Twin Trap (Game Over) [TM2015]

[Mina]

My point is you thought I was town back when Patrick had me as a second-tier suspect, though. (And also, gut =/= Patrick, and you'd called it gut.)

[BBmolla]

I don't know what you want me to tell you, I've just been seeing you as town and haven't had reason to doubt it.

[Patrick]

Hey Patrick, 732 came at a time when I was reassessing the Alchemist wagon and didn't like BBmolla's reasons for being on it at all, and didn't like the fact that you hadn't talked about your read on Alchemist in depth for some time. Literally that entire page is me beginning to doubt the Al wagon

Yeah I know, I've read this before. And I think the timing is whack because that is right about when I decided bbmolla looked really town. But that just brings us back to the debate that's been going on for a few pages, so meh.

I have found various aspects of BB's play town, which is why I have him at null. But people (Patrick, ETL) who are just saying blah blah emotion blah fakehammer need to look a little bit closer, for Christ's sake. Your lack of nuance in your read on him really concerns me, which is precisely not what I want, because it's destroying my previously held townreads on you and, I think, making me think Johnny is townier than he actually is.

I could probably look at him more closely I guess. I tend to do that when someone makes me a little bit paranoid about them, which he hasn't. The fact that my team are happy with this helps. But I also think you're being overely dismissive about my read on him. Like, I think the emotion that you file under blah blah blah is a real tell, I think the fakehammer is a much weaker one but still leans town, and I disagree that he hasn't scumhunted. I don't know what you found so offensive about his read on alchemist, because I felt alot of the same too. If you think the emotion should be dismissed then can you at least explain why you don't think it means anything? Johnny didn't convince me here.

Random moment of paranoia time: why did your town read on me start getting stronger right when I stopped posting? Shouldn't this be when you'd be getting LESS sure of the {JF-BPC-ETL} PoE pool rather than more so?

That read on you was based on rereading day 2 a few times, not so much what was happening at the time, which wasn't much. I'd have preferred you to be posting about whatever you'd re evaluated but saw no reason to doubt that you were just busy.

EBWOP: I seriously, unironically think BPC randomly putting ETL as his strongest town read (while scummy as hell) is not something he'd do to his actual buddy (this may sound like ridiculous logic, but this tell has worked for me a lot in the past).

Its a kinda weird read if they're scum together. I've used similar tells myself, depending on the context. But I've also hit games where I've seen so many of these little things that I've ended up practically ruling out every possible scumgroup. At some point in most games, most scumteams will do something you wouldn't quite expect. Now that you've pointed this out, I really wish he'd answered before leaving.

in any case town reads are worthless especially coming from you who has waffled on people all game.

What was even the point of this?

Fucking [] tags in urls ruining ISO links. Start reading from here for the Quilford vs. Molla battle. Also an example of me-scum (I think I looked pretty town since I could genuinely hunt for the other team, except I went for a lot of low-hanging fruit and never gave a big-picture view of the game) and Molla-town.

CES would like me to thankyou for providing a link that amused him. It is true that Quilfords play in that game looks very crude, lol.

ETL, what happened to you thinking I'm a dirty scumbag?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I think BPC should be today's lynch

This is terrible. I'd rather go today. I'm clearly a big question mark for people.

p-edit posts

Patrick all my reads got stale. The night was hella long and then I ran into IRL shit. I'm working on getting things organized again. Right now I want to lynch Johnny. Failing that, lynch me.

[Patrick]

I donno Mina. I'm bad at reading you, I'm gonna trust Patrick's word over my own.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What was even the point of this?

If you were reading for comprehension, you wouldn't be asking this question.

[Quilford]

Quil name the scumteam, go!

@Patrick: I don't think the emotion should be dismissed—it's a big part of my read on him—but I think his poor scumhunting should heavily weigh against it, and I don't understand how it doesn't for you. His read on Alchemist was very poorly reasoned, as I've gone into before.

CES, ya face amuses me

[Patrick]

If you were reading for comprehension, you wouldn't be asking this question.

No, I actually have no clue what the point of it was, considering you apparently think Mina is genuine, and what you said here isn't even slightly true. Perhaps what you're saying makes clear sense in your own head, but I find most of your posts extremely difficult to follow. I'll ask you again: what was the point of that post?

@Patrick: I don't think the emotion should be dismissed—it's a big part of my read on him—but I think his poor scumhunting should heavily weigh against it, and I don't understand how it doesn't for you. His read on Alchemist was very poorly reasoned, as I've gone into before.

I just don't think his scumhunting is as poor as you're saying? Is it even much different to that game Mina linked to? I only really looked at his responses to you but I don't see a stark difference.

Do you take issue with Mina's townread of him?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

No, I actually have no clue what the point of it was, considering you apparently think Mina is genuine, and what you said here isn't even slightly true. Perhaps what you're saying makes clear sense in your own head, but I find most of your posts extremely difficult to follow. I'll ask you again: what was the point of that post?

She threw a town read at me, and then commented on how I hadn't commented on it. I responded by saying the town read was worthless to me.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I'm not sure exactly what you're trying to figure out about it tbh, in terms of "purpose". Assign whatever purpose you think is appropriate. I didn't have one in mind when I wrote it.

[Patrick]

I just don't think I get you at all. Almost every time I come in here I change my mind on what I think of you. Now that she's read almost the entire game, Fenchurch seems pretty sure you're scum, and though I'm less sure, I'm hard pressed to make a good argument for why, because I dislike alot of what you've posted.

I think BPC should be today's lynch

This is terrible. I'd rather go today. I'm clearly a big question mark for people

Like, what on earth is this. Are you confident the guy is town, or just being a drama queen?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I just don't think I get you at all. Almost every time I come in here I change my mind on what I think of you. Now that she's read almost the entire game, Fenchurch seems pretty sure you're scum, and though I'm less sure, I'm hard pressed to make a good argument for why, because I dislike alot of what you've posted.

I think BPC should be today's lynch

This is terrible. I'd rather go today. I'm clearly a big question mark for people

Like, what on earth is this. Are you confident the guy is town, or just being a drama queen?

No I just don't feel like fighting in LYLO when my emotions are bound to get extremely wound up. Right now, we can spare a townie. If everyone is dead set on using faulty PoE to arrive at "ETL is scum" then it's much fucking better to let it be me, rather than waiting for LYLO when my anxiety over the situation is likely to result in a loss.

[Patrick]

OK. I don't think it's a great attitude if you're town but I've certainly done the same when pissed off with games. What is your read on BPC now?

[EspeciallyTheLies]

It's not about attitude, and I'm not pissed off. Yet. It's a strategic maneuver and it makes sense. Can you honestly tell yourself that getting my flip wouldn't be helpful for determining likely alignment of other people in the game? And I mean specifically mine.

[Mina]

Turns out I don't have work this evening ^_^! Just commenting that I ISO'd Quilford on my phone in both the Equinox game and here. He, like, posts cases there and stuff. He's a bit robotic. Better than in Marketplace because they're at least standard "scumhunting" posts.

But then I ISO'd him here out of paranoia. Okay, he's town.

Never ever ever ever ever ever ever ever lynch him. Suspecting him = you are bad at Mafia (even if you're Regfan!)

Molla, do your teammates suspect him for a reason beyond his behaviour surrounding the hammer?

(My read on ETL is very, very similar to Patrick's. And ETL, I'd prefer a scum flip to a "there are fewer suspects" flip.)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

He could be scum. The replace out is eh. Kinda of mitigates it a bit tbh. I don't know how I feel about Johnny/BPC team. I don't know that it makes a ton of sense. I'd like to get his flip first. I think that will say a lot about the BPC slot.

I don't understand Mina's "three solid town reads" and I think if she is town, that is extremely foolish. Especially if all of that ends up with me being one of her PoE options, because it's straight up wrong. I kind of think it should be obvious that I'm town,

because of

my play and not despite it.

I think I don't know on you or BB. And I like trusting my team on quil because his shit

looks

town on the surface but my team is screaming scum. Anti/TTH/Sthar are a force to be reckoned with and I trust them implicitly.

p-edit: yeah well if BPC or whoever ends up being town, I'm not fucking dealing with bullshit tomorrow I'm just not. So figure me out before this day ends or lynch me. There is no middle ground in this matter.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

I also think that Brian replacing into it is REALLY meh.

[Patrick]

What difference does it make that Brian replaced in specifically?

Also, do you think your scum play is very different to this then?

[Patrick]

Suspecting him = you are bad at Mafia (even if you're Regfan!)

I'll quote this at you next time =)

[EspeciallyTheLies]

Day 1

*** Alchemist21 ( 4 ) ***

Patrick

Quilford

BBMolla

Serrapaladin

[/color]

(L - 1 )

BBMolla ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 5 )

BipolarChemist ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 5 )

EspeciallyTheLies ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 5 )

Mina ( 1 )

BipolarChemist

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Ms Marangal ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 5 )

Patrick ( 1 )

Ms Marangal

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Quilford ( 1 )

Alchemist21

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Serrapaladin ( 0 )

[/color]

(L - 5 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 2 )

Mina EspeciallyTheLies

Total Votes ( 9 )

Needed to Lynch [ 5 ]

Deadline: April 14th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-04-14 20:00:00)

Corrected

why is the formatting of this damn vc so fucking complex.. jesus man... all those tabs and shit...
Ok.

Quil actually does look terrible here. Especially given the whole thing about when/how long he was on the wagon.

So does BPC. If I consider one on/one off, Johnny/BPC does make sense. However, the fact that the wagon DID stall makes me think that BOTH were on it, in which case quil/Johnny might make sense. Or Patrick/Johnny, on VCA alone.

Day 1

*** Alchemist21 ( 5 ) ***

Patrick

BBMolla

Serrapaladin

Mina

Quilford

[/color]

(L - 0 )

Mina ( 1 )

BipolarChemist

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Patrick ( 1 )

Ms Marangal

[/color]

(L - 4 )

Not Voting ( 2 )

EspeciallyTheLies Alchemist21

Total Votes ( 9 )

Needed to Lynch [ 5 ]

Alchemist21 the Vanilla Townie was lynched

Hm. Ok so then Quil unvoted because he thought I would hammer... not sure if that was for show or what. So Mina voted to put him back at L-1, and quil then hammered. This makes me think quil/mina tbh. Kind of like.. that was kind of weird. I mean, I get the unvote, in that situation. It could come from either, but Mina voting to place him back at L-1 is weird. *note to self to go look at that bit again*

BPC is still eh. Meh. Fucking eh.

Day 2

BipolarChemist ( 2 )

JohnnyFarrar

Quilford

[/color]

(L - 2 )

JohnnyFarrar ( 2 )

EspeciallyTheLies

BBMolla

[/color]

(L - 2 )

No Lynch ( 0 )

Not Voting ( 3 )

Patrick BipolarChemist Mina

Total Votes ( 7 )

Needed to Lynch [ 4 ]

Deadline: April 26th at 20:00 EDT
(expired on 2015-04-26 20:00:00)

BPC has been prodded

And this is now. Kind of an interesting spread. I like that BB is on the Johnny wagon, though I'm disappointed that it seemed more of a "idk wtf I'm doin so I will do this" kind of vote and not one of conviction. I think the Johnny/quil vote on BPC is telling if BPC is town, especially combined with their votes on the alch wagon.

The biggest thing for me is the fact that it did stall and there was no counter wagon. Really makes me think both scum were on it.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

What difference does it make that Brian replaced in specifically?

Also, do you think your scum play is very different to this then?

oh just that the only impression i have of him is as a lurker.

and i dunno. but i know that i put a lot of effort into being scum and that's pretty obvious across all my games. i mean, what i do know of my scum play is that i get very into it. being mafia is fun. i like it. i like seeing how i can manipulate people. i have a great time with it and i get involved and up in arms about shit. it's a lot harder to maintain momentum and motivation as town because i get lost and confused and frustrated and i tend to withdraw from those kinds of situations.

[EspeciallyTheLies]

like, i just dont feel the fire for lynching BPC.

[Mina]

Why does a wagon on a townie stalling mean both scum are on it, though? Wouldn't scum not want to make waves if they're off the wagon, too? (Well, I guess scum could have pushed a random townie to look busy.)

[Mina]

Also, why does everyone in the game have teammates who suspect Quilford? Am I just not drinking the Kool-Aid? Does NO ONE find it odd that this is nothing like his scum play has ever been? Am I the one who's crazy?

(Patrick, that's your way of preparing for when you and Quilford endgame me, isn't it? )

[Patrick]

I don't think his play here looks like his play in Marketplace either. Though the fact that so many spectators seem to suspect him is something I mentioned in my skypechat earlier today as well. Its weird but I'm not sure what can be gleaned from it.