Mini 466 - Game Over

[Jester]

I'm now convinced that klopyrev is the Jester role.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Jester

Ironic accusation, coming from me and given my nick, but hey, there it is. Long post from me tomorrow.

[Sir Tornado]

A Jester? In a normal Mini?

I feel that is quite improbable. I don't think mods usually put roles like Jesters in a normal game. In fact, I have never seen a Jester put into a normal game (in the games I have read here that is). The only games I have seen it is in Open Games (Jester Mafia).

However, if klopyrev is a Jester, it would do well for the vig (I am assuming we have a vig) to get him on N1. We need to have some discussion before this though. I just think that there wouldn't be a Jester in a normal mini. For the moment, I have my money on him being either a very crazy mafia or a misguided townie, leaning a bit towards townie.

[klopyrev]

Lol... Nice guess, but no, I'm not a Jester. If I was a Jester, I would have caused greater havoc a long time ago.

[klopyrev]

Man, the Jester role looks like a lot of fun, though.

[MightyFireball]

Indeed it does. I concur that it's very unlikely that there is one in this game and that Klopyrev is more likely to be a newbie townie than a newbie Mafia member or a mafia member pretending to be a newbie. I really like his real name though. It's very Russian.

[AmeliaLi]

Vote: Klopyrev

Note: I'm going to be camping in the middle of nowhere this weekend (leaving thrusday) So no comp for me.

[ryan]

As much as Klopy is annoying the crap outta me right now I just metagamed and found this game he was in


viewtopic.php?t=5563&postdays=0&postorder=asc&&start=0


He does the SAME stuff he does in this game in that game, so I'm no sure what to make of him. I do know he's annoying me BUT I don't want him lynched if he's a townie. I'm just gonna do a safe

unvote

Till I can figure out exactly HOW he's playing

[Numenorean7]

I'm now convinced that klopyrev is the Jester role.

That is not possible:[quote="The Wiki article "Normal Game""]A normal game does not have to have any other roles other than Mafia and Townies. If it includes other roles, they should mostly be considered standard, such as Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Traitor, Serial Killer.[/quote]Jester is definitely not a normal role. It is only used in open setup games. It just wouldn't be fair to the town otherwise.

I just metagamed and found this game he was in

That game has already been mentioned. ST linked to it in post 276, and I mentioned it in 285. I actually thought klopyrev looked rather newbie-town in that game: I'm not sure why they lynched him. Here are his posts:

Hello, everyone!!! I'm ready to play my first game:P Since I don't want to be labeled as mafia, I'm not going to do a random vote first. Someone else start. Make sure that random vote isn't me, though.

Random.org says:

66 87 57 31 64
47 25 63 20 86
19 96 28 16 43
75 3 79 58 41
68 21 42 1 82

Can I vote for myself??? Hmm... nobody voted for ThaiBoxerShorts
yet... So:

vote ThaiBoxerShorts

I'm sorry. I'm just enjoying messing everyone up. I'll be more helpful from now on. And like you said, we're not even off the first page yet. We have no idea who is Mafia and who is Town. I'm just doing random things, because I have nothing else to say. Does that take care of your accusation, EmpTyger? As for Nerdling's: Who says I'm nervous?

Hmm... How about we analyze EmpTyger's behaviour? If he is Town, he has been trying to catch who he thinks it scum since the beginning of the game. Since he thinks its me, he's been blaming me for a while now. However, even after I tried to explain myself, he's still trying to refute everything I say. This makes me think that he's a Scum. If he's scum, then as soon as he saw me as a target, he latched on and has tried to get me lynched as soon as possible. This really makes me think that he's scum.

FoS EmpTyger

My first two posts were as random as I tried to make them, because I was bored. And since I already read other games and they had people using random.org to make their first votes, I just decided to generate a list of numbers for people to use:P. Anyway, my FoS for EmpTyger is not a vote because I still think that he may actually be town, because some of his arguments make sense. I don't remember why I voted for TBS in the first place. As for my actual vote:

Unvote

WIFOM stands for Wine In Front of Me. Go to the MafiaScum forums and read about it. I just had the same question answered in another game I'm playing.
Anyway, can someone put me of -1? I don't want the town to lose a player so early in the game. You're blaming me only for my random comments.

Hmm... following a line of thought: I'm at -1. If there was a mafia left, they would have killed me already. Therefore, isn't it possible that both mafia are already voting for me? EmpTyger still has my FoS, but I'll put my vote on Nerdling.

Vote Nerdling

I get a distinctly different flavor from his posts in 403 (especially his last four) than I get from his behavior this game. Sure, there isn't much to go on, but he demonstrated some good thinking regarding EmpTyger, and he didn't do anything that scummy. Also notice that he never self-voted, just asked if he could. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have voted for klopyrev in 403. Yes, hindsight is 20-20, but I just don't find anything scummy in his play. Transmission was very wrong to hammer.

IMO, klop has been acting like newbie-scum in this game, and he didn't in that game.

[klopyrev]

You're right, there aren't many posts from the previous game for you to go on. As for this game, can you do the same thing as you did for my previous game by posting all my important posts? After you do that, tell me something that you think makes me seem distinctly newbie mafia. I would love to refute it.

[Numenorean7]

Your behavior regarding AmelaiLi in particular seems like newbie Mafia. I know you've already "addressed" this issue, but there are a couple other points I brought up in my post 317. If you're looking for something to refute, that would be a good place to start. I am willing to be convinced.

[klopyrev]

Wow... A reply at this time... I wonder where you live. Its 5am here. Anyway, I just finished reading my previous game - 403, that is - and with knowledge of who is mafia and who wasn't, it was a very interesting experience. ZeekLT, the first mafia, struck me as a mafia right away, but I seemed to have missed it during the game. kilmenator, the other mafia, on the other hand, struck me as the most town player there was in the game. When I think about it, he reminds me of ryan, thus my first accusation of ryan. I think I'm going to reread all the posts in this game and finally analyze this game. I've been too lazy all this time. Well, I'm not going to do that now, but I will do it after I get some sleep. I haven't actually slept tonight.

[klopyrev]

Also, it's funny that kilmenator actually vote for ZeekLT in that game.

[klopyrev]

voted* (DAMN)

[Sir Tornado]

Vote: Klopyrev

Note: I'm going to be camping in the middle of nowhere this weekend (leaving thrusday) So no comp for me.

I find this a bit suspicious. You put a vote on someone and then leave for a short vacation? It essentially means that your vote stays on that person for a fair bit of time. If the person does get lynched in the ensuing period, you can claim that you weren't there and not responsible.

[Sir Tornado]

Lol... Nice guess, but no, I'm not a Jester. If I was a Jester, I would have caused greater havoc a long time ago.

ROFL!

I'm now convinced that klopyrev is the Jester role.

That is not possible:[quote="The Wiki article "Normal Game""]A normal game does not have to have any other roles other than Mafia and Townies. If it includes other roles, they should mostly be considered standard, such as Cop, Doctor, Vigilante, Roleblocker, Mason, Traitor, Serial Killer.

Jester is definitely not a normal role. It is only used in open setup games. It just wouldn't be fair to the town otherwise.[/quote]

QFT

I just metagamed and found this game he was in

That game has already been mentioned. ST linked to it in post 276, and I mentioned it in 285. I actually thought klopyrev looked rather newbie-town in that game: I'm not sure why they lynched him. Here are his posts:

Hello, everyone!!! I'm ready to play my first game:P Since I don't want to be labeled as mafia, I'm not going to do a random vote first. Someone else start. Make sure that random vote isn't me, though.

Random.org says:

66 87 57 31 64
47 25 63 20 86
19 96 28 16 43
75 3 79 58 41
68 21 42 1 82

Can I vote for myself??? Hmm... nobody voted for ThaiBoxerShorts
yet... So:

vote ThaiBoxerShorts

I'm sorry. I'm just enjoying messing everyone up. I'll be more helpful from now on. And like you said, we're not even off the first page yet. We have no idea who is Mafia and who is Town. I'm just doing random things, because I have nothing else to say. Does that take care of your accusation, EmpTyger? As for Nerdling's: Who says I'm nervous?

Hmm... How about we analyze EmpTyger's behaviour? If he is Town, he has been trying to catch who he thinks it scum since the beginning of the game. Since he thinks its me, he's been blaming me for a while now. However, even after I tried to explain myself, he's still trying to refute everything I say. This makes me think that he's a Scum. If he's scum, then as soon as he saw me as a target, he latched on and has tried to get me lynched as soon as possible. This really makes me think that he's scum.

FoS EmpTyger

My first two posts were as random as I tried to make them, because I was bored. And since I already read other games and they had people using random.org to make their first votes, I just decided to generate a list of numbers for people to use:P. Anyway, my FoS for EmpTyger is not a vote because I still think that he may actually be town, because some of his arguments make sense. I don't remember why I voted for TBS in the first place. As for my actual vote:

Unvote

WIFOM stands for Wine In Front of Me. Go to the MafiaScum forums and read about it. I just had the same question answered in another game I'm playing.
Anyway, can someone put me of -1? I don't want the town to lose a player so early in the game. You're blaming me only for my random comments.

Hmm... following a line of thought: I'm at -1. If there was a mafia left, they would have killed me already. Therefore, isn't it possible that both mafia are already voting for me? EmpTyger still has my FoS, but I'll put my vote on Nerdling.

Vote Nerdling

I get a distinctly different flavor from his posts in 403 (especially his last four) than I get from his behavior this game. Sure, there isn't much to go on, but he demonstrated some good thinking regarding EmpTyger, and he didn't do anything that scummy. Also notice that he never self-voted, just asked if he could. I'm pretty certain I wouldn't have voted for klopyrev in 403. Yes, hindsight is 20-20, but I just don't find anything scummy in his play. Transmission was very wrong to hammer.

IMO, klop has been acting like newbie-scum in this game, and he didn't in that game.

Reading from an outsiders POV, I couldn't stop laughing as I read that. Totally hilarious.

However, if you notice that Klopyrev's style has changed a bit even in this game. Early in the game he appeared totally random and rather confused. Now... well, he still appears totally random and rather confused but less so. And, he has made one or two correct points. I take it as a sign of gaining a bit of experience?

Also, I feel we are being a bit rude towards him...

I also seriously suspect him being an alt of someone who is trying a new style of play... but no evidence there.

[klopyrev]

Vote: Klopyrev

Note: I'm going to be camping in the middle of nowhere this weekend (leaving thrusday) So no comp for me.

I find this a bit suspicious. You put a vote on someone and then leave for a short vacation? It essentially means that your vote stays on that person for a fair bit of time. If the person does get lynched in the ensuing period, you can claim that you weren't there and not responsible.

I've already done that in this game! Its funny that I did that with AmeliaLi, too. It could be some sort of payback, but you are right... It is suspicious to some degree.

[ryan]

The thing I still don't understand is why you'd ask if you could vote yourself in that game AND in this game? Do you still not see why that is an anti town move? (along with a stupid one?) You might be a new townie but WOW, find the scum don't be the scum (IF you are town that is)

[klopyrev]

It was all meant as a joke and I didn't really think about it. As for why I did it in both games... The posts were made approximately as the same time (I think)...

[ryan]

Alright Klopy, I'll give you a chance. I'd like a player analysis up to this point on what you think of our current game players

[curiouskarmadog]

Alright, heading to vacation and will not be back until the 22nd. I will have limited access at best. At any rate..

Unvote Lowell

(if I havent already) but

Fos Lowell

Rather not be away and have my vote out of my control in this thread. Will do an analysis when I get back..good luck

[Numenorean7]

Also, I feel we are being a bit rude towards him...

I suppose you're right, I am being sort of rude. Although you can't be nice all the time in this game, I'll back off. After all, he is getting better.
Still, I don't think 2 votes is excessive by any means.

[Lowell]

ryan:

1) I thought jester's vote was opportunistic. Hence I voted for him. He still may be right about Amelia and her posting habits, whatever. I just didn't like the vote, regardless of whether I've combed through the whole thread with a fine-toothed comb.

2) An Indy lynch?? That guy reeks of newbie town to me. Where did that come from?

[ryan]

Lowell: I didn't say that Indy was scum in my mind, I asked your opinion on him, because I feel you are lurking and not really paying attention to the game.

[Jester]

AmeliaLi is currently #1 on the lynch list for today but yet you only used one of her quotes to talk about, any reason?

As I've said, I think a lot of the stuff around her is a lot of sound and fury, signifying nothing. In fact, by beating her over the head with something she did 350 posts ago, over and over again, you're giving her a pass. Let's say she

is

scum. By following your current strategy, she doesn't have to say anything new or give you any clues as to who her scum-mates might be. All she has to do is keep defending herself over that single incident.

Here's a question for those voting for AmeliaLi and klopyrev. It seems fairly likely that we're going to have a deadline imposed on us before too much longer. Does everyone voting for these two people feel confident enough about their votes that they want to see them lynched on just the say-so of the current voters?

I still think klopyrev has been acting like newbie scum, but I seem to be the only one.

No, most of the votes on him seem to be based on this theory. I just disagree with the theory. I think newbie scum would act more like Indy than klopyrev. I think klopyrev's play style is too eratic to glean useful information from him regarding anything at all. Even if he's not the Jester, he's sure acting just like one. I'm learning way more about people reacting to klopyrev than I am about klopyrev.

Something of interest about pages 16 versus page 17. After my long posts at the bottom of page 15, just about everyone jumped into the game and wrote stuff, for most of a page, all day Monday. By Tuesday afternoon, though, we're back to ryan, klopyrev, Sir Tornado, and AmeliaLi writing just about everything. This has been a recurring pattern throughout this game so far.

This is where "saying literally nothing" pops people up on my radar. When you sit out the game except when you're directly nudged, poked, prodded, or voted on, that to me is a scum-tell. Is it enough to lynch someone just based on that? Of course not. But then when you combine literal nothing with posted nothings (Nano, for instance), that to me is enough to lynch someone.

Have no fear I am still here.

Indy, your post 388 is what's called pack-following, which means you say something like "I agree with everything XXX is saying, but he posted it before I could" right after two or three people identify player XXX as probable town. It's a major scum-tell. It's also your only post for the last three pages, and your only content for the entire game so far. See above.

And as I read this, I was sitting here thinking that you [ed: Nano] hanvn't possed questions to anyone else.

You know... that's an excellent point and I've noticed that tendency from other less-experienced scum players as well in other games. If Nano

does

turn out to be scum, I think this is going to be a 5th thing that will put people on my radar in future games.

Lowell: I think the rest of the town has had enough of the lurking and not participating.

Agreed. He's a third player I'm getting comfortable with the idea of lynching. His 395 strikes me as a sympathy ploy, rather than real life intruding. There's minor real life intrusions like my move, a vacation, or the like. Losing a job is a bit more major. Lowell, if you're really losing your job, it's time to take a step back from the Internet for a couple of weeks. Don't ask for sympathy. Ask for a replacement.

the question still stands (because I think only ryan answered it) What if they were lynched and it comes up they were town, what next?

I answered this question also, in my 373. I notice that you responded to nothing about you that I posted in my 373. You and Nano seem to have just decided that you're not going to be able to convince me you're not scum, so you're just going to ignore me and hope that nobody else is convinced.

And as I read that post over and over again. IT'S ALL NEWB QUESTIONS!

I pointed this out earlier.

Oh forget it, this guy isn't helping us find scum and he's annoying me all to heck.

I've found that votes on this justification are always (not sometimes, not almost always, but always) bad moves. If you don't find his input useful, just ignore him for the time being.

I feel that is quite improbable. I don't think mods usually put roles like Jesters in a normal game. In fact, I have never seen a Jester put into a normal game (in the games I have read here that is). The only games I have seen it is in Open Games (Jester Mafia).

If this is true, I did not know this. Didn't know there was a role limitation for mini games, in fact. I'd been assuming that every or near-every role could potentially be represented, not in every mini-game, but in mini-games collectively.

Is there somewhere I can read the role limits for a mini game?

Never mind. Found the wiki entry.

If he's not the actual Jester, he's sure acting like he gets his jollies from getting lynched. I see this type of personality on IRC channels I frequent: people who enter channels for no reason but to see if they can get kicked out, and what it takes to get kicked out.

1) I thought jester's vote was opportunistic. Hence I voted for him. He still may be right about Amelia and her posting habits, whatever. I just didn't like the vote, regardless of whether I've combed through the whole thread with a fine-toothed comb.

"The whole thread?" I placed that vote in my post 30, after the game started on post 15. The "whole thread" at that time was therefore 14 posts, all of them either random votes or discussion of Numenorean's nick.

And I'm caught up again. My current three most likely scum: Nano, curiouskarmadog, and Lowell. Indy's a distant 4th. No change in my most likely townies.

[MightyFireball]

Of your scum-list, I agree with two of your three candidates. I don't really think Curiouskarmadog is scum, for reasons already stated by me. However, I do agree that Nano is being particularly scummy, especially since he hasn't posted in the last few pages. Also, but to a lesser extent, I'm thinking Lowell might be scum. However, I don't feel too strongly about this and it's mostly a gut feeling.