Open 20 - Pie E7 (Game over) - before 453

[Patrick]

Mod

can you prod IH with a poker please?

[Ripley]

I see Ripley as unreadable at this point, which is obviously concerning. One thing he said interested me - post 300, where he says "Patrick knows I think at least one of him and Simenon is scum". Could you explain what you meant here?

In post 300 I'm referring back to Post 268, the post I made directly following Jordan's claim, where I said this:

it's really hard to believe two scum completely passed by the chance to make a move on an innocent being attacked by two experienced players. Which means at least one of Patrick and Simenon would be scum.

The only person who responded to this was Patrick (Post 284) so I knew he was aware I was thinking this way.

From what I gather from your post, it seems as though you suspect this because they "basically fixated" on Jordan. You later seem to suggest the Jordan bandwagon would be "tempting" for scum to join, implying it was a better than the Paradoxombie wagon. Does this mean you are suspicious of them because they were "fixated" on Jordan? Further, you say as well that IH and myself were fixated on Paradox - does this mean one of IH/Aimee is scum, or does it mean we are less likely to be scum than Patrick and Simenon.

I thought I'd been through this pretty thoroughly already. It's the failure of anyone else to join the bandwagon or advance the case against Jordan that I was commenting on, rather than the fixation of those already on it. And I've explained in some detail (Post 340) why I don't think the failure of others to join the Paradoxombie wagon can be viewed in the same way. Also, in Post 342 I explained that I thought that one scum in each pair (IH/Aimee, Simenon/Patrick) was actually quite likely from my point of view.

Can I suggest you reread those posts? If you still don't think they answer your questions come back to me and I'll have a go at writing new answers.

I do have a couple more thoughts about this. It was suggested, after Jordan had been on 2 votes for a while, that the longer this situation remained unchanged, the scummier he looked. Jordan didn't understand this so Simenon elaborated:

The scum win by mislynching. That's the only way they can possibly win the game by mafia with a reasonable town. Hence, if you were town, my thoughts are that the scum would be much more enthusiastic then they seem now, because are the only players in this game that benefit from seeing a pro town player lynched.
If you are scum, which I believe, the other scum does not want to see you lynched, because that would equal a bad position tomorrow. Therefore, the scum aren't going to as enthusiastic around a townie lynch than a scum lynch.
These players aren't really jumping to wagon you, are they

This argument was a factor in my thinking when I said I thought Jordan the best deadline lynch. So when Jordan turned up town, all this had to be revised: my thoughts naturally went back to the lack of enthusiasm for getting him lynched referred to by Simenon above. And it seemed that the other obvious explanation was that the scum were already voting for him. Patrick and I have been, on and off, debating how valid this is. I still think at least one scum was voting him already.

Another argument that only occurred to me recently is that Jordan didn't recover well from the initial mistake. He refers constantly to how badly he's playing. I think there was ample material there for scum to build on the original case made by Simenon/Patrick, had they chosen to. Which makes it even less likely that both scum would have passed up the opportunity.

If IH is town we have a real problem because he's making it easy for the scum to get him lynched. His last post with any content was on June 20th. Since then, nothing but absences and excuses, even around the deadline (a deadline he must have known about since he posted an excuse post the day before).

[CrashTextDummie]

Mod

can you prod IH with a poker please?

Done.

[IH]

Xombie still comes off as rather town to me since the start of the game, and has still given me the town vibes, except for his fos. Maybe I just have a natural opposition to such a weak gesture, but fossing jordan here just seems off to me.

....Just wondering why you got a town vibe from Para? Because I just didn't get it from him the entire day...

Hmm. Been lazy in this game past few days. I sense it will become much harder to reread it soon =P

By the way IH, the word you want is "noncommital" rather than "uncommital".

The worst of it is I can't really think of anything to say right now. I've read the debate between IH and Paradoxombie and it doesn't leave me wanting to add anything. I think Paradoxombie focussed on Simenon too long, and apparently didn't even want to think about Simenon's motives, but I wouldn't go as far as to call it a big distraction necessarily to the rest of us. He didn't really add much to the Jordan debate I guess.

I'm uninspired by my own post. Maybe I'll be able to add something else tomorrow when it's not so late. I *think* I'm more suspicious of Jordan and Aimee than Paradoxombie.

I can sympathize with this post X_X

So, what do you think about Aimee now Patrick?

Looking back, I don't think Aimee responded to the questions in Ripley's post 184. I think there might be some worth in that.

Still kind of meh on the IH/Paradox debate, but I'll tentatively say Simenon is probably town for now, and hope he is as easy to read as he seems to be =P

Post 230 mod post

post 231, Aimee post, answers questions.

Coincedence much?

Though her next post, which was done with her own initiative and is stuff I mainly agree with, is slightly conflicting..... So..... a scum that is actively lurking, and then rereads on her own? Bleh... i just disproved my own point = |

This is what happens when the town doesn't kill people I tell them to kill.

<3

post 246, HE ADMITS IT!

Yeah guys looks like I didn't miss too much. Looks like everyone lurked... so I got my lurkl out of my system this week later <.<;

I think maybe Jordan should claim. If he's a protown powerole, the last thing we want is to have a claim at the last minute that leaves us wondering whether to switch or not.

This was interesting and out of the blue.... probably if I would have been posting I would have said something....

THought I saw a contradiction that wasn't there.
(post 255 and 246 I think)

Patrick, would you be up for lynching IH or Aimee if the votes could be got together in time? You said a while back you thought you were more suspicious of Aimee than of Paradoxombie.

Everybody else: can you please specify who you would be willing to lynch?

Curious..... just wondering why you seemed so certain that Para and Jordan were town? Eh, perhaps I'm stretching it but.... a moot lynch to keep the suspects alive? Just wondering why me and Aimee were your two other choices....

When you're in as many games as IH is in, you have to pick and choose when you leave for a week. I am in another game that IH is ignoring.

I am relatively sure that Simenon is protown at this point. Just from not hopping on the "OH EM GEE, LURK, LYNCH"

I also seemed to have missed Jordan's doc claim.....

Well obviously Jordan is off the cards for today. Lynching a claimed doctor would be stupid.

I think Paradoxombie would be the best alternative. I made a massive case against him on the last page, to which he basically had no defence to. He is my preferred choice.

Strange as well.

I'd like to get confirmations from everyone that they're not going to counterclaim before figuring out what I want to do next. I'm not convinced Paradoxombie is the obvious move, if Jordan is innocent. If this is the case, it's really hard to believe two scum completely passed by the chance to make a move on an innocent being attacked by two experienced players. Which means at least one of Patrick and Simenon would be scum.

I wonder if Simenon's rapid switch to vote Paradoxombie before Patrick, IH, Paradoxombie or I had even checked in, means he didn't need to wait for counterclaims because he already knew Jordan was innocent?

I have this feeling Paradoxombie is going to be speedlynched before discussion goes much further. Oh well. We'll see.

While we were pressed for time..... there were too many dangers here, and to many unknowns.

1.The main target for the lynch would have to be at minus 1.
2.There was precious little time for the lynch
3.I continue to wonder why Ripley was so keen on keeping paradoxombie alive, that was twice he tried to switch the vote....
4.you had around 26 hours to get a lynch in. A speed lynch was needed there......

I also find it strange that Ripley thought it more important to try and cast suspicion on Simenon, who was voting for the other alternative from the unclaimed doc, and did not instead look at Patrick who had pressed for a power role claim.....

Slight FoS:Ripley

It was six minutes before deadline when I voted. I didn't like the situation one bit. I'd pretty much ruled Paradoxombie out from being scum with anyone but you (Patrick).

So not only was he the most innocent-looking person, but also I would learn very little if he was town

. But with nobody else around at deadline (and I suspect in some cases this was quite deliberate) and only 1 post in the previous 4 hours, I felt I had no real choice.

You had another option...... nolynching. The tone in your earlier posts seemed as if you had already semi confirmed him.

So.... lynch for lynches sake? It didn't seem to be for information (bolded part)

Please explain.

I had no back up plan after jordan.

find that suspicious in itself.

May I ask why you find that suspicious?

Yesterday he focused from start to finish on a player who turned out to be the doc, to such an extent that when this player claimed the day before deadline, Simenon had "no backup plan" and simply transferred his vote to a player he had apparently thought innocent, citing the approaching deadline as his reason, and then disappearing. Oh, and his pointless refusal to reveal an early scum tell he believed (wrongly) to have found caused a massive distraction that created a situation where it was very easy for people to vote the (innocent) Paradoxombie. I start to wonder if it actually suited Simenon rather well to keep stringing Para along, fixated on the issue to the point where he was attracting serious negative attention for it.

I must ask.........

1.The person eventually turning out to be the doc should be irrelevant, unless the scum suddenly have knowledge of who is what power role?

2......Dissapearing for the deadline? I dissapeared for the deadline I believe.....

3.Didn't you kind of halfheartedly defend the unrevealed scumtell? Kind of wondering what you mean by making it easy to vote for Para.....

Simenon seems to be answering these just like I did...... = |

I'm here people. Today leaves us in an awkward situation.

I am suspicious of Simenon's third vote yesterday - I see that as quite opportunistic. His posts today also have a definite weird vibe.

This seems very automatic.

FoS:Aimee

I am unsure of the Patrick/Simenon argument......

Where do I recommend you look? I really don't know who the scum are; nobody claims to except you, apparently. I had already said this. Seriously, you're getting into this outraged state because I failed to recommend where you look?

......So you accuse him of not having a plan.....

but you don't know where to look for scum....

in other words you also have no suspicions?

Yes, that's right. I was able to. I just haven't said it because like I said I'd prefer him to respond to an accusation levelled at him.

So did he take it all, or have you more to identify, out of curiosity.

Oh look a lylo vote.....

. It was created and supported by two of the most experienced players in the game at that time.
2. The basis of it was "catching a player in a slip-up" which is in my opinion a more convincing excuse to join the bandwagon than the Paradoxombie wagon, which was based on his fixating on Simenon over a long period of time.
3. The Jordan bandwagon came first, so joining it would not have meant abandoning an existing one. For you or Simenon, especially, to have changed to the Paradoxombie wagon prior to the roleclaim would have been difficult because it would require a certain amount of backtracking and justification.
4. The sheer amount of time that passed since you and Simenon initially picked up on the Jordan "slip" and voted him, without a single other player looking to build on it or move the case forward. Yes, people did say in passing, that Jordan looked a bit suspicious, but seemed more interested in putting the actual work into building a case against someone else altogether, and I think it's surprising that such a promising beginning as that (two experienced protown players wrongly thinking that they'd caught a third protown player in a basic error) would have been consistently passed over for so long by both real scum.

1.Clearly.... you do know that LFR/Simenon is very experienced in Mafia? I am unsure as to how many games he has, but he has been playing for quite a while I believe (Wifom/MTGS)
2.This may have some validity, but it looks as if it is mostly based on opinions.
3.So do you believe he predictied a doc claim?
4.Well, I would credit this in part to the MASSIVE lurk fest on day 1. It was like you guys posted, then lurked as I replaced in and posted, and then when I left you posted while I lurked. Pretty much they were the only things in passing to discuss at the moment. Para and Jordan, and that was about it.

Patrick..... I didn't get a feel at all about the Simenon/IH pairing you were talking about.

You gave what looked to be pro's and Con's, and then kind of let it hang..... How likely do you ACTUALLY believe it is, instead of just stating these things?

Aimee does that thing again where its "OH EM GEE NO AMY!"

"Wait here I am"

Posts 344 and 345

And finally the lurking IH. I find it annoying that he lurks at convenient times, as well as the fact I didn't see him really comment about the four remaining players at this point - his whole idea yesterday seemed to be the feud against Paradox, with some anti-Jordan comments thrown in for good measure. I could see IH as scum at this point.

Lawl Oh Lawl.

CTD's prod caught me just before I was going to use my adventures on KoL. Alas they will have to wait til I get off work tomorrow.

Put I have a post and should become more active now that I am caught up, hooray!

Now I only have Nightless, Newbie 370, Boardgames, Pod Mafia, mafia 58....... urgh.


ANYWAYS, summaries summaries.

Aimee-I dislike how she seems to be watching and posting. Maybe it's just breaks in the posting, and she comes in and looks, but she just seems to wait til the kind of critical mass type thing, and then posts a summary.

Patrick-Very unsure. I don't find him scummy, yet I don't find him town. He hasn't brought up anything unreasonable, but just some of his points I find sitting the fence.... well more subversivly. Like he looks like he is taking a stance on something, but actually offers up to slightly differing opinions and leaves it open.

Simenon-Reading through the end of yesterday, he looked town. The beginning of today, and his slight over reaction set off slight alarm bells, but the similarity in thinking, and some of Ripley's points make me think he is protown. I doubt he's scum at this point.

Ripley-While Ripley does usually make some pretty good points.... this game they seem to be diluted. Perhaps it's just the lack of actual game content, but I REALLY don't like some of the factors he's been putting in his arguments, not to mention things he leaves out, such as

Accusing Simenon of accepting a power role, but ignoring how Patrick seemed to press the claim (as if urging someone to come out). In the context of yesterday, that is very important.

Tying to strengthen his arguments with things like adding in "He was attacking what we know is a doc!" and things such as that.

Probably..... if I had to make an order from scum at top and town at bottom it would go

Ripley
Aimee
Patrick
Simenon

[Patrick]

Thankyou for posting something IH. I'm rather pressed for time at this point, but one or two things addressed to me:

So, what do you think about Aimee now Patrick?

I feel uncomfortable. If I could substantiate that better right now I would. I don't get the impression she's truly curious.

I'm suprised that you found it so unusual that I suggested Jordan claim. I can't remember how far away deadline was but I know it wasn't that far off. Last minute claims can be a nightmare.

So did he take it all, or have you more to identify, out of curiosity.

I don't understand this. I am half asleep though, but I don't get what you're asking.

Patrick..... I didn't get a feel at all about the Simenon/IH pairing you were talking about.

Well duh.

Patrick-Very unsure. I don't find him scummy, yet I don't find him town. He hasn't brought up anything unreasonable, but just some of his points I find sitting the fence.... well more subversivly. Like he looks like he is taking a stance on something, but actually offers up to slightly differing opinions and leaves it open.

This is a fair enough assessment. I am fairly open on most players, and can't get a good feel on anyone being town for sure. I cited you as my top suspect and even after your last post I'm not sure anymore. More later if I'm not in excutiating pain (big toenail is being surgically removed in like 10 minutes).

[Patrick]

More later if I'm not in excutiating pain (big toenail is being surgically removed in like 10 minutes).

/survived
May not post much today because the throbbing makes it hard to concentrate.

[IH]

I don't understand this. I am half asleep though, but I don't get what you're asking.

Sorry that was kind of incoherent. I meant, did you have anything else to say about Simenon's post (that you thought was crap) or did Ripley have it all?

Also, you left out the second part of my comment.

Patrick..... I didn't get a feel at all about the Simenon/IH pairing you were talking about.

You gave what looked to be pro's and Con's, and then kind of let it hang..... How likely do you ACTUALLY believe it is, instead of just stating these things?

Also ripped my toenail off at work like three weeks ago.

X_X not surgically. Hurts much, hope your toe doesn't hurt to much/you have painkillers.

[Ripley]

When I say "a player who turned out to be the doc", I don't intend to imply there's any special significance in the fact that it was a power role. I'm really just saying "the doc, and therefore town", but treating the last three words as redundant.

I think maybe Jordan should claim. If he's a protown powerole, the last thing we want is to have a claim at the last minute that leaves us wondering whether to switch or not.

This was interesting and out of the blue.... probably if I would have been posting I would have said something....

Why do you think it was suspicious of Patrick to ask Jordan for a claim? Isn't it usual to ask for a claim from someone who looks like being lynched? And actually, if Jordan had responded sooner (two days passed between Patrick's original request and Jordan's claim) we might be in a better position now. We

were

rushed at the end of the day, which is just what he said he was trying to avoid in asking for the claim at that stage (3 days before deadline).

Looking back, I don't think Aimee responded to the questions in Ripley's post 184. I think there might be some worth in that.

Still kind of meh on the IH/Paradox debate, but I'll tentatively say Simenon is probably town for now, and hope he is as easy to read as he seems to be =P

Post 230 mod post

post 231, Aimee post, answers questions.

Coincedence much?

I don't understand your point. Patrick reminds Aimee of some questions she overlooked, Aimee replies and answers them. What's the coincidence you refer to?

Patrick, would you be up for lynching IH or Aimee if the votes could be got together in time? You said a while back you thought you were more suspicious of Aimee than of Paradoxombie.

Everybody else: can you please specify who you would be willing to lynch?

Curious..... just wondering why you seemed so certain that Para and Jordan were town? Eh, perhaps I'm stretching it but.... a moot lynch to keep the suspects alive? Just wondering why me and Aimee were your two other choices....

I can't see anything in this that could be interpreted as meaning I'm certain that Para and Jordan were town. What do you mean? I'm trying to find out what alternative lynches are available in the case of Jordan claiming a power role, as in fact happened. Patrick had earlier specified Paradoxombie as someone he'd switch to. The only other person I didn't include in my question was Simenon, and I can't now precisely remember why that was; probably because Patrick had never expressed any suspicion of him and they'd voted the same way all day. I don't understand what you mean by "moot lynch to keep the suspects alive".

I continue to wonder why Ripley was so keen on keeping paradoxombie alive, that was twice he tried to switch the vote....

You had another option...... nolynching. The tone in your earlier posts seemed as if you had already semi confirmed him.

So.... lynch for lynches sake? It didn't seem to be for information (bolded part)

Prior to Jordan's claim I was, as already explained, trying to find out which lynches would be possible, not "trying to switch the vote". Following the claim I liked the Para lynch less and less the more I thought about it, I said so and I said why. He was indeed protown, so it turned out my reservations were valid.

I believe that in this setup a no lynch is the worst outcome on Day 1, and there were no other lynches available to me. The fact that I didn't much like the lynch doesn't change the fact that, in the lack of a claim from Paradoxombie, it was the right thing to do.

I had no back up plan after jordan.

find that suspicious in itself.

May I ask why you find that suspicious?

Already answered. (Post 325).

Where do I recommend you look? I really don't know who the scum are; nobody claims to except you, apparently. I had already said this. Seriously, you're getting into this outraged state because I failed to recommend where you look?

......So you accuse him of not having a plan.....

but you don't know where to look for scum....

in other words you also have no suspicions?

This is a ludicrous misinterpretation of what I said. Let's trace this back to its origins. Simenon first decides I'm scum, then looks for evidence. He finds so little that I suggest that might be an indication that he's looking in the wrong place. He, and now you, keep repeating "so where should I look then!" as if the fact that I don't feel able to name the scum with confidence - and note, nor does anybody else feel able to do this - somehow invalidates my response. I'm suspicious of everyone, and looking everywhere. And it increases my suspicion level of you no end, IH, when you pick up and on parrot responses of this quality by Simenon, and repeat questions from him that I've already answered, while glibly dismissing all his behavior, including trying to use an obvious joke post against me and placing a quick vote in lylo, as a"slight over reaction".

Incidentally, it is impossible for you to have read post 342 and still claim that I "have no suspicions". There's actually quite a bit about you in that post, all of which you have chosen to ignore. I'd like to hear your reply.

1.Clearly.... you do know that LFR/Simenon is very experienced in Mafia? I am unsure as to how many games he has, but he has been playing for quite a while I believe (Wifom/MTGS)

No idea what you mean by LFR or what the point is you're trying to make. My point was that Patrick and Simenon were two of the most experienced players in the game at that point; you seem to be arguing with me with evidence that supports what I was saying.

3.So do you believe he predictied a doc claim?

Again, no idea what you're trying to say here. My argument you're replying to is that it would have been more difficult for Patrick and Simenon, if scum, to switch to the Para wagon because of their existing wagon, than for scum to join their Jordan wagon. Nothing to do with predicting a doc claim at all.

It was like you guys posted, then lurked as I replaced in and posted, and then when I left you posted while I lurked.

When you said on Jun 23rd you'd be gone for a week, we pretty much stopped posting for that week.

I also find it strange that Ripley thought it more important to try and cast suspicion on Simenon, who was voting for the other alternative from the unclaimed doc, and did not instead look at Patrick who had pressed for a power role claim.....

Your wording here is extraordinarily skewed. I didnt "think it important to try and cast suspicion on Simenon". I simply

was suspicious of Simenon

. I thought it was strange that he immediately unvoted his prime suspect without waiting for counterclaims, especially when the claim was doc (much favored as a fake claim by scum). I still think so.

Incidentally, I think it's perfectly reasonable to reconsider my thoughts about Simenon's play regarding his supposed scum tell, in the light of his subsequent actions and the knowledge that both Jordan and Para were protown.

I have already commented on the Patrick bit, and again your wording "Patrick who had pressed for a power role claim" is just weird, twisting a routine roleclaim suggestion into something sinister. Have you been to spin doctor summer school? Oh, and here it is again:

Patrick seemed to press the claim (as if urging someone to come out).

Am I missing something? Patrick repeats that

Jordan

, who's pretty obviously going to be deadline lynched otherwise, should claim. What do you mean by "urging someone to come out"? Are you implying he was trying to do anything other than have Jordan, specifically, to claim a power role if he had one? If so, exactly what are you suggesting he was doing? If not, exactly what are you suggesting he was doing wrong?

All my toes seem OK. Maybe I haven't been kicking hard enough.

[IH]

Why do you think it was suspicious of Patrick to ask Jordan for a claim? Isn't it usual to ask for a claim from someone who looks like being lynched? And actually, if Jordan had responded sooner (two days passed between Patrick's original request and Jordan's claim) we might be in a better position now. We were rushed at the end of the day, which is just what he said he was trying to avoid in asking for the claim at that stage (3 days before deadline).

True, but just looking through and if I had ben posting i would have thought it was strange. Just how it was phrased looked kind of like a scumbuddy kind of coaching someone that they needed to claim.

Obviously this was not the case, but it is still relevant in a later point.

I don't understand your point. Patrick reminds Aimee of some questions she overlooked, Aimee replies and answers them. What's the coincidence you refer to?

That Aimee was Lurking
Someone mentioned her name
Aimee posted

can't see anything in this that could be interpreted as meaning I'm certain that Para and Jordan were town. What do you mean? I'm trying to find out what alternative lynches are available in the case of Jordan claiming a power role, as in fact happened. Patrick had earlier specified Paradoxombie as someone he'd switch to. The only other person I didn't include in my question was Simenon, and I can't now precisely remember why that was; probably because Patrick had never expressed any suspicion of him and they'd voted the same way all day. I don't understand what you mean by "moot lynch to keep the suspects alive".

Well if you had given that as your reasons at the time I'd be more inclined to believe you, but just that you were casting around for another lynch. It was obviously going to be a rushed lynch, but what did you mean to gain from another lynch. THose seemed to be the towns two largest suspects, so if you lynched someone else, then that would leave them there for tomorrow.

Prior to Jordan's claim I was, as already explained, trying to find out which lynches would be possible, not "trying to switch the vote". Following the claim I liked the Para lynch less and less the more I thought about it, I said so and I said why. He was indeed protown, so it turned out my reservations were valid.

I believe that in this setup a no lynch is the worst outcome on Day 1, and there were no other lynches available to me. The fact that I didn't much like the lynch doesn't change the fact that, in the lack of a claim from Paradoxombie, it was the right thing to do.

The tone of your posts just didn't feel like exploring possibilities, it felt more like you were trying to shift the vote the other way, which is why I mentioned it repeatedly.

I am willing to believe the second part.

This is a ludicrous misinterpretation of what I said. Let's trace this back to its origins. Simenon first decides I'm scum, then looks for evidence. He finds so little that I suggest that might be an indication that he's looking in the wrong place. He, and now you, keep repeating "so where should I look then!" as if the fact that I don't feel able to name the scum with confidence - and note, nor does anybody else feel able to do this - somehow invalidates my response. I'm suspicious of everyone, and looking everywhere. And it increases my suspicion level of you no end, IH, when you pick up and on parrot responses of this quality by Simenon, and repeat questions from him that I've already answered, while glibly dismissing all his behavior, including trying to use an obvious joke post against me and placing a quick vote in lylo, as a"slight over reaction".

You misunderstand. I just don't see your remark as a town reaction, as I see that question from plenty of people, "Where should i look!?" But the general town reaction, imo, is that they will first explain there suspicions, and say, "There are plenty of places to look."

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding it, but I am unsure

No idea what you mean by LFR or what the point is you're trying to make. My point was that Patrick and Simenon were two of the most experienced players in the game at that point; you seem to be arguing with me with evidence that supports what I was saying.

Oh i thought you meant yourself

Again, no idea what you're trying to say here. My argument you're replying to is that it would have been more difficult for Patrick and Simenon, if scum, to switch to the Para wagon because of their existing wagon, than for scum to join their Jordan wagon. Nothing to do with predicting a doc claim at all.

I know I had a point in there about the roleclaim.... but I can't remember it. I'll come back to this another time

When you said on Jun 23rd you'd be gone for a week, we pretty much stopped posting for that week.

I meant after that week.

Your wording here is extraordinarily skewed. I didnt "think it important to try and cast suspicion on Simenon". I simply was suspicious of Simenon. I thought it was strange that he immediately unvoted his prime suspect without waiting for counterclaims, especially when the claim was doc (much favored as a fake claim by scum). I still think so.

Incidentally, I think it's perfectly reasonable to reconsider my thoughts about Simenon's play regarding his supposed scum tell, in the light of his subsequent actions and the knowledge that both Jordan and Para were protown.

I have already commented on the Patrick bit, and again your wording "Patrick who had pressed for a power role claim" is just weird, twisting a routine roleclaim suggestion into something sinister. Have you been to spin doctor summer school? Oh, and here it is again:

in case you haven't noticed, when I believe something is supicious, I'm going to speak of it like the person had alterior motives. I'm not going to water it down into something else that is possible, I'm going to go with what I think what happened if that person was scum.

I usually am kind of eratic from game to game, but if you'd look at some of my other games, that would become kind of obvious that I do do this. I think anyways.

Sidenote-You should kick things harder. Losing toenails makes you hardcore.

[Simenon]

everywhere. And it increases my suspicion level of you no end, IH, when you pick up and on parrot responses of this quality by Simenon, and repeat questions from him that I've already answered, while glibly dismissing all his behavior, including trying to use an obvious joke post against me and placing a quick vote in lylo, as a"slight over reaction".

Haven't read the rest of it yet, and I'll get to it later, but it's metagame time.

Every single game I've played as scum on this site, the three I can count off the top of my head (Triad, Open 18, Happy Normal) I bussed my buddies as scum. It's simply a horrible, horrible risk to take by answering for your scumbuddy and attempting to shift attention off him. It may stop the wagon in the short term, but as a long term strategy, it's such a noticable link, there's no reason to do so.

Now, it would be great that this game was the game where I broke my own metagame in two, but let's be reasonable.

[Aimee]

From what I gather from your post, it seems as though you suspect this because they "basically fixated" on Jordan. You later seem to suggest the Jordan bandwagon would be "tempting" for scum to join, implying it was a better than the Paradoxombie wagon. Does this mean you are suspicious of them because they were "fixated" on Jordan? Further, you say as well that IH and myself were fixated on Paradox - does this mean one of IH/Aimee is scum, or does it mean we are less likely to be scum than Patrick and Simenon.

I thought I'd been through this pretty thoroughly already. It's the failure of anyone else to join the bandwagon or advance the case against Jordan that I was commenting on, rather than the fixation of those already on it. And I've explained in some detail (Post 340) why I don't think the failure of others to join the Paradoxombie wagon can be viewed in the same way. Also, in Post 342 I explained that I thought that one scum in each pair (IH/Aimee, Simenon/Patrick) was actually quite likely from my point of view.

Can I suggest you reread those posts? If you still don't think they answer your questions come back to me and I'll have a go at writing new answers.

Yeah, I had another re-read of them, and it makes more sense to me now.

Another argument that only occurred to me recently is that Jordan didn't recover well from the initial mistake. He refers constantly to how badly he's playing. I think there was ample material there for scum to build on the original case made by Simenon/Patrick, had they chosen to. Which makes it even less likely that both scum would have passed up the opportunity.

I would agree that Jordan was an easy target on day 1.

So, what do you think about Aimee now Patrick?

Looking back, I don't think Aimee responded to the questions in Ripley's post 184. I think there might be some worth in that.

Still kind of meh on the IH/Paradox debate, but I'll tentatively say Simenon is probably town for now, and hope he is as easy to read as he seems to be =P

Post 230 mod post

post 231, Aimee post, answers questions.

Coincedence much?

I think Ripley already addressed this, but yes, Patrick's post did remind me to answer those questions.

I also don't see how it is anti-town for Patrick to ask Jordan to claim.

Well obviously Jordan is off the cards for today. Lynching a claimed doctor would be stupid.

I think Paradoxombie would be the best alternative. I made a massive case against him on the last page, to which he basically had no defence to. He is my preferred choice.

Strange as well.

Why?

I also find it strange that Ripley thought it more important to try and cast suspicion on Simenon, who was voting for the other alternative from the unclaimed doc, and did not instead look at Patrick who had pressed for a power role claim.....

I don't understand this. Are you saying it would have been better not to press for a claim? If so, why?

I had no back up plan after jordan.

find that suspicious in itself.

May I ask why you find that suspicious?

He has already explained this...

Aimee-I dislike how she seems to be watching and posting. Maybe it's just breaks in the posting, and she comes in and looks, but she just seems to wait til the kind of critical mass type thing, and then posts a summary.

This is playstyle, in a way. Check any of my other games. I am like that in them as well.

I'm pretty concerned that IH considers Simenon the most town at this point, mainly because I completely disagree, and I'm not understanding why he seems so anti-Ripley and so pro-Simenon. I'm also disliking the way he seems so focused on Patrick asking Jordan to claim, seeing as I don't see that as anti-town at all.

My toes are all fine too...

[IH]

Focused? There wasn't that many things that happened yesterday, and I consider that something major that just went unadressed.

Second of all, I have just found Simenon to be on the same wavelength of me today, and yesterday I found his play pretty pro town. The main factor I am basing that Simenon is town is his play from Yesterday.

Not only that, but from a process of elimination, if I believe Simenon is town, then two of you three have to be scum, so I'm obviously going to try and zero in on you guys, and I have just found more to zero on on Ripley, than others (maybe because he seems to post alot more, but I'm unsure)

[CrashTextDummie]

Vote Count

:

Not voting

(5):

Ripley, Aimee, IH, Patrick, Simenon

5 alive, 3 to lynch.

MOD-NOTE:
I am leaving for a two week vacation tomorrow. Guardian will take care of this game in my absence. Treat him with respect and heed his word, for it is the law.

Also, Simenon has let me know that he will depart for a vacation as well on Sunday. He will be replaced by

Skruffs

. Yay for Skruffs!

[Patrick]

Welcome to the game Skruffs. It won't be the same again >>>

[IH]

Woo! Sweet it's Skruffs!

At least this time he's replaced the player I think is the most protown ^_^

Also, what's up with Guardian being Backup mod all the time <.<; This is like the third game he's done this for.

[Guardian]

Yo. I'm gonna be backup modding for a few weeks. For the record, I have a PM of the roles but have not looked at it. Trying to interpret any player-me interactions will be useless, as I will not be looking at that PM unless a lynch occurs or I have to find a replacement. The theme is intended to be humorous, and some of my threats will be jokes. Some won't be.

---

Patrick was right that this game won't be the same again.

The easy days are over, fools.

IH, yes son, I be moding, you better deal with it and right quick. Y'all need to step in line.

The theme of this game is changing from "generic mafia" to "thug life". Y'all have had it way the hell too easy with CTD as yo mod, he has let you chickens off like anything, the activity in this game is whack.

Y'all gonna need to step this activity or I'm gonna start prodding y'all with knives. CTD has been way to soft on you guys, that pansy stuff is over. Step up your game fools!

And by the way, y'all are not getting a vote count until you deserve one. And based on your recent activity, it don't seem like that's a happenin' soon.

[IH]

I Pity da fool who try and makes me post mo!

mod edit: I can edit your posts now homie. Be afraid. Be very afraid. mwahahaha. ALL of you: post some game related content. Or face my wrath...

[Skruffs]

Oh, so I *have* replaced.
Hi everyone.
What do I need to know?
Simenon said I Was on the chopping block.

[Patrick]

Need to get myself back into this one. Just to reply to a couple of things IH asked me before.

Sorry that was kind of incoherent. I meant, did you have anything else to say about Simenon's post (that you thought was crap) or did Ripley have it all?

I thought he did alright on it. I remember reading this large lettered paragraph when Simenon wrote it and thinking it was false:

WHY DIDN'T YOU MENTION IT AS DISTRACTING WHEN IT ACTUALLY OCCURED, YOU LITTLE SCUMMY SCUM?

As I was pretty sure I could remember Ripley mentioning how that issue was fairly unimportant compared to the Jordan issue.

You gave what looked to be pro's and Con's, and then kind of let it hang..... How likely do you ACTUALLY believe it is, instead of just stating these things?

Yeah I did suspect it. Sorry it can't have been too clear, as someone else had to ask as well.

[Ripley]

I was a bit surprised not to get more from Patrick last week following Post 355 (The Notification of the Throbbing Toenail). Partly because the wording "May not post much today" rather implied that we might expect something the next day or the day after, when the agony had subsided. And partly because one of the topics coming repeatedly under discussion following IH's post 353 was Patrick's asking for a role claim Day 1. But we don't hear anything more from Patrick till he welcomes Skruffs.

While Patrick always manages to come across to me as more protown than not, I'm not getting quite the same level of confidence in him as I have in other games. We usually think very much alike, so the very fact of his early suspicion of Jordan, which I didn't really share, has given this game a different feel. Plus the not-posting I just referred to, which can be a sign of being content to sit back and let the townies tear each other to pieces.

I wouldn't say I'm particularly suspicious of Patrick, it's more that I'm not as confident in him as usual. And I have to take notice of that. He has however said lots of things I do agree with. For example, his recent remarks about Aimee (lack of curiosity, needing to be pressed to contribute) seem true to me.

And now back to IH, and the whole business of Patrick asking Jordan to claim. Aimee says she dislikes the way IH is focusing on this, because she doesn't see it as anti-town at all, and IH replies:

Focused? There wasn't that many things that happened yesterday, and I consider that something major that just went unadressed.

How major can it have been, if nobody even thought it worthy of comment? Your argument seems to be that the wording Patrick used was strange and sounded like a scumbuddy coaching, and that even when this turns out not to have been true, you're suspicious of me for not commenting on it at the time. But

nobody

found it strange except you, either at the time or later when you've pointed it out. And you single me out repeatedly for this "ignoring Patrick pressing for a claim", as if this is a crime for me, but just fine for everyone else. The only difference I can see is that you believe that because I said I found Simenon's behavior following the claim a bit suspicious, I was somehow also obligated to find Patrick suspicious as well. Which doesn't really make sense. It's as if you've declared you're For Simenon, which means you have to be Against Ripley. You really seemed to be doing much the same as Simenon did, starting off from the assumption "Ripley is scum" and then scouring my posts for evidence to support it.

However, I have to say here that this game has in some ways reminded me of a newbie game I played with Simenon into which IH also replaced. The roles have been reversed to an extent, in as much as in the previous game it was IH who, immediately following his arrival, was making what I thought of as - let's say excitable, and not very coherent posts, with which I disagreed thoroughly. And Simenon was supporting him. Both turned out to be town. (I was town too.) So I do have to take into account that there's some history of these two genuinely agreeing with each other even when I disagree with every word of it.

Even taking that into account, I still find IH's almost complete assumption of Simenon's innocence bizarre. I think Simenon's case against me was incredibly weak, and I tend to be more suspicious of someone who supports a weak case than of the person who made it in the first place. So IH is at least as suspicious to me as Simenon/Skruffs, and maybe more so.

Oh, and there's this, which I addressed to IH in post 357, but which he ignored:

Incidentally, it is impossible for you to have read post 342 and still claim that I "have no suspicions". There's actually quite a bit about you in that post, all of which you have chosen to ignore. I'd like to hear your reply.

I'd still like you to respond to this, IH.

[Patrick]

Laziness rather than agony Ripley. I've been pretty lazy in all my games this week. It's not even as though I haven't had the time. I did also note that I didn't understand what IH was getting at with the whole asking for a claim thing. It's an odd fixation that doesn't really make sense to me. I'd like IH to address the "major point" about my asking for a claim yesterday, because I don't think he's actually done it solidly yet.

I wouldn't say I'm particularly suspicious of Patrick, it's more that I'm not as confident in him as usual.

(Shrug) there's only three finished games where you would have had to judge my alignment if I remember correctly. In c9 I didn't really do anything at all, in pie c9 I didn't do much that wasn't fairly simple. If there could be such a thing as "how I play as town", this is closer to it than either of those games.

*General point that isn't necessarily addressing any single person: I didn't fixate solely on Jordan day 1. I had my vote on him, randomly at first, then not randomly, and it stayed there a while. To say I fixated makes it sound like I refused to look into anyone else. I looked at every other player, I looked at the smallish cases made against Teffc, I had my uneasy feeling about Aimee, and I looked at the case against Paradoxombie, and found it to be uninspiring. I decided Jordan was the most likely to be scum, ergo my vote stayed. I was nothing like certain or even particularly confident.

[Guardian]

A car rolls up. A shady looking figure sticks his head and an AK-47 out the window and sprays bullets at you. It is me.

I'm Wayne Brady, fools!


Some of the bullets graze players who need to post content. They have been prodded.


This game needs to move. Faster. Ideally, I want it done and around 25-30 pages long by the time CTD gets back. I am pulling for the town, so this means two lynches.

Ripley and Patrick, it seems you two are at least trying. Skruffs, read the game.... Aimee and IH, help out. I am going on semi V/LA for a few days starting Wednesday (don't worry, I'll likely be able to log on to

check on you

terrorize you a few times), but before I go I want all players posting and this game to be rolling again. Get to it.

[Skruffs]

It's hard to read a game while dodging bullets.
Reading.

[Aimee]

I checked Day 1 posts, and IH made no reference to finding him so pro-town, something he has stated so vehemently today. If anything, you found him scummy - you FoSed him and called him "slightly suspicious" (although it was in the context of something much greater for Jordan).

Overall, I don't undertand why he is so pro-Simenon/Skruffs today.

[Skruffs]

I'm reading.
As it stands - having played with Ripley and Patrick in Pie2, I am really not liking Patrick's pushing of Jordan's asking simenon whether or not he's a cop. IT started off logical enough but it kind of degenerates more into just an outright push and less a non-biased view on jordan's motivations. Riply (at the end of page 3) is kind of playing the foil - but i don't think ripley has voted him at this point.

More to come later.