Mini 413 - Famous CATS - Over! Quit pussyfooting around!

[Nai]

I don't know what that's in reference to. And answer my questions.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Day 1 Fake Mason Claim is equivalent to the Day 1 Fakeclaim Zindaras pulled with CC because he TIED HIS LIFE TO THAT OF A PLAYER UNDER ATTACK ON DAY ONE. The reason I used the fact that people don't fakeclaim mason is because the 1 player 2 roles thing is a lot more rare and thus much less usable to a mafia group, they don't have the option to fakeclaim with an alt because most games don't have alts. However it is an equivalent action to fakeclaiming masons because you are putting another mafia "life" on the line to save one mafia "life" that doesn't happen because it will most definitely come back to bite you in the butt be it when the possible cop investigates or if the possible SK kills or if the town just wonders why you're alive at lynch or lose. The reason that

Fake claiming Masons on Day 1 is a valid strategy

is relevant to the game is because if it's not a good move to do that, then it's also not a good move to do what Zind/CC did if they were scum because the action is in effect the same thing. That is why I am saying that such an discussion is in every way relevant to this game.

No it is entirely not valid to assume anything on one setup based on some other setup, it's much more important to look at how the player has played. Can Zindaras expect CC and him to survive to the endgame without being investigated if he claimed on Day 1? If the answer is NO, then why would he decide to out himself and tie himself to CC? If you can show me a previous game with a "scum alt" where the scum puppeteer outted himself to claim that he was a mason with his alt on day one, then I will definitely withdraw my argument along these lines and concede that you are correct and that such a move is definitely a valid scum strategy. But until you can produce such a game or even tell me why such a move would make sense when it is entirely unreasonable to expect that CC/Zind would survive to endgame untouched by Cop or possible SK or the town I must humbly disagree with you on this point.

Why would town Glork have to breadcrumb? How does a breadcrumb make his role more or less likely if the scum message sender could have come up with the same idea and also breadcrumbed? You don't WANT people to pick up on something like that, that is the whole purpose of a breadcrumb, that people don't recognize its significance but you can go back later and point out that it actually meant something. I.E. that the first letters of each sentence spelled out "Cop". That is the whole point of breadcrumbing.

No it does mean it hurts us, just because a standard mini is 12 players and we have 13 that doesn't mean losing a protown role to go down to 12 does not hurt the town, if the 13 player game is balanced, there are powers added to scum to balance out the fact town is larger than usual. Losing a protown player absolutely does hurt the town no matter how much of an advantage the town has. It doesn't matter if the town starts with 19 players or even 30, lynching a protown player will absolutely hurt the town unless it gurantees beyond a shadow of a doubt that the scum will lose.

[Nai]

You must not remember you r read, so I would go back and read again. He only claimed because he was CAUGHT. Zindaras and Carbon Copy were distancing themselves for a good amount of time before Glork linked them together. Zindaras was forced to claim, after basically saying there was no link between the two.

A breadcrumb can't be useful if there's no way someone could have picked it up. That's what I'm saying. If it's something like you say, first letter of three sentences in a single post, that's really no big deal. There's no way anyone would have noticed it, so it's no different then pointing at a random post and saying that something in it was a breadcrumb. But if you have something that COULD have been picked up, then people realize you WERE breadcrumbing.

Again, it's WIFOM (which I already said). It can be done equally by town with a bastard role and scum trying to fake a role. I'm more inclined to believe the former.

And, again, like I keep on saying, several players have already (go look for the links, I'm too lazy right now, I'm tired of having to rehash this argument repeatedly with no effect) given links to games where Zindaras' role was given to a scum player, so they controlled TWO scum. Chance was against him being town. If the role has a history of being scum, why waste a cop investigation when A.) The player was already trying to distance the two roles and got caught, B.) (iirc) The player lied and was caught in it, C.) The role is usually a scum role and, D.) Killing one COULD potentially 'net you scum on day 1, which would give 2 scum on day 2.

It's a calculated risk with odds on your side. If you're saying we shouldn't take those risks, you are playing the wrong game.

[Carbon Copy]

I will fit in a re-read of this game in the coming week.

[Nai]

Yeah, can you hurry, please? This game is going VERY slowly, and it shouldn't be.

[Skruffs]

I am backand still alive - what did i miss?

[Skruffs]

Zexactly. That's where I hang. If Glork's claim is true, when we've had 5 investigations in 3 days! That's nearly half the players. And who knows if there are other investigative gifts to be passed on later in the game?!?

The way you phrase yourself here is that investigations are scary and need to be stopped.

[Skruffs]

Lastly - why would scum answer the three questions at all?

[Nai]

DGB is actually saying that the game set-up makes no sense whatsoever, and that it means insta-win for the town.

However, as usual, she's not taking into account what actually happens. My investigation is heavily drawbacked. There's a high chance I'll not be able to use it again, depending on how intelligent the players are. Miztef's came from another player being killed, which is NOT a guaranteed happening. Miztef's was a one-shot. Glork's relies on asking the question and, as Skruff pointed out (that I didn't realize) them actually answering.

So we're talking roles that needn't actually ever work.

[Skruffs]

Maybe glork can answer that.

[Glork]

My role doesn't say anything about the target not answering the question. I would assume that I get the alignment anyway. I suppose I could double-check this with the mod.


In the meantime, I have a question for you, Skruffs: Why mention "not answering my questions" as a possible way of scum getting out of an investigation? If that's not the case, you've done absolutely nothing. And if it *is* the case, you've helped scum avoid my investigations. Proposing such an out for scums seems to serve

no

purpose for the town, yet it provides an obvious suggestion for the scums.

FoS: Skruffs

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

It makes sense if he thinks it's possible you could be lying through your teeth about your role

[Glork]

Er... what exactly do you mean by that, Pooks? If he thinks I'm lying about my role, then he'd offer an explanation as to why I'm even weaker than a normal cop?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

He'd be questioning something that he doesn't think makes sense about your role because he might think in the back of his mind that you are lying through his teeth.

Why his vote is still on me I don't know

[Nai]

Possibly because he thinks you are scum. Isn't that what votes are for?

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

I meant that if he still had doubts as to whether Glork is lying about his role, it wouldn't make sense for him to have his vote on me until such doubts are resolved. If he doesn't have doubts and questions for Glork, then his question makes no sense, if he does have doubts/questions, it makes no sense for him to put his vote on me until Glork resolves those questions/doubts as we are not in a deadline situation.

Did you honestly think I don't know what votes are for Nai?

[Nai]

You were the one that asked.

Why does a question about how a role works, a valid question, mean that he thinks the role is invalid? It's a very good technical question.

You REALLY like trying to put words on other people's mouths, don't you? If only you were as good as keeping your foot out of your own.

[Skruffs]

Glork - you shouldn't be fossing me for pointing out things about your role that you should have already realized.. probably on day one.
I had a role in scumchat, once, where if someone answered a yes/no question with Yes, I would get an investigation on them. I'm just curious as to - since there's no indication that anyone would be punished for Not answering your questions (answer them or be vigged, for example) why pookiescum WOULD answer them, and so nicely, too, it turns out. If scum didn't answer, you wouldn't be able to even prove that they were your targets. And this is all something that I would probably have discussed with my scum buddies at night, the night you targetted me, if I was scum.

My vote is still on Pookie because I have a bit more faith in a cop that cleared me - even if he is continually breaking down his own investigations by stressing that there coudl be a godfather - than I do in a role that strikes me a whole lot as 'mafia spy' or 'doppelganger sk'. Pookie's claim was that he replaces someone after they go down. Cartoon spinoff, again, is what that brings to mind. Look at pretty much ANY pop culture sensation. They all get cartoons, after a while. Anyways. That in itself isn't a real reason.

Pooks, you could have replaced Zindaras n1 and been masons with Carbon copy this whole time. Which means there could have been even more masons in this game.
Oh well.

I wish Glork had at least claimed a result on the only claimed killing role in the game.

Looking at the vote cuonts doesn't seem to help. Glork, DGB, and Theo were on both lynches,

[Nai]

Apologies about the bad timing of this, but I'm going to be gone the next three days. I don't know if I'll have comp access.

[Skruffs]

Hrm.
Hrrrmmmm.
hm.
Hrmmmm.

Theo - how sure are you that Mistef and Glork are both either town or scum?

Side note - I missed the part you said about DGB possibly being Bertrand's alt.
As far as I am aware, DGB is Bertrand's sister in the real world, and they share a computer.
But this being bastard mod and all, it would not surprise me if DGB is actually Bertrand, or at least knows stuff we don't and whatnot.


Theo claimed to have vigged Primate - who was not actually vigged. No counterclaim.
I targetted Phoebus who did die - nobody else has claimed to. ( But I have no idea if I vigged or not)
Mistef has claimed a one-shot vig on Thesp - and hasn't been counterclaimed.

How many vigs do you guys suppose are in this game?

[Glork]

V/LA

[theopor_COD]

Sorry for my inactivity, I've had broadband problems, got a dial-up sorted now but it feels like 1998 again!

Skruffs - I don't feel convinced by them, I still think Miztef could have used his investigation on someone else but its been done.

I'm pretty much seeing a DGB/Pooky alliance - which if they're both scum is baffling as they've been so agreeable, scum surely wouldn't associate that closely would they?

Glork and Miztef worry me if Pooky is town obviously and I'll be vigging Glork if Pooky gets lynched as green, however I'd still rather see Goofball hit the noose. Need a re-read though.

[DrippingGoofball]

Side note - I missed the part you said about DGB possibly being Bertrand's alt.
As far as I am aware, DGB is Bertrand's sister in the real world, and they share a computer.
But this being bastard mod and all, it would not surprise me if DGB is actually Bertrand, or at least knows stuff we don't and whatnot.

Z'I'm bertrand's MOTHER and I am too old to cheat, and I have no knowledge of the game's modding. I don't even ask.

Theo - stop clamoring to hang me. Unless you're scum, in which case it's expected of you.

You should pay attention to Pooky. He's telling the truth - and it's so obviously the truth, it's hard for me to explain the resistance to it, other than scum doesn't like the truth.

As certain as I am that Glork/Nai are scum, I really doubt that Miztef is in on it. I think the more likely explanation is that Glork is the Godfather, and we're really scr*wed.

[Skruffs]

Sorry DGB! I didn't do the research.
Well
If it *is* Glork and Nai scum group vs DGB + Pookie scum group, it's better to lynch someone from the group who would win tomorrow if we mislynch today.

[Carbon Copy]

Hi. I have a problem. This problem consists of the following: some guy decided to attack me in one of my games (Glork, you might like it, it's the very last installment of PK vs Zindaras, and it's like a Tolkien novel). It's hell to respond to it. Therefore, I haven't gotten around to rereading this thread at all.

I am also going to my grandmother's from Thursday through Sunday (will be back Sunday afternoon) and will afterwards go on a vacation from 23 through 30 July.

Yeah, this looks like I'm going to request replacement, right? But, no. I've noticed this nice little button at the top of the thread which gives me a printer friendly version. I will print the thread and take it with me to my grandmother's, where I will have a nice and relaxed time reading it. I will post my findings when I come back on Sunday. I will then be unavailable for response for a week, but I'll be back up to date very quickly when I come back.

That's my solution. If bertrand accepts it, I will do it that way. I think I need to apologize again for being an absolute asswad.