Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[Plessiez]

Khel, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the people who are FOSing you right now: in particular Vampaneze, DeathSauce and somestrangeflea.

I'd also be interested to know how you'd rank the three of them as suspects in relation to each other.

[DeathSauce]

Ok sorry I forgot about my first post, he had done town stuff! So I haven't really had a sudden change it just I was lacking organization! So screw the second reason! Really I

was

supicious of Khel, then he did something I thought was scummy! And now I'm going to

FoS: Khelvaster

! Hope that answers all questions!

What did he do that you thought was scummy? All you said earlier was that he hadn't "done anything in the town's interest".

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

SeraphicMirth replaces Hyphen-ated effective immediately.

8th Vote Count of Day 1

somestrangeflea - 1 (WeyounsLastClone)
death_omen - 3 (Khelvaster, vampyrusddg, Muerrto)

Not Voting:

- 8 (death_omen, DeathSauce, Hjallti, Hyphen-ated, Malchonn, Plessiez, somestrangeflea, VampaneseHunter)

7 to Lynch

[somestrangeflea]

Welcome. What are your thoughts on current and not-so-current events?

[SeraphicMirth]

Hi all. I haven't read at all yet but I did want to pop in and let ya know I'm here. I'm going out to dinner shortly but I will post later tonight for sure!

[Malchonn]

Welcome new person!

Khelv Wrote #185

Well, the mod obviously wouldn't go through night without all the scum being there. So, if we finish d1 before he gets replacements, we will know that none of the afkers are scum. Similarly, if he delays before getting replacements, we will know at least one of them are scum. Does this make sense?

First off, Khelv I don't think you should try and play the Mod, this one is tricksie. How do you know he wouldn't go to a night without a Scum active, if we would have rushed a lynch there would be no opportunity for him to replace so it would prove nothing, so either way he is going to do what he wants.

Secondly, One quick question

for Plessiez

...

Pless Wrote #200

Khel, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the people who are FOSing you right now: in particular Vampaneze, DeathSauce and somestrangeflea.

I'd also be interested to know how you'd rank the three of them as suspects in relation to each other.

Just wondering why you left out Vampddg and Hjalllti, they both FoS'd Khelv recently too. Lurkers/AFKers are people too.

[Hjallti]

@Malchonn:I guess I will added to the list when I have made my reasons more clear: At this point Khel just has to answer: Well Hjallti just read through quick so his opinion is not that interesting anyway, or something a like, and I would not even care to refute that.

[SeraphicMirth]

Alright..this is long..sorry. I just took out notepad and typed out thoughts as I read.


Muerrto's pointing out that he is using WIFOM but goes ahead and uses it anyway is off to me...why say that and then do it? If it is so "pointless" as you say..then....what is the point? Makes me think that perhaps you said it to cover your butt when people started pointing it out. "oh yeah but I SAID that that was what it was". WIFOM may not be scummy in and of itself. but to preface it with your warning is what makes me squint and say "Hmmmm"

Khel's call to put death_omen to a close-to-lynch vote count is concerning to me. Yeah, put the pressure on and then whatever he says - exaggerate it, get the easily swayed voters and it's done? hmmf.


This isn't indicating scum or not..just a personal opinion that popped up.
I think openly calling for a pressure vote is pretty non-efficient. If the person knows it's just a pressure vote that would most likely be recinded or take their response into heavy consideration and mostly have people unvote, then...why bother? I mean..I think people are much more likely to respond to a pressure vote when it's more "real". If you are concerned that they will get lynched, then unvote. I guess that could seem shady and I guess some people could be seen as bandwagoners if the call to pressure isn't out there first, but eh. also, the other side of that is that scum can hide in that vote. OK..back to trying to be of some help..


muerrto - questions like "what would you think of me if I weren't posting as much, yadda yadda" - I'm not that big of a fan of. The fact is, you have posted how you have and bringing hypotheticals like that into play cause distraction, getting the person off of their point, IMO. Kinda scummy.


on death_omen, I completely agree with Machonn's line of questioning in 142.
144 death_omen's response to why he's on WLC is weak, IMO. I sometimes think that if someone has lurked the entire game, it's possible that they aren't just around. Does this save them for the rest of the game? no. Are they helping the town? no. Is that a reason to lynch right now? no. I agree..lurkers need to be watched carefully, but how about we take a harder look at people who are actually playing right now...unless you think everyone posting is town?

also, he isn't really defending himself but just pointing fingers everywhere.

VampHunter says next would be WLC for lurking. Are there not others who were lurking? Was VH not lurking himself up until that point? I just think that's an iffy "next up" choice. Also, they only came on to answer a few light questions and then posts again to just with an agreeance to the fact that scum partners should be found and pressured (yet does not question anyone or bring their own suspicions to the table) and then is asking Pless if their answers were satisfactory -- paranoid that they aren't?

With Khel- I'm tryigng to decide whether Khel just plays really definitively...he takes a theory or suspicion and runs with it, or if he's scum. If he's this definitive..it's not such a good thing. To be so sure right off the bat pretty much that they were scumbuddies and then to keep going on that..eh. In 146 Khel says if town decides that death_omen is not the lynch today, he'll stop arguing. Then he says later that he's 100% sure death_omen is scum. Why would you give up then? And then at the end you urge town to lynch him. Who else do you think is suspicious? Why have you dropped muerrto if you were so convinced they're scumbuddies?
However, Khel's reasoning in 156 makes a lot of sense and matches his actions. So..I dunno.
You have such strong conviction that death_omen is scum. Could you make a comprehensive posts with all your reasons why? You just seem so sure and it's not as clear to the rest of us since it hasn't caught on.

Khel 160 - now you're ok with slowing down the lynch??


Omen is still under scrutiny but not saying much.
Also...he said he'd claim if it came to it and then says he gives up because we are unpersuadable. If you have a role, why give up so easily? Also, why bring it up so early when you weren't under nearly as much pressure as you are now? Odd.

Muerrto - good points in 177.

VH - 189..again, just posts to support someone else's ideas and then throws out "he hasn't done anything to help the town" and that's IT? Khel has posted a ton. No other thoughts on what he has said? Suspicious things to back your feeling that he is scum?
Pless 191 - yep yep yep

Khel's 197 - are you for real making that an argument against vamp?? lol I really laughed at that. I dunno..I've never seen scum mess up that blatantly...you're making a stretch there and that seems scummy to me.


First days are hard for me, and I'm not great at this..so don't take it TOO seriously. Here's my potential scum list from what I see. I don't think it helps the situation much though.. I'm in the same mass of unsurity as most everyone seems to be..my observations don't definitively tell me who's scum or not..:-/

My suspicions:
death_omen
muerrto
Khel
**VampHunter -- I think they have been particularly shady. "Sorry I forgot my earlier post" "lack of organization"...uhhhh yeeaahh - a scum that can't keep up with their storyline it seems like to me. I think that is huge.

It matters not to me if they were against each other in posts. I've only played one other game on this forum and in that game I saw so much scum distancing and then flat out scumfights that ended badly. So, I know scum do argue against each other.

This is my first-read-through general feeling type of thing. I haven't re-read through so my post could state stuff or have questions that were already answered that I missed. I want to do a more in-depth look at death_omen and khel's posts separately and then I may even cast a vote. But, it's after midnight and I do have to work all day tomorrow so that will have to wait. Usually I'm not working but it came up..so most of the time I will be contributing the best I can and oftenish

[Plessiez]

One quick question

for Plessiez

...

Pless Wrote #200

Khel, I'd appreciate your thoughts on the people who are FOSing you right now: in particular Vampaneze, DeathSauce and somestrangeflea.

Just wondering why you left out Vampddg and Hjalllti, they both FoS'd Khelv recently too. Lurkers/AFKers are people too.

I don't really have any feel for Vampryus or Hjallti yet, so while I wouldn't mind hearing what Khel has to say about them, it would interest me more to hear about the other three, as I've spent a bit more time looking at them.

[Hjallti]

Questions:

1) What do you think of WLC? Was he "jumpy"?
2) Do you think Khel was right to suggest that Muerrto was feeding death_omen lines?
3) Assuming you answered either of the above questions, why did you not make your thoughts known at the time?
4) What are your thoughts on what's happenened in the game over the last week?

1) No, I think he added to fast (see time stamps: 44-45) the random bit to do it with a purpose... it's like 'oh I forget the word random, I'll do it know' I can imagine he thought he shouldn't have done it the moment he hit submit, but then decided not to tell this because it might make it worse.
2) I don't think Muerrto was feeding lines, but I can imagine Khelvaster getting upset that the wrong player answered, but it is no scumtell from Muerrto (nor from Khelvaster)
3) Pretty much because the answers are no so the accusitions were (maybe not intended) reaction testers. I was looking to (positive) reactions. Giving a negative reaction might both kill the proces and again be a case of providing lines, both are not in the towns interest
4) I am now half way down the game (as you see). The rest is coming up as well.

[Hjallti]

This summary is just reading through and trying to pick out the important things, I think I read to slow and intense, I only got to page 5. The rest will be for tomorrow I'm afraid. Anyway I have something here so I post it anyway. blanks means nothing really note worthy

death_omen
(42) gives first suspecions with apparently a good reason that is no reason at all. (66) says that it was a reaction test, I am happy with that.
(around 96-97) I don't like this death_omen - muerrto fighting. I would feel it distancing. (temporary vote? like in: 'only for day 1' or 'only intill you're lynched'?)
(116-120) gives the same unsatisfying defensive feeling as before


DeathSauce


Hyphen-ated SeraphicMirth


Khelvaster
(45) Khelvaster claims scumbuddies based on 1 post early. If I would have thought they were I would have waited in stead of warning them. Two reasons to do it this way is: warning your both scumbuddies, or trying to make confuse town. Both are scummy. (I know spontenous reaction and reaction test are to others, which makes it weak scumtell)
(63) the answers you gave to this points are not really convincing
(99) I don't like plyers meta gaming thereselfs. That is really WIFOM.

Malchonn


Muerrto

as you know

your role

and if you're scum you know my role

This is only true if Muerto is scum, as scum don't know who is town and who is neutral
By the way as pointed out by others, this whole comment is useless, in any sense. It might be a nice comment in a newbie game, but here it shouldn't have been.
(89)"What other language has like 5 constanants in a row and can still pronounce the word? " 5 is easy I guess, unless you mean within 1 syllable, the best in dutch is 8: "a

ngstschr

eeuw" (scream of terror)
(around 96-97) I don't like this death_omen - muerrto fighting. I would feel it distancing.


Plessiez
(107) he is really investigating... I know you can WIFOM this but it is a towntell

somestrangeflea
(106) Don't know what to make from this but I find it strange (no pun intended):'death_omen appears to be the play ATM anyway...'

VampanezeHunter


vampyrusddg


WeyounsLastClone

[somestrangeflea]

somestrangeflea
(106) Don't know what to make from this but I find it strange (no pun intended):'death_omen appears to be the play ATM anyway...'

I'm new to the terminology, and I always assumed that "being the play" was equivalent to "having/going to get a number of votes, for pressure or otherwise". I now realise that that is in fact wrong.

[VampanezeHunter]

Ok Hi SM(SeraphicMirth) Welcome to da game! Although I may have posted 100+ posts but I'm still relitavley new to this game so I often forget things I've said!

Ok sorry I forgot about my first post, he had done town stuff! So I haven't really had a sudden change it just I was lacking organization! So screw the second reason! Really I

was

supicious of Khel, then he did something I thought was scummy! And now I'm going to

FoS: Khelvaster

! Hope that answers all questions!

What did he do that you thought was scummy? All you said earlier was that he hadn't "done anything in the town's interest".

I think I explained what I thought was scummy but if I didn't then here it is...He might have tried to trick us into quicklynching! But also he has kept on saying D_O is scum. I think Khelv is wrong because although D_O has made a few horrible posts I just think that D_O is a townie that (no offence D_O) is collapsing under pressure! Also if they were both scum they probably would've stopped argueing ages ago, but I could be wrong, but surely by now if he is 100% sure D_O is scum(which he does) he should be searching for other lines of enquiery so we have solid evidence to go on for day2. Now in my eyes that seems scummy.

BTW-sorry 'bout the police lines! Only words I could think of!

[Muerrto]

as you know

your role

and if you're scum you know my role

This is only true if Muerto is scum, as scum don't know who is town and who is neutral

Um I know you said your english isn't great but read that again. I said YOU know YOUR role. As in HE knows HIS role. How's that make me scum? I think you misread that.

[VampanezeHunter]

Muerrto is saying the guy knows his own role and if he is scum he knows Muerrto's role!

[Plessiez]

Oh, honestly.

#189

Anyway although

D_O looks scummy

I think Khel is more scummy.

#212

although D_O has made a few horrible posts

I just think that D_O is a townie

Death_Omen looks scummy in #189 but you think he's a townie by #212? Is that right?

as you know

your role

and if you're scum you know my role

This is only true if Muerto is scum, as scum don't know who is town and who is neutral

Um I know you said your english isn't great but read that again. I said YOU know YOUR role. As in HE knows HIS role. How's that make me scum? I think you misread that.

Nah, I think you (and Vampanese, apparently) are misreading Hjallti's post .

He's saying that if death_omen is scum and if you aren't, he couldn't actually know if you're a pro-town role, or if you were a neutral role (SK, Jester, whatever). This is obviously correct, though I don't think it really changes anything you were saying (pro-town or neutral, he'd know you weren't his scumbuddy).

[VampanezeHunter]

That's it I'm gonna go cry in a corner! *Goes into corner and cries* Man i'm having a bad week! Ok first I thought D_O was scum but now I think otherwise! Seriously I'm bad at this game! Sorry guys!

[somestrangeflea]

Anyone else noticing that D_O looks like a strange smiley...?

[/offtopic]

[VampanezeHunter]

Yes I agree I thought that at first but then decided not to metion it!

[death_omen]

Anyone else noticing that D_O looks like a strange smiley...?

[/offtopic]

If you abbrievate it yes, if you say it like its meant to be said no.

[Hjallti]

as you know

your role

and if you're scum you know my role

This is only true if Muerto is scum, as scum don't know who is town and who is neutral

Um I know you said your english isn't great but read that again. I said YOU know YOUR role. As in HE knows HIS role. How's that make me scum? I think you misread that.

Bolded the wrong part, you shouldn't have typed 'my role'.

[Hjallti]

wouldnit 'death_omen' not be a great name for a smiley featuring a skull like on a pirates flag.

[Hjallti]

EBWOP (I am posting now, before readin SeraphicMirth's post to be sure I don't get influenced.

This summary is just reading through and trying to pick out the important things, I think I read to slow and intense, I only got to page 5, yesterday, I add from page 6.

death_omen
(42) gives first suspecions with apparently a good reason that is no reason at all. (66) says that it was a reaction test, I am happy with that.
(around 96-97) I don't like this death_omen - muerrto fighting. I would feel it distancing. (temporary vote? like in: 'only for day 1' or 'only intill you're lynched'?)
(116-120) gives the same unsatisfying defensive feeling as before
(144) 'Now i feeling a bit of scummy vibes from Khel, he is now asking how many people think i should be lynched out today. He basically wants a retake on the position. Him and his scummy mates are and what to do next, he also wants this day done with which he has hinted.' is major OMGUS on 143
(159) the emotional shouting 'I am town kill Khelvaster' is bad! And if he is town we should conclude Khelvaster is scum (perhaps scum

my

but not scum)

DeathSauce


Hyphen-ated SeraphicMirth


Khelvaster
(45) Khelvaster claims scumbuddies based on 1 post early. If I would have thought they were I would have waited in stead of warning them. Two reasons to do it this way is: warning your both scumbuddies, or trying to make confuse town. Both are scummy. (I know spontenous reaction and reaction test are to others, which makes it weak scumtell)
(63) the answers you gave to this points are not really convincing
(99) I don't like players meta gaming thereselfs. That is really WIFOM.
(141)

I still think Death Omen is the correct play for today.

I don't really like this sentense... 'ATM' rather than 'today' would have been better. Again Khelvaster is very 'certain' of his view. That is indeed a kind of tunnel-thinking that is hurting the town, another proof of what Plessiez noted in post (129), it remains the question whether or not it is a scumtell.
(143) 'Death Omen is using the old scum tactic of diverting attention. He figures that we might go lynch a player who isn't really in this game anymore than lynch him.' ... I miss the 'in my opinion' or the question mark... but again this could be playstyle rather than a scumtell
(156 and others) Do we know there will be only one NK this night? In the not newbie games I played here it was usually 2 first night... a mislynch, as Khelvaster proposes as risk could bring us to 3 scum/ 5town / 1neutr.
Maybe that gives us SK-tell from Khelvaster!


Malchonn


Muerrto

as you know your role and if you're scum you know

my role

This is only true if Muerto is scum, as scum don't know who is town and who is neutral, but this is not a scumtell, as people already added.
By the way as pointed out by others, this whole comment is useless, in any sense. It might be a nice comment in a newbie game, but here it shouldn't have been,

as a matter of fact, I do think afterwards that it might have been added intented to give us the impression that it is true, giving him a free ride when turns out scum, but it would only have worked if nobody jumped on it

.
(89)"What other language has like 5 constanants in a row and can still pronounce the word? " 5 is easy I guess, unless you mean within 1 syllable, the best in dutch is 8: "a

ngstschr

eeuw" (scream of terror)
(around 96-97) I don't like this death_omen - muerrto fighting. I would feel it distancing.


Plessiez
(107) he is really investigating... I know you can WIFOM this but it is a towntell
(131) is really a nice example of genuine investigation


somestrangeflea


VampanezeHunter


vampyrusddg


WeyounsLastClone



I do think a Khelvaster-death_omen combo is possible. If only one is scum which one? I'm inclined to say Khelvaster.

vote:Khelvaster

[DeathSauce]

Mod

: Could we see a vote count pretty please?

Added it to my post near the top of this page. Sorry thought I had done one for page 9.

[Vel-Rahn Koon]

Nelly632 replaces WeyounsLastClone effective immediately.