[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

This forum is for discussion of individual Open Setups, including theoretical balance.
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Post Post #8000 (ISO) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 9:57 pm

Post by Bicephalous Bob »

Telling players the identity of players they want dead never ends well

I'd change the goon to 2 mafia lovers and the wolf to 2 werewolf lovers
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Post Post #8001 (ISO) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:45 pm

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 7993, LlamaFluff wrote:@AA - Can you run the numbers on win chances? Its probably not too difficult but I wont have time to run them myself for a few days.


So I spent some time go over the setup... So here are my findings. Please let me know what you think about this. I am not sure If i have used right logic here.. if not, please feel free to correct me.

Win Chances Calculator - Please follow the below link.. This calculator was built by someone (I have no idea) but i do know it exists and it is pretty easy to use it especially to see win chances by % with no of players.

http://games-net.de/hosted/tggc/trash/m ... ss=1&do=Go!

So here are the results for this

Town: 59.69% Win chances, However this will not be accurate as Mafia have vengeful so Mafia three additional chances to get rid of a confirmed townie which increases the win chance for team mafia between 45% to 53%

My conclusion is town may have max of 53% chances of winning where as mafia may have min 45% chances of loosing. Hope this make some sense.

Or if there are any alternate method to calculate this.. Please do let me know.. thank you!!!
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Post Post #8002 (ISO) » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:04 pm

Post by JasonWazza »

In post 8001, ArcAngel9 wrote:
Town: 59.69% Win chances


Which according to the calculator is them picking 10% better then random.

Essentially it's an 8v3 nightless (3 venge kills all taken out as these are certain to happen)

An 8v3 for popcorn is a weaker mafia and a stronger town then your generally given, and even with the misplacing of the gun it is probably a lot more town sided then popcorn.

And because the gun is always on the most scummy person anyway it's not like a townie person will get the gun to kill themselves on the vengeful mafia.
Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.
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Post Post #8003 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:13 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 8002, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 8001, ArcAngel9 wrote:
Town: 59.69% Win chances


Which according to the calculator is them picking 10% better then random.

Essentially it's an 8v3 nightless (3 venge kills all taken out as these are certain to happen)

An 8v3 for popcorn is a weaker mafia and a stronger town then your generally given, and even with the misplacing of the gun it is probably a lot more town sided then popcorn.

And because the gun is always on the most scummy person anyway it's not like a townie person will get the gun to kill themselves on the vengeful mafia.


I see your point. And a good alternate is to make this is 18P open game because 8vs4 giving increasing mafia win chances to 50% and brought town win chances to 58%

With that said.. the updated setup is...

3 Vengeful Mafia
4 Mafia Goons

11 Townies ( Including Gun bearer)

(Mafia will have Day Talk, Night less)


Any comments on this?
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Post Post #8004 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:21 am

Post by JasonWazza »

Mafia will have Day Talk


Why?
Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.
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Post Post #8005 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:29 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 8004, JasonWazza wrote:
Mafia will have Day Talk


Why?


Since It's Night less... the popcorn mafia had day talk too.
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Post Post #8006 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 12:53 am

Post by JasonWazza »

Question, who wins if everyone dies? (vengeful is killed by townie as the last mafia member and the last town member.)
Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
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Post Post #8007 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:15 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Mafia wins whey they control more than 50% of votes
Town wins when they eliminate Mafia team.
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Post Post #8008 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:16 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Town can still vote, they can choose to lynch if gun bearer doesn't want to shoot.
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Post Post #8009 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:21 am

Post by JasonWazza »

OK so apparently i played a different popcorn mafia (this one) and wasn't aware that voting was a thing.
Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.
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Post Post #8010 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:26 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

In post 8009, JasonWazza wrote:OK so apparently i played a different popcorn mafia (this one) and wasn't aware that voting was a thing.


I am surprised, the earlier games I played had something like this and another one didn't. the micro games I have run had an option to vote. I think it is safe to have vote. What if Gun bearer doesn't want to shoot being scared by Vengeful goon?
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Post Post #8011 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:40 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

And I want to hear those golden words.. " this is good to go"
someone might say it before I faint :P

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Post Post #8012 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 1:56 am

Post by JasonWazza »

You tell the gunbearer to quit being a bitch and shoot his gun?
Returning win rate: 4/1, 80%
In the process of creating a game to mod, we will see what it holds.
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Post Post #8013 (ISO) » Thu Apr 02, 2015 2:02 am

Post by ArcAngel9 »

Its their gun, their choice. I am just the creator ;)
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Post Post #8014 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:58 am

Post by BBmolla »

Reviving this for re-evaluation.

Mass Paranoia


21 Players

3 Mafia 1-shot PGOs

3 Werewolf 1-shot PGOs

15 Town 1-shot PGOs


  • Daystart
  • The PGO ability does not passively activate. The PGO ability can be used on one night of the players choosing.
  • All who use a PGO ability in the same night join a neighborhood together. This neighborhood has daytalk and will exist for the rest of the game.
  • Mafia are bulletproof to Werewolf nightkills and Werewolves are bulletproof to Mafia nightkills. However, if a Mafia activates PGO and a Werewolf tries to kill him, the Werewolf dies. This works the other way around too.
  • 1:1:1 situations automatically no lynch.
  • Scum have daytalk.


Major Paranoia


12 Players

2 Mafia 1-shot PGOs

2 Werewolf 1-shot PGOs

8 Town 1-shot PGOs


  • Daystart
  • The PGO ability does not passively activate. The PGO ability can be used on one night of the players choosing.
  • All who use a PGO ability in the same night join a neighborhood together. This neighborhood has daytalk and will exist for the rest of the game.
  • Mafia are bulletproof to Werewolf nightkills and Werewolves are bulletproof to Mafia nightkills. However, if a Mafia activates PGO and a Werewolf tries to kill him, the Werewolf dies. This works the other way around too.
  • 1:1:1 situations automatically no lynch.
  • Scum have daytalk.
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Post Post #8015 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:25 am

Post by BBmolla »

Domination Mafia


9 Players

3 Mafia Goons

6 Vanilla Townies


  • Normal lynching mechanics do not apply.
  • Everyone has two votes. These votes may not be used on the same player.
  • Once someone has been voted by majority, they cannot be unvoted.
  • The two voted are the only players Mafia may nightkill. They must nightkill one of them.
  • Once two mafia members die, voting mechanics become normal and mafia lose their nightkill.
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Post Post #8016 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 10:29 am

Post by Otolia »

I really like the domination concept. 6-3 isn't in favor of town at all and I don't see how the current mechanics change the EV that much. As for possible PR, JK, Doc or Watcher/Tracker would too powerful in my opinion unless they get their powers if they're voted.
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Post Post #8017 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:52 am

Post by TierShift »

I like the multiball pgo setups.

I suggest you run the numbers for domination mafia a few times. I have no idea about the balance.
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Post Post #8018 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:04 pm

Post by Cheery Dog »

Re: Domination
So the only way for mafia to die is for two to vote two of them into the thing?
It's pointless making the the game continue after two die then, as town will town who the third is.

I guess mafia may need to decide when to wifom someone if the other is likely to be brought up.
But town's best play is to just keep sending the person scum didn't kill to the chopping block.
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Post Post #8019 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:55 pm

Post by BBmolla »

In post 8018, Cheery Dog wrote:So the only way for mafia to die is for two to vote two of them into the thing?

In theory, yes
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Post Post #8020 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:56 pm

Post by BBmolla »

In post 8018, Cheery Dog wrote:It's pointless making the the game continue after two die then, as town will town who the third is.

In theory, you could do a crazy play and kill scum over town.
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Post Post #8021 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:56 pm

Post by BBmolla »

Best solution is probably making it White Flag though.

Edit: Wait no. Cause the first mafia to die will probably get the second mafia killed as well. So normally two mafia will be caught at once and then the third just has to be caught.
Edit2: Double nope, cause once one mafia is found they have to find both of the other two to kill them so never mind.
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Post Post #8022 (ISO) » Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:00 pm

Post by BBmolla »

Domination Mafia


9 Players

3 Mafia Goons

6 Vanilla Townies


  • White Flag
  • Normal lynching mechanics do not apply.
  • Everyone has two votes. These votes may not be used on the same player.
  • Once someone has been voted by majority, they cannot be unvoted.
  • The two voted are the only players Mafia may nightkill. They must nightkill one of them.
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Post Post #8023 (ISO) » Tue Apr 07, 2015 6:58 pm

Post by LlamaFluff »

In post 8003, ArcAngel9 wrote:
In post 8002, JasonWazza wrote:
In post 8001, ArcAngel9 wrote:
Town: 59.69% Win chances


Which according to the calculator is them picking 10% better then random.

Essentially it's an 8v3 nightless (3 venge kills all taken out as these are certain to happen)

An 8v3 for popcorn is a weaker mafia and a stronger town then your generally given, and even with the misplacing of the gun it is probably a lot more town sided then popcorn.

And because the gun is always on the most scummy person anyway it's not like a townie person will get the gun to kill themselves on the vengeful mafia.


I see your point. And a good alternate is to make this is 18P open game because 8vs4 giving increasing mafia win chances to 50% and brought town win chances to 58%

With that said.. the updated setup is...

3 Vengeful Mafia
4 Mafia Goons

11 Townies ( Including Gun bearer)

(Mafia will have Day Talk, Night less)


Any comments on this?


Few thoughts on this

1) I don't like being able to vote because that may just make the best play once you find someone town thinks is smart get the gun and then lynch regularly using them as confirmed town in nightless
2) You need to make a wiki page with sample roles, etc before this can be ran
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Post Post #8024 (ISO) » Wed Apr 08, 2015 5:38 am

Post by wgeurts »

(Or ask me to make one)

Edit:
Made one: http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... corn_Mafia
Just move it if you want the page to be called differently.
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