Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)


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Post Post #300 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:19 am

Post by Khelvaster »

Oh...lemme answer the rest of that.

Atm, Death_Omen has been making scummy and just plain bad plays to the point of being unreadably bad. If, by some miracle of chance, D_O is actually town, there would be no way for him to confirm it since his record is already so tarnished. Muerrto, on the other hand, might possibly be town, although this is incredibly unlikely.

I will come out directly and say that I can't defend myself against Muerrto. You guys will have to judge for yourselves whether Muerrto's arguments are any good or not. I believe firmly in what I am doing--if he thinks I am scummy for trying to lynch him and D_O, then I guess I will have his vote. I can't make a scum change his vote by arguing that it's not pro-town of him to lynch me :P.

-----------------------------------------------------

DeathSauce and Malchonn: What do you think about Nellie's loaded questioning of me?
Nelly632 wrote: 1) If we all went with you and voted for Death Omen and he turned out to be Townie, would you volunteer yourself for our vote?
So, how would I answer this correctly?
3) Death Omen is lynched today, what are you going to do now?
How could I answer this one well without having to say "if he is scum," and "if he is town," which would bring me under fire for not being sure enough that D_O is scum.
Nelly632 wrote:"But what I am saying is are you so sure that he is SCUM that you would put your DAY TWO life on it?".
Restating #1 almost verbatim.


Nellie: I have already seen what your defense of this stuff is, and I don't need another defense restating the same things. I want the other peoples' opinion of this.
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Post Post #301 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 7:21 am

Post by Vel-Rahn Koon »

12th Vote Count of Day 1



Khelvaster - 4 (Hjallti, vampyrusddg, Nelly632, death_omen)

death_omen - 3 (somestrangeflea, Khelvaster, DeathSauce)
DeathSauce - 1 (Plessiez)

Not Voting:
- 4 (Malchonn, Muerrto, SeraphicMirth, VampaneseHunter)


7 to Lynch
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Post Post #302 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:17 am

Post by Nelly632 »

Nellie: I have already seen what your defense of this stuff is, and I don't need another defense restating the same things. I want the other peoples' opinion of this.
I dont need to defend it anymore you have stated in the previous post the reasons as to why you have singled out DO & Muerrto and then you decide to post a seperate post pointing the finger at me for simply sending you out loaded questions. You asking for everyones else opinion reads to me like "Come on guys I know you are on titl about Muerrto & D.O but lets attack Nelly anything to keep the heat off of me"... But hold on keep reading before you get all hot and bothered LOL
HOWEVER, I believe DeathSauce is more of a careless townie than a scum. As I said, all of these things are "soft" scumtells
You love to claim that Muerrto is feeding D.O defenses because they are scum buddies but right here you are defending every move Death Sauce and claiming that in you "OPINION" they are soft scum tells and that we shouldnt read much into them... To me this is more proof of Scum Buddies then your weak comments about Muerrto feeding him lines... But on that same note I personally dont believe meant it that way so I didnt take it that way.

I have read all of your post Khelv and the truth is that ever since I voted for you I have gotten nothing but TOWNIE vibes that totally contradicts all the pushing for a quick lynch evidence I have...I put pressure on you and you reacted by pointing the finger on me and making a few really stupid moves which is like a townie trying to defend themselves. So the real question is, In this game of facts and proof is a gut feelings enough to unvote someone that you WERE dead set on being scum?

Death Omen Wrote
Just keep jumping on the wagon Khel, you did it before and your doing it again. With the simply reason of stupidity lol.
People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones SIR...


A gut feeling is not enough to vote someone... But a GUT feeling is enough in my mind to Unvote someone...

Unvote: Khelvaster


Vote: Death Omen

Am I sure this is the right move? NO! Why am I making this move? Because instead of taking the shift toward Khelvaster in the voting polls as a oppurtunity to come out and post some theories about your stance in the game. You did nothing but toss your vote with the bandwagon and give no real explination besides the obvious fact that he gunned for you...
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Post Post #303 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 8:30 am

Post by Plessiez »

Khelvaster wrote:DeathSauce and Malchonn: What do you think about Nellie's loaded questioning of me?
For the record, I don't think either of the questions you refer to are particularly bad, and they aren't questions I'd have any trouble answering myself.

(Holding off doing so for now in case there was any special reason you focused on DeathSauce and Malchonn).
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Post Post #304 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:48 am

Post by death_omen »

W/E I'm gonna enjoy watching d2, it will be pretty amusing.

Role Claim:Cop


Since I may not quote may pm there isnt much to say, there hasnt been any night actions. The town has misread things miserably and i have cracked under the pressure, part of this mislynch is my fault.

As for Khelvaster: I hope you enjoy this, lol, gl for d2 =).

As for the town when you find out my town allignment, (which is soon if you keep going along this road) just make sure you lynch Khel tomorrow =D hes scum.


Red text is reserved for the Mod's use - Mod
The journey to your destination is often much more important than the destination itself.
-DO

Ps. God, I'm so wise some times.
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Post Post #305 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:00 pm

Post by vampyrusddg »

wait, are you saying you investigated khel Night 0 and got a guilty?
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Post Post #306 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:04 pm

Post by vampyrusddg »

vampyrusddg wrote:wait, are you saying you investigated khel Night 0 and got a guilty?
EBWOP, nm just noticed you said in that post there hadn't been any night actions.

in that case you cannot be sure Khel is scum, and we know that, the only way we can find out now is if we've got a doc onboard and he believes your RC
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Post Post #307 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 2:39 pm

Post by Nelly632 »

Good move Death Omen...

My only question is why would you Role Claim when you have only 4 votes on yourself? You make it seem like we all have worn you down and the truth is that nothing 24 has really changed in the last 24 hours besides me changing my vote your way.

I honestl dont know how to read this role claim...

1) If you are in fact the cop then lynching you would put us deep in hot water..

2) If you are not then you can be trying to draw the real cop out of the water...

example: Khelvster says "Now I know you are scum because I am the cop"

Then you get lynched anyways but now the other Mafia member knows who the cop is and then he ends up dead...

It is interesting to see how everyone else reacts to this and you all play thi game how you want to but my suggestion is IF YOU ARE THE COP and D.O is not DONT SAY ANYTHING...

But good play D.O I am sure you will have people who are on the fence with you rethinking their vote... I know that I wasnt sure and now you put more doubt into my mind...
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Post Post #308 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:01 pm

Post by Khelvaster »

Now I know you are scum because I am the cop!!!
Pwnvote: Death_Omen


















Nah, just kidding. I couldn't help...
Anyway, I'd really like the real cop to come out d2 and investigate D_O n1. If no real cop comes out, then I suppose we happen to have the scummiest townie since Battle Mage. That said, Muerrto is my other choice for today. I've already explained why.
Vote: Muerrto
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Post Post #309 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 3:04 pm

Post by Khelvaster »

Oh, when I said I couldn't help..., I meant I couldn't help posting that, not that I couldn't help.
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Post Post #310 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:02 pm

Post by Muerrto »

DeathSauce wrote:No problem. My initial thought was to lynch the more experienced of the scum, that is why I voted for you. In considering the possibility that I am wrong, I decided to vote the less experienced player, in hopes that if I am wrong it is less of a detriment to the town.

Your post above about how you will be viewed as suspicious no matter who is lynched puzzles me a tad. Can you explain why you would be suspect if Khel is lynched?
Because DO is 100% convinced I'm Khel's partner and vice versa. So if either ARE scum then I'm gonna be under fire.
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Abondoned = 3

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Post Post #311 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:10 pm

Post by Khelvaster »

Death_Omen, I am prepared to revote you unless you explain "that little hint of yours" in the following post:
Ok now that 75% of the people in this game think I'm scum are assured to lynch me out.

To the town If i am town aligned PLEASE make sure Khelvaster is lynched tomorrow.

Ok now to start defending myself again... Khelvaster you seem to be so sure of my mafia allignment you overlook things very easily. You also fail to look and both sides of the story, he does not even care about what I say ever since Post 100 all his posts have been directed against me without much reason.

I've said it before and I'll say it again things or people do not always appear and what they seem. I am 100% town alligned as you will soon find out if you continue down the path that Khelvaster has sprung out of nowhere.

There is also a lot of lurking going on by people who just want to see me out of this game, hypenated has just stopped posting completely so has vampsdurgg.

I hope the townies in this game saw that little hint of mine.
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Post Post #312 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:19 pm

Post by Muerrto »

Khelvaster wrote:Anyway, I'd really like the real cop to come out d2 and investigate D_O n1. If no real cop comes out, then I suppose we happen to have the scummiest townie since Battle Mage. That said, Muerrto is my other choice for today. I've already explained why.
Vote: Muerrto
Um wait a sec. Your ENTIRE case of me being scum is that I fed DO lines. NOW DO claims cop and you're saying I'm the second scummiest? But IF you believe he's a cop then we're obviously not scumbuddies and you have no case on me because I wouldn't be feeding him lines. If you DON'T believe he's the cop then why would you not vote him? Your vote for me makes no sense and definitely makes me do this.

Vote: Khev


First you're 100% convinced me and DO are scum, then you add Nell. Somewhere in there you decide we're all 3 scum. Now DO claims cop and instead of voting him since you're 100% convinced he's scum you vote me? You push for a speedlynch, you try to rush the day, you have tunnel vision on only 3 people in the game(the exact amount needed after night kills for a scum win). I coulda sworn you were just eager town but your immediate acceptance of his cop claim when before you were 100% convinced he was scum is simply damning.

Now what this means most likely is that DO is Khev's partner as Pless supposed earlier. Either that or he plans on safely night killing DO later. But we'll have to see what happens on day 2 and what DO found out.
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Mafia - Win=5, Loss=4
Abondoned = 3

I feel for the rest of the players every time I get a town PM.
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Post Post #313 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:20 pm

Post by death_omen »

Muerrto wrote:
DeathSauce wrote:No problem. My initial thought was to lynch the more experienced of the scum, that is why I voted for you. In considering the possibility that I am wrong, I decided to vote the less experienced player, in hopes that if I am wrong it is less of a detriment to the town.

Your post above about how you will be viewed as suspicious no matter who is lynched puzzles me a tad. Can you explain why you would be suspect if Khel is lynched?
Because DO is 100% convinced I'm Khel's partner and vice versa. So if either ARE scum then I'm gonna be under fire.
Now when did I say your his partner... if i did then that is completely false, if Khel is scum one of the lurkers is his partner.

I will chose to investigate Khel n1 and if i live till d2 *gasp* I wil share my recollections with the town.
The journey to your destination is often much more important than the destination itself.
-DO

Ps. God, I'm so wise some times.
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Post Post #314 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:21 pm

Post by death_omen »

oh yea forgot to answer Khel's question:

*town alligned* *hint* *nudge*
The journey to your destination is often much more important than the destination itself.
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Ps. God, I'm so wise some times.
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Post Post #315 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:26 pm

Post by Muerrto »

death_omen wrote:oh yea forgot to answer Khel's question:

*town alligned* *hint* *nudge*
This is the worst hint period. It doesn't say cop at all. I'm NOT going to vote you today because there's NEVER any reason to lynch a claimed power role unless in LYLO, but this does NOT mean I believe your claim at all.

HUGE FoS: DO


Every single person playing is going to say they're town aligned. How is this a hint in any way shape or form?
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Abondoned = 3

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Post Post #316 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:37 pm

Post by Khelvaster »

Muerrto wrote: Um wait a sec. Your ENTIRE case of me being scum is that I fed DO lines. NOW DO claims cop and you're saying I'm the second scummiest? But IF you believe he's a cop
then we're obviously not scumbuddies and you have no case on me because I wouldn't be feeding him lines.
Wow, what a gem. This is pure WIFOM, especially after I mentioned a little while ago how you might still be scum feeding him lines to try and frame him up and make you guys seem connected. You are playing heavily on this connection, which is in fact pure WIFOM and thus useless. Also, you wouldn't know that he was cop until he claimed.


If you DON'T believe he's the cop then why would you not vote him? Your vote for me makes no sense and definitely makes me do this.


Would you vote for a claimed cop in a closed setup without a counterclaim? I certainly wouldn't.
First you're 100% convinced me and DO are scum, then you add Nell. Somewhere in there you decide we're all 3 scum. Now DO claims cop and instead of voting him since you're 100% convinced he's scum you vote me?
I am fairly convinced he is scum. If we see a cop as the NK or a counterclaim d2, it's lynch time. As I said, better safe than sorry. Now, if had claimed townie, I wouldn't have given it a second thought and I would have kept my vote on him.

I was convinced D_O is scum mainly because of his overall scummy behavior, which doesn't need repeating.

I am convinced you are scum mainly because of your repeated line-feeding and attempts to establish a link to D_O

I am convinced Nell was scum because she fired off against me with a bunch of loaded questions while defending you and D_O, to people who are very scummy.
You push for a speedlynch, you try to rush the day, you have tunnel vision on only 3 people in the game(the exact amount needed after night kills for a scum win).
Uh, 3 people is also the number of scum in a normal, 1-scumteam mini, which I am assuming this is (it would make sense.)
I coulda sworn you were just eager town but your immediate acceptance of his cop claim when before you were 100% convinced he was scum is simply damning.
I love how you use loaded evidence. I'm pretty sure it's a really scummy thing to want to lynch an uncounterclaimed cop, and for good reason. I did what any logical person would do--I unvoted. That is vacuous evidence--anyone would unvote a claimed cop.
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Post Post #317 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 5:53 pm

Post by Muerrto »

Khelvaster wrote:
Muerrto wrote: Um wait a sec. Your ENTIRE case of me being scum is that I fed DO lines. NOW DO claims cop and you're saying I'm the second scummiest? But IF you believe he's a cop
then we're obviously not scumbuddies and you have no case on me because I wouldn't be feeding him lines.
Wow, what a gem. This is pure WIFOM, especially after I mentioned a little while ago how you might still be scum feeding him lines to try and frame him up and make you guys seem connected. You are playing heavily on this connection, which is in fact pure WIFOM and thus useless. Also, you wouldn't know that he was cop until he claimed.
Please read up on WIFOM before you respond again. This isn't it. You said that I was feeding my scum buddy lines. You've been 100% convinced of that since day 2. That's been your ONLY case against me.

Only recently, like 1 page back did you change that to say that maybe I was scum linking myself to DO and that maybe he was innocent. But you were STILL saying you were 100% convinced you had all 3 scum. So much so that you said you had NO other suspects at all. This is contradictory.

Claiming my argument is WIFOM after we saw how much people hated WIFOM is just a tactic to divert votes onto me. Again, read up on WIFOM. If I'd said something like 'scum wouldn't feed lines to town' that would be WIFOM. But I didn't. I said YOUR case against me was that I was scum feeding my SCUMBUDDY lines. Now that DO's claimed cop and you unvoted him, how am I a scumbuddy feeding lines again?

Khelvaster wrote:Would you vote for a claimed cop in a closed setup without a counterclaim? I certainly wouldn't.

Now this is nice. You can look above your post and see that I already stated that same thing. So trying to state that in a way that sounds like I would vote a claimed cop? Not gonna work. I even said I don't believe the claim but I'm not voting a claimed cop.

Khelvaster wrote:I am convinced you are scum mainly because of your repeated line-feeding and attempts to establish a link to D_O

I've already shot down this argument a few pages back in a post you never responded to about how I basically 'fed lines' to just about everyone playing. Now pay attention. What you just posted above? Saying I'm scum because I'm 'feeding lines'? THAT is WIFOM my friend and an incredibly weak reason to vote anyone.


You suspect strictly on an OMGUS basis, we saw it with DO, me, and Nell. You have no evidence or reason behind your votes other than 'since they're attacking me they must be scum'. Since townies don't know each other this argument is null. BUT scum know who the townies are. And your constant OMGUS voting definitely spells scum.
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Games - 31
Town - Win=9, Loss=10
Mafia - Win=5, Loss=4
Abondoned = 3

I feel for the rest of the players every time I get a town PM.
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Post Post #318 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:04 pm

Post by SeraphicMirth »

Nelly632 wrote: My only question is why would you Role Claim when you have only 4 votes on yourself? You make it seem like we all have worn you down and the truth is that nothing 24 has really changed in the last 24 hours besides me changing my vote your way
I have the same question..you also threatened to role claim pretty early as well. I'm always a little concerned about "TMI" on d1...could be extremely frustrated town, or it could be scum setting up a fake claim.

However, there is no counter claim at this point..so I won't vote you. I think maybe we should look at other options for now. Even if d_o was fake claiming and is scum, let's get a different scum hung, so a real cop wouldn't have to come out this early.

I've decided to
vote vampanezehunter
because a)I haven't voted yet lol and b)I'm not sure that the 3 that have been most discussed at the top of the scum list are scum, which i said earlier; and I do think that VH has done quite a few suspicious things without much of a defense.

I still think Khel is suspicious, I don't like how he's ignoring other possible scum because he's locked onto his 3 choice and therefore "by elimination" has to discount any other people as possible scum. Khel- Are you actively looking at others or are you so sure of yourself that you are only dissecting the 3? If D_O is the cop, and you were so sure he was paired with Muerrto...what now?
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Post Post #319 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:28 pm

Post by Khelvaster »

In case anyone skims over the rest of this, here is a must-see from Muerrto's latest post.
muerrto, a few posts ago wrote:
But IF you believe he's a cop then we're obviously not scumbuddies and you have no case on me because I wouldn't be feeding him lines.
Muerrto, in his last post wrote: Claiming my argument is WIFOM after we saw how much people hated WIFOM is just a tactic to divert votes onto me. Again, read up on WIFOM.
If I'd said something like 'scum wouldn't feed lines to town' that would be WIFOM. But I didn't.
This speaks for itself. Muerrto can't pull a noob card like D_O. I'd like to see him try and get himself out of this latest megascumtell.


Please read up on WIFOM before you respond again. This isn't it. You said that I was feeding my scum buddy lines. You've been 100% convinced of that since day 2. That's been your ONLY case against me.
There are some small scummy things you have done, but they are soft scumtells. I didn't feel the need to mention them unless specifically asked because they can also apply to townies in a lot of cases. The only time feeding people lines occurs is if the feeder knows the alignment of the person he is feeding. There was no n0, so you couldn't have investigated D_O. D_O didn't claim mason; he claimed cop. That leaves scum. Scum can either be doing it to link themselves to a townie so they can look more pro-town from defending him after a lynch or they can be doing it with a scum to seriously stop him from being lynched.

Only recently, like 1 page back did you change that to say that maybe I was scum linking myself to DO and that maybe he was innocent. But you were STILL saying you were 100% convinced you had all 3 scum. So much so that you said you had NO other suspects at all. This is contradictory.
Not so--I was merely mentioning other possibilities, in case I happened to be wrong. Also, I never said I was "100%" anything. I said I was very sure, extremely sure, and the like, but never 100% sure. That's why I admitted to the small, finite chance that you could have been tying yourself to D_O. It seems you actually were.
Claiming my argument is WIFOM after we saw how much people hated WIFOM is just a tactic to divert votes onto me. Again, read up on WIFOM. If I'd said something like 'scum wouldn't feed lines to town' that would be WIFOM. But I didn't.
I said YOUR case against me was that I was scum feeding my SCUMBUDDY lines. Now that DO's claimed cop and you unvoted him, how am I a scumbuddy feeding lines again?
I also mentioned you could have been scum trying to link to a townie.
Khelvaster wrote:Would you vote for a claimed cop in a closed setup without a counterclaim? I certainly wouldn't.

Now this is nice. You can look above your post and see that I already stated that same thing. So trying to state that in a way that sounds like I would vote a claimed cop? Not gonna work. I even said I don't believe the claim but I'm not voting a claimed cop.
Yeah, but you definitely shouldn't say that me unvoting the claimed cop makes me scummy or hypocritical in any way. That is pure bullshit.

You suspect strictly on an OMGUS basis, we saw it with DO, me, and Nell. You have no evidence or reason behind your votes other than 'since they're attacking me they must be scum'. Since townies don't know each other this argument is null. BUT scum know who the townies are. And your constant OMGUS voting definitely spells scum.
I'm pretty sure you, D_O, and Nell haven't been the only three people this game who have voted for me. As I have said before, D_O has been consistantly scummy, you have been feeding lines (and now incredibly hypocritical and illogical,) and Nell seemed to be capitalizing on my BW by posting loaded questions for me to answer.
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Post Post #320 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 6:37 pm

Post by SeraphicMirth »

SeraphicMirth wrote:If D_O is the cop, and you were so sure he was paired with Muerrto...what now?
nvm I see your answer
"One's mind, once stretched by a new idea, never regains its original dimensions." - Oliver Wendell Holmes
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Post Post #321 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:08 pm

Post by death_omen »

Muerrto wrote:
death_omen wrote:oh yea forgot to answer Khel's question:

*town alligned* *hint* *nudge*
This is the worst hint period. It doesn't say cop at all. I'm NOT going to vote you today because there's NEVER any reason to lynch a claimed power role unless in LYLO, but this does NOT mean I believe your claim at all.

HUGE FoS: DO


Every single person playing is going to say they're town aligned. How is this a hint in any way shape or form?
Think, think for just one second... Town alligned basically yells out power role, i avoided saying townie which pratically means no power a simple old townie with no night actions.
The journey to your destination is often much more important than the destination itself.
-DO

Ps. God, I'm so wise some times.
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Post Post #322 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 9:13 pm

Post by death_omen »

SeraphicMirth wrote:
Nelly632 wrote: My only question is why would you Role Claim when you have only 4 votes on yourself? You make it seem like we all have worn you down and the truth is that nothing 24 has really changed in the last 24 hours besides me changing my vote your way
I have the same question..you also threatened to role claim pretty early as well. I'm always a little concerned about "TMI" on d1...could be extremely frustrated town, or it could be scum setting up a fake claim.

However, there is no counter claim at this point..so I won't vote you. I think maybe we should look at other options for now. Even if d_o was fake claiming and is scum, let's get a different scum hung, so a real cop wouldn't have to come out this early.

I've decided to
vote vampanezehunter
because a)I haven't voted yet lol and b)I'm not sure that the 3 that have been most discussed at the top of the scum list are scum, which i said earlier; and I do think that VH has done quite a few suspicious things without much of a defense.

I still think Khel is suspicious, I don't like how he's ignoring other possible scum because he's locked onto his 3 choice and therefore "by elimination" has to discount any other people as possible scum. Khel- Are you actively looking at others or are you so sure of yourself that you are only dissecting the 3? If D_O is the cop, and you were so sure he was paired with Muerrto...what now?
Sorry forgot to answer Sm's answer in previous post. Why with only 4 votes. That is pretty self explantory by looking at this topic but ill explaing regardless. Lots of people including those who hadn't voted were on the brink of hammering me, there was at least 3.

As for you guys suggesting a fake RC, I will do anything to convince your guys of its vaildity, but there is not much I can do atm.
The journey to your destination is often much more important than the destination itself.
-DO

Ps. God, I'm so wise some times.
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Post Post #323 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:12 pm

Post by somestrangeflea »

Unvote


D_O, if you don't have any results tomorrow, you're a dead man.

Vote: Khelvaster


I'm not liking his exchange with Muerrto...
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Post Post #324 (ISO) » Sun Aug 05, 2007 10:25 pm

Post by Plessiez »

Khelvaster wrote:Anyway, I'd really like the real cop to come out d2 and investigate D_O n1.
Wait, what? Am I missing something here? :?

If there's a "real cop" out there, don't they ... already have a pretty good idea that death_omen is scum? Why waste the investigation on him?

The real cop - if there is one - should probably claim tomorrow though, I suppose. I don't see much reason to believe death_omen, but like others I'm not voting for a claimed cop with no counter claim.

I'm going to
vote: VampanezeHunter
. Given my reasons for suspecting him before. Would be interesting to see how he reacts to a little pressure.

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