Newbie 428: Eat My Shorts! Game Over!

[Mr Stoofer]

Vote Count

spectrumvoid: 1 (JDodge, Haut Boy)
Haut Boy: 1 (SilverPhoenix)
Caliban: 1 (Arvetis)
JDodge: 1 (New Coldness)
New Coldness: 1 (Caliban)
Arvetis: 1 (spectrumvoid)

Not voting: --

With 7 alive it will take

4

votes to lynch!

[Caliban]

Page 3 and the scum ain't made any mistakes yet .

What about the town power roles? We may or may not have a copper and/or a doc, should we do anything to try to help them or just keep shtoom and let them do thier job?

[Haut Boy]

I say just let them do what they will. If we try actively helping the power roles, we will most likely get them into trouble eventually.

Y'all want something scummy?

Unvote: voidy, vote: Haut Boy

There y'are.

I will have limited access for about a week. I should still be able to read and post, but don't expect a whole lot.

[New Coldness]

Oh, DAMMIT. Not another freakin' self-voter. I hate this crap.

By the way, any attempt to out power roles (aside from putting someone under the hammer and interrogating them), is scummy as hell.

[New Coldness]

Like, forcing them to roleclaim I mean.

[Caliban]

Leave 'em be then.

what's with self-voting? What purpose does it serve?

An assumption would be that you're a vanilla townie and want out of the game, but then that can easily be turned into a WIFOM mess!

Don't seem like a sparky-bright move to me.

[New Coldness]

Leave 'em be then.

what's with self-voting? What purpose does it serve?

An assumption would be that you're a vanilla townie and want out of the game, but then that can easily be turned into a WIFOM mess!

Don't seem like a sparky-bright move to me.

It's usually a noobtard move used by vanilla townies who find themselves under suspicion and throw a tantrum to try to get out of it. It's not necessarily scummy, it's just really noobish.

At least when a novice does it. As opposed to someone with "Mafia Scum" under their username. Then it's noobish and scummy. And conveniently enough, we can't interrogate Haut Boy because of limited interwebs access.

FoS: Haut Boy

I mean, seriously. You should know better.

[Haut Boy]

Eh, still trying to feel out a playstyle. I suppose I should know better than that, but I'm still trying to feel out a good way to stir things up (obviously, this isn't), and I'll admit to the newbie things; I've only been here a few months.

unvote: myself

[Caliban]

Hmmm I'm not convinced, although I'm not gonna express a more serious level of suspicion at this time.

There's still not nearly enough to go on yet.

[Caliban]

None edit:

Although I have a theory forming......

[New Coldness]

None edit:

Although I have a theory forming......

Out with it, man! And even if the logic sucks, I promise not to hold you to it, because you aren't presenting it as an argument that the town should act on, but rather just a theory that you would like input on.

Anything to get a serious discussion going, dammit.

[Arvetis]

Random phase doesn't really end, I guess, until someone does something scummy. I've seen most random phases end with arguments over game doctrine.

So does anyone find what Arvetis said there to be so blatantly false as to be scummy, so we can move out of random? 'cause I don't. Still in random voting, I guess.

How is what I said false at all? Most scum, if they've read at least one game, have figured out that lurking too much early on gets the town annoyed at them and results in votes. Coming out and voting for people with no explanation, however, benefits them, and the very beginning of the game is the only time they can get away with it. Lurking in the beginning of the game is overrated as a scumtell.

[Arvetis]

Also, I find your "cause I don't" very strange. It almost seems like you're trying to find an excuse to throw suspicion on me, but "get away" with it if nobody agrees with you.

[New Coldness]

You were kind of defending lurking, which was kind of scummy, but nowhere near scummy enough to even warrant an FoS, which was why I didn't give you one. It wasn't even enough to justify an interrogation. What you were saying there was game philosophy that didn't violate any established logical fallacies.

Which is why I said that I

didn't

find it scummy enough to justify moving out of random. That's where the "'cause I don't" came in: because I didn't. Basically, I might disagree with it a little bit, but that's as far as it goes. You're reading way too much into that "accusation," and if you'll notice, I haven't accused you of anything since.

[Caliban]

Out with it, man! And even if the logic sucks, I promise not to hold you to it, because you aren't presenting it as an argument that the town should act on, but rather just a theory that you would like input on.

Anything to get a serious discussion going, dammit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I may very well be,

I just feel that,

Silver Pheonix

and

Haut Boy

seen to have a knowledge of each other that goes beyond metagame knowledge, like they may have exchanged PM's befroe the game started proper.

This is also kinda unfounded and going mostley on tone, wording and timing of posts.

Please correct me.

[New Coldness]

I don't trust tone, wording, or timing. I can't read body language over the interwebs, and we've got players from several different cultures with several different upbringings and educational levels, and there's no telling what kind of mood anyone is in at any given time. So I don't read too much into any of that.

If you've got specific examples, though, I'd love to see them.

[Haut Boy]

Out with it, man! And even if the logic sucks, I promise not to hold you to it, because you aren't presenting it as an argument that the town should act on, but rather just a theory that you would like input on.

Anything to get a serious discussion going, dammit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I may very well be,

I just feel that,

Silver Pheonix

and

Haut Boy

seen to have a knowledge of each other that goes beyond metagame knowledge, like they may have exchanged PM's befroe the game started proper.

This is also kinda unfounded and going mostley on tone, wording and timing of posts.

Please correct me.

You are wrong. I just found an opportunity to be facetious and I took it, if you're talking about the "me and sv are teh scumz lolzhahahizzles" post. Otherwise, I don't see how we could be connected other than a random OMGUS on my part.

[JDodge]

Out with it, man! And even if the logic sucks, I promise not to hold you to it, because you aren't presenting it as an argument that the town should act on, but rather just a theory that you would like input on.

Anything to get a serious discussion going, dammit.

Correct me if I'm wrong, which I may very well be,

I just feel that,

Silver Pheonix

and

Haut Boy

seen to have a knowledge of each other that goes beyond metagame knowledge, like they may have exchanged PM's befroe the game started proper.

This is also kinda unfounded and going mostley on tone, wording and timing of posts.

Please correct me.

You need to expand on these theoretical points a bit more.

Why

does it seem like that?

What

seems like that?

[Caliban]

Perhaps I'm being too paranoid, but no discussion is a bad discussion, as long as it's kept rationa (I ain't switching votes or calling the bandwagon).

When Silver Pheonix metioned lurking, Haut Boy responded pretty quickly. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps "oh crap i better stop lurking it's attracting attention".

In roughly most of Silver Pheonix's posts he talks directly about who may or may not be scum. That is what the game is about, but perhaps the defelction is coming a little too quickly.

Still the most suspicious thing that has happened so far is Huat Boy, switching his vote form Silver Pheonix to himself.
Now if was scum, during the random pahse it would make sense to joke vote eachother asap,
1. It can be done without suspicion
2. It gives a one vote (25%) control of the 'lynchometer' if needed.
If the scum fake-vote on each other then if real suspicion falls they can switch off to require their to be even more pressure to engender a lynch.

Hope that makes sense, and also note my ideas are currently not pushing me enough to consider a proper vote yet.

[New Coldness]

Caliban, that "most suspicious" thing is loaded with WIFOM. I agree that self-voting is at best noobish and at worst scummy, but I think you're reaching here. Same goes for the cross-vote analysis.

1. Do you know why it can be done without suspicion? Because it isn't normally scummy. If we start believing that all not-suspicious things are scummy, we no longer have a game in any meaningful sense of the word.

2. Not voting would do the same thing. And if a scum gets lynched on D1, anyone who unvoted him would be facing a lot of pressure on D2.

Have you considered the possibility that Haut Boy is scum and Silver isn't? It didn't become a cross-vote until Haut Boy made his move, and it's entirely possible that Silver had no say in who Haut Boy voted for.

In other words, this same scenario makes just as much sense with a completely different set of presuppositions.

Which means it's WIFOM.

(Not actually accusing you of being scum there, Haut Boy... although you are now marginally the scummiest, IMHO, thanks to that self-vote.)

[Caliban]

Perhaps I am barking up the wrong tree then, has anyone else found anything particularily suspicious so far?

[Haut Boy]

When Silver Pheonix metioned lurking, Haut Boy responded pretty quickly. Perhaps coincidence, perhaps "oh crap i better stop lurking it's attracting attention".

Also note that I had just managed to get back onto MS after a really busy weekend. I realize I am marginally the scummiest player right now, but please don't misrepresent what actually happened.

[Arvetis]

You were kind of defending lurking, which was kind of scummy, but nowhere near scummy enough to even warrant an FoS, which was why I didn't give you one. It wasn't even enough to justify an interrogation. What you were saying there was game philosophy that didn't violate any established logical fallacies.

I actually wasn't "defending lurking." It's still bad for the town. It's just far more likely to be a poor town player than a scum doing it these days, in my opinion. Scum have a greater opportunity to lose by lurking.

Which is why I said that I

didn't

find it scummy enough to justify moving out of random. That's where the "'cause I don't" came in: because I didn't. Basically, I might disagree with it a little bit, but that's as far as it goes. You're reading way too much into that "accusation," and if you'll notice, I haven't accused you of anything since.

Then why did you say it?

[SilverPhoenix]

Sorry for not responding, I was away for a couple of days. A couple of things I would like to point out...

You were kind of defending lurking, which was kind of scummy, but nowhere near scummy enough to even warrant an FoS, which was why I didn't give you one. It wasn't even enough to justify an interrogation. What you were saying there was game philosophy that didn't violate any established logical fallacies.

Lurking can arouse suspicion, but not even enough for an FoS. Not at this stage. If there happened to be an interesting nightkill, then the scum would like to lay low for a while to see the reaction from the townies. Since it is D1 however....

Caliban, that "most suspicious" thing is loaded with WIFOM.

I agree with that. Doing a self-vote doesn't mean anything in a game without a Joker. I

do

however see simply changing votes at this stage is somewhat scummy so they can form some bandwagon against an innocent townie due to some mistake. I will be watching the first person to vote to -2....

[Caliban]

Yeah, it's a brave person who's gonna put the 2nd vote on someone, it does seem to be somewhat of a stalemate just now. I'm not really sure how we can flush out any scum just now, it klinda seems like if they were gonna mess up they would have done by now.