Mini 461 "24" Game Over. Roll Credits

[Yosarian2]

Anyway, before the end of the hour, I'm going to send Jack out, as we discussed. Hopefully he'll find something.

[Guardian]

Kinetic, you can help it. Fight the feeling, because its leading you to vote a townie.

Still feeling good about Yos2 and FA as scum, I may or may not address Yos2's counterpoints to my counterpoints, depending on whether or not I feel like it .


I think we want people in all the agencies pretty soon, and take away 1 or 2 SIAs and Field Agents. I think the agencies are going to give us valuable intel to help us find terrorists.

[Yosarian2]

I think we want people in all the agencies pretty soon, and take away 1 or 2 SIAs and Field Agents. I think the agencies are going to give us valuable intel to help us find terrorists.

Well, we might, it mentiosn that in the mod post, but as far as I know nether of the agincey people we have got any extra intel from the FBI or the white house. Not really sure we want to bet on that changing.

Especally since, if we do want to find the bomb, the only roles we have that can actually do that as far as we know are the SIA's (who can listen in on terrorist groups) and the field agents (that can check out locations). Some of the agencies have some abilites that sound useful if we manage to capture a terrorist though.

[UltimaAvalon]

In regards to the argument at hand, I agree with sme of the things Guardian says, and some of the things Yos says.

I disagree with a lot of Guardian's plans, particularly the removal of SIAs and Cryptos. Taking away SIAs is a bad idea. Agencies take hours to do anything, so they'll have only be able to complete about 4 or 5 actions throughout the entire game, while SIAs have been receiving stuff every hour on the hour. We SIAs can monitor Terrorists as well as players. Your idea to monitor the Deputy isn't that great an idea, because it only monitors signals between the player and mod. There's more than one scum, so it doesn't have to be the deputy that sends the kill orders or other scum things to mod, especially if he knows he's being watched.

Yes, the hacking of Yos's computer is a convenient excuse if he's scum, but I don't see a way to prove whether it really has been hacked one way or the other, and I'm willing to take Yos's word for it. Most of Yos's ideas are sound and helpful to town. One reason I believe it was truly hacked is he didn't just say "Oh gee, my computer was hacked, look at all the bad stuff happening." He first warned us that an attempted hack took place. This alerted us to the problem, and gave monitoring roles time to act before anything bad happened. IF he was scum, or if the hack really idn't happen, I don't think he would've done this.

One way I do agree with Guardian is his "Don't lynch for the sake of lynching" argument. We should only lynch to kill scum, not because we feel pressured to lynch someone.

[Kinetic]

Lynching is never done for the sake of lynching. Each death brings us closer to something, whether it is one less scum or one less prospected scum. I agree, lynching an innocent is not what we want to do, but being completely scared of lynching an innocent on mistake that it causes us to take no action is better for the scum.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I agree. We must lynch every hour.

[Yosarian2]

Right. If we actually use all 7 lynches, the odds of us getting all 3 scum are quite good. The bandwagons provide info, and just the number of possibilities drops.

[UltimaAvalon]

Um....Is it just me, or have Albert's last three or four posts just given off really weird....vibes?

What was that Salam Alayku business? And what makes you think we can lynch every hour? (Cus...guess what. We can't.)

[Albert B. Rampage]

Every hour that we can lynch, we should lynch.

[Yosarian2]

Um....Is it just me, or have Albert's last three or four posts just given off really weird....vibes?

What was that Salam Alayku business? And what makes you think we can lynch every hour? (Cus...guess what. We can't.)

Yeah, he's been rather wierd for a while now, starting with the whole "CTD was obv investigating yos...how dare you ask me how I know that, stop fishing...no that was just to get a reaction" thing.

[Guardian]

check the first page -- I just started an investigation -- anyone else in new roles should do stuff, too.

I am getting cold feet about Yos2.... but the hacking thing sits horribly with me. I just don't know...

I still feel good about FA. What do you all think?

[Yosarian2]

Guaridan, like I said a few pages ago, I already sent in the order to change things back to the way they were before I was hacked, except that eyeking is now going to be a third field agent. So you're going to go back to being deputy once hour 5 is over (which I think is overdue, actually).

[Guardian]

If that is the case, then I did no harm by starting something, right?

And if you get "hacked" and we're not switched back, then better safe than sorry, right?

[Yosarian2]

If that is the case, then I did no harm by starting something, right?

No, no harm. You might as well, I suppose. Just letting you know.

[Guardian]

Yeah, I thought that you'd said you'd switched back. Thoughts on FA, yos? Thoughts on anyone else as scum besides me?

[Yosarian2]

Well, I don't really have much of a read on him yet. Looking back at his posts, he's been kind of quiet; not actually a lurker, and he's been contributing some content, but he hasn't done much in the way of scumhunting.

FA, who do you think is looking suspicious, and why?

[Kinetic]

Yos: Hour 5 was extended 96 hours for me to catch up and because the mod is at Thespival. The hour will end at 1:30 AM tomorrow, so we'll know everything then. I'm actually VERY interested in knowing if the investigations actually finished... Theoretically the investigators don't need to be in their positions at the beginning of hour 5 since the investigations start at hour 1, end at the end of hour 4 with the results being delivered at the beginning of hour 5. But the player doesn't need to be there to continue the investigation during hour 5 since they could start a new one during that hour and the previous investigation doesn't actually do anything during the 5th hour. Since they were pulled off their jobs at the END of the forth hour, shouldn't the investigations finish and they are pulled off their jobs simultaneously at the end of hour 4?

[UltimaAvalon]

I believe mod said that they were not completed, but not sure. Let me go look

[CrashTextDummie]

Since they were pulled off their jobs at the END of the forth hour, shouldn't the investigations finish and they are pulled off their jobs simultaneously at the end of hour 4?

I didn't get a result, and neither did Guardian, as far as I know (although I don't think he has officially confirmed this as of yet).

There's something I think we should discuss:
So far, we've been going for the "lynch all scum" win condition, while pretty much neglecting the "find the bomb" win condition. It appears that the scum have decided to do just the opposite:
It's pretty obvious to me that the scum have yielded their nightkill in order to hack Yos' computer, and they did it not to tip the town/scum ratio in their favor, but to hurt Jack while simultaneously obstructing our scum hunting efforts. This heavily implies that they are not trying to get a majority, but to win the game by killing Jack/keeping us from finding the bomb.

And I currently don't see a reason why they shouldn't be able to pull this stunt (or a similar one) again - it makes only sense from a game design point of view to give the scum the power to pursue both win conditions just like we have.

Therefore, I think there are 2 questions we have to consider:
1. Should we stop concentrating on just one win condition, and start putting resources towards keeping Jack safe and helping him find the bomb in addition to scum hunting?

I personally think the answer is yes. So far, we're down one townie and have gathered zero useful cop info as far as I'm aware. Considering we're already 1 quarter into the game, that's pretty bad. And we're at least another 5 hours away from getting anything in that regard, and only if (and it's a big if) the scum don't fuck us over again.

On the other hand, the scum have already hurt Jack, and just blindly sending him out to arbitrary places is bound to do more harm than good in my opinion.

2. Is there any way we can stop another hacking attempt, or other unforseen scum shenanigans?

We have tools to stop nightkills, and battle the scum on the traditional win condition. Do we have tools to mess with them on the other front as well? I'm only really familiar with my own role (or rather my ex- and soon to be again role), so I trust each one of you to know this better than I do. If you have suggestions on that front, speak up please.

As far as lynching is concerned, I could go for either Spambot or FA at this point. I'm leaning towards town for Guardian.

NOTE: I will be leaving for a 2-week vacation on Saturday, and I probably won't have access during that time. Considering the stringent (*cough*) deadlines in this game, replacing me seems inevitable. I'll be around until then, but the mod should probably start looking for a replacement.

[Eyceking]

Eyceking, despite everything else though, feels very scummy to me. I don't have any direct evidence right now, since I wasn't looking for it, it is just more of a general feel.

What do you mean despite everything else? You mean that while I appear pro-town for the large part, I also appear scummy? I guess I'll just keep playing the same way then until you bring some evidence up for me to refute wholeheartedly.

OK, so, hmm... I did put in an action for this hour, but I guess it won't mean anything because I'm getting switched to Field Agent - to protect, I assume? Only problem there is what's the point in protecting someone if they're just going to get switched out of their job again and leave us with no information. The scum then don't need to bother going through Field Agents (who are generally put there because they seem scummier than most, and thus useful for the scum to shield behind) and still manage to leave the town impotent and full of people of unknown allegiance.

So while I don't mind doing the job, I think we need to (as CTD has already mentioned) discover a way to protect the Director's computer from being hacked again in order to make the Field Agents job worthwhile and actually useful.

[Kinetic]

Eyceking, despite everything else though, feels very scummy to me. I don't have any direct evidence right now, since I wasn't looking for it, it is just more of a general feel.

What do you mean despite everything else? You mean that while I appear pro-town for the large part, I also appear scummy? I guess I'll just keep playing the same way then until you bring some evidence up for me to refute wholeheartedly.

Actually, the despite everything else comment was meant more along the lines of, despite all the other seemingly scummy players and plays that I have read, you seemed to stand out.

I don't have any direct evidence because the opinion arrived after I re-read and stood back and looked at the players. I just had this odd feeling about you. I'm sure I can link the feeling to a more tangible display of evidence, but even then I am sure it would be a flimsy case at best. I tend to trust my gut on things like this, mainly because of a book I read called

Blink

. But basically the concept behind it is that the brain evaluates and processes information so fast that the conscious mind cannot keep up. These evaluations can be exceedingly accurate, or misguided depending on the situation.

That is why I stated it was more of a general feeling and not conclusive proof. I could very well be wrong, and I don't have a strong feeling that you are town or scum, but I am leaning toward one direction. I'll need more time to go over your posts and play before I can make a certain judgment, much like I went over Guardian's play. I am rather convinced that Guardian is hiding something, and his play seems to suggest that something is anti-town. With the lack of town power roles, it makes it easier to track down that if someone is hiding some sort of information that other players don't have, they can more certainly be considered scum. I have a similar feeling from you, but it isn't as strong, and I don't want you to take this the wrong way.

Anyway, refute away if you wish, but your hope to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that my gut instinct is baseless is complete hogwash. I am not the only one who feels that there is something behind your posts, as evidence from how other players seem to be keeping an eye out for you. You attempts to just 'brush this away' are akin to trying to just sweep your hand and dismiss the ocean, and won't dissuade me from pursuing this line of thought to its conclusion.

In other events, Albert, are you drunk?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

0500 Washington Time

CNN Headline News

A group of militants estimated to be numbering over three hundred has stormed and taken control of David Ben Gurion University of the Negev. Israeli security forces have since surrounded the university grounds but over 6,000 hostages are estimated to be trapped in the central dormitories where the terrorist forces have holed up since. No word has yet been revealed about the terrorist's demands or identities but we will keep you posted on the latest.

Latest Votecount

2 Guardian (Yosarian, Kinetic)
2 Frozen Atlantic (OffTheMark, Guardian)
1 Spambot (CTD)
1 OffTheMark (Xdaamno)
1 Yosarian2 (Albert)

Positions have been changed, check the first post for details.

[Off the Mark]

Can we put an SIA on Hizbollah? They are usually the most involved in anti-Israeli action. Eyce, I wish you would have sent in a request to investigate a D.C. site during hour 5 instead of doing nothing. Let's go people. Try to do something useful every hour, and if you're not sure what to do, post in thread or ask Yos privately.

[Guardian]

I hide nothing.

I got no result CTD ;P.

Still want to hear from FA.

mod

would any 4 hour actions starting hour 1 have finished? ie, eyceking speeding up the fbi? Also update the first post so Kinetic is there.

[Off the Mark]

I did not get any results from my investigation of the White House yet. Waiting for a PM from Pooky.