Mini 474 - Bergamo Bump-Off (Game Over!)

[Hjallti]

random

vote: VampanezeHunter

[Hjallti]

For none native english speakers all English names are hard to pronounce!
I mean why for heavens sake does machine rhyme to mean and seen but not to line.
Partly omgus

FoS: all players with English names

especially with non existing words like 'vampaneze' in it (Does it rhyme to Japaneze?)

[Hjallti]

vampyrusddg, do you happen to be a vampaneze?

[Hjallti]

Hjallti, if it makes things easier just abbreviate the names

WeyounsLastClone can be WLC

VampaneseHunter can be VH

read my signature!
As reaction I antiabbreviated your name!

[Hjallti]

Are you stalking me? wouldn't be too far a trip in RL

depends where you are in the UK. Nearly once a month I'm a weekend in Bruges, and if you are in Dover or Hull there is a direct boat from Bruges. If your in Belfast, it wouldn't be that fast...

[Hjallti]

is that wales?

in the next week i'll try to check, but it won't be much.
just to be sure

unvote

[Hjallti]

I thought lurking was not playing the game, I am just absent this week I think death_omen is trying to put some strange light on me. I think it is scummy to do it witthout even noting the signature and the post were it is stated

FoS:death_omen

Hjallti will be back starting on Monday. This post was in response to the prod I sent him, but I hadn't noticed the posted V/LA in his sig. -Mod

[Hjallti]

I will make a summary tomorrow (Including an answer to Plessiez' questions), I'm just quickreading last pages now.

A lot of reading ahead.... Anyway the use of bold oversized letters at a forum could be referred of as

jesting

...

I will keep that in mind if I read tomorrow, and so I think that death_omen might have a very good reason to self hammer!

Jesters are possible in mini's, aren't they?

[Hjallti]

I will make a summary tomorrow (Including an answer to Plessiez' questions), I'm just quickreading last pages now.

I am sorry to tell you it toke 2 hours to make my quack (another game) summary, and this game happened to be the last I wanted to work on. It will be for tomorrow I'm afraid.

From the last posts I also get

Fos:Khelvaster

but I have to do a full read to get voting of course.

Is the no-jester argument not WIFOMy, in a sense? It is not a jester because he doesn't play like a jester?

[Hjallti]

From the last posts I also get

Fos:Khelvaster

but I have to do a full read to get voting of course.

I forgot to explain... quicklynch is a scumtell to avoid to much information. On the other hand if you play a game, you want to play it, and not to win it without really playing. It is like wanting to play baseball and hope to play at least one inning without opponents, thus guaranteeing you a vast advantage (even if you bend it to say that no replacement would be a towntell... one scum is enough to do the nightkill I would think)

[Hjallti]

@Malchonn:I guess I will added to the list when I have made my reasons more clear: At this point Khel just has to answer: Well Hjallti just read through quick so his opinion is not that interesting anyway, or something a like, and I would not even care to refute that.

[Hjallti]

Questions:

1) What do you think of WLC? Was he "jumpy"?
2) Do you think Khel was right to suggest that Muerrto was feeding death_omen lines?
3) Assuming you answered either of the above questions, why did you not make your thoughts known at the time?
4) What are your thoughts on what's happenened in the game over the last week?

1) No, I think he added to fast (see time stamps: 44-45) the random bit to do it with a purpose... it's like 'oh I forget the word random, I'll do it know' I can imagine he thought he shouldn't have done it the moment he hit submit, but then decided not to tell this because it might make it worse.
2) I don't think Muerrto was feeding lines, but I can imagine Khelvaster getting upset that the wrong player answered, but it is no scumtell from Muerrto (nor from Khelvaster)
3) Pretty much because the answers are no so the accusitions were (maybe not intended) reaction testers. I was looking to (positive) reactions. Giving a negative reaction might both kill the proces and again be a case of providing lines, both are not in the towns interest
4) I am now half way down the game (as you see). The rest is coming up as well.

[Hjallti]

This summary is just reading through and trying to pick out the important things, I think I read to slow and intense, I only got to page 5. The rest will be for tomorrow I'm afraid. Anyway I have something here so I post it anyway. blanks means nothing really note worthy

death_omen
(42) gives first suspecions with apparently a good reason that is no reason at all. (66) says that it was a reaction test, I am happy with that.
(around 96-97) I don't like this death_omen - muerrto fighting. I would feel it distancing. (temporary vote? like in: 'only for day 1' or 'only intill you're lynched'?)
(116-120) gives the same unsatisfying defensive feeling as before


DeathSauce


Hyphen-ated SeraphicMirth


Khelvaster
(45) Khelvaster claims scumbuddies based on 1 post early. If I would have thought they were I would have waited in stead of warning them. Two reasons to do it this way is: warning your both scumbuddies, or trying to make confuse town. Both are scummy. (I know spontenous reaction and reaction test are to others, which makes it weak scumtell)
(63) the answers you gave to this points are not really convincing
(99) I don't like plyers meta gaming thereselfs. That is really WIFOM.

Malchonn


Muerrto

as you know

your role

and if you're scum you know my role

This is only true if Muerto is scum, as scum don't know who is town and who is neutral
By the way as pointed out by others, this whole comment is useless, in any sense. It might be a nice comment in a newbie game, but here it shouldn't have been.
(89)"What other language has like 5 constanants in a row and can still pronounce the word? " 5 is easy I guess, unless you mean within 1 syllable, the best in dutch is 8: "a

ngstschr

eeuw" (scream of terror)
(around 96-97) I don't like this death_omen - muerrto fighting. I would feel it distancing.


Plessiez
(107) he is really investigating... I know you can WIFOM this but it is a towntell

somestrangeflea
(106) Don't know what to make from this but I find it strange (no pun intended):'death_omen appears to be the play ATM anyway...'

VampanezeHunter


vampyrusddg


WeyounsLastClone

[Hjallti]

as you know

your role

and if you're scum you know my role

This is only true if Muerto is scum, as scum don't know who is town and who is neutral

Um I know you said your english isn't great but read that again. I said YOU know YOUR role. As in HE knows HIS role. How's that make me scum? I think you misread that.

Bolded the wrong part, you shouldn't have typed 'my role'.

[Hjallti]

wouldnit 'death_omen' not be a great name for a smiley featuring a skull like on a pirates flag.

[Hjallti]

EBWOP (I am posting now, before readin SeraphicMirth's post to be sure I don't get influenced.

This summary is just reading through and trying to pick out the important things, I think I read to slow and intense, I only got to page 5, yesterday, I add from page 6.

death_omen
(42) gives first suspecions with apparently a good reason that is no reason at all. (66) says that it was a reaction test, I am happy with that.
(around 96-97) I don't like this death_omen - muerrto fighting. I would feel it distancing. (temporary vote? like in: 'only for day 1' or 'only intill you're lynched'?)
(116-120) gives the same unsatisfying defensive feeling as before
(144) 'Now i feeling a bit of scummy vibes from Khel, he is now asking how many people think i should be lynched out today. He basically wants a retake on the position. Him and his scummy mates are and what to do next, he also wants this day done with which he has hinted.' is major OMGUS on 143
(159) the emotional shouting 'I am town kill Khelvaster' is bad! And if he is town we should conclude Khelvaster is scum (perhaps scum

my

but not scum)

DeathSauce


Hyphen-ated SeraphicMirth


Khelvaster
(45) Khelvaster claims scumbuddies based on 1 post early. If I would have thought they were I would have waited in stead of warning them. Two reasons to do it this way is: warning your both scumbuddies, or trying to make confuse town. Both are scummy. (I know spontenous reaction and reaction test are to others, which makes it weak scumtell)
(63) the answers you gave to this points are not really convincing
(99) I don't like players meta gaming thereselfs. That is really WIFOM.
(141)

I still think Death Omen is the correct play for today.

I don't really like this sentense... 'ATM' rather than 'today' would have been better. Again Khelvaster is very 'certain' of his view. That is indeed a kind of tunnel-thinking that is hurting the town, another proof of what Plessiez noted in post (129), it remains the question whether or not it is a scumtell.
(143) 'Death Omen is using the old scum tactic of diverting attention. He figures that we might go lynch a player who isn't really in this game anymore than lynch him.' ... I miss the 'in my opinion' or the question mark... but again this could be playstyle rather than a scumtell
(156 and others) Do we know there will be only one NK this night? In the not newbie games I played here it was usually 2 first night... a mislynch, as Khelvaster proposes as risk could bring us to 3 scum/ 5town / 1neutr.
Maybe that gives us SK-tell from Khelvaster!


Malchonn


Muerrto

as you know your role and if you're scum you know

my role

This is only true if Muerto is scum, as scum don't know who is town and who is neutral, but this is not a scumtell, as people already added.
By the way as pointed out by others, this whole comment is useless, in any sense. It might be a nice comment in a newbie game, but here it shouldn't have been,

as a matter of fact, I do think afterwards that it might have been added intented to give us the impression that it is true, giving him a free ride when turns out scum, but it would only have worked if nobody jumped on it

.
(89)"What other language has like 5 constanants in a row and can still pronounce the word? " 5 is easy I guess, unless you mean within 1 syllable, the best in dutch is 8: "a

ngstschr

eeuw" (scream of terror)
(around 96-97) I don't like this death_omen - muerrto fighting. I would feel it distancing.


Plessiez
(107) he is really investigating... I know you can WIFOM this but it is a towntell
(131) is really a nice example of genuine investigation


somestrangeflea


VampanezeHunter


vampyrusddg


WeyounsLastClone



I do think a Khelvaster-death_omen combo is possible. If only one is scum which one? I'm inclined to say Khelvaster.

vote:Khelvaster

[Hjallti]

VampanezeHunter, why do you state this as fact rather than ask the direct question to death_omen (I want to know what happens if I type D ) _ ) O ) without the spaces: D)_)O) )

Khelvaster, have you ever lost games, or lead town in townlynch due to tunneling?

Death_Omen, What is your goal for this game as a townie? Is it trying to survive? Or trying to help town to a win? Do you know that you also win with town if you don't survive the game as a townie?

[Hjallti]

You say that you are totally convinced that he is scum then you say on post 151 that “IF HE IS TOWN”. You cant have it both ways Sir,

If he is town is called a contingency. If he had claimed cop, suddenly our loss for lynching him if he happens to be a really shitty player (like Battle Mage tends to be) would be much higher. Since he wasn't claiming, the mean expected return for the town was, in my mind, somwhere higher that 0 (This is an exact way of saying how scummy I felt D_O was.) Generally, a random d1 lynch would have a slightly negative return.

You didn't answer his remark but went around it. If you are sure he is scum, you can't consider the possibility he is not, so you are not sure, and shouldn't have claimed to be sure in the first place. Saying you are sure is leaving out the rest as worst case scenario.

My vote stands, but I will use the weekend to ponder over the latest discussion.

[Hjallti]

Much reading done, and I am more confused again.

Some observations, that will be all for now:
After the irritating death_omen Khelvaster exchange we get a irritating Khelvaster Muerrto exchange. (both exchanges could well be between townies)

Khelvaster keeps on tunneling (looking as through a tunnel only to a part of the picture rather than to the whole picture).

death_omen gets spoked and I am thinking of bad townie play under pressure. The cop claim was clearly very impulsive.

Muerrto still doesn't give me a bad feeling but is a gut feeling enough to say pro-town?

VampanezeHunter (I still don't know how to pronounce it, does it rhyme to Japanese?) is scummy but hasn't been pressured yet (neither in scrums between Khelvaster and opponents) I would chnage my vote now if he wasn't away. He asked not to lynch him before his return. That request is granted what me concerns.

Muerrto, Plessiez and Nelly seem to do the best hunts so far.

Leaves 5 people out of the picture, including me.

[Hjallti]

A pity Khel missed his role.

One NK could mean we have only scum no SK and no more Vig. It could also be that SK and scum produced only a single kill by either getting roleblocked, doc-ed or simply going after the same person (I guess the Mod wouldn't tell that).

Khel had his big quarrels with Muerrto and death_omen, and it was death_omens claim that Khel got killed. If we mislynch today, we might end up tomorrow with 3 or 4 town against 4 anti-town people.

If death_omen is scum with a false claim, he could be winning the game for scum right now.

[Hjallti]

mod[/b ]I would like to a

votecount

.

I am considering voting Nelly, and if this wasn't my last post before the weekend I would probably do it.

@Nelly, I won't restate the cases lined out, but consider you

HoS

sed by me as well.

[Hjallti]

vote: Nelly632

I can life with putting him on lynch minus 2

[Hjallti]

yeah you are right... could be dangerous:

unvote

, but I want a substantial reason for not voting monday (early morning your time)

[Hjallti]

Hjallti said:

vote: Nelly632 I can life with putting him on lynch minus 2

Please put a little more thought into your reason. A single one-line bandwagon vote doesn't look very good to me. You’re not instilling me with a true town nature.
FoS Hjallti

I did put thought in it. I think it is a bit scummy to represent that vote like this.
Before the vote I already explained that I am agreeing with the points against Nelly, but that I didn't take the trouble to spell it out. This is something totally different than saying that I didn't take the trouble to think myself. Afterwards I took Muerrto's advice to unvote, but I found it weird afterwards:

@Muerrto: Why do you ask me to unvote Nelly and didn't do it yourself? you could as well have put him back on L-3!

Questions for everyone:

I'd like to hear everyone's seperate opinion of the cop RC, the block claim, the hammer, and the hammer explanation. These are the 4 worst points in the game so far IMO and they're being brushed off so I'd like everyone to re-examine them and let me know what they say to you specifically and how much you think is true and how much a lie.

1. The RC is early and therefor could be counterclaimed, but it steals time in a little game like this. I think for WIFOM reasons it is just like most others things, something said that could be true or false.
2. The block-claim steals one day more. If he is scum he could have cleared a non-scum player to be town. In which case if the player is neutral he would know he is death_omen would be lying. But since that neutral might have benefit of being cleared at the time, this wouldn't have been a problem. the block claim is strange, but might be a gamble to get through the RC one day more. Then you offer a buddy, and next we know scum is in endgame.... could be dangerous. (note that I already hinted at that in post 357)
3. To fast, a scumtell because I want to see reactions during L-1 !
4. I feel bad about the hammer because Nelly himself explained it as: "if Khelvaster would roleclaim, it would be uncertain if it is true, by hammering we know its role". Well Nelly, the game is NOT about finding out everyones role as soon as possible in REAL TIME. It is about getting rid of scum as soon as possible in GAME TIME. If you think through your statement, it would be better to hammer one after the other as soon as possible, and then at the end we all know the roles. I prefer to win the game in December above loosing it and knowing how the game was in August.

[Hjallti]

Just sayiing I am still here! But I don't have anything to comment on appart from that Hjallti is right about finishing in December!

If people don't contribute the game slows down... I want to see more action from you.

death_omen comes over very shaky in those last posts. You can mistype a name once but so often?
Muerrto gives me town vibes, just as Plessiez and SeraphicMyth and somestrangeflea
VampanezeHunter, vampyrusddg should really try to get into the game. It is easy to say I am here but have no comment. Things are not moving if everyone does it that way.
Don't know what to think of Malchonn, certainly newbie trying to pretend more.
Nelly seems to do it the other way around if he is scum: asking newbies question and giving town vibes

[Hjallti]

I'm not quite sure how to do that but I wil try!

Neither am I... sometimes I really think, should I say something, but I think it is better for town if we even just say we are confused, and maybe why. Of course people my call it idiotic comments but mostly those are shouting at small things in large terms anyway.

[Hjallti]

and fos hijalti the "I'm confused" argument never sits well with me. I have seen countless scum in RL and online sit behind "I'm confused" and never saying a whole lot else of content.

I get FoSsed for saying that I prefer to read that someone is confused than having them lurking, I never said I preferred I'm confused to other content... Nice point.

[Hjallti]

No I believe it because he came up with the fail, I see no reason for scum to do that (...)

I see your point here but you can WIFOM that away of course. It might buy scum a day more somehow, but then again simpler scenarios would give the same or better return.

[Hjallti]

@Malchonn, I have really no time at this moment to spell things out. And this might be my only login in this week. My main reason to vote Nelly is in the first place that I have the impression that he not was able to defend satisfactiory against the attacks on him. More pressure might give us more information.

Hjallti 357-
[Quote="Hjallti"
If death_omen is scum with a false claim, he could be winning the game for scum right now.

If I go with scenario A. and he really is the Cop than you can look at this as an attempt to steer us. I am stretching a bit I know, wifom, but like I said in my last post I really have nothing solid.
[/quote]
I don't get your point here. Either death_omen is a cop, or he isn't. Since this is a mini winning a day is very important (as Muerrto already came up with, somewhere). I don't see why it is scummy to say this. I know it is pretty obvious, but I put there as a reminder.

[Hjallti]

real life issues make my comeback postpone to monday 3th

[Hjallti]

I agree with Aimee that it is a hell of a game to reread and I have to try to use my memory more in this game than in any other due to the lenght of the comment.

meanwhile I came up scum in another game where I played very actively so the small posts are no scumtells, but you can think of it whatever you want.

At this point I think VampanezeHunter played the most bizarre game. Nelly's playstyle is pretty frustated but I no longer think that is scummy.

I would like to get the real votecount (I guess VH is not selfvoting, but Aimee is the 3rd vote there?) and to do a new reread of the game, before voting.

[Hjallti]

@Aimee: could you specify which

actions

of me you find scummy? Thusfar you only thought I was scummy for the

lack of actions

, as I understand it. The only way for me to proof that is wrong (apart from again explaining that this is a hell of game to read, from my first two games I really thought playing 5 games a time was feasable, but with games like this I won't do that anymore), is to be more active and scumhunting, but rereading this game is not possible for me today, but I hope to do it in the near future.

I do think this is the right vote, so if someone would take away a vote VH still dies, at deadline.

vote: VampaneseHunter

****************************************************

9th Vote Count of Day 2


Nelly632 - 1 (somestrangeflea)

VampaneseHunter - 4 (SeraphicMirth, vampyrusddg, Aimee, Hjallti)

Aimee - 1 (death_omen)
Muerrto - 1 (Nelly632)


Not Voting - 3 (Karen, Muerrto, VampaneseHunter)

6 to Lynch before deadline, 3 at deadline

[Hjallti]

These are some thing my eye caught, I will normally have tomorrow the time to communicate what I think of it after thinking over this at night, and seeing the reactions.

@ death_omen

sees but doesn't explain a plessiez-malchonn (Aimee) connection: at least one of them is certainly scum. Why do you think this?

Hyphen-ated SeraphicMirth

great scumhunting towards VH
keeps cool when Nelly is pressured to avoid the hammer.

Malchonn Aimee

Aimee enters with great analysis. I don't understand the metagaming she does on me really. I admit I have been laid back much more in this game. This has some reasons next to RL, the large posts and contents, the fact there are much better scumhunters around, being much more careful after getting nightkilled for scumhunting all the time.... Anyway, I will try to get much more in the game from now

Muerrto

Goes far to get Nelly voted off. I think it was townlike to that from his perspective I like his posts, but that is a playstyle comment not a protown comment ofcourse.

Plessiez

first to really get a big analyse of the game
tries to get Nelly to play the game well when he feels Nelly plays bad-town. (503) I think protown

somestrangeflea

oneliners, not really a read of him

VampanezeHunter

strange inconsistent play
considering that VH is a prime suspect, this might be an interesting link:

EBWOP: Unvote Don't want to put nelly at L-1

afterwards he keeps this up (example 542) with some 'i will hammer if loads tell me to', which is strange since if loads want to see the hammer some of this loads won't have voted yet and could hammer themselfs. This might aswell be seen as a towntell from VH if Nelly is town himself, although you can WIFOM that argument away, but I don't see VH strong enough to make the WIFOM on this. On the other hand this argument is not a full proof of the equivalent statements

VH scum then Nelly scum

and

Nelly town then VH town

vampyrusddg

lurking, as scummy as I am (seeing (mafia 67) that some people miss this kind of comments, this is a joke)

WeyounsLastClone Nelly632

getting frustrated and even selfvoting because of suspicions
after 500 making absolutely no sense whatsoever, untill he decided to play again.

he reason for me saying I was Vanilla Townie was to get it out of the way since it is obvious alot of people in this game would like to know a persons role before lynching them.

It seems you still don't understand the whole RC argument. This a good, since it makes your speed hammer acceptable to me (as it is clear that the experienced players are convinced it was anti town to do so but you apparently thought it was pro town). but maybe you should try to understand why a RC is important

sometimes

, and not

always

as you seem to believe people do believe.
It is bad for town to loose a power role. If someone with a power role (let's say Doc, or Vig) is lynched the loss for town is much bigger. Noone asked you to roleclaim, but you seem to assume that they did. The point is that if you have a power role and you are about to lynched you should roleclaim, to give the town the chance to change their minds. Of course the RC will have to be tested.

Assuming I allowed Khelvaster to Role Claim before I Hammered him and he stated that he was simply a Townie. Which is exactly what he would have claimed if given a chance, he would not have claimed Vig. Would you be attacking me as much over my Hammer & if yes why?

No he simply wouldn't have claimed rather than claiming Vanilla, unless someone would have said: 'please claim' and he did it. He would have been hammered and nobody would have talked about the hammer

[Hjallti]

And if you notice in his (=Hj) latest post he also threw suspiscion on me. He seems to be following every single wagon so far and that bothers me.

I think it was townlike to that from his perspective I like his posts, but that is a playstyle comment not a protown comment ofcourse.

I guess this is another example of those small twists. I like that way of playing as well as a matter of fact. the only thing I have to do here is that I made NO comment whatsoever to indicated that Muerrto would be antitown. I just said that liking the way Muerrto is playing, is not really saying he is protown for this, which just means I don't want to call that a towntell. Saying I would have suggested it being a scumtell is twisting this. I just want to call it a neutral comment.

This is a hard game to play for a newbie. There is much content and people are accusing, getting accused and defending all along. I try to keep up with the discussions and sometimes I get convinced by arguments. If you want to see this a 'going' with the flow rather than giving new content, it is probably true. It isn't a scumtell however, Aimee keeps up saying I do more scumhunting when I am town. There are 4 games where my alignment is knows. 3 town and 1 scum. Well I did scumhunting in All 4. If you want to do metagaming Aimee, do it sincerely. Before my death in urban dead there was no proof whatsoever to my playstyle as scum. so you might claim to have done it sincerely.

[Hjallti]

It seems we are left with 5town (or 4town, 1neutr), 1SK and 1scum. Is that something we can use as a fact, or is it highly possible to have something else?

Last night the player i investigated was Hijati and it failed.

Maybe it failed because that player is not in this game

I just saw I had to answer Aimees questions, from the previous day. As far this is still interesting (I know it is frustrating when the answers can use hindsight, but I didn't see them before the twilight came, moreover she died).

1) What's your actual opinion of death_omen. I never saw what you commented about him, but do you think he is scum or town?
2) Are you happy with your vote on VampanezeHunter?
3) Similarly, do you find Nelly more likely to be scum or town

1. Hard call, but I suspect him. I hoped he would have made a real claim now, but it is still that same fuzzy thing. I find that hard to read.
I don't have enough experience, and I believe muerrto told this mod has the habit to use complicated roles, but I find it hard to get a logical explanation. Here are two attempts:
*** death_omen is scum, who hopes that an unlikely claim would make it more believable, this is some one level WIFOM-argument.
*** death_omen is really a cop, who gets roleblocked by someone.
In that case that person needs to have a very good reason to do so. I see two possibilities:
° the (a) remaining scum is a roleblocker.
° there is a lyncher who has deah_omens name, with roleblocking abilities (I don't know if that is possible at all but if so it fits this puzzle)
2. Yes, and that would have been my answer yesterday. Otherwise I would have taken it off.
3. I think Nelly is town, who got frustrated, I was not able to read through that frustration at first (that's why I found it scummy, but than he calmed down, and it all seems to make sense if you read it from a frustated-town perspective).

[Hjallti]

If i was a scum faking a cop claim. Don't you think I would be running circles around you guys with last nights "fake" investigation.

Could you explain this expression? (I do not understand it.)

Anyway, it seems to be always a WIFOM argument to say that this claim is not fake for any reason: you might show your claim is totally protown or not-scum, but in any case that very proof can be the reason why you are faking it.
To say it short: a protown claim can be a very got scum tactic.

I think SomeStrangeFlea could be right to say we shouldn't let the claim interfere. On the other hand, understanding what could have happened would be interesting, but than again; the mod is very much sure we won't get the picture before we get it from him.

How unlikely is a lyncher-role blocker - role?

[Hjallti]

I am aware of that. I am in fact very happy with complicated games. They are more fun. My question was really meant to be in-game. I think the role-blocker lyncher combination is a possible explaination for death_omen's failures, but I want to here other opinions about it. It is only one of three possible scenarios (d_o scum, scum roleblocker, lyncher-roleblocker), as far I can figure out, but it seems the most unlikely. That is why I asked it a bit negative.

[Hjallti]

EBWOP we are in a normal, sorry

I think should forget about the lyncher, then. We have a role-blocker-scum or a false-claiming scum, If I understand right.

[Hjallti]

That's not the only possibility...
Two alternatives are (apart from more fancy things like a bomb role, a role change or something else):

We can have a role blocker and a doc. If the doc protected right on either of the two kills we will see only one.

Mafia and SK can both have chosen to kill the deathSauce. Leaving him to be the only victim.

[Hjallti]

First of all, I thought the number of possibilities was limited by the mods reference to the normal rules. post 690.

So I don't understand this post:

Like I said, plain roles are not this mod's cup of tea so a plain cop would be strange. And being blocked night after night just means he never has to come up with an investigation. So the evidence is stacked against him to be sure.

From the fact the mod even linked to the Normal rules, I understand that we in fact have only normal roles. I would find it very misleading if he would point to these rules, but wouldn't have used them.

Muerrto, Could you elaborate why you still think we have not a normal cop?
Karen, I don't see your bomb theory coincide with these normal rules. Could you point out a normal game using a bomb, or so?

Muerrto,
Care to explain why this goes for you and not for me?

Aimee was the one who was claiming you were scum right?
(I am fairly sure she was but right now I am too lazy to pull up a new window simply for the purpose of confirming this)

Yes. Not to use WIFOM to try and prove my innocence but that means if I'm scum then Aimee called out BOTH her partners in one swoop since both her and VH were scum.

That'd be...interesting to say the least.

indeed interesting. The first real FoS on me came from Aimee (#621) and was metagaming. Although I didn't get the suspicion away, it is not really clear to me what was so scummy.

It is strange that vampyrusddg calls in distancing as a scumtell, in this context. Aimee clearly had a hidden agenda attacking me, but this would be more the case if I were town than scum (to be clear: I am just answering vampyrusddg accusition here, the WIFOM is his part not mine). Calling it distancing is WIFOM (calling it a towntell as well-of course).

Unvote

D_O, if you don't have any results tomorrow, you're a dead man.

death_omen claimed under pressure.

We are 2 days later and we still have no results.

@ death_omen

Has anyone noticed that Nelly has really slipped under the radar as suspicion has been cast of him. I dont really get what he did to get everyone of his case. So I'm gonna re-instate:

Unvote
Vote: Nelly632

Why do you start day 3 with letting Nelly slip under the radar? What was the reason for that late (useless?) vote, and why didn't you reinstate it day 3, even not as FoS?

[Hjallti]

@muerrto:

yet you're stating suspiscion of him (=vampdog) in this very post, so you're doing the same thing I was doing.

granted.

As for Hijati I think we need a role claim from you, there could not necessarily be a scum roleblocker but instead whenever I investigate scum it just comes back as a fail.

You shouldn't use statistics on to small data. Of course it is true what you say. But it is also true that

'whenever you investigated yourself you got scum as answer'

, and the step from that sentence to your conclusion is hardly more convincing than concluding from my sentence that you are scum.

Who is that Hijati-bloke who your talking of anyway?

@death_omen as well: Could you answer my question about voting Nelly632 at the end of the previous day? I would like to hear why you did it then and not did it again now.

This is my first mini and I had no clue he had to use set roles.

Without trying to outguess the mod we should get the logical possibilities straight I guess.

With the set rules we have:
Due to second NK

an SK

((Two mafia seems to me excluded from the fact they don't get different names. (Although it would make Aimee's busses a bit more transparent), Two Vigs would be strange))
Due to death_omens failures (I think in a normal the cop is sane?):
Either false claiming death_omen (is a surviver normal enough? if not he is scum or SK)
Or a roleblocker who is probably not a townie (is a lyncher possible with as lynchee death_omen=cop? if not we have a mafia roleblocker).

from this I get as two most likely setups (both 1SK, 1scum, 5 (town or neutral))

*1scum, 1SK (death_omen is one of them), 5 town (or neutral)
*1scum role blocker, 1SK, death_omen cop, 4town (or neutral)

This means a kind of C9, with more power roles, not 1 mafia but two anti-town players not playing together and 29 pages of content.

[Hjallti]

First off, no one would do an honest role-claim, unless the heat was on him, BECAUSE YOU GET KILLED AT NIGHT. His reasoning for not being killed is bad logic. If they knew he was cop, they'd just kill him.

This is also aweful logic. Why would they kill him if they can get him lynched. Everyone is getting at least annoyed with his unsuccesful investigations. scum can kill each night (if they are not roleblocked (e.g. doc)) but controlling the lynch is much harder. By roleblocking the cop they probably avoid the doc (who should protect the cop) and get a chance of killing another enemy (like the SK or the doc), meanwhile setting up a lynch of death_omen.


I will wait for answers of you before probably voting you. I was already still waiting to know if you still believe the bomb scenario, anyway.

MFoS:Karen

It would make Plessiez's game very skillfull, but then again even as town it was very good.

[Hjallti]

I don't want to whine between the hammer of day 3 and the beginning of day 4 there was less then 72 hours during the weekend. I am aware that the rules of this particular game say each absence of 48 hours should be noted and I forgot to rewrite in my signature that I don't play weekends, but in another game it was stated that nights during weekends last longer. Is it common that mods make such a short nights?

This explains why I didn't get a night choice in night 3. But I doubt I would have chosen death_omen, although I was really putting the mafia role blocker theory up front. Muerrto's implicit denial of that theory was a scumtell, in hindsight.

Great game muerrto!

[Hjallti]

Ah. Well, that's not my fault, now, is it? Wink

No it isn't I just wanted to explain why I didn't have a night choice... I didn't notify, and that is my mistake, and I guess we couldn't have predicted the hammer falling so fast.

[Hjallti]

By the way, thanks you all I enjoyed the game, although at some point the was this pile of huge posts which made following already hard, and then I get accused of not being in the game.... of course it was just putting pressure on me....

I think I was not up yet to this level of the game.

By the way, Muerrto you said somewhere you didn't think I was doc, but how can you see the difference between the roles. I mean I played less offensive because I was doc, I mean as vanilla I might have stuck out some more, but is that a power-role-tell. (Aimee called it a scumtell but then again she was scum).

[Hjallti]

death_omen as I told during the game I didn't actively lurk. It was just bad timing with real life, combined with the big posts. I don't see why you don't believe that afterwards knowing I was town. That I didn't get a nightchoice during the last night was because it was weekend. I looked with less that 72 hours in between, and Karen was not close to lynch when I left and it was already day 3 when I came back. That is not lurking that is called living!