SMITE Role Madness Mafia (OVER AT LAST!)

[vezokpiraka]

Whoever asked someone not on tso wagon to vote is so dumb he needs to become a treestump. If a majority of players can't vote for tso there is no way we can lynch him.

[ZeL1nK2]

It's not about whether we can lynch him today, I'm just looking at possibilities like, "people voting you can no longer vote you this day phase."

Of course this means we can't lynch him today, but if this a different day phase with double-votes in play, it would be a different story. I know he can't be lynched today, I'm just testing different possibilities because there's nothing to actually lose from testing it.

[vezokpiraka]

Dude. We barely managed to get conseus on that lynch. In what kind of backwards world do you live in where rolefishing a proved role is a good idea to advance the game state?

[ZeL1nK2]

...

Firstly, it's not like Drixx was doing anything else with his vote, so I'm not harming the game state in any way.

Secondly, there is no harm in testing possibilities.

Thirdly, there is no "role-fishing" going on here.

At worst, nothing happens and I move on happy that I can rule something out. At best, we find out TSO was lying. I don't think this is likely, but it does not hurt to find out.

[Skybird]

you kind of missed that he is my current personal bodyguard and that skybird refuses to help

Really? Where did I refuse to help? My role is passive, so there's no way for me to protect you.

[vezokpiraka]

...

Firstly, it's not like Drixx was doing anything else with his vote, so I'm not harming the game state in any way.

Secondly, there is no harm in testing possibilities.

Thirdly, there is no "role-fishing" going on here.

At worst, nothing happens and I move on happy that I can rule something out. At best, we find out TSO was lying. I don't think this is likely, but it does not hurt to find out.

Look. Deathtunneling TSO was fun and productive. Now that that is over you need to move on or I'll consider you a scumbutt that is unhappy his mislynch failed.

[ZeL1nK2]

To be perfectly honest, I don't care at all what you consider me to be.

[Metal Sonic]

you kind of missed that he is my current personal bodyguard and that skybird refuses to help

Really? Where did I refuse to help? My role is passive, so there's no way for me to protect you.

Shhh

[Magua]

This is a pre-emptive prod dodge. Will post tomorrow night.

[mnemonicdevice]

Thoughts from recent posts (haven't been able to do that read through).

Ooba is town.
That is all.

Sorry for the limited amount of activity, have relatives over and haven't gotten on comp for weekend till right now.

[Imperium]

[Imperium]

So you think Imperium, my master, the scum lord, the slayer of innocents and defiler of all that is sacred and town, has a grand plan that involves not wanting to get rid of a potential threat and would rather push a mislynch on a useless slot?

Who's the scum team, again? And why are they not better lynches?

Your loyalty will not go unrewarded.

[ooba]

Finished going through D1. I kinda got tired in the end and rushed a bit - but I guess it doesn't matter since I'll update this.

While I've covered the entire day - I'll be concentrating on these three events:

a) Page 42: Early small wagon on Mantis (Ceph's predecessor)
- FT starts a push on the mantis wagon
- Imperium (Tammy) says she needs to talk to Nacho to move vote to Mantis
- Xombie joins in with a naked vote
- There's not much traction\discussion. Mastin says she might vote Mantis.
- FourTrouble keeps up the pressure but Mantis is replaced and Ceph joins in

b) Page 69 : Ceph gets wagon’d hard here
- I'll get into detail during individual player thoughts below. What happened was that FT + Solar Wind started a serious push on Ceph. We have a Ceph defense squad ranging from the light, to subtle replies to all out defense. This plus Ceph's play\talking down falcon makes the wagon die down.

c) Page 90 : A small push on Pere
- A small Pere push by imperium. Again some defense. Never gets as big as Ceph wagon and dies down in a couple of pages.

Spoiler: Farside

- The 'If there's any scum in my hood, it's probably PV' followed by the vote on PV later is town. The PV wagon died down but like all lurker wagons, there wasn't much support D1.
- During the Ceph wagon, farside came up with a full post on why Ceph is town. Again farside is a good enough player that WIFOM is tool she might use, but gut says not partners with Ceph.
- Plus while I'm not thrilled with the targets of D1 pushes (Rach, Ace) - I can't fault them too since those were scummy slots and most of the tunneling\cases felt town.
Overall: Town

Spoiler: Xombie

- The most weird thing with Xombie's play is that he voted MS a good 12 minutes after he makes his incredulous post. But responses to the early town wagon on him was genuine.
- On the mantis wagon, the naked vote plus no follow up\comment at all is *not* something I would see coming from a scum partner.
Overall: Leaning slight town

Spoiler: TSO

- There's nothing much to say about TSO's D1 play. While I was actually playing D1, I kept thinking scum wouldn't be this laid back or not care. I get the same feeling on the re-read.
- The only noteworthy part about interactions is when TSO defends PV because there was no real case. He also mentions 'I'm going to stay off this wagon'
Overall: Very slight town. Could be shifted to null too

Spoiler: TD\Zel

- This is most surprising find of D1 for me.
- First is TD's reaction with respect to the mantis wagon. FT's post surmises it best.
- Ceph's reasoning to vote TD is pretty weak. It feels like he took a small issue and acted like he had a problem with it to vote TD.
- While the Ceph wagon\pressure builds steam, TD votes Solar.
- TD also town reads Ceph for the Lie detector gambit. Which I'm finding hard to believe. TD voted Solar at the begging and again during the day - making me think there's a lot of Paranoia involved (esp. as Solar was towning it up a bit). The easy town read feels wrong.
- Ceph TD scum read also weakens.

TD's reaction to me wasn't town. Null at best.

VOTE: beastcharizard

- In both cases, I find it hard to believe that such strong scum reads virtually disappeared.
Overall: Scum based on interactions with Ceph. It feels like a bus that was dismantled after the growing pressure on Ceph. Plus earlier Mantis interactions.

Spoiler: Theaceofspades

- There's really not here on D1 to go with. Not many stances.
- Ceph's jump onto the ace wagon with 'That's 8 i believe' makes me think not partners with Ceph.
Overall: Slight town lean based on second point.

Spoiler: Bitmap(Esp)

- Bitmap's annoyance and power usage felt town.
Overall: Left a bit too early during the day to firm up this read but leaning town based on what I saw so far

Spoiler: MS

- The calling beast and TSO masons and lot of the posts are LoL. I just don't think scum would made half of those.
- I really didn't try looking into his posts too much since I had as town for the shot. I'll look into the shot in D2 to see if it felt like scum setting up a shot on fellow up.
Overall: If you had to ask me on D1 play alone, I'd still lean town cause no scum's going to do some of the stuff he did.

Spoiler: Blonde\Aeronatu\TWIE

- Blonde's play was null. Some people mentioned that 'some people take the game way too seriously' looked town. I did not see it.
- Ceph mentioning the soft claim in this post did surprise me. I assumed he fast read during his catch (like I did here) and I actually had to go back to see the post for the soft claim.
- Aeronauts catch up was really IIoA. Plus the 'wait a second' reaction to MS's discrepancies in claim seems faked. Why would scum MS be so stupid is a question begging to be asked.
- The scum list in post 1777 is like the whos-who of town {Farside, Solar Wind, Imperium, Fourtrouble, MetalSonic}. If someone has the time, please go through some of Aero's scum games and see how he makes his read lists.
- Lurked through the rest of the day
Overall: Prob. scum

Spoiler: FT

Overall: Sustained pressure on Mantis\Ceph makes this unlikely to be a bus. I don't see scum come out guns blazing on a very powerful teammate. Plus analysis\pushes is spot on. And all this even without taking the shot into account. Town.

Spoiler: Imperium

- Their start to the game seemed incredibly town. [Tammy on Nacho saying they were strongman scum]. The anger at the heartless govern\end of day mastin opposition was genuine - its something I felt too and I don't think that's fake-able from scum.
- Interactions wise they started the push on Pere, but they also did defend Ceph.
- There was also a 'multiball' comment somewhere that made me think town.
Overall: Town

Spoiler: Vyse\Heartless

- Ceph's reaction to Vyse is a bit scummy. I'd lynch this slot but they're really null. Every statement about Vyse seems to fit that mould.
- I also stand by not seeing Vyse's 'I'm gonna post notes' - sorry 'I'm off' as coming from scum. Not putting too much faith into this as this kind of thing trips me up. [The town read in GoT uPick - I forgot the name - Z]
- Heartless 'bullerproof' spec and the govern thing seemed town.
Overall: A mild town read - but nothing too solid here

Spoiler: Brantz\Skybird

- Brantz's initial posting felt odd in the pre confirmation stage - wanting to appear part of the group. Doesn't affect alignment. The replace out did feel towish.
- When I was reading along, I thought Skybird was town for adding pressure on Ceph during the push on him. Now when ISOing, I actually notice that's not followed up with a vote on Ceph. Still town more than scum feels from this.
- I also don't see a scum partner throwing a one game meta read of fellow scum. (Pere) Seems weak.
- Now skybird reverses this opinion on PV here. Mastins snipes this post saying how Skybird's reads mirror popular opinion. But, the pressure on PV had already died a couple of pages back and most people were now against lynching PV. Seems like town genuinely reversing reads.
- Now at the end of the day, Skybird's "Can you flashwagon me? Town needs a flip." was kinda weird. I don't have Skybird pegged as an emotional kinda player and the annoyance seems a bit odd (as opposed to Imperiums). But again, Skybird feels like a good enough player that scum him would know ageing Imperiums call to lynch them would only bring on added pressure than town cred.
Overall: Going with Town here. That's the read I had when reading along and while final ISO diluted that a bit, still town.

Spoiler: ZZZX

- Wow. A true null. Can't say much from 'Ceph vs Solar is twt' throwaway comment.
@ZZZX: You really need to start

playing

the games you sign up for. Limit the games you signup for until you can post consistently in all.

Spoiler: Vezo

- Vezo's initial read is fine.
- But his hard defense of Ceph is noteworthy.
- Also this is funny but "Lynching lurkers is better than lynching town who's actually doing something." that he said during Ceph's defense is the exact opposite of "Call me when you man up and decide to lynch scum and not slots that aren't even playing." today.
Overall: I'm having a tough time deciding here. First, I have a vezo meta read of town for this play this game. But his scum game is a two year old game (that I modded) that he won a scummy for. The most recent meta is Reck's game - but I guess scum vezo would ape his most recent town game. I'll need to see more D2 because I just can't make out from D1 play here.

Spoiler: House\Magua

- I hated the fact that the vengeful was offered to the town
- House defends Ceph on a lot of occasions. Whether it was telling TD that Occhams razor lost his last town game or questioning\chainsawing Skybird when Skybird mentions Ceph suspicion. However, the question to Ceph's read and the further strengthening of the town read seems like genuine town as opposed to scum theatre.
- Magua called PV and TD lynchbait. This probably looks worse to me on hindsight.
Overall: Leaning town. Slighter than the other reads.

Spoiler: Mastin

- D1 Play wise was very average. Barely any scumhunting
- Also these two interactions are noteworthy.
a) "If someone claimed to vig one of us three, I'd frankly take it as a scumclaim, not a vigclaim." (Three targets mentioned were AP\Mastin\Ceph)
b) "When Ceph and I have both pushed TD and TD has pushed back." as a reply to FT's scum team call out of Ceph\Mastin\TD\some lurkers. I'm also surprised she remembered this detail when coasting.
Overall: Can't determine anything from this day.

Based on D1 alone (for the most part - it's not like I forget what happened later)
Town: FT, MS, Farside, Imperium
Slight Town lean: Bitmap, Ace, Heartless, Skybird, House\Magua, TSO
Null: ZZZX, Vezo, Mastin
Scum: TD, Aeronaut

Back after D2.

[dramonic]

not currently home.
prods and votecount once I get home.

[Espeonage]

dodge

[ZZZX]

VLA ended today.

and will post today/tomorrow

notes: wtf this day didnt end yet

and

@the post about me null: yea i had problems at the start and i can really read games well without joining discussions :/

[Drixx]

This is the game that doesn't end; it goes on and on my friends;
some people started playing it, not knowing what it was;
and now they'll play forever just because ... {Go to Beginning}

[ZeL1nK2]

If it might actually convince people to think about it, I'll dig back through the ISO and pull stuff out in context and show why he reads scummy to me.

If you give me something to think about, then I'll think about it.

I don't really see you convincing people to think about it by not doing this, though, so if you believe he's scum then it's better to do it than not, no?

I mean, the main point of contention here is whether pikari-scum-with-Pumbaa says what he's said about Pumbaa D1 and then outright claims to have protected Pumbaa after no kill D2. I haven't talked in as much detail about why I don't really see the former as scum-scum, but I have talked a lot about the latter. If you disagree, why? Do you think Heartless is right and it was for temporary-at-best town credit?

[TheWayItEnds]

Can we lynch Ace yet?

[ZeL1nK2]

I would have liked to see a replacement for that slot but I have no issues with lynching it regardless. Other than the fact that people seem opposed to "lurker" lynches so I don't even know if there'd be enough support for it.

Then again, with how many people aren't playing the game at the moment, it's hard to gauge how much support there is for any lynch.

[Metal Sonic]

so, 21 day deadlines are absolutely fucking stupid

[ooba]

Ace is a bad lynch for two reasons:

a) First, both Pere's "Less posts than me etc." jump and Cephs "That's 8" jumps didn't feel like buses. They were more than ready to lynch Ace.

b) Second, Ceph mentions Ace twice in his 'To shoot' lists.

ace and peregrine are both good shots. beast, td and skybird are also acceptable.

ace/skybird/tso

I also advocate against shooting ooba

Especially the first one. I hardly think Ceph would have given a list of two scum buddies leading the list to MS-vig.

[Metal Sonic]

by reverse logic ceph would have advocated against shooting his scum buddy = you

[vezokpiraka]

I would have liked to see a replacement for that slot but I have no issues with lynching it regardless. Other than the fact that people seem opposed to "lurker" lynches so I don't even know if there'd be enough support for it.

Then again, with how many people aren't playing the game at the moment, it's hard to gauge how much support there is for any lynch.

You are trying to say that we don't want to lynch taos because he is a lurker.

We don't want to lynch Taos because he is town. Are you sure you aren't scum with all these pushes on town?

[ZeL1nK2]

I suppose you're right and a lack of scum pushes makes someone scum.

Which scum have you pushed, by the way?