Mini 466 - Game Over

[ryan]

Don't throw your guilt onto someone else, ryan. Don't bring attention away from yourself. You were the one to hammer. You were the one who was convincing people to hammer on AmeliaLi before.

I didn't convince anyone to vote Nano, I felt the claim was fake and wasn't the only one, I'm not taking the brunt for this lynch. As far as AmeliaLi, what does she have to do with anything at this point? She isn't lynched, she's still alive. Being the one to hammer doesn't finger me guilty, I'm sure not going to justify myself to you, one of the scummiest players in this game so far.

[ryan]

I also do not buy ryan’s (I miscounted the votes statement)..then the vote on Lowell? what happened to klop? Are you hoping for another quick lynch?

Fos Ryan

Go back through the vote counts right before Nano was lynched and tell me how you "don't buy" my claim. I went back through and made a miscalculation on my vote count, you can call me a liar if you choose, but I didn't miscalculate on purpose. Klopy is still on my radar but I feel strongly that Lowell is now our choice, if you re-read through the game you'll see why I feel that way, it's right there in black and white.

[curiouskarmadog]

you mean beside Lowell, who your vote is on?

Don't throw your guilt onto someone else, ryan. Don't bring attention away from yourself. You were the one to hammer. You were the one who was convincing people to hammer on AmeliaLi before.

I didn't convince anyone to vote Nano, I felt the claim was fake and wasn't the only one, I'm not taking the brunt for this lynch. As far as AmeliaLi, what does she have to do with anything at this point? She isn't lynched, she's still alive. Being the one to hammer doesn't finger me guilty, I'm sure not going to justify myself to you, one of the scummiest players in this game so far.

[curiouskarmadog]

Go back through the vote counts right before Nano was lynched and tell me how you "don't buy" my claim. I went back through and made a miscalculation on my vote count, you can call me a liar if you choose, but I didn't miscalculate on purpose. Klopy is still on my radar but I feel strongly that Lowell is now our choice, if you re-read through the game you'll see why I feel that way, it's right there in black and white.

Please provide posts (and post numbers) before the lynch stating why you feel Lowell deserves a lynch. Then I can show you 5x that where you were going after klop. I can also show that you hammered a Doc...I think you chose Lowell because you knew I (and others) highly suspected him. I think it is interesting how you and Gatorguy both voted Nano so quickly for a lynch. I think it is interesting how you and Gatorguy are the first two votes for Lowell now, when pre lynch you pushed heavily for an Amel and klop lynch…..pre lynch I felt Lowell was the scummiest…not now…

Unvote Jester..FoS Jester

….I would love to hear from him at this point. And

FoS Gatorguy

, what are YOUR reasons you feel Lowell should be lynched in Day 2

If you stuck by your hammer and said, "yeah, I thought Nano was scummy and deserved the lynch", I might have believed you…but for someone who picks apart everyone’s posts in detail, I find your excuse of a miscount and out and out LIE…

Vote Ryan

[Numenorean7]

@ryan
You haven't cleared this up yet:

ryan, I don't get your post 589. It sounds like you are accusing Lowell of flip-flopping, but that doesn't make sense. Are you accusing him of pushing the lynch? If so, I don't think anyone can be blamed for lynching Nano. Everyone believed that his claim was fake.

Also, are you saying you missed this:

You're claiming doc at L-3?

[Sir Tornado]

CKD: I genuinely missed Num7 voting for Nano. I thought he was after Klop at that time (although he had mentioned earlier that he would go for either Klop or Nano). I got that impression because Num7 was attacking Klop for some time before I made that post.

And, in I would say that Nano and Lowell were not quite similar on D1. Nano was here, but he wasn't posting. Lowell was away, due to which he was not posting. But, now, I think the "away" thing is really getting a bit out of hand. Lowell, please post or ask for a replacement or be prepared to get lynched, because you have a lot to answer here.

You could start with explaining your (opportunistic) vote on Nano.

And ryan, you still haven't explained your WIFOM comment on D1, which has been pointed out by no less than 3 people.

[ryan]

Go back through the vote counts right before Nano was lynched and tell me how you "don't buy" my claim. I went back through and made a miscalculation on my vote count, you can call me a liar if you choose, but I didn't miscalculate on purpose. Klopy is still on my radar but I feel strongly that Lowell is now our choice, if you re-read through the game you'll see why I feel that way, it's right there in black and white.

Please provide posts (and post numbers) before the lynch stating why you feel Lowell deserves a lynch. Then I can show you 5x that where you were going after klop. I can also show that you hammered a Doc...I think you chose Lowell because you knew I (and others) highly suspected him. I think it is interesting how you and Gatorguy both voted Nano so quickly for a lynch. I think it is interesting how you and Gatorguy are the first two votes for Lowell now, when pre lynch you pushed heavily for an Amel and klop lynch…..pre lynch I felt Lowell was the scummiest…not now…

Unvote Jester..FoS Jester

….I would love to hear from him at this point. And

FoS Gatorguy

, what are YOUR reasons you feel Lowell should be lynched in Day 2

If you stuck by your hammer and said, "yeah, I thought Nano was scummy and deserved the lynch", I might have believed you…but for someone who picks apart everyone’s posts in detail, I find your excuse of a miscount and out and out LIE…

Vote Ryan

I felt the claim was bogus and that is why I went with my vote. I'm a pro town player who made a mistake with my vote count on Nano and am willing to take the heat for it, although I'm not taking 100% blame. It was a screwup and not somebody looking for opportunity to lynch a townie. We have ZERO confirmed scum at this time (although I do believe unless I'm misreading this person's posts that we do have one scum who has been confirmed by an "investigation") I see Lowell as scum who came out of hiding, dropped a vote and than vanished. I still believe Kloppy to be scum along with Lowell, AmeliaLi for now in my eyes is looking like pro town, I'm not 100% sure on the 3rd right now but after our night session I feel confident about 2 scum.

[ryan]

@ryan
You haven't cleared this up yet:

ryan, I don't get your post 589. It sounds like you are accusing Lowell of flip-flopping, but that doesn't make sense. Are you accusing him of pushing the lynch? If so, I don't think anyone can be blamed for lynching Nano. Everyone believed that his claim was fake.

Also, are you saying you missed this:

You're claiming doc at L-3?

Yes I'm accusing of him of coming out of hiding, dropping a vote and than vanishing. I believe at least two scum were on the Nano bandwagon.

[Jester]

OK, want to open by apologizing to Nano. I was completely wrong about him. All I can say in my own defense is that he was playing very suspiciously, and as I said, role-claiming doctor is absolutely never a good idea. The avalanche really came down on him after that, but again, I accept my share of the blame (which is a large one). He was playing very suspiciously, and given the same style of play, I'd probably vote the same way again. I'll have to think about that before my hext game; it just never occured to me that the doctor would play by making so many zero-content posts. It certainly isn't the way I've played when I've been the doctor.

Mitigating that, though, I'm glad my guess that Fireball was a tonwie was on. That makes me feel slightly better.

I'd also like more info from Jester, who thought he for sure was going to be night killed (which I found interesting)

I was instrumental in finding mafia very early in two prior games, once on day one, once on day two, and was immediately night-killed thereafter. This felt like it was gonna be a similar situation. I wanted to get my suspicions about Lowell out there in case that was going to happen, plus my comments about your play style in my 582. I haven't survived a full game of Mafiascum yet. I'm always either lynched or night-killed, probably because I'm so vocal.

Poor Nano. If he hadn't claimed, he probably wouldn't have been lynched anytime soon. Perhaps he wouldn't have been lynched at all.

Yeah. :/ That definitely started an avalanche, like I said. Jumped from L-3 to dead in something like two hours, which in this particular (incredibly slow-paced) game was very unusual and a little scary.

In particular, I find the way Lowell appeared just after Nano claimed to be very scummy. It seems to be evidence of true lurking, not just inactivity forced by real life.

Yep, pointed out the same thing in my 569. He still hasn't answered the flood of questions directed at him.

If he's pro-town, why not let the real doctor decide who to protect? I would like to hear some comment/explanation from Jester on this.

See above. It didn't even occur to me that the doctor might protect me, honestly. I'm not the cop, and I would have hoped that the doctor was looking for the cop.

Now that Nano and MFB are confirmed town, I've looked back over their posts to try and get some leads. I didn't get a whole lot.

There was nothing to get from Nano's posts. Like I said, he pretty much said nothing in them. As for Fireball, in my experience, the first night-kill by experienced scum (which it looks like is what we're after here) is pretty much random. The only thing that stick out at me regarding Fireball's posts were his defense of CKD in his 417 and 449 and his attack on Lowell in his 449.

Post 70?!? Jester does a coin toss between two “quiet” people Nano and myself..and his vote never changed. Interesting. It also should be noted that Jester thinks Nano and I are quiet at this point (even though I had several posts) He does not put Lowell in this category even though the only posts Lowell has provided were two voting posts with no explanations.

Incredibly not true. I added Lowell to my suspect list in my post 98 based on a pointer from Numenorean, put a FOS on him in my 142 and 371, and commented extensively about my suspcions of him in my 569. He's definitely on my suspect list, as are you. My vote for Nano in my post 70 was intended to "wake him up" and make him start participating in the game. It was what he said (or didn't say) after that that made him my #1 suspect.

Post 98: Jester mentions he has no concrete opinion on Nano or ST (again he leaves Lowell off this list)

Also incredibly not true. My post 98

opens

with me putting Lowell on my suspect list.

212: Jester mentions again that Nano is quiet. Requests that Indy be replaced. Jester is “comfortable” with a lynch on Nano or myself. Jester feels that Nano deserves a lynch for being quiet, but Lowell has not said enough to form an opinion??? How much more content has Lowell posted than Nano at this point? To answer your question: NONE!

Also not true. I invite anyone who's interested in this accusation to read my 212. Here's a link to it:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=212
By 212, it wasn't that Nano had said nothing. Nano had said things, but they were either zero content posts or suspicious things. As I stated later, I found his 154 particularly suspicious. On that same day, Lowell had said he was going to participate by creating a long post, a promise that he broke. His breaking of that promise caused me to add a FOS on him in my 371. Meanwhile, you have never answered or addressed the suspicions I raised about

you

in my very same 212. Would you care to do that now?

373: Jester: References me as being an evil genius…says that if he had two votes I would get the second. States Nano is the most scummiest player here for lurking (100% sure).90% sure I am scum. Gut feeling is Indy is first time scum. He would like Lowell to actually post something (but he is doing the exact same thing Nano is, interesting). He think ryan, Num, and Fireball townies.

Virtually every sentence in this summation is a lie. Here is a link to my 371 for those that want to read it:
http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopi ... &start=371
Again, I voted for Nano and held my vote there

not

because he was lurking. Nano

wasn't

lurking. He was posting, and rather frequently by that time. But his posts were full of nothing. The fact that you think Lowell and Nano were doing the same thing is simply not true.

You've been after Lowell since your post 131, and have never said why. If anyone here is looking to lynch lurkers, it's you, not me. Every time I spot someone lurking, I've been asking them to post/participate, not voting for them.

Jesus….Well, on the reread I think Jester is the one that lead the bandwagon…he was 100% sure that Nano was scum..and he never let up…of course now he is quiet….

I don't get on this board on the weekends, by and large, except to post a quick comment. I checked in Friday afternoon and Saturday afternoon, and when there was nothing on the board either time, I didn't return until this morning.

And I'm caught up. My FOS on Lowell and curiouskarmadog remain, Numenorean is my most likely townie, followed by Sir Tornado and AmeliaLi. ryan drops off that list for me; I'm much less sanguine about him. ryan, I'd like you to actually respond to my 582. Other than that, since my suspicion of Nano was so wrong, I'm gonna take a bit of a back seat accusing anyone directly or voting and listen to what other people have to say for a bit.

[ryan]

How is that WIFOM?

Yeah, I didn't get that, either. ryan, you haven't answered this one yet. The "W" in WIFOM doesn't stand for "whining."

Than I guess I was just educated. I've always played that WIFOM stood for "whine in front of me" and I thought there was a bunch of whining and woah is me chat in that post.

[Numenorean7]

And, in I would say that Nano and Lowell were not quite similar on D1. Nano was here, but he wasn't posting. Lowell was away, due to which he was not posting. But, now, I think the "away" thing is really getting a bit out of hand. Lowell, please post or ask for a replacement or be prepared to get lynched, because you have a lot to answer here.

QFT
Until he gets back and posts something reasonable (and, depending on the content of that post, perhaps longer)

Vote: Lowell

although I do believe unless I'm misreading this person's posts that we do have one scum who has been confirmed by an "investigation"

What do you mean by this?

I was looking briefly over the recent pages, and I'm uncomfortable with ryan's behavior in his argument with AmeliaLi from 529 to 554. For one thing, AmeliaLi was right: he was trying to get AmeliaLi or klopyrev lynched. That's what he does. Why not just admit it? Ryan gets very excited over this relatively trivial point.

FoS: ryan

[ryan]

Listen, if by some chance AmeliaLi isn't scum (which is now possible) or if Klopy turns up town (doubtful) I'll admit to being wrong BUT that doesn't make me more scum than the first person to vote for somebody who is lynched. I am not a "ringleader" or "you gotta vote for (insert name)" I read through posts, I determine who I believe to be scum, I post comments made by said player and I give the town an opportunity to agree or disagree with my statements.

As for the question you posted, (without trying to sound like I'm hiding) read back through and you will also see what I believe to see, without a doc I don't want to say anything more than this.

[Gatorguy91]

[And

FoS Gatorguy

, what are YOUR reasons you feel Lowell should be lynched in Day 2

ok.. this post

You put the hammer down on Nano, unless my personal vote-count is off, so as soon as Kison notices, we're in night. If I'm right about Nano and I'm right about Lowell (not certain by any means, but he's really setting off my radar right now) and were one of their scum-mates, I'd definitely kill me to shut me up.

Of course, it's still possible that I'm totally wrong about one or both.

Twilight FOS Jester

for trying to direct future lynches...

For attacking Nano I'm MORE likely to be scum? What kind of twisted WIFOM is that?

Frankly I led the charge against him, and was the first to make sure the real doc didn't claim. How can that make me MORE suspicious?

"Frankly I led the charge against him so how can i be more suspicious" Nano Was the doctor and Lowell claims to have played a key part in lynching him. My vote was looking at the town's wants and thinking they wanted a lynch, which is why i posted this. It's blatantly oubvious that Lowell is scum, FoS: Curiouskarmadog for not realizing that.

[curiouskarmadog]

[And

FoS Gatorguy

, what are YOUR reasons you feel Lowell should be lynched in Day 2

ok.. this post

You put the hammer down on Nano, unless my personal vote-count is off, so as soon as Kison notices, we're in night. If I'm right about Nano and I'm right about Lowell (not certain by any means, but he's really setting off my radar right now) and were one of their scum-mates, I'd definitely kill me to shut me up.

Of course, it's still possible that I'm totally wrong about one or both.

Twilight FOS Jester

for trying to direct future lynches...

For attacking Nano I'm MORE likely to be scum? What kind of twisted WIFOM is that?

Frankly I led the charge against him, and was the first to make sure the real doc didn't claim. How can that make me MORE suspicious?

"Frankly I led the charge against him so how can i be more suspicious" Nano Was the doctor and Lowell claims to have played a key part in lynching him. My vote was looking at the town's wants and thinking they wanted a lynch, which is why i posted this. It's blatantly oubvious that Lowell is scum, FoS: Curiouskarmadog for not realizing that.

you are FoSing me because you voted and did not give an explanation?..also interesting...

[Sir Tornado]

Than I guess I was just educated. I've always played that WIFOM stood for "whine in front of me" and I thought there was a bunch of whining and woah is me chat in that post.

I know what WIFOM stands for, thank you very much. But the point is, that it was not WIFOM (and, both Num7 and Jester agreed with me on that point)

[curiouskarmadog]

also, jester, I have a reply coming...just do not have the time to post it

[ryan]

I never said you didn't know what WIFOM, but you acted as though I didn't. AmeliaLi was whining about me wanting to off her and Klopyboy, it was completely a bunch of whining. I was concerned in finding our scummiest people, but thanks for asking. I'm glad you have two that agree with you, doesn't mean you are right, it's an opinion game ST, I have mine and you have yours, why keep beating this dead horse? You are making no point except badgering over a non important point, move along already.

[AmeliaLi]

Okay. This is such of lovely welcome back.

I never said you didn't know what WIFOM, but you acted as though I didn't. AmeliaLi was whining about me wanting to off her and Klopyboy, it was completely a bunch of whining. I was concerned in finding our scummiest people, but thanks for asking. I'm glad you have two that agree with you, doesn't mean you are right, it's an opinion game ST, I have mine and you have yours, why keep beating this dead horse? You are making no point except badgering over a non important point, move along already.

I'm my view, you seem to be getting a little touchy, ryan.
Question: Why the

hell

do you tell him to stop beating the dead horse, when you do the exact thing?

I was looking briefly over the recent pages, and I'm uncomfortable with ryan's behavior in his argument with AmeliaLi from 529 to 554. For one thing, AmeliaLi was right: he was trying to get AmeliaLi or klopyrev lynched. That's what he does. Why not just admit it?

Ryan gets very excited over this relatively trivial point.

And now his (ryan's) problem is we are starting to go through his posts and really pick them apart.

FOS: Ryan

Just as a note: I'm going to be really busy during this week and might be able to only post once a day, but my promise is to not lurk.

[ryan]

Pick apart my posts all you want AmeliaLi, but constantly bringing up a WIFOM statement isnt doing the town any justice, all it's doing is wasting perfectly good scum hunting on a pro town player. Dissecting posts is one thing, dissecting one statement, hell not even a statement is a waste of time and if you cant see that than you sure as heck aren't doing anything of scum hunting either. I am excitable when I see scum and want them lynched, no lies there, if I wasn't town I wouldn't care, I'd let your trivial comments roll off my back, but since I'm town in this game I'm going to be excitable, I'm going to attack scum, and I'm going to keep them sweating in this game.

[Lowell]

Okay, this is crap.

vote ryan

What exactly are you trying to do here? MANY MANY people didn't believe Nano's claim. We were all wrong, it happens. You have gone from accusing me of NOT PARICIPATING (yesterday) to essentially accusing me of orchestrating a lynch on a powerrole (today). Which is it, chief?

This looks opportunistic at best. Especially since I opened this thread today assuming that I'd have to fend myself off from jester's even more confusing claim that by lynching SCUM I must be scum.

Sir T and Numer- what, exactly, do I have to answer for? Lurking?

[Gatorguy91]

Okay, this is crap.

vote ryan

What exactly are you trying to do here? MANY MANY people didn't believe Nano's claim. We were all wrong, it happens. You have gone from accusing me of NOT PARICIPATING (yesterday) to essentially accusing me of orchestrating a lynch on a powerrole (today). Which is it, chief?

This looks opportunistic at best. Especially since I opened this thread today assuming that I'd have to fend myself off from jester's even more confusing claim that by lynching SCUM I must be scum.

Sir T and Numer- what, exactly, do I have to answer for? Lurking?

Lowell You know You're close to my playing level as scum which is VERY LOW.

[AmeliaLi]

Pick apart my posts all you want AmeliaLi, but constantly bringing up a WIFOM statement isnt doing the town any justice, all it's doing is wasting perfectly good scum hunting on a pro town player. Dissecting posts is one thing, dissecting one statement, hell not even a statement is a waste of time and if you cant see that than you sure as heck aren't doing anything of scum hunting either. I am excitable when I see scum and want them lynched, no lies there, if I wasn't town I wouldn't care, I'd let your trivial comments roll off my back, but since I'm town in this game I'm going to be excitable, I'm going to attack scum, and I'm going to keep them sweating in this game.

A) You keep bringing up the fact that it seems like

you

were the one that brought it (The WIFOM) up in this day, ryan. In post number 609. It hadn't been mentioned today, but for some reason you

had

to post.

B) I'm not the one who was dissecting the WIFOM. I ignored what you had said about me because I had nothing to say to you other than a few choice words.

C)

and if you cant see that than you sure as heck aren't doing anything of scum hunting either

What the hell does that mean? I think you're scum. And this lashing out to all of this makes me wonder some.

D) Trivial? What the hell is trivial about seeing something and noting it for later?

E) You keep saying you're town. It's not exactly a scum-tell, but I'm pretty sure you get some eyes on you.


SIDETHOUGHT:

Where is Klopy-boy? He managed to survive the night just fine, or has his maybe scum buddies told him to shut the hell up?

[Numenorean7]

Sir T and Numer- what, exactly, do I have to answer for? Lurking?

Yes, lurking, especially the fact that your vote on Nano was pretty much the only thing you did in the thread. You'll have to admit, popping in to jump onto a growing bandwagon doesn't look good.

MightyFireball- Is there a reason you're not voting?

Two days later...

Of course it's a bad thing for me to be dead. Do you really want the Doc lynched?

only 39 minutes later...

I think this is a fake claim.

This is pretty close timing after a comparably long absence. Coincidence?


@Gatorguy:
Why do you see Lowell's behavior as so much more scummy than everyone else's? I certainly agree there is evidence against him, but why Lowell in particular?

Listen, if by some chance AmeliaLi isn't scum (which is now possible) or if Klopy turns up town (doubtful) I'll admit to being wrong

If Klopy turns up town? That sounds like you're already planning to get him lynched.

ryan essentially ignored Nano all day. He did ask him for content a couple of times, and put him at third place on his scumlist, but that's all until this:

I think Klopy being lynched is good for the town and if I'm wrong, I'll take the heat, I'm not afraid.

If we get to a point where Nanosauromo or you are the two popular choices I'll listen to arguments on why I should change my vote

At least his vote wasn't a complete flip-flop, but he pretty much stayed away from the Nano discussion until he dropped the hammer (I reserve judgment as to whether this was intentional or not).

On Day 2 (today), the only other person to mention ryan's mistake regarding the meaning of WIFOM was ST. He was responding to ryan's comment from earlier today.

Than I guess I was just educated. I've always played that WIFOM stood for "whine in front of me" and I thought there was a bunch of whining and woah is me chat in that post.

I know what WIFOM stands for, thank you very much. But the point is, that it was not WIFOM (and, both Num7 and Jester agreed with me on that point)

In fact, AmeliaLi

never

mentioned the WIFOM mistake, she just said, "I'm not whining". It was Jester who pointed out the error.

Unvote
Vote: ryan

For getting flustered about AmeliaLi's accusation of wagon-pushing, falsely accusing AmeliaLi of focusing on his WIFOM mistake, hammering the doctor after ignoring him all day, rolefishing, and general scumminess.
For the vote-count challenged among us, this is the 3rd vote on ryan, 6 to lynch.

Ryan is SCUM

I told you... He was just looking to lynch. Didn't you all see it? I noticed it first. How he pressured a bangwagon vote. Look at him put the hammer down on our doctor. He knew Nano was town. He knew he was at -1. He did it on purpose. He is one scummy player. Look at his posts.

This is the only thing klopy has said today... and he didn't even vote ryan! Is it just me, or does this sound like pushing a wagon without getting on yourself? Klopyrev, why didn't you vote?

[Sir Tornado]

Numenorean7, what are you getting at? A ryan-Klopy-AmeliaLi mafia?

[Numenorean7]

Numenorean7, what are you getting at? A ryan-Klopy-AmeliaLi mafia?

This is kinda out of the blue. Where does AmeliaLi come in? I don't have any reason to believe she's scum, and have never said anything to the effect. I'm a little reticent to accuse klopy at this point, because we've just had a mis-lynch on similar evidence, but that's no reason to ignore him. I think it's quite possible ryan is Mafia. Lowell is a close second.

Mod

Can we have a prod on Indy?