Open 30 - Fire and Ice (Game Over!) - before 470

[LoudmouthLee]

You're jumpy..

Why shouldn't town be jumpy? If you kill one off, it'll most likely be four scum, five town remaining tomorrow morning, with no opportunity for cross-kills.

But a high opportunity for missed kills.

The scum will have all intents and purposes to handing over scum to the town. Since they cannot NK each other, the scum HAS NO CHOICE but to help us.

[Guardian]

A little less than 1.5 hours remain. 4 to lynch at deadline. Lynch the scumz.

Official Vote Count #8

MBL[4] (Crub, LML, Vendagoat, Glork)

xyzzy[3] (Mert, Sefer, MBL)
AutumnEvenings{AE}[2] (Stewie, CTD)
Crub[1] (mneme)
Sefer[1] (xyzzy)

Not Voting[1] (AutumnEvenings)

With 12 alive, It will take 7 to Lynch.

[Glork]

LmL's right. Note that the scum win condition is to have everyone else dead. If it comes down to 1 Fire vs 1 Ice, or 2 Fire vs 2 Ice, nobody will win.

Fire has to try to lynch Ice, and vice versa. And we, as a town, need to use this to our advantage.

[Glork]

Now. MBL, give me your thoughts. Even if you're part of one scum faction, you can help lead us to the other faction in future days. Mush!

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork, on page two, xyzzy's wagon was up to 5. And you actually think this:

I'd pick you. Asking me to answer a question like that with no information fells like a trap.

is a townish response to this:

Xyzzy, if you had to pick

one

person on your wagon as scum right now, who do you think you'd pick based on the little we've seen?

Please explain to me how that question could be a trap. One scenario would do, two is preferable. Again, you're blustering.

[AutumnEvenings]

ok, back.

I found it odd that she addressed Stewie's "reaction vote", yet completely ignored MBL's, and her Post 51, particularly the first paragraph, had a weird vibe to it.

Well, sorry, but I don't really know you (or most of the players) well enough to go into the reasons for my previous low activity. I feel bad about it, but I know it'll get better (my life, and therefore my ability to participate fully in this game), especially after July 25th. That's just all there is to it. Sorry for the vibes.

I didn't respond to MrBuddyLee's vote 'cause it was cast before Stewie placed the 3rd (total, 2nd currently on) vote. *shrugs* It looked like a random thing, as it was his first vote, and I don't freak out over a few votes. I asked Stewie to elaborate because he specifically unvoted to vote me, and I wondered if there was a reason.

Quite obviously, I was looking for a reaction myself, from Stewie and from AE. Stewie seems indifferent, and interestingly enough, so does AE herself, considering it was the 3rd vote on her.

Eh. It looked to me like you were voting me to get a reaction from Stewie. Didn't seem to have much to do with me at all. And it was the third but...first one was random, second was for a reaction, third was (from my point of view) done to test/goad/probe the 2nd voter. Nothing to be worried about, really, and nothing to defend against either. *shrugs* Really, you can't tell from my mafiascum history (this is the first game I've ever

began

as opposed to replaced into, and for some reason, I recieve slightly different reactions here than I'm used to), but I'm accustomed to having a handful of votes on my on Day One. Never been lynched on a Day One yet though.

Hmm. RE: the talk of buddying up. Am I missing something or would that just be a stupid idea all around? There

are

two teams, so even the mafia doesn't know all the mafia. Why risk linking themselves to someone?

I, also, have no idea how a wagon started on me. I think it's because no one understands my ludicrously awesome tactics.

Well, I voted you because of your name, and unvoted when it looked serious. But now I'm just confused by you. As in, I really can't follow a lot of your posts.

Actually, Unvote, Vote: Crub... there really isn't a heck of a lot to go on, but I think that CTD could serve to be useful one way or another, regardless of his alignment.

What the crap is that supposed to mean? "useful"? Sweetie, where I'm from, we

lynch

the scum. If you think he's evil, there's no reason I can see not to vote him.

However apart from acting strange, which I assume is normal for xyzzy, there was no real reason to be voting for him in the first place.

Actually, I think acting strange is a perfectly valid reason to vote someone, especially if the strangeness seems scummy. *shrugs*

Incidentally, I would find those who tack onto the bad attack more suspect than the bad attack itself.

You know...this looks much more like a scare tactic than anything. If you really believed that, why not wait a bit and see if anyone follows it, and

then

present an argument. That way you might actually catch scum, instead of scaring them off.

FoS: Glork

Coupled with the above, you're looking mighty suspicious.

Considering there can't be any crosskills, lynching scum is at an absolute premium.

Then...CTD should be useful regardless of his allignment how...?

vote: Glork

Perhaps you're strategically trying to push a lynch on me near deadline because you know it'd eliminate the strongest player in the game other than yourself. Sadly, it ain't gonna happen, sir. I suggest you go hunt for your mislynch elsewhere.

Gah. Can we not do the whole elitism thing? Especially as a defense? Thanks.

Also, while I'm talking to you, in your little list of people who need to contribute more 'cause at least one of them is scum, I notice you left off Mert, whom you called for a prod on a bit later. Any reason for ignoring

his

lack of posting? Or do you save that for people who are off camping? (ok, that last bit was a low blow but come on...you knew I was gone.)

I am the Doctor. Now unvote me, you fools, and go lynch actual scum.

Gah.

unvote: Glork

/ *sigh* You couldn't have done a little less with the "scummy so they don't nightkill me 'cause I'm lynchable" tactic? (That's given you the benefit of the doubt, dear.) I'll see if there's a counter, but none from me.

Ok, caught up. I need a minute to decide how to vote.

[Glork]

Yes. Forcing somebody under that much pressure for no reason to commit to calling somebody most likely to be scum doesn't make sense. I know I'd have a hard time picking which scums were on my wagon, and I think I'd be slightly uncomfortable with that kind of question. It's hard enough to pick scum out of a group anyway... I realize that Mert said "based on what little we've seen," but still... it doesn't sit well with me.

Anyway, I've already posed the scenario in which MertScum wants to force Xyzzy, already in an uncomfortable position, to take a stance against one of the players voting for him based entirely on that player's vote for him. Forcing OMGUS out of somebody else is a Bad Thing. That's pretty much the definition of a trap.




You're still avoiding my inquiries. Why?

[Vendagoat]

Right.. but by you posting "I'm stumped" and letting everyone KNOW that you're stumped is much different that actually being stumped.

Everyone in the town is stumped in some way.. otherwise there's no game. But the incessant need to REMIND us that you're stumped... bothers me.

I'd be for a possible vote switch to the Goat.

The first sentence is wifom

and I have said I am stumped one. The other time I took a RANDOM VOTE off to wait for more information.

And , yes my vote could still switch as well, seeing as new information is coming to light.

[Glork]

AE: The reason I could see CTD as being useful is because, as I just pointed out, Fire and Ice need to get each other

LYNCHED

in this game. CTD is a very capable scumhunter; the probability that he is scum buddying up to me is small enough that I am unwilling to lynch a player of his caliber based solely on what

could easily have been nothing more harmless than a joke.

Simply put, CTD is good, and I wasn't nearly confident enough to lynch him. I'd rather go after somebody whom I think is equally or more likely to be scum.

Regarding the following bad attacks thing: If you hadn't noticed, I was taking a shot at the people who were already implicitly going "I agree with LmL." LmL's chosen depiction of me was bad enough. People such as Crub and Vendagoat were disturbingly eager to sheep that reasoning.

[MrBuddyLee]

LmL
Sefer
Mert
CTD
Vendagoat

Glork, why are you asking me for opinions of so many people who haven't done jack shit? Trying to look diligent?

Considering everyone's hunting scum, the main way to tell scum from town would be to look for protection of a partner. Other than that, I suppose some people just naturally play more carelessly as scum because of the "anyone will do" lynch sentiment, but I don't think that's a huge tell to look for in this game due to the mechanic.

Mert's lying a little too low... he says he's methodical and granted we don't have much to work with today, but it looks like he's making the minimal effort to get by. His peg as xyzzy as today's best lynch is probably correct.

I didn't have a problem with Sefer pegging a Glork-xyzzy scumpair before you claimed doc. Your hyperventilation in defense of xyzzy is notable, particularly because ya:

Aversion to lynch-1 is for chumps and sissies.

and then ya

FOS: MBL "I'm going to put this guy at Lynch -1, but I don't have an intent to lynch. If he gets lynched, it's someone else's fault."

and ya:

lo and behold, we find Xyzzy at L-1 a mere three days before deadline.

with a pinch of:

FoS: MBL/Crub for the timing and manner in which they joined the Xyzzy-wagon.

So yeah, Sefer has undercontributed, but his read on you+xyzzy wasn't so bad.

CTD has way undercontributed and most of it is defensive. Strong possibility of scum there.

Goat-- a bit sally shying away from an L-2 vote but then again, with sissies like you guys running me up for my L-1 vote I suppose I can understand the hesitation. Makes a few decent points, doesn't really reek of scum.

GLork--uncounterclaimed doc who

[choice words about the deterioration of Glork's scumhunting skills redacted]

LML--I'll need some time on this. I'll also try to hit the other 5 players asap in case I get strung up you'll have that to go on tomorrow.

[AutumnEvenings]

Anyone want to lynch a goat?

Glork, sorry, but I think that's absolute crap. I've never played with CTD or anything, but if you think he's evil, you should try to get him lynched, plain and simple.

(And, as a side note, I really am starting to get annoyed at the mafiascum...umm...lack of tact? Good players can have off-games, and poor players can have absolutely correct suspicions. I'm frankly glad I have neither a reputation for being good nor for being a "village idiot" here. You guys as a whole need to start placing much more stock in current game actions. Not only will it improve your game, it'll improve the general ambiance of this site.)

Anyway. XYZ is still weird. MBL...also weird. I'm most suspicious of Vendagoat. Any chance of that happening?

[Glork]

Ugh, AE, you're missing my point entirely. I

DON'T

think he's scummy enough to lynch. I think that the cases against Crub, MBL, and even Vendagoat are better, and I think that the cases against LmL and Sefer are equally strong. There isn't enough compelling evidence to say "I think CTD is scum and I want him lynched."

[MrBuddyLee]

Crub's probably town. Just a guess from the tone.

[Glork]

GLork--uncounterclaimed doc who [choice words about the deterioration of Glork's scumhunting skills redacted]

Mmmmm, ad hom.


You also horribly mischaracterized my "Aversion to L-1" and my reason for FoSing you. In the first case, a player expressed desire to lynch but refrained because of fear of L-1. In the second case, a player expressed non-intent to lynch yet put the L-1 vote on and simultaneously attempted to shift responsibility to the rest of the town (which, as I mentioned earlier, I've only ever seen CEScum do before).


If you want to lynch somebody, you shouldn't fear putting them at L-1. That is the point of the first post.
If you don't want to lynch somebody, you shouldn't put them at L-1 while trying to mitigate the importance of your vote. That is the point of the second post.

Two completely different lessons here. Reading the

context

of those posts should make that apparent. Instead, you chose to mischaracterize my statements while throwing in ad-hom attacks of my gameplay... and all this on a claimed Doc who has gone uncountered by at least seven other players, by my last count.

Confirm Vote: MBL

[AutumnEvenings]

Then Glork, "regardless of his allignment" was a throw-away?

Ugh. Of MBL and XYZ, I'd rather lynch XYZ. I'll vote soon, if there's no rapid goat-shift to be had.

[MrBuddyLee]

mneme looks scuzzy. Glork, why didn't you ask me my opinion of him? I really shouldn't waste time asking you questions if you're the doc, but you just irk me this game, so w-e.

[AutumnEvenings]

Well, I'll take that as a no on the grilled goat.

vote: XYZ

. Who needs the end of the alphabet anyway?

(As I understand it, since MBL reached 4 first, he's still the lynch?)

[MrBuddyLee]

Glork, seriously, you suck.

[LoudmouthLee]

See? I kinda like grilled goat.

I'd really like Grilled Glork better, but....

Unvote, Vote: Vendagoat

[LoudmouthLee]

Ugh, AE, you're missing my point entirely. I

DON'T

think he's scummy enough to lynch. I think that the cases against Crub, MBL, and even Vendagoat are better, and I think that the cases against LmL and Sefer are equally strong. There isn't enough compelling evidence to say "I think CTD is scum and I want him lynched."

There's ANY case against me?

[Mert]

Incidentally, I *ALSO* thought that Mert's question could have been a trap. It was basically asking Xyzzy to OMGUS somebody, which does not sit well with me.

Read his posts in isolation up until I posted that - they're all jokey posts with no content that do nothing to progress the game. My reason for asking for his reaction was not so that he would OMGUS somebody (I didn't ask him to vote anyway...) but so that we could get

some

information from him that we could use.

I know this is conjecture and a dash of WIFOM, but the protown reaction to being ridiculously bandwagonned is to be a little defensive, point out and put pressure on those whose timing on the wagon seem a little off to probe for more information on those you find most suspicious on your wagon. In my experience, scum do one of two things when being massively wagonned: they either get overdefensive and start giving out tells or they try to keep as quiet as possible / avoid responding to being wagonned to avoid the above. I felt that Xyzzy was clearly in the latter category, so asked the question to try and draw more information.

I'd like to think you give me more credit than to try and trick somebody into OMGUSing any one of five people on a wagon and then following this up with "OMGUS vote? Die scum!"

Unless you count trying to get someone who's posting but with no content and flying under the radar / plain-sight lurking to contribute something useful to the game as a trap, then I'm sorry to inform you that there was no trap with that post.

[Glork]

V/LA

[LoudmouthLee]

See? I kinda like grilled goat.

I'd really like Grilled Glork better, but....

Unvote, Vote: Vendagoat

This vote can change back to MBL to assure a lynch today.

Where is everyone?

[MrBuddyLee]

I believe xyzzy has 4. You wouldn't need to switch to me to guarantee a lynch, But more importantly, you should nail scum, not rush for a convenient lynch.

[LoudmouthLee]

I believe xyzzy has 4. You wouldn't need to switch to me to guarantee a lynch, But more importantly, you should nail scum, not rush for a convenient lynch.

MBL, Your jumpiness is rather discerning, but I like a Goat lynch and (surprisingly) a Glork lynch BETTER than a vote on you.

I still feel that an Xyzzy lynch is illplaced.