January 1, 2014
- Location: Blue Gatorade Factory
In post 181, mastin2 wrote:
Yeah, the problem with hiders became that no matter what standard used to exist, it had long-since been lost. It wasn't one or two common iterations; basically every hider was different from the last since there are like (I think) at least four if not five or six common ways for the role to be interpreted by current site usage and none of them were agreed on as being "right". That, plus the "weird" interactions = why they were removed, but I'm in favor of bringing back a standardized version.In post 178, Ether wrote:Yeah, we should really bring hiders back. They were pretty unambiguous when I was around? A bit complicated, but the exact same mechanics every time. The weird "every role that targets the person you're hiding with also targets you" thing came later.
My/mykonian's proposal was as such:
If they hide behind someone, it counts as a commute, unless the person they're hiding behind is nightkilled, in which case, they die.
This loses the most interesting part of the role, the weak modifier, but the weak modifier is currently considered Normal (at least I'm pretty sure we voted it Normal), so if someone wantsthatversion of the Hider (AKA, the actually cool version that most people generally think of), inside a Normal, all they have to do is tack on the 'Weak' modifier, and bam, you've got it.
I'm behind this suggestion 100%THIS POST IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.-
-
FakeGod Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Posts: 9680
- Joined: March 17, 2010
- Location: Bad Player Jail
In post 175, N wrote:I changed things again!!
In post 0, N wrote:Update 5 July
Some more (minor) changes have been made to the guidelines. Again, this only affects any games that have not begun design.
- Any new roles (i.e., not on the wiki) should flip with their full role pm (redactions permitted)
- Rolecops investigating a new role (i.e., one not on the wiki) should receive the full role pm (minus alignment, redactions permitted) as their result
- Neapolitan is considered a Normal role
- Millers can only be Town-aligned
Good work.
Is it possible to have all-scum neighborhood in a Normal game?
disclaimer: I'm not in any games right now and I swear I'm not trying to Reinoe you.My favorite site mod is Zor Tester.
I have Brandi's autograph! I bet you're jealous.
Send me a PM if you want to replace in!-
-
Ether ♀Lyrical Rampage♀
- Lyrical Rampage
- Lyrical Rampage
- Posts: 4790
- Joined: July 24, 2006
- Pronoun: ♀
- Location: New Jersey
I think that depends on the reviewers you get. Personally, I really dislike the idea that scum can get wrongly confirmed as innocent because the town didn't outguess the mod hard enough. In other cases there are good reasons to give the scum abilities that would normally go to town, but an all-scum set of neighbors...that seems like a thing that exists 100% to mess with people's heads, which is iffy.
In a semiopen setup you have more room to clarify things like that. If you specifically say beforehand that any and all neighbors could be scum, and the whole town can see it, then that would be kind of tacky but I wouldn't object.As I move my vote
Towards your wagon, town is taking note
It fills my head up and gets louder andLOUDER-
-
FakeGod Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Posts: 9680
- Joined: March 17, 2010
- Location: Bad Player Jail
I mean, it's definitely against the spirit of the game, and I don't recommend doing such a thing.
I want to know if it's banned explicitly in Normal games.My favorite site mod is Zor Tester.
I have Brandi's autograph! I bet you're jealous.
Send me a PM if you want to replace in!-
-
Ether ♀Lyrical Rampage♀
- Lyrical Rampage
- Lyrical Rampage
- Posts: 4790
- Joined: July 24, 2006
- Pronoun: ♀
- Location: New Jersey
-
-
FakeGod Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Seven-Colored Puppeteer
- Posts: 9680
- Joined: March 17, 2010
- Location: Bad Player Jail
Wait, I'm getting this strange feeling that you belong to the NRG from the gist of your posts.My favorite site mod is Zor Tester.
I have Brandi's autograph! I bet you're jealous.
Send me a PM if you want to replace in!-
-
Psyche he/theySurvivorhe/they
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10901
- Joined: April 28, 2011
- Pronoun: he/they
-
-
AngryPidgeon Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Glenn Peck
- Posts: 18863
- Joined: June 17, 2012
- Location: a Zulfy thread
-
-
Marquis Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 11342
- Joined: June 23, 2013
- Location: EST (–5)
In post 193, AngryPidgeon wrote:I don't recall seeing more than 1 variant of hider ever though.
this is pretty much my experience, off-site as well
if it was ever anything other than the "hidecommute behind target, die if they're scum or killed" then there were explicit modifiers in place to note that
i agree with hiders not being explicitly normal in the sense that each one is an incredibly specific/kind of convoluted combination of normal roles, but as for not normal due to hider variations i don't recall anyone thinking it worked otherwise in the past ~2 yearslink in bio-
-
Cheery Dog Kayak
- Kayak
- Kayak
- Posts: 8039
- Joined: June 30, 2012
- Location: OMG BALL!
I don't think I've actually played with a hider, but I know the wiki used to say all actions targeting their target would get results for the hider as well. I see this is moved to the variations now.
My only problem with the hider was how it and the tracker were allowed to behave with each other in the Hard Boiled setup.Holder of the Longest Continuous Weekly Mafiascum Post Record. 1 July 2012 - 16 Feb 2023
*It may be held by someone else if you discount the major downtime in 2012 and 2014, I'm not doing the research.-
-
pisskop Survivor
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 31779
- Joined: November 14, 2013
Is it standard to not inform BPs of the use of their vest/kill attempt upon them?beeboy - Everyone thought this game was made to troll pie but it was really made to troll pisskop.
Almost50 pisskop: Overall, that's a townie slot. Don't ask for specifics because with PK everything can be interpreted either way. It's probably WHEN he says/does things that matter, so it's more of a matter of conception rather than solid reasoning.-
-
Cogito Ergo Sum YARR!
- YARR!
- YARR!
- Posts: 11085
- Joined: October 29, 2005
- Location: Nottingham
-
-
mastin2 The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- The Second Coming
- Posts: 14413
- Joined: October 8, 2009
- Location: Replacement Alley
Unlimited-BP, definitely.In post 196, pisskop wrote:Is it standard to not inform BPs of the use of their vest/kill attempt upon them?
X-shot, there's some debate there.
I'm not sure if there's an official Normal standard recognized, but personally in my games I will always, always, ALWAYS, 100% of the time, inform an X-shot BP how many vests they have left. (Which by proxy lets them know if they've been attacked.)My academy.
"...You have a blog?!?" (Yes, I do. Click.)
Agnigi, 13p Mini Theme sequel to Gistou, is in design and could use reviewers!-
-
vonflare doot
- doot
- doot
- Posts: 3093
- Joined: January 1, 2014
- Location: Blue Gatorade Factory
In post 198, mastin2 wrote:
Unlimited-BP, definitely.In post 196, pisskop wrote:Is it standard to not inform BPs of the use of their vest/kill attempt upon them?
X-shot, there's some debate there.
I'm not sure if there's an official Normal standard recognized, but personally in my games I will always, always, ALWAYS, 100% of the time, inform an X-shot BP how many vests they have left. (Which by proxy lets them know if they've been attacked.)
but if those two interpretations were normalized, the mod could get around the rule by giving an unlimited-shot BP a rediculous number of x-shot vests (e.g. You are a 999999-shot bulletproof townie)THIS POST IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT.
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.