Tailor could self-target, in my opinion.
What you're saying about the 1-shots is right, however, your new version is not good either. There may be Setups with 4 Town-PRs and a massclaim on Day1 might break the game. Claiming a 1-Shot Bodyguard instantly is not all that bad anyway: the town would know more about the Setup and the Bodyguard could die easily even without the claim.
Alternatively this could be done, is a little less elegant:
P - 2-Shot Bodyguard
PP - Bodyguard
PPP - Jailkeeper
PPPP - Jailkeeper + 2-Shot Bodyguard
PPPPP - Jailkeeper + Bodyguard
In this case only the 1-Shot Bodyguard knows the Setup distribution in PPPP.
Also, I've just noticed that the Cop and the Tracker follows the same scheme – although it's not a real disadvantage for having a Tracker, because of the Framer/Tailor pair.
Are we sure that a Tailor is stronger in this Setup than a Framer? If not, the M Tailor and the MM Framer might be swapped for more WIFOM.
1. All Mafia 2-shot RB + Goon setups are incredibly scum-sided. At worst, it's 2v7 mountainous.
2. Framer and Tailor are a shitty counterbalance because it only counters the cop. They're negative utility in tracker-only setups.
3. Bodyguard isn't a real PR.
@Anen
Tailor is stronger than framer as he can choose to make his partner look innocent for a night.
I also need to mention that the first three letters have to have only 1 PR. Otherwise 4 PR setups can happen.
@Bob
1. The point is, nobody knows that this setup is active. Scum don't know wether there's a PR at all. It's basically a 2v7 mountainous which isn't unbalanced at all. The chances of 5 M's being rolled are 1/32. Unlikely, the chance for 4 M's is 1/16. Also low. It's hard to be scum-sided when most of the scum's actions do nothing. Especially when they have to decide between a roleblock or a frame as killing costs an action. You can get this same situation in C9++. 3 Goons vs 10 VT's I believe.
2. It's only meant to counter the cop, trackers already have the drawback of not knowing wether they targeted town PR or scum.
3. And doctors are too powerful. They can save an investigative, they're fine.
In post 8134, wgeurts wrote:1. The point is, nobody knows that this setup is active.
This makes the setup more scum-sided.
Scum don't know wether there's a PR at all. It's basically a 2v7 mountainous which isn't unbalanced at all.
It is.
The chances of 5 M's being rolled are 1/32. Unlikely, the chance for 4 M's is 1/16. Also low. It's hard to be scum-sided when most of the scum's actions do nothing.
...because there aren't any PRs to mess with.
Especially when they have to decide between a roleblock or a frame as killing costs an action. You can get this same situation in C9++. 3 Goons vs 10 VT's I believe.
Doesn't C9++ fix that with a serial killer?
2. It's only meant to counter the cop, trackers already have the drawback of not knowing wether they targeted town PR or scum.
My point is that when town get an extra tracker scum get a negative utility in return. That's just not fair.
3. And doctors are too powerful. They can save an investigative, they're fine.
There doesn't have to be an investigative. It's certainly not a substitute for a cop.
Bob, framer/tailor are far from negative utility. They don't even have to use them as the framer can just be used for kills. Rather some ability than none.
As for there being no PR's to mess with, yeah then they've got a roleblocker and a goon in those situations. Roleblocker's just there for that 1 possible PR. It's a mountainous in effect with a very slight deviation, however the chances of it happening are low.
1 SK, 3 Mafia Goons and 9 VT's isn't fun either. And that can happen in C9++. It's in general a flaw fot most semi-open setups. A flaw that will rarely occur.
And if you saw I increased the likelyhoods of JK's appearing, they certainly are a good replacement for the cop. I've also started thinking of adding and IC, if you look above.
Even with the Framer, a setup with two cops or two trackers can end up clearing a lot of townies fairly quickly. Say a cop is L-1 D2 and claims with his innocent, that other cop now knows 4 players are without a doubt town. He could claim and it'd be pretty easily a town victory.
Hence there's a roleblocker, honestly the same goes for C9++. There are situations where you get Godfather, Roleblocker, Goon, 3 Cops and 7 Vanilla Townies. It's unlikely however that those are ever rolled though.