8:4 Vanilla Nightless [TM2015] - GAME OVER

[Nachomamma8]

ABR, if Nacho flips town what will you then do?

I think that flipping GreyICE would be a great idea.

You don't think that if I'm town, my reads are not worth listening to?
You don't think Nacho/Llamarble/Ffery/Thor know shit about this game?
If I flip town, you treat my words like the fucking gospel because I've been putting work into this game. I'm not fucking around, I'm not playing poorly, I'm not getting lynched because I'm playing a bad game as town. Don't let me die and then ignore what I've put in this game: don't you fucking dare make all of this useless.

[Nachomamma8]

The most informative lynches are GreyICE and Nacho (Two of my town reads :\), GreyICE reveals the most if mafia however if she flips town we gain little to nothing except an even more suspicious looking kagami.

When I flip town, it will tell you that twice Kagami served as a counterwagon to town and twice she didn't get lynched. When I flip town, there is also a very clear picture of the game that I'm making painfully clear in thread right now.

Lynching GreyICE for information ignores pretty much all the information you gain from mislynching me, which would also be one of those things that would make me frustrated and angry and sad, so let's not do that.

[Nachomamma8]

what I do agree with him is that Kagami’s #341 and #349 pushing Sotty points away from them being partners, which therefore enforces the stronger scum read on Kagami.

Kagami herself said that she didn't expect that plan to actually go through.
I don't think this point is very good at all.

As far as the Eddie read goes, it’s a weaker read but the conviction for his pushes seems genuine even if the logic is flawed?

My scumread there became much much much much stronger when mollie replaced into the game. She wouldn't let me drown if she was townreading me, she would be yelling at Eddie and making sure her words actually got into the thread as opposed to just "oh nacho's town" and then zero followup, which is reasoning I think singer understands and trusts.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Your wagon isn't a counterwagon to Kagami. That doesn't make sense.

Hoopla (7) - Seraphim, Metal Sonic, EddieFenix, Kagami, ZZZX, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE
Kagami (3) - Nachomamma8, wgeurts, Hoopla

wgeurts was voting Kagami at the time we lynched Hoopla, now he's voting you. Seraphim had been pushing for Hoopla for as long as you have been pushing for Kagami. Eddie isn't voting you.

Saying that your wagon is a Kagami counterwagon, and comparing it to D1 at deadline is nonsense.

[Nachomamma8]

I felt his scum hunting way too weak.

and there is no sacrifice because it ends up with nothing happening with "oh god i was wrong" kind of calling once its done and its gone.

sadly thats how it works out most of the time when scum do it.

I honestly felt his play was subpar. I need to re-read him...

Saying my scumhunting is weak when you haven't made an attempt to analyze it and rip it apart is really really a dumb thing to say.
Saying there's no sacrifice because I'm not making contingency plans if wrong: why do you think that I'm interacting with Kagami as much as I have? Why do you think I'm trying to form a gameplan after my death? Because I'm a crazy dude who's just typing at his keyboard because "wheee!"??

[Nachomamma8]

Your wagon isn't a counterwagon to Kagami. That doesn't make sense.

Hoopla (7) - Seraphim, Metal Sonic, EddieFenix, Kagami, ZZZX, Albert B. Rampage, GreyICE
Kagami (3) - Nachomamma8, wgeurts, Hoopla

wgeurts was voting Kagami at the time we lynched Hoopla, now he's voting you. Seraphim had been pushing for Hoopla for as long as you have been pushing for Kagami. Eddie isn't voting you.

Saying that your wagon is a Kagami counterwagon, and comparing it to D1 at deadline is nonsense.

It's the only other wagon that exists to mine.
That is my definition of a counterwagon.

[Nachomamma8]

Before I go, I need everyone to agree that they will follow my reads that when I'm gone. It is optimal town strategy to play popcorn lynching in this situation (two mislynches in a row in an 8:4 nightless) because our voting to power is going to go to shit when I'm gone. The lynches I want are:

Kagami --> EddieFenix --> Sotty --> Seraphim

I understand the Eddie over Sotty case is surprising and weird to most, but I'm scumreading mollie at the moment and that read takes priority over pretty much anything else (Kagami goes first because her scumflip is literally the best thing this game can get).

The townies in this game are:

ABR
ZZZX
Metal Sonic
wgeurts

---gap---

Zar
GreyICE

From this point on, you operate as a group. The best thing I can do for you is be the cement Hoopla talked about yesterday: if you have any doubts, any questions about that group, let me know and I'll get to them as soon as possible. I will not focus on defending myself as much anymore because I do believe my death can be a really good thing for town: I'm going down, but I'm going to make sure the scumteam is absolutely fucked when that hammer vote on me.

I know I'm a dramatic person. I'm sorry, I have a lot of fun when I'm playing mafia. That doesn't mean I'm being emotional about this. That doesn't mean that I'm wrong about optimal play here. Don't go "oh, nacho freaked out/nacho's a weirdo/nacho's dumb/nacho played poorly" because that's not the truth in any world. I don't get this way often about games, but this game turned out to be absolutely perfect for the things that I'm good at doing, and I'm putting in the work, I'm putting in the time, I'm doing my part for this town win.

[Albert B. Rampage]

That's a competing wagon, not a counterwagon.

Look,you can't have all four players you think are town voting you, and then sincerely believe that none of the scum are willing to join the four town to vote you out. That's the most counterintuitive thinking you can possibly hatch up. More likely, is that you're scum, and scum don't want to bus you. They're hoping your wagon will go away and they can mislynch Kagami. I don't believe for a second that you sincerely think any of this is true.

[Albert B. Rampage]

You have me, sonic, wgeurts and zzzy up there as town to try to flatter us into unvoting you. You have a twisted mind. You will do anything to win. Hopefully the town that remain off your wagon can come out of lurking and place a vote to end your struggle.

[Nachomamma8]

ABR: I was frustrated with you earlier because I didn't understand your approach, but I understand it now. You are who brought this town together. You are the guiding hand, and you are the voice. Please, trust me in this moment and carry out my lynches when I'm gone: your goal is to keep the town together, and, if the worst happens and Kagami flips town, it is your job and your job alone to tear down the town block and form a new one. If Kagami is town, please place faith in her like you've placed faith in me. I love the way you've brought this town together with nothing but unfiltered passion: don't let go of that after I flip town.

Metal Sonic: Don't be afraid to have a little faith in other people. The missteps you are making are because you're taking too much on your back all on once: you have made strong pushes, you have played well. But your biggest mistake has been shutting people out. Stop shutting people out. If you disagree with the game plan, bring BBMolla into the conversation, tell him Nacho sent you: he's a strong player who is underestimated very very easily because he's inconsistent and distracted by shinies just a *little* too easily. He will understand exactly what I'm doing here.

ZZZX: Don't let up. You're falling behind, you're not putting the heart you were when this game first started. Yeah, the game lags sometimes and lynches don't happen instantly, but that doesn't mean nothing is happening and putting that heart and impatience into looking over the game more and putting your thoughts in the thread is going to help people see how town you are a lot a lot a lot. You also have a problem of shutting people out like Metal Sonic: don't do that. You know how shitty it feels when people call you a bad player and when people don't give you a chance to contribute, so don't make the same mistake they do.

Wgeurts: Have faith in me! Your play this game is great, your move onto me despite not scumreading me was enough to demonstrate exactly what ABR was doing and exactly what this game needed, and thank you for that. I don't think Sotty is town. I don't think Zar is scum. Make sure to look over why I think the things I do before I die so you can ask me questions if you need them. Also, I'm a guy.

GreyICE: I'm glad to play with you again, you're a fucking great player and I forgot actually how much I enjoyed playing with you when you're on your game. Don't get distracted by dumb shit, and please please please please please use my flip to its highest potential. I know you don't understand some of my play but you understand enough and you were my rock this game, so thank you for that. I'd love to play scum against you sometime in the future: I'm actually pretty proud of my improvements there and am pretty confident I'd steamroll the hell out of you

Zar: I didn't realize how strong you actually were as a player until your recent posts, please post more. Your logic is on point, your reasons for reading people make perfect fucking sense, and I'm glad I got to gain newfound respect for you as a player. I don't actually have anything except "be louder, be more aggressive" and apologies for not reaching out sooner: I honestly had no idea how to react to the swap because it was quiet and weird and I didn't really understand reasons for why, but I also don't understand the dynamic between you-Empire-Tammy, and I can see you being frustrated with not being seen because you are a very strong player.

Kagami: If you are town, you are the only chance town has of winning. If you are town, I have failed, and you are going to die. Come to terms with that fact. Prepare for death. Be aggressive, be open about your thoughts, be loud. There's no reason to hide those pocket scumreads because you absolutely 100% are going to die and there's literally nothing you can do in order to prevent that death. What you CAN do now is set the stage for a town win after you're gone: be the cement I'm trying to be now.

[Nachomamma8]

That's a competing wagon, not a counterwagon.

Look,you can't have all four players you think are town voting you, and then sincerely believe that none of the scum are willing to join the four town to vote you out. That's the most counterintuitive thinking you can possibly hatch up. More likely, is that you're scum, and scum don't want to bus you. They're hoping your wagon will go away and they can mislynch Kagami. I don't believe for a second that you sincerely think any of this is true.

I believe that scum want to use my town flip to their benefit. I think that scum are going to use my town flip to rip the town block apart: that's what Kagami's recent posts imply. I think Eddie/Seraphim are planning to put the last couple of votes on me due to Seraphim's stated scumread and Eddie's bullshit "ohhh i have just the strangest weird feeling that Nacho is scum and mollie is wrong about them", but I think Kagami's going to lead a charge on ZZZX while she's going down while Sotty pegs at Metal Sonic. They can't do that as effectively if they mislynch me.

[Nachomamma8]

You have me, sonic, wgeurts and zzzy up there as town to try to flatter us into unvoting you. You have a twisted mind. You will do anything to win. Hopefully the town that remain off your wagon can come out of lurking and place a vote to end your struggle.

I understand why I need to die: your feeling is absolutely correct. If I were scum, I would try to play as closely to this as possible: I would push the most alienated town and, if I got pressure, I'd make a gigantic post to show that I'm ~super~ invested in the game and I'd compliment townies as much as humanly possible to make myself more likeable and thus make myself harder to lynch. But that's why my lynch is important: when I flip green, you see my faith in all of you is just exactly as I've typed it. I want you to use my appreciation of you as a player and the good parts of what I've seen in all of your games and I want you to use it to crush the everloving shit out of the scumteam.,

I understand that most people will not understand what I'm doing: I'm doing exactly what Hoopla did for me, except I'm trying to make a bigger splash when I'm doing it. I can't do this in every game because I don't feel this way about 99% of games, but when this moment happens, it's EXACTLY what I live for. And it's why I wanted Team Mafia to come back because people are putting their hearts into this thing and it's what makes me feel close to scummers despite not getting the chance to meet them or really interact with them outside of a game context.

[EddieFenix]

@Nacho, she's not giving me the exacts because it's meta she says she has on you that she won't drop. I'll trust her on this.

[quadz08]

Votecount 2.7

Nachomamma8 (4) - Albert B. Rampage, ZZZX, Metal Sonic, wgeurts
Kagami (3) - GreyICE, Nachomamma8, Zar
Seraphim (1) - Sotty7

Not Voting (3) - EddieFenix, Kagami, Seraphim

With 11 alive, it's 6 to lynch.

Deadline is 4/18 at 6 PM Eastern, which is in (expired on 2015-04-18 18:00:00).

[Nachomamma8]

Me taking myself out of the game shows that I'm not bullshitting about the faith I have in you guys. It removes a pretty significant worry (I'm manipulating people), and I think getting that worry out of the way and letting people take these words like what they are will do fantastic things for the gamestate.

I am very very very confident in the scumteam. But I'm not a crazy person, I realize that might not be the case. But this town is a very, very strong town. People directly in the center have heart, they have aggressiveness, they have desire to win. The people outside the scumteam have great minds AND they are invested in the game AND they have so so many more people behind them, I ~know~ deep in my heart that town wants it more, and thus town's going to win. Every single person on that list has personally reached out to me in a way that I recognized and appreciated. I am fairly confident that list contains a lot of town, and those town are the town that are going to lead us to victory.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm going to look at Eddie again. Point me to the posts of why he's scum.

[Nachomamma8]

@Nacho, she's not giving me the exacts because it's meta she says she has on you that she won't drop. I'll trust her on this.

That's really difficult for me to believe!

Mollie reads me by interacting with me. She knows this and has told me as much, I know this as a result. Why then, do you think she would make no effort at all in interacting with me? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

Mollie also is as proud of her ability to read me as I am of my ability to read her. When she has a read on me, everyone knows it. If she was reading me as town, she wouldn't let me die. She especially especially wouldn't let me die without any effort to solidify her read on me whatsoever.

[Albert B. Rampage]

OK Nacho, I'll vote Eddie with you if you do most of the heavy lifting, and we can get one of Sonic and zzzy on board.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm going to look at Eddie again. Point me to the posts of why he's scum.

My strongest reason for Eddie scum is mollie's interactions with me. When mollie is town, she interacts with me a lot, and it comes very very easily to her. When she interacts with me as scum, she has to force herself to do it which means it happens less often and less organically. I can't see her leaving Eddie with a "Nacho is town for meta reasons I don't want to talk about" and nothing more: I would expect her to ask him to relay messages for her or pick out specific things in my play or talk about my reads. If she felt uncomfortable with doing that because she didn't want to make Eddie feel like a delivery boy, she would tell him as much and she would make sure I knew why she wasn't interacting with me as much as she usually was.

The reasons for Eddie scum I've outlined in my big post, I can pull up the specific section if you want me to.

[Nachomamma8]

OK Nacho, I'll vote Eddie with you if you do most of the heavy lifting, and we can get one of Sonic and zzzy on board.

Okay!

Vote: EddieFenix

[Albert B. Rampage]

Eddie and Seraphim are giving me really bad vibes for not voting. Kagami isn't suspicious, because he would be all over voting you if he was scum.

Rein in GreyIce to vote for Eddie, will you?

Vote: Eddie

[EddieFenix]

-shrug- Alright Nacho. She told me specifically she didn't want to out that meta that she has on you, and I'm asking her to point out the posts where that supposed signal is coming from for her because I'm willing to TRUST her in her read. But, if that's not a good enough, then go ahead and lynch me.

[Albert B. Rampage]

But, if that's not a good enough, then go ahead and lynch me.

Yeah, hopefully, that's what we're going to do.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Nacho if you stop voting Eddie for any reason, my vote is right back on you every day.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Eddie prefers to die than to vote Nacho. Interesting.