Open 30 - Fire and Ice (Game Over!) - before 470

[LoudmouthLee]

All right. First, so that Vendagoat stops saying the entire case on him is based on "feeling", allow me to articulate why his Day One play made him look like partners with XYZ.

Here's a chronology:
1) Crub random-votes XYZ (#11)
2) I random-vote XYZ (#18)
3) Mert "bandwagon" votes XYZ (#19)
4) Vendagoat says "wow, lots ot hate for XYZ" (#23)
5) XYZ (joke?) FoS's Vendagoat (#24)

That was the initial thing. It felt like Vendagoat was trying to derail the bandwagon in a subtle way (his post is a joke, check it out), and XYZ responded to that by FoSing him because goats are bad, which looks like a partner saying "don't be stupid".

So jokes are scumtells now?

Vendagoat then makes lots of "oh, he might be scum, might not be" non-commital comments (often accompanied by FoS's) regarding XYZ (e.g. #42, #62, #73, #165).

And then it comes down to deadline, and it looks like it's between XYZ and MBL. Venadagoat votes MBL. Now, I don't know about you guys, but when I FoS someone three times, and someone else zero times, I'd probably vote for the person I'd found suspicious, not the one with "the condescending attitude". But then again, I'm not Vendagoat and I'm not XYZ's scum-buddy.

You've been riding me from day one and since you got lucky on day one you are attempting to railroad me for day two. Fine.

---------------
So that points to partnership yesterday. In addition, Vendagoat has acted scumy indepedently of XYZ. He's been wishy-washy, extremely OMGUS-y, hasn't made actual attempts at scumhunting, prefering to follow the crowd or else OMGUS, doesn't respond to (what I happen to think are) valid responses to his posts (see, e.g. my post 221), distorts posts and arguments, accused me of claiming something when I was doing no such thing (and of course didn't respond when I pointed that out), and is now trying to play the newbie card despite having more than 3 months' experience at mafiascum.

vote: Vendagoat

Let it be known that I have played

2

whole games. One being lynched on day one and the other resulted in a town win.


And post 31 is were you accuse me of being XYZ's scum buddy. Wow, either you have some form of esp, or you were just setting up a kill for today.

Look I've started a case on you because you used the term "feeling" and now after seeing how you have justified it, you have given away you had some form of knowledge. You knew XyZ was scum and now you know I am scum.

How can you make such allegations unless you have knowledge of the scum pairings. Which means, your scum. Now the question lies, are you ice or fire?

Jokes are scumtells. They truly are. EmpTyger has the most famous one for Les Mis Mafia back in 2005. He, on april fools day, claimed that he was mafia. Meme and I spearheaded a lynch on him. His defense? "It was a JOKE!"

Emptyger was scum. Hence his "It's a JOKE!" title.

MBL's joke was hysterical, but I wrote down in my notebook that he's possible scum BECAUSE of it. I dont think he and xyz are on the same squad, but I think MBL is ice mafia.

I would rather find the last fire mafia first, though. and, I would be happy lynching MBL is we cant draw a correlation.

As of right now, I'm thinking a MBL / AE Ice mafia and a Goat / XYZ Fire Mafia. AE is the biggest "guess" of the bunch currently.

MBL made sure to say that the Ice Mafia was craftier in his joke mafia. MBL probably also likes to look at himself naked in the mirror breathing "I am a rock star."

Stroke it, MBL.

Vote: Goat

, who I think is the last Fire Mafia, surprisingly, for reasons AE has started.

Major FoS: MBL

for being, for all intents and purposes, #1 on my scum list. Possibly even higher than Goat. But, not the play right now.

[LoudmouthLee]

Whoa. I'm #5 (cross posting). That makes goat at -1. I dont think I want to move my vote, though. Just alerting the masses.

[Vendagoat]

Look I've started a case on you because you used the term "feeling" and now after seeing how you have justified it, you have given away you had some form of knowledge. You knew XyZ was scum and now you know I am scum.

How can you make such allegations unless you have knowledge of the scum pairings. Which means, your scum. Now the question lies, are you ice or fire?

You realise that you have to be scum for this make sense right?

Not at all. She hit XYZ and claimed it was luck. Now she is targeting me and says I am scum.

How can someone have their cake and eat it too? She must know something, which is why I am asking her if she is fire or ice? Getting lucky and then claiming her knowledge is a dead give away she knows something.

[CrashTextDummie]

When and why did you drop your suspicion of me, LML?

[Vendagoat]

Jokes are scumtells.

I shall have to remember this. Mafia scum is serious business.

[mneme]

Jokes are, in fact, often scumtells. Not because scum can't be funny (it so can) but because in the past, scum have often ended up being he ones who made the jokes. I'm not about to come up with a theory for -why- scum joke more than town.

[Vendagoat]

(this is outside of game talk)
Well that kind of sucks for me as humor is a large part of my life. I hate being serious all of the time and it grates on my nerves.

Seeing as how it is a scum tell I may want to rethink my participation in these games.

[YogurtBandit]

Official Vote Count #12

Vendagoat[5](mneme,AE,CTD,Mert,LML)

LoudmouthLee[1](Glork)
mneme[1](MrBuddyLee)
AutumnEvenings[1](Vendagoat)

With 10 alive, it is 6 to lynch.

Not Voting[2] (Crub, Stewie)

[Mert]

It's more when one jokes in lieu of any content that it's a tell, rather than just generally being a funny guy. If you put your jokes and what have you amongst some pretty serious analysis and gameplay then you'll have no problem at all.

[mneme]

Vend: it's not a huge deal. Just develop a solid history of humor and you can get people to take it as a style point -- assuming you're ever cast as town, that is.

[mneme]

Mert: well, joking about being scummy is still always scummy. But that's kind of a special case.

[Mert]

Okay yes, given. Joking about how scummy you are is scumtelltastic.

[Vendagoat]

technically guys, everything is a scumtell.

I've never even heard of a town tell.

Personally I think there is a giant problem with people's mentalities on this game. Simple logic. if you have a group of people, you know someone is scum and you only know your identity, then everyone besides you is possibly scum. Noone actually plays that. Most people pick one person for personal, emotional or simple randomness and go with that. It just doesn't strike me as the best way.

[Vendagoat]

Anyways I have to go to the gym and work my ass off, so let's get this out of the way.

unvote, VOTE:Vendagoat

Last night I targeted AE and didn't get a kill. So there is your next kill tomorrow. Check with your doc and see what he says, but I'm damn convinced even without that. On a personal note I'd love to know how she figured out the pairing in 31 posts. That just seems a bit odd to me.

Regardless I think i got a bit of the screw on this game. I like XYZ, he's funny, just not a great scum partner. I thought about tossing him under the bus a few times, but in this kind of game, you desperately need a partner.

To all of you good game, it was fun, to a point. My guess for AE's partner is either MBL or mneme. Don't know for sure though so take that for what you will.

[Guardian]

Official Vote Count #12.1 -- End of Day VC

Vendagoat[6](mneme, AE, CTD, Mert, LML, Vendagoat)

LoudmouthLee[1](Glork)
mneme[1](MrBuddyLee)


Not Voting[2] (Crub, Stewie)

With 10 alive, it took 6 to lynch -- Vendagoat was lynched!

...

After yesterday's arduous and long day, you all try and get a quick move on today and search for

s

c

u

m

!

With the sun just barely rising above the distant icy mountaintops, you have already almost reached your decision -- you think that Vendagoat does not seem like a

townie

Five of you are gathering around him, and you realize you will only need one more to aid you in casting him into the pit...



However, as you gather around him, the heat becomes intense. You notice that something odd is happening to

Vendagoat

-- his skin is starting to turn red. He continues to heat up, and after one last graceful soliloquy he burst into flames. His ashes float away along the breeze, and only minutes later there is no trace of him having ever been there. You realize that he was the last member of the

Fire Mafia

.

As you watched his ashes float away on the breeze towards the distant mountain peaks, you feel somehow that in floating towards the sun he is going home.

Your gaze lowers to the icy caps of the mountains though, and you are reminded of the grim reality -- though you no longer have to deal with the

Fire Mafia

, both members of the

Ice Mafia

remain.

Shaken by this thought, you go about your daily business somberly, and go to bed not without some trepidation as to what tomorrow's dawn may bring.

You are comforted that an

Insulator

remains that must decide to protect someone from dying tonight. You are grimly aware, though, that the two members of the

Ice Mafia

may discuss who to try and freeze amongst themselves. Both groups must notify me of their decision before dawn.

The sun will rise more or less

exactly

two

days from now

. This is my discretion; I don't want day starting on a Friday; if any players have a problem with this, PM me and let me know. I may consider moving the deadline back to three days, but two days makes sense to me.

All choices not in by the deadline will be a no-choice, or randomized! You may change your choice after submitting it, but be sure to have a choice in by that time! Sleep well!

[Guardian]

You wake up and rush to the center of town, as you do every morning. You are in a hurry, as there is a chill in the air that makes you feel uneasy -- it is much colder than it has been in the past few days.

You look up at the sun, questioning that it is doing its job of warming you this morning -- and as your gaze passes over those ice covered mountains you are all to easily reminded that two

Ice Mafia

remain.

You reach the center of town, and gather around the

Pit of Eternal Darkness

as you are accustomed to doing every morning. In the morning twilight, it is still hard to make out the faces of those remaining, but you realize that your trepidations were not unwarranted -- there is one fewer of you gathered than there was last night.

In a few moments, your eyes become accustomed to the darkness, and you scan the faces of those around you. To your dismay, Glork is not there.

You rush to his hut, and look inside. You are awestruck by the gruesome scene.

Glork

, in a cowering pose, is icy blue and

frozen solid

from head to toe. His feet are frozen to a small circular sheet of ice surrounding him on the ground, and when one of you attempts to move him, you realize that the bond between the ice and ground is so strong that he is stuck there.

Your stomach churns at the thought of leaving him like this, and after your attempts to move him fail repeatedly, you come to the consensus that the floor around him should be melted so he can have a proper burial in the pit.

However, due to the extremely low temperature, you are unable to get a fire started, and have no choice but to shut the door and leave him there, stricken, in the hut.

As the ice did not have the same effect on him as it did on your fallen comrade Sefer, and because the ice around him was confined to such a small area, you all agree that he has to be the

Insulator

. His magicks almost allowed him to fend of the ice -- but not quite.

Horrified that your one protector is now gone from you, you return to the center of town with the solemn resolve to rid your town of the

Ice Mafia

.

With 8 of you alive, it will take 5 to lynch. Your

deadline is two weeks and 12 hours from now

. Lynch the scumz!

[mneme]

vote: AE

There is, of course, a chance that Glork protected her. But odds are with us here, especially since there was a time for him to respond to speculation claiming he didn't protect her.

[Glork]

Bah, go town, etc.

[Stewie]

vote: AE

I think the chances of Glork protecting AE are low enough that this might be worth a shot. If we are wrong, however, then we'll be at 7, then 6 after the night. Therefore, if we do lynch wrong and I'm the one offed at night, don't forget to do a no lynch to bring it down to 5 players.

[LoudmouthLee]

STOP STOP STOP.

Those are 2 VERY quick votes, and should be unvoted. With Glork dead, and someone (I need to find out who, and will on reread) told Glork to NOT give his protection.

Now, we have a situation. We will NEVER know if AE was protected by Glork. So, Vendagoat could very easily just have attacked the protected AE. I'm rereading, and will post again after I find the said post.

I repeat, with these 2 votes out of the gate, DO NOT QUICKLYNCH AE

[LoudmouthLee]

I'm not sure whether I want to know who Glork protected. Obviously, the Fire mafia does -- they missed their kill, so they want to know whether they found Ice last night (lynch!) had bad luck and crossed with a protect. And in a way, the town's interest coincides with theirs -- if they found Ice, we do want to lynch them (Ice, that is), whereas if they targeted whoever Glork protected, we probably don't.

...and it just so happens to be one the people who, out of the gate, voted AE.

How very interesting.

Vote: Mneme

[LoudmouthLee]

(Triple Post! Sorry!)

We're in a curious perdicament. We have lynched correctly twice in a row. Now, if we lynch incorrently twice in a row, WE LOSE. (6 townies, 2 scum). We have played VERY well and all we are right now is one townie better than the WORST POSSIBLE NEWBIE SETUP.

We need to be very careful here. I feel that these "quick two votes" by Stewie and Mneme are indicative to their inability to read the situation properly.

We're NOT in good shape here.

In addition to my vote on Mneme before, I want to add an

FoS: Stewie

[AutumnEvenings]

I'll address the other stuff in a seperate post, because I have something I really,

really

want to say right now.

Most of you don't know me. For the record, I usually am mildly amused by adhom attacks leveled towards me in games (and I also take them as a sign that the player knows their argument is complete trash anyway). And it takes a lot for anything said or done in-game to get to me on a personal level.

However

, one thing that is very, very important to me is my reputation for being an extremely ethical player. So I found this quote by Vendagoat to be completely and entirely out of line:

On a personal note I'd love to know how she figured out the pairing in 31 posts. That just seems a bit odd to me.

That, coupled with a few things he said earlier, made me feel like I was being accused of cheating. I contacted Guardian with my concerns and told him to run all the IP checks on me and such, but he said that really wouldn't prove anything anyway. I also told him I'd be posting about this issue on the thread, as this is very important to me.

For the record, how I figured it out is

exactly

what I said on thread. I thought their early interactions looked scum-buddy-ish. I wasn't convinced of it, but thought if one was scum, the other had a high probability of being scum as well. I was much more suspicious of Vendagoat than I was of XYZ (despite him attempting to portray XYZ as the cause of his downfall) due to his independent behavior.

I am not an alt, and I have no other accounts on this board. I did not engage in any off-thread communication. I did nothing against either the letter or the spirit of the rules.

I simply read the thread.

[AutumnEvenings]

Now, back to the game.

I know for a fact that I am not mafia. So there are two possibilities:

1)

Vendagoat actually did try to kill me Night One, but I was protected by the doctor.

or

2)

Vendagoat tried to target someone else

, and that kill failed because that person was mafia or was protected by Glork.

Here's what we know:
a) The Fire mafia missed their kill
b) Mafia members are nightkill immune
c) Glork was the doctor, and must have protected

someone

. That person would also have been immune to the kill.
d) Vendagoat was Fire mafia. This is important, because it means he

does not have the best interests of the town in mind

.
e) Vendagoat claimed that he targetted me in the same post where he self-hammered, thus preventing anyone else from posting. This means, of course, that Glork could not tell us whether I was who he protected or not. (This also means that it was in Ice's best interest to kill Glork, as if he had lived, he would have claimed his heal, and for all they know, it very well could have been me, as I am not one of them. They needed the uncertainty, because it was fairly obvious that I'd receive a lot of attention today.)

I honestly don't see the point of self-hammering (at all, but especially if you have no remaining scum buddies you're trying to protect)

except

that it ends the day and thus all communication ceases. Clearly, Vendagoat wants me dead. I don't know if that's just because he's mad at me for fingering and lynching his team, or if it's because he's throwing in with the Ice team, suspects I'm town (because he missed a kill on someone other than me, or because...well, I

am

town, and aside from the fact that I didn't die (and, according to Vendagoat, have a shitty attitude), I haven't seen any arguments against me, and I clearly am engaged in critical thinking and have been successful with catching scum thus far), and wants me dead because he views me as a threat to the other mafia team as well. Given the nature of his play yesterday, I'm much more inclined to believe the former, though the latter could have something to do with it as well.

---------------

If anyone has any questions or concerns, go ahead and ask. I am pro-town, so I will not quietly let myself be lynched. But I also don't really want to spend all day defending myself. Right now, we're in an odd situation, as I don't believe voting records from Days One and Two will be of much use, since Ice had no more knowledge of the Fire mafia than we did. I feel like we're back to square one, and need to look for people whose behavior seems scummy in general, or for possible links between players. (I don't think nightkill spec will be of much use--everyone had a reason to kill Glork, since he was a claimed doc and possessed information which might have cleared me, and I read Sefer yesterday and didn't see anything insightful there either, but I suppose I could give it another look.)

Anyway, that's kind of it for now.

Also, if any of you want me replaced due to concerns like Vendagoat expressed, I won't take any issue with that, as the integrity of the game should come first (though I know I did nothing wrong).

[MrBuddyLee]

Autumn is by far our most likely scum.

mFOS: Lee for protecting

. It's possible that Glork protected her, but can we afford to take that chance?

I think we should analyze the likelihood that she was protected and move forward from there.