13p Normal [TM2015]

[DeltaWave]

Specifically trying to flash wagon without any justification with 20 hours left in the day in a potential day-before-lylo situation is painfully anti-town. I'll consider the egg wagon but I may just end up on boon.

[pieguyn]

UNVOTE: Egg
VOTE: DeltaWave

no don't do this please. Boon or Egg.

[pieguyn]

I just want to make sure everyone is aware that the entire point of handling this game this way is that we can be 99% sure everyone besides {Boon, Egg} is town and not have to second guess it. k thx

[Trojan Horse]

Hang on, pie. I'm putting my case together now. Once I've done that, if you think my case is crazy, let me know.

[DeltaWave]

yeah I'm looking forward to reading it. This is just noise. Anyway I'm going to review this stuff and place a vote when I come home from work around 8:30 or so eastern time.

[Egg]

Trojan, don't do that with deadline coming. No lynch is inexcusable right now and Mala probably didn't hardbus Day 2 after losing a scumbuddy Day 1.

[Boonskiies]

@Sthar - Get Antihero or TellTaleHeart to read me. If you are town, they'll surely see this as my town game.

Still waiting on this.

Science twins update: TTH says she doesn't think you've ever been town in a game with her. Antihero agreed, then said you'd been town in a game with Heartless, then said you hadn't made much impression.

I've been in like...4 games with Anti. haha. none of them were scum games.

[Boonskiies]

To be fair, Ika wants Egg hardlynched, but GIF thinks egg/pie are both super town.

[Trojan Horse]

My post from the start of the Day:

My scumreads are continuing to shift. If I had to stake the game on the next lynch, I think I'd choose Delta. Mostly because it seems like his interest in scumhunting has waned as the game has gone on.

I feel even stronger about this now. Take a good look at Delta's iso, folks. I don't see much effort to scumhunt from day 3 on. He hasn't even cast a vote in all that time. It looks like he's trying to fly under the radar, and let the rest of us do the work. Isn't that a usual scum tactic, to make it look like you are losing interest in the game?

If that was all I was concerned about, I wouldn't be bringing it up now. Delta moved up to #2 on my scumlist, behind Egg. I was prepared to wait until I saw Egg's flip; no reason to start a flashwagon right now.

But this REALLY set me off:

A boon lynch is essentially a policy lynch at this point but I'm not seeing many other choices.

Tell me the egg case but without the bullshit

Do you see what he's doing here? He's subtlely denigrating both of the current bandwagons, so that regardless of whether we lynch Boon or Egg (a town flip either way), Delta looks more town for not pushing that lynch. Then Delta is all set for the endgame, because he has two suspects lined up: either Boon or Egg (whoever we don't lynch now), and me. Easy win for him.

I think pie is nearly conftown. Sthar has indications of being town. The scum is probably within {Egg, Boon, Trojan.} The only thing I really have on Boon is the self-meta, which could just be a terrible town argument, so I'm going to be re-evaluating everything here.

If Boonskiies was scum, that would mean the entire Malakittens wagon was town-driven and nobody was bussing her. I'm not saying it's impossible but I would expect a busser at that stage of the game. This does sort of call TH into question.

The thing about Boon is that I can't tell if what he's doing is scum motivated or town motivated because it seems almost random to me. Like Boon gets pissed and then cooks up a whole case around being annoyed at someone. We're too late in the game for a policy lynch though. Grey thinks TH is scum. I'm not so sure. I'll need to re-read some key parts of the game.

Couple that with Egg's apparent not caring about his impending lynch (though admittedly, that could just be scum trying to bluff his way out of it), and I REALLY think Delta is scum here.

Okay, let me have it. Why am I crazy?

[Nexus]

Votecount 5.4:

Boonskiies (2)-

Egg, Pieguyn

Egg (1)-

Boonskiies,

DeltaWave (1)-

Trojan Horse

Not voting (2)-

DeltaWave, sthar8,

With 6 alive it takes 4 to lynch. Deadline is at 6pm GMT on Thursday 28th May 2015 (expired on 2015-05-28 13:00:00)

[/b]

[Trojan Horse]

....didn't even read the last few pages, did you? Trojan Horse made pretty good cases for Egg scum, and I quoted a lot of sthar's cases.

My attention has been lapsing. I'll go check it out.

Your attention has been lapsing as we have gotten closer to endgame? I'm not buying it.

Trojan, don't do that with deadline coming. No lynch is inexcusable right now and Mala probably didn't hardbus Day 2 after losing a scumbuddy Day 1.

I have no intention to no lynch. As for what happened day 2: I agree that after Thor's lynch, Mala didn't want to bus. But if Delta is scum, the bus makes sense. Mala and Delta were garnering almost all the votes at that point. What could they do? Having one scum (Mala) bus, and having the other scum (Delta) not bus, seems to be the right move.

[DeltaWave]

So basically showing skepticism of wagons is scummy and being really busy for a few days is also scummy kk

I forgot that the pro town thing for me to do is to relentlessly tunnel. I have no idea how this made its way into ms meta but I've seen it many times before

[DeltaWave]

If you push one wagon intensely and they flip town, you are scum eager for a mislynch. If you are skeptical of wagons and you don't push intensely you are scum trying to avoid responsibility. Don't derp out like this TH. if you are town don't mess this up with conf bias. Anyway I hate posting on my phone so see you in 4 hrs.

[Trojan Horse]

It's more than just showing skepticism of wagons. You're just sitting back and letting the rest of us do the scumhunting. All the better to avoid suspicion.

Delta, let me ask you the same question I asked before: who is your top scumpick right now? (I'm willing to wait until you get back to a computer.) Honestly, if you had made an effort to push someone today - even ME - I wouldn't be so sure that you're scum right now.

If you push one wagon intensely and they flip town, you are scum eager for a mislynch.

I disagree with that part. Boon tried to lynch me for most of the game, but I don't think he's scum for that.

[pieguyn]

Do you see what he's doing here? He's subtlely denigrating both of the current bandwagons, so that regardless of whether we lynch Boon or Egg (a town flip either way), Delta looks more town for not pushing that lynch. Then Delta is all set for the endgame, because he has two suspects lined up: either Boon or Egg (whoever we don't lynch now), and me. Easy win for him.

DW would have had Boon/Egg as the two mislynches already. he doesn't need to go out of his way to line you up for _another_ lynch. I think pushing vanity wagons at this point is _extremely_ antitown as this is the part of the game when you need to work on POE'ing it and trusting each other in order to win, but it's not scummy, either.

I have no intention to no lynch. As for what happened day 2: I agree that after Thor's lynch, Mala didn't want to bus. But if Delta is scum, the bus makes sense. Mala and Delta were garnering almost all the votes at that point. What could they do? Having one scum (Mala) bus, and having the other scum (Delta) not bus, seems to be the right move.

Mala and DW were literally the only wagons. how would have making one scum bus and the other not bus allowed them to get out of it? why wouldn't they, for instance, attempt to push a counterwagon on someone like Egg in order to save both of them?

and I still don't understand why Mala tries to lynch DW (the 2nd-to-last scum) when there's a confirmed RB+bodyguard in the game. attempting to face that solo is still suicide for scum

Couple that with Egg's apparent not caring about his impending lynch (though admittedly, that could just be scum trying to bluff his way out of it)

honestly, this is the only reason I'd consider voting DW. people seem to be saying that Egg looks town for his recent posts. I'm not quite as sure although I do think his latest posts look kinda town, but I have paranoid thoughts every now and then.

this just makes me come back to thinking it's just Boon and we're sitting here WIFOM'ing ourselves over nothing

[Trojan Horse]

I think I'm calming down now. But my mind isn't changing.

DW would have had Boon/Egg as the two mislynches already. he doesn't need to go out of his way to line you up for _another_ lynch.

It does give him an extra option for getting that last mislynch. But you're right, it's not all that necessary.

Mala and DW were literally the only wagons. how would have making one scum bus and the other not bus allowed them to get out of it? why wouldn't they, for instance, attempt to push a counterwagon on someone like Egg in order to save both of them?

and I still don't understand why Mala tries to lynch DW (the 2nd-to-last scum) when there's a confirmed RB+bodyguard in the game. attempting to face that solo is still suicide for scum

But Delta DID try to push another wagon. He tried to lynch Boon. What did you think Mala was going to do? Also push Boon? Then Mala and Delta are tied together. Push someone else? Then everyone is going to wonder why neither Mala nor Delta is trying to push the other. If Delta is scum, Mala was kind of stuck there.

this just makes me come back to thinking it's just Boon and we're sitting here WIFOM'ing ourselves over nothing

This worries me. I really don't want to lose to Boonscum. But I think Boon is town.

Note: I will hop back onto Egg or Boon if necessary to avoid a no lynch. (Egg would be a better choice than Boon.) But I'd rather lynch Delta.

[pieguyn]

But Delta DID try to push another wagon. He tried to lynch Boon. What did you think Mala was going to do? Also push Boon? Then Mala and Delta are tied together. Push someone else? Then everyone is going to wonder why neither Mala nor Delta is trying to push the other. If Delta is scum, Mala was kind of stuck there.

yes, that is kind of the point

if both of the scum are being wagoned, of course they need to do more than they usually would in order to get out of it. it would draw attention to them, yes, but it's still better than the alternative (going into N2 with only one scum left).

it's somewhat high risk, but necessary

also, to be honest, I really don't think it would have been *that* obvious this is what they were doing. you'd be surprised at the kind of crap you can get away with as scum- even *if* one of {Mala, DW} flipped, people might not make the connection and instead think DW is just a counterwagon to Mala. and if neither did, people might not figure it out at all.

[Trojan Horse]

if both of the scum are being wagoned, of course they need to do more than they usually would in order to get out of it. it would draw attention to them, yes, but it's still better than the alternative (going into N2 with only one scum left).

it's somewhat high risk, but necessary

So this is also why you think Boon is likelier scum than Egg? Because if Egg were scum, he would've made more of an effort to save Mala? (Egg was #4 on Mala. Boon stayed on Delta.)

*sigh*

I've asked my teammates if they think I'm crazy. We'll see what they say.

[pieguyn]

I don't think you're crazy. like, I think Egg looks town, and I can at least see what you're saying here - and although I don't think it's indicative of anything, I do wish DW *would* have done more up to this point so that we could have more to judge him off of. but like

it doesn't make any sense for Mala to have bussed DW in the way that she did if both of them were scum

[Boonskiies]

you can just fucking lynch me. It'll show that I'm town, and not result in my being autolynched tomorrow if we lynch wrong toDay. Also, @Pie, not everyone is you. In that situation, and if delta were my scum buddy, I absolutely would have done that specifically because people would be acting like you are. You are so easily controlled to tunnel on those kind of things.

[pieguyn]

and then, in any gamestate where jason doesn't derp and make an obviously incorrect play, you lose the game

so we're at an impasse

[Boonskiies]

Pie just can't get over the possibility of losing to ScumBoon, so she's not going to change her vote Trojan. She's just tunneling with a stick up her butt so she doesn't have to do any actual work. GuyInFreezer wanted me to tell her to stop being lazy since she will probably be the kill toNight anyways. Although, if I was scum, I feel it'd be smart to keep her alive considering how bad she's playing toDay.

[pieguyn]

uh... lol

even if the rest of the rest of that post made any sense, I don't believe GIF says that line in particular to me. if he wanted to appeal to me, he would not have chosen that specific line or gone about it in that way

I think you just made it up.

[Boonskiies]

I paraphrased. I was told to tell Pie to stop being lazy. Only two days left, and you're probably going to be killed. Your time for redemption is now.


That's closer to what he said; the rest was me.

[Trojan Horse]

Pie just can't get over the possibility of losing to ScumBoon, so she's not going to change her vote Trojan. She's just tunneling with a stick up her butt so she doesn't have to do any actual work. GuyInFreezer wanted me to tell her to stop being lazy since she will probably be the kill toNight anyways. Although, if I was scum, I feel it'd be smart to keep her alive considering how bad she's playing toDay.

And Boon is once again making it hard for me not to vote for him... sigh...

If sthar has no interest in lynching Delta, then I'll give it up for now. But let's see what he says.