Mini 1694 -- Zodiac Mafia II (Game Over)

[Mainez]

So being a libra of unfortunate horoscope meant scum got to pick from the fortunate horoscope.

Meaning scum get a daykill and you're close to confirmed town unless Mainez is also scum?

Sounds good to me.

hmm interesting... how do you know scum got the daykill? i believe farside's description of his unfortunate horoscope meant he got the "opposite alignment empowered" and it says that the scumteam may choose one fortunate horoscope.

[Mainez]

I'm also sort of sad I'm the only Pisces at the moment

isn't it good to be the only one? hahaha i'm pretty happy that i'm the only capricorn around!

[Mainez]

So being a libra of unfortunate horoscope meant scum got to pick from the fortunate horoscope.

Meaning scum get a daykill and you're close to confirmed town unless Mainez is also scum?

Sounds good to me.

hmm interesting... how do you know scum got the daykill? i believe farside's description of his unfortunate horoscope meant he got the "opposite alignment empowered" and it says that the scumteam may choose one fortunate horoscope.

If you could choose one of those fortunate horoscopes as scum, what would you choose?

i agree that the daykill is most likely the choice but it's a bit too big of an assumption to assume that scum did choose the daykill.
i just looked at Zodiac Mafia I and the daykill was public apparently. if that applies here too, it would be kind of dumb for scum to take the daykill then cause he/she is pretty much claiming scum. well, unless he/she decides to keep the shot until he/she receives a fortunate horoscope lol.

let me ask the mod.
@Mod is the daykill public?

[Mainez]

can you explain how it can be used as a vengekill?

[Mainez]

also, i've always wanted to do this. so let me revert to RVS. because i really really really want to do this:

VOTE: Metal Sonic

hehehehehehe

[Mainez]

Am I the only Kitty Kat? I forget what I'm compatible with although I know I get along with Libra's, farside

RVS Questions!
1. What about your sign do you know that is true to your personality\outlook?
2. Pick a player you have played with before in the game and describe their town\scum meta
3. What is town's optimal choice if they receive a fortunate horoscope and why?

1) i ripped this off the internet and it seems pretty true, "They can be surprisingly and suddenly witty and subtle for the quiet, reserved individuals they seem to be."
2) haven't played with any of the players here but Metal Sonic is my friend.
3) i don't really know about this but getting the daykill seems fun.

[Mainez]

@nacho, roger

VOTE: lane
we are absolutely lynching this today

This seems like a pretty weird response.

Do you not like the name Roger or something?

i mean
are you okay with it??
afaik lane has a penchant for being horribly too-obv as scum so.

are you saying that you find lane scummy?

[Mainez]

Daykill: elusive

[Mainez]

@Tammy

hi there, farside is claiming to have gotten the "opposite alignment empowered" and this allows scum to choose a fortunate horoscope and most/all of us have figured that scum would most likely choose the daykill.

[Mainez]

I really doubt that this is actually going to work. I think the mod would have came up with something to avoid the game being broken like this.

i don't get why you're not willing to go along with this, there's essentially no harm because if you do not have the daykill then all is fine.

[Mainez]

Explain why scum would pick Commuter, Hider, Vest, Roleblocker or Neighborizer over Dayvig in an all-vanilla game. Also explain how that isn't the obvious conclusion to make.

all-vanilla game? where did that come from?

[Mainez]

so... if nothing happens, does that mean scum didn't pick the day kill?

(oh now you guys know i didn't get the day kill too lol)

[Mainez]

was looking back at some posts and this caught my attention:

Waiting for the mod will take ages, as I believe they're barely ever on. It'd be much quicker to just target different players.

Daykill: Metal Sonic

Yeah, I see what you mean although we'll still have to wait on the Mod. I just hate the risk of killing a town player obviously.

the second sentence seems to imply that elusive is aware of a certain risk in killing a town player.
firstly, if someone had the daykill, it's either me or scum because i got the fortunate horoscope and scum might have chosen it based on farside's unfortunate horoscope.
so essentially, there is no risk involved for town because scum will wanna kill a town player; obviously there is high risk for scum because that person will be claiming scum should the daykill go through.

i think someone mentioned about elusive adding the word "obviously" at the end, the high modality is kind of over-doing it.
i may be jumping to conclusions but the feeling i'm getting from this post is that elusive has prior-knowledge of the daykill not existing.

[Mainez]

i'm probably over-analysing things but
@elusive what kind of risk were you thinking about?

[Mainez]

i'm probably over-analysing things but
@elusive what kind of risk were you thinking about?

Well to be more clear, what it seems like is that Nacho stated that the scum could publicly declare a daykill and then via PM change it but the Mod then clarified that it wasn't true so I asked him why he he made up rules (or why he didn't check the prior game he was in before spreading disinformation).

It's a closed setup so nothing about town roles is known, I believe? So scum have to publicly daykill if they roll this ability - however the randomization of the daykill meant that they might hit a town PR or might kill someone super useful to town in terms of hunting. That's the risk over the random kill vs. town deciding who the scummiest player is and having everyone target that person. Does that make sense now?

but at this stage, only i or scum have the possibility of having the daykill and if scum did have the daykill then they wouldn't really care about who they target, in fact, they would wanna target the player that is most likely to be a PR or some useful player, as you said.

[Mainez]

sorry i've been busy with the marathon games, will catch up in a bit!

[Mainez]

so... regarding the exchange between elusive and lane, i think elusive looks pretty bad in it because lane was indeed asking a simple question that elusive failed to answer. and i didn't say why elusive had to get so worked up and stuff lol.

elusive kinda answered my question in her/his (?) reply to tammy but not exactly too so i'll have to clarify something:

elusive, were you saying that there is a higher chance of scum shooting a PR with the random daykill as opposed to the scum using the daykill in the later part of the day(s)?

[Mainez]

Mainez, I think you said you were over analyzing things. You are. I suggest you find something real to talk about instead of, like lane, trying to drag the game into insipid nonsense. I did answer Lane's questions or found them to be misleading and bad.

OR tell me what town mindset you're asking this question from.

What is the thought process behind it? Where does it lead? To what read does the question help you with and do you usually think that on page 5 of a game where players still aren't sure of the setup spec, there is a reason to over question an theory that was shot down quite quickly? No, tell me and don't BS some easy one size fits all answer - tell me specifically what your goal is through this questioning.

Then, lane and Mainez:

Please link to games where within 9 pages of a game either of you had a solid scum read and got it lynched (and therefore were correct).

Finally, again my Wiki is pretty well built - go and look through some of my games. If you still have questions at that point and they aren't fruitless then go ahead and ask.

Otherwise at this nascent stage in the game, both of you are being really particular in what you're ignoring and what you're focusing on and what you're focusing on is quite irrelevant.

what the actual??????

you post didn't make sense to me. i don't get why there's risk involved in doing the daykill and what PR stuff you were talking. my interpretation was that you were saying that it is more likely for scum to hit a PR with that daykill as opposed to when they use the daykill in the future. this, doesn't make sense to me. like for real. i was trying to understand your train of thought so don't come bullshit with me with this string of questions. i did say i might have been over-analysing things but no, looking at your response, this is not looking like town.

i just got my wiki up, you can refer to it. i only have 3 completed games, all of which were scum.
i'll skim through your games to see if this is how you usually play.

[Mainez]

btw, i don't really trust meta. but i'll still skim through your games to see if this is your so-called play style.

[Mainez]

what an exchange while i was asleep...
giving my two cents here:

this exchange between elusive and tammy is getting no where, my opinion is that elusive is being very high up and acting like she has caught scum which i honestly, cannot see. there's too much conversation about meta and meta and more meta coming here and there and what not but i suggest everyone take a step back, especially elusive. tammy trying to understand the set-up is no way a scumtell from my point of view. in fact, it's probably just a null. her entrance may be somewhat different but definitely not scummy.

i've yet to take a look at elusive's games to see if this is how he/she plays but this "fight" is stupid.
elusive is not pinging my scumdar hard but i'm with tammy on this.

[Mainez]

Actually, you know what, fair enough. Wasn't a remotely confident vote and reading your posts back I'm not seeing what I thought I saw. I'm also not really seeing Tammy scum at the moment unless there's some bombshell evidence I'm overlooking (which tbqh is very possible considering my attention level in this game).

Why don't we all make up and wagon startfromtheheart, eh?

startfromtheheart is joking around too much, i can't seem to read that lol

pedit: looks like someone's here~

[Mainez]

Actually, you know what, fair enough. Wasn't a remotely confident vote and reading your posts back I'm not seeing what I thought I saw. I'm also not really seeing Tammy scum at the moment unless there's some bombshell evidence I'm overlooking (which tbqh is very possible considering my attention level in this game).

Why don't we all make up and wagon startfromtheheart, eh?

startfromtheheart is joking around too much, i can't seem to read that lol

pedit: looks like someone's here~

What did you expect from him???

it was my way of asking why startfromtheheart is scummy

[Mainez]

i am town

friends defend me from ^ please

bad post. why so uncooperative?

but i think sonic is town, his posts haven't looked like scumsonic.

still not liking elusive, but i'm holding my vote for now.

[Mainez]

someone should enlighten me, what was the point of post 387?

only the first 3 sentences seem to be related to this game.

[Mainez]

aronis, i'm not seeing your case on elusive at all. in fact, your ISO kind of stinks.

[Mainez]

There goes the elusive wagon.

UNVOTE:

hmm...?

[Mainez]

VOTE: ricastle

The more I read the less Im convinced of elusive.

I don't like how much nacho isn't doing, and the things he had done seem to just stir confusion... things nacho has said, after already playing this exact type of game
(Paraphrase)
-Daykill is probably private. There was a daykill which was very public on the last game and he talked about it.
-you can publicly daykill but privately take it back... why would he say something so crazy if it wasn't close to true?
-scum didn't have pregame talk.... it's my understanding that scum almost always have twilight talk
-scum might not even have picked yet... idk why he's sowing confusion here.
-scum have day talk... don't you think we'd know if scum had day talk? Or wouldn't we? Serious here, is it possible they'd have day talk and we would never know?

I really don't like his apparent aloofness about what's going on in this game... I think it's possible scum. When i look at his posts as scum he's scummy as hell. When I look at him as town he's null...

Not to mention he hasn't really said anything or taken a stance anywhere I don't think except elusive is the towniest person here

why are you voting for ric when this post has you suspecting elusive and nacho?

[Mainez]

Wtf is up with the m's wagon?

Mainez's vote is RVS. Ricastle's vote is prob omgus. And idk about SFTH's.

VOTE: mainez

To explain this vote, I shall quote the famous Mainez: " your ISO kind of stinks."

how is my ISO stinky?

[Mainez]

It's kind of odd I'd say. Do you not believe in your case anymore?

I'll vote her again should the opportunity arise. But there's no point atm if I'm the only person.

shouldn't you push a lynch for who you think is scum?

Ricastle is a good lynch.

VOTE: Ricastle

(That's L-1 for those that can't count)

why? you haven't even said anything about ricastle except in 354 which you are not confident at all about it and in 391 where you guess that ricastle is an okay direction to look at.

[Mainez]

VOTE: ricastle

The more I read the less Im convinced of elusive.

I don't like how much nacho isn't doing, and the things he had done seem to just stir confusion... things nacho has said, after already playing this exact type of game
(Paraphrase)
-Daykill is probably private. There was a daykill which was very public on the last game and he talked about it.
-you can publicly daykill but privately take it back... why would he say something so crazy if it wasn't close to true?
-scum didn't have pregame talk.... it's my understanding that scum almost always have twilight talk
-scum might not even have picked yet... idk why he's sowing confusion here.
-scum have day talk... don't you think we'd know if scum had day talk? Or wouldn't we? Serious here, is it possible they'd have day talk and we would never know?

I really don't like his apparent aloofness about what's going on in this game... I think it's possible scum. When i look at his posts as scum he's scummy as hell. When I look at him as town he's null...

Not to mention he hasn't really said anything or taken a stance anywhere I don't think except elusive is the towniest person here

why are you voting for ric when this post has you suspecting elusive and nacho?

Why are you quoting one single post and not reading the rest of my posts?

i did read but the pieces don't fit.
you look like you're jumping on the wagon/getting a wagon going.

[Mainez]

about time i get out of my RVS vote too

VOTE: Aronis

[Mainez]

Wtf is up with the m's wagon?

Mainez's vote is RVS. Ricastle's vote is prob omgus. And idk about SFTH's.

VOTE: mainez

To explain this vote, I shall quote the famous Mainez: " your ISO kind of stinks."

how is my ISO stinky?

It's certainly not any better than mine. At least I have the common sense to not be RVS voting on page 20.

about time i get out of my RVS vote too

VOTE: Aronis

*past (not 'about')

I would be cheering for you for such an accomplishment as getting out of the rvs phase before page 25, but I'll save the appluase for after your speech explaining your scumread.

i take time to vote. and when i vote, it's hard for me to unvote unless there's a really good reason to do so. i don't see why you're making a fuss over me making a serious vote now. is it cause it's on you?

i don't like your posts. they lack substance.
in addition, first you vote elusive (as if trying to get some wagon going, i think you were third on the wagon) then make a long post about your case on elusive as scum then unvote when you see that people have unvoted. then voted me because my ISO stinks, apparently. oh then jumped on the ricastle wagon. i don't like the way you approach things, it's scummy.

[Mainez]

i am not following you...

i hope nacho comes back really really really soon.

[Mainez]

When I read mainez posts I read it in her voice

Her voice sounds like omg how dare you point out I have switched my vote, I'm looking to vote you for doing that.

urm... i was the one who said that i switched my own vote lol so i don't get what you're saying here.

[Mainez]

will be here a few hours later to catch up

[Mainez]

this game is hard.
and you experienced people are scaring me, i'm not even kidding lol because truth to be told, i don't have particularly strong scumreads either.

and people don't seem to be on the same page as me which makes me even more confused.

deadline is approaching really soon and i won't mind changing my vote to marquis if needed, iso is pretty bad too.

[Mainez]

I need to reread ric, but mainez reads pretty scummy.
I just don't have time to meta search

i don't know much about meta but i only have 4 completed games, all of which i was scum in all lol facepalm. they're on my wiki if you need them.
i'm kinda learning how to play town lol playing too much scum makes me bad at this, i'm feeling kinda lousy about it too.

so actually i kinda see why you guys may not find me towny enough.

[Mainez]

sorry quoted wrongly. it's supposed to be this:

I need to reread ric, but mainez reads pretty scummy.
I just don't have time to meta search

[Mainez]

Mainez why are you town?

idk how to explain, i'm trying my best to contribute and hunt for scum.
i don't get why nobody finds aronis fishy. and the things i question are apparently ignored or not so good.
it sucks but i'm trying.

[Mainez]

But metal sonic is townreading you and you don't seem very surprised

And I know that seems like a dumb reason and it is

But I can make it sound so good you will die very quickly

why should i be surprised? i'm happy someone is townreading me.
because i swear this game is really hard for me given the playerlist.

[Mainez]

i'm here if you wanna talk and get a better read on me or something

[Mainez]

Mainez why are you town?

idk how to explain, i'm trying my best to contribute and hunt for scum.
i don't get why nobody finds aronis fishy. and the things i question are apparently ignored or not so good.
it sucks but i'm trying.

Why do you think Aronis is fishy?

i believe i mentioned it in one of my earlier posts.

[Mainez]

But metal sonic is townreading you and you don't seem very surprised

And I know that seems like a dumb reason and it is

But I can make it sound so good you will die very quickly

why should i be surprised? i'm happy someone is townreading me.
because i swear this game is really hard for me given the playerlist.

I thought you poked fun at metal sonic's ability to read you in a couple post-marathon chats. maybe I'm wrong on that?

yea i think i did. he's finally doing it right though!
but to be honest, i think sonic will generally read me as town at the start cause of my demeanour in real life. as time passes, he will probably be able to tell if i'm town or scum.

[Mainez]

to add on, in a recently completed game, baccano, sonic replaced it and was reading me as town. subsequently, he started casting suspicion on me. i was indeed scum.

[Mainez]

in the same way, i think i can read sonic pretty well lol.
like i followed some of his games (completed already) and was able to point out his alignment pretty accurately.

[Mainez]

Mainez why are you town?

idk how to explain, i'm trying my best to contribute and hunt for scum.
i don't get why nobody finds aronis fishy. and the things i question are apparently ignored or not so good.
it sucks but i'm trying.

Why do you think Aronis is fishy?

i believe i mentioned it in one of my earlier posts.

Paraphrase it, don't look back on your earlier reasoning.

ok he tries to get a wagon (elusive) going which logically speaking, was pretty legit cause i was finding elusive scummy at the start too. however, aronis makes a long post on his case on elusive as scum but soon after, the wagon dies (idk the correct word to use) so he unvotes, saying something like no point if you're the only one voting or something like that. this is something i don't understand. there was clearly time. and if you truly believe someone to be scum, i don't see why you should unvote just cause people unvoted. then he votes me using my words "iso stinky" and stuff. then a new wagon starts going (ric) and he jumps on it. believe he drove ric to L-1. this looks opportunistic. and idk why nobody finds it scummy to be honest.

idk why you want me to paraphrase without looking back. but i hope it lets you understand my thought process better.

[Mainez]

(i'm here now)

oh that sucks...

does this happen for both alignments?

idk what else you want from me cause i'm having a hard time with this game.
with the state we are in, i won't mind lynching marquis though. i don't think i wanna lynch sonic (think he's in your lynch pool thing) cause he looks like town so far (lousy town lol)... and if given time, i can probably get a better read on him.

aronis though... ughhhhhhhh

[Mainez]

wait i just checked marquis' recent posts, marquis is quitting the site.
so yea, can probably get a replacement for that.

[Mainez]

ok idk now what.

no aronis? gaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Mainez]

omg SCtH posts are like...

...

i don't even know how to describe them. but it ain't good.

[Mainez]

huh?

[Mainez]

I mean, really, it's pretty obvious, reading you over.

seriously? so what's pretty obvious?

[Mainez]

VOTE: St Constantine the Hermit

[Mainez]

who me? i don't even know where my vote stands. but looks like it's L-1.
i'm not feeling too well so i'm going to bed now. i'll be on an hour before the deadline if the day doesn't end by then.

[Mainez]

is there anything anyone wants me to address right now before i zonk out or something?

[Mainez]

voted already.

should be at L-1.

i need sleep.

[Mainez]

ok i'm here!
but i'm on mobile, only have like 15 mins and don't have time to catch up on the past few pages.

[Mainez]

sonic i'm town don't vote me pls

[Mainez]

GOD THISPHONE

i'm town i know i haven't played well
but i'm town

ugh

[Mainez]

i'll just listen to you all
who do i vote
school is starting i need to go soon

[Mainez]

VOTE: ricastle

this???

[Mainez]

i would rather see the hermit dead too than ric
VOTE: hermit

[Mainez]

checking in before going back to do my work!

farside, why are you conftown?
i'm still on the mindset of lynching aronis!

i just checked the horoscope post thing, i think it means your unfortunate horoscope has no effect?
btw, if this game is really all townie with the horoscopes and stuff, i think luck kinda affects this game as well, not sure how to feel about that.

[Mainez]

also, i don't think elusive-scum is dumb enough to kill tammy lol unless that's some crazy wifom shit going on

[Mainez]

aside from the bad requests for people who got their horoscopes today to claim, how come no one asked me what i got from the fortunate horoscope but is trying to get info out of those who got the horoscopes for today? not sure what it means but interesting to point out.

with tammy's town flip, i'm kinda leaning towards elusive as town because of elusive's tunneling at the start and stuff with so much determination. but i remember that when i played as scum before, i tend to openly posts stuff like "hey what do i do now that my strongest scumread is dead bleah", not that this is what elusive did but something along that line like i think it was natural and towny of elusive to assume that scum was trying to so-called "frame" her. the reaction looked genuine. don't think elusive is the right way to go today.

[Mainez]

i'm still on the mindset of lynching aronis!

Why? Did you explain this yesterday?

yea i did but nacho's 721 and 722 (on mobile now, hard to link) made me go like mehhhhhh
i haven't played with aronis before but like i really didn't like his play... :/

talking about nacho, i need to re-read nacho, i kinda like how he was trying to engage and understand me but then things got really crazy towards deadline and i need time to re-read those posts.

[Mainez]

on V/LA till friday

(back about 48-60 hours from now)

will try to check in if possible

[Mainez]

I also want to know Mainzez D1 good fortune, since he is on almost everybody's radar right now.

i kinda don't mind sharing what i got but it seems a little anti-town in my opinion.
how will knowing my horoscope help you or town?

[Mainez]

Yeah this is basically trying to out a power role. Wtf?

I only asked for her

D1 horoscope

. It has probably been used already.

She's recieved two horoscopes so far as well, so I am less concerned about her outing one of her two powers when everyone is already scum reading her.

actually it hasn't been used, (supposed to add a clause here but not sure if i should gaaaaah)
and i only received one, what are you talking about?

do all of you think there's a need for me to reveal my horoscope??

[Mainez]

i think this is the way to go
VOTE: St Constatine the Hermit

[Mainez]

can we lynch either hermit or aronis
bleah

[Mainez]

@sala
hi mate, it's been awhile! sadly, i'm not townreading your slot.

-

hermit is so scummy gaaaaaaah

[Mainez]

i'm feeling better about sala's slot

if a hermit lynch is not going through, i'd rather vote start than ric

i'm pretty sure sonic is town btw

[Mainez]

VOTE: start