death_omen
Again, I would like a response to the questions I asked in
#131 . Even if you have nothing to say, a simple "I don't feel like answering those questions" would be better than nothing. As it is, I'm getting a feeling you're not even bothering to read my posts (which is, if nothing else, a crushing blow to my ego).
Furthermore, if you
are
pro-town, giving up and refusing to defend yourself or present any actual case against people beyond "OMG, Khel wants me lynched even though I'm pro-town! He must be scumm!!1!" is not helpful. You have all of four votes on you right now; despite what Khel might say, your lynch is certainly not inevitable. But it's your job to find somebody better to lynch today, whether by explaining your actions better or by pointing to suspicious behaviour and explaining why you think it's scummy.
Khel
:
Muerrto and flea already did a decent job responding to your post
#151. To avoid repeating things they said, I'll just focus on one or two of your comments
Khelvaster wrote:Since I see Death Omen as definitely being todays lynch, barring a flat-out scumclaim from someone else, the replacement could speak up tomorrow without any problems.
Oh, so you know for sure that the replacement won't be killed tonight? Interesting...
Khelvaster wrote:It saves time to lynch Death Omen now, and look for partners tomorrow. That way, if he is town, we can immediately jump on some other leads.
Please explain what these “other leads” are. Since you don't want the day to continue, you must already have some potential leads in mind, yes? So I'd like to know who you'd suggest we look at if death_omen comes up town. A list of two or three 'leads' would be nice, I think.
(Looking at the NK and using
that
alone to get leads is, I shouldn't have to tell you,
pure
WIFOM. The scum get to decide who dies, so any information we get from the NK is information that
scum wanted us to have
. Information we get ourselves -- by discussion, voting, or whatever -- is certainly prefer to 'information' of such dubious origin).
Also ... I'm not sure how much I believe this myself yet (see my comment about wanting to spot 'clever' play by the scum over more likely scumtells in
#129), but I feel like pointing out that I'm a bit worried about the possibility of a Khel-omen pairing. Definitely see a few things that could point in that direction:
1) Khel goes after Muerrto, and not death_omen, in
#45 ... why?
I first pointed this out in
#73, but it's worth a quick recap. In short, Khel states that death_omen has said something “really scummy”. And yet he places his vote not on death_omen, who uttered the “really scummy line”, but on Muerrto, who simply gave him a way out of it (by suggesting it might have been a joke). Leaving aside the fact that I don't feel the line in question
was
particularly scummy, I really don't understand why you'd want to vote for somebody who you suspect of
defending
somebody you think has said something scummy over somebody who
actually said
something you think is really scummy.
(I should note, to be fair, that Khel addresses this in
#111. Suffice to say I'm not convinced by his explanaition.)
Of course,
if
Khel is scum and partnered with death_omen, and Muerrto is town, it's certainly in Khel's interest to get Muerrto lynched today, thus 'clearing' his partner omen.
2) Khel jumps on death_omen as soon as he sees
#96 ... or does he?
In fact, Khel firsts posted something completely unrelated, in
#99, and only after twenty minutes or so did he realise he'd missed death_omen's vote and accuse him because of it. Or so Khel says, anyway. I'd suggest it's also possible that Khel saw the vote, and needed that time to decide whether or not he could safely ignore it. If he thought there was a significant chance that other people would jump on death_omen for that (I'd argue that there was indeed such a chance – it's a extremely bad reason to vote for somebody, and we didn't need Khel to point this out), then he could well have decided that death_omen was doomed whatever he did, and that by being the first on the wagon he'd win himself some credibility for the rest of the game.
I accept this is the weakest part of my theory, of course. I don't know Khel well enough to know if he's the sort of player would abandon a partner like that on day 1 (certainly I know some players who wouldn't hesitate to do so, but then I know a few who'd never even consider it). But I'd suggest it seems to fit with what we've seen of Khel's playstyle in this game – whether he's a pro-town player who jumps on the smallest of comments and sticks to theories he formed early in day 1 despite their unpopularity, or scum who cuts loose a partner to make himself seem more pro-town ... he's clearly that sort of decisive and self-confident player.
3) Khel seems convinced that death_omen is scum ... what does he know that we don't?
This, I think, doesn't need much in the way of clarification. The only way that
anybody
can know on day 1 that anybody else is scum is if they are partners.
4) Khel is determined to end the day without discussion... why?
Discussion, as has been said already, is good for the town. What would happen if we speed-lynched omen today and he came up scum?
Well, we'd have one less scum to worry about, certainly. But we'd have no leads to go on to find his partners (Khel's on record as saying that
he'd go after Muerrto because of the 'link' he spotted on page 2, but frankly this seems rather absurd. Day 2 lynches should not be decided on the basis of posts made one the second page of the game). And come day 2, we'd be down one pro-town player. Really, if you take death_omen's lynch as inevitable (and certainly, Khel seems to think it is), this is the
ideal
way for things to go from the point of view of scum.
5) (See above) Khel seems sure that if WLC (or any other lurker) is replaced today, his replacement won't be killed ... why?
If Khel is town, he's just making assumptions without thinking things through properly, which is certainly possible. But if Khel's scum, this could either be a genuine slip – that is, Khel might already know that he'll be killing somebody else, so he knows the replacement will survive the night – or an attempt at misdirection - that is, Khel knows he
will
kill the replacement, to stop us even trying to “analyse the NK” (I don't think there's much benefit in doing so anyway, personally, but clearly Khel feels differently).
6) death_omen is making a big deal of having us go after Khel tomorrow ... why would scum do that?
If omen comes up scum, we certainly won't be lynching Khel tomorrow ... but then, if omen is partnered with Khel, that would be precisely the point.
... well, yeah, as I said, I'm not sure how likely this is yet. By themselves, none of thes points mean very much – it's only in combination that they start to seem suspicious. But I'm definitely not convinced that it
isn't
true, and I think the possibility is something worth bearing in mind in future.
Malchonn:
I did indeed describe Khel's obsession as 'rather irritating' – I've also said why I find it so. Briefly, I feel that his behaviour is hurting the town
whether or not death_omen is scum
. By stifling discussion of anybody but omen, he's either preventing us from having
any
further lead on scum (assuming omen comes up as pro-town), or preventing us from having any leads on omen's partners (assuming omen comes up scum). I really can't see why he wants to do this (though obviously I have a few ideas...).
However, none of that is likely to prevent me from voting for omen today. I'd certainly prefer we discussed things more today, and that the quieter players (or their replacements) were given time to speak up, but barring anybody doing something more scummy than omen's
#96 and subsequent behaviour, I think we should probably end the day by lynching him. That's not set in stone though, and I naturally reserve the right to vote for somebody else if something they say when I question them makes me think they're a better prospect for being scum.
. Seriously though, that advice, while very good, makes it seem like you already know I'm not scum...Still, this is tenuous at best, so I am not pursuing you further atm. Death Omen is still much worse in my eyes.
